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House elves: Their obligation and their relationships with wizards



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  #81  
Old May 21st, 2010, 11:56 pm
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Re: House-elf obligation

Would Harry want Kreacher to come with him? Or would he encourage him to stay in Hogwarts?


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  #82  
Old July 17th, 2010, 5:00 am
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Re: House Elves: Their Lives and Relationships With Wizards

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Originally Posted by Beatifically View Post
Wow, great point! It is quite remarkable that rich wizarding families actually feel the need to have the house-elves. The only thing I can think a house-elf would be needed for the most is cooking. Otherwise, cleaning is easy with spells such as scourgify. House-elves can't even babysit since they have to obey their masters. Maybe earlier on they were needed before spells such as scourgify were discovered, but the ones that are enslaved in 1990's? Why? Lucius asked for Dobby to polish his shoes . . . it's not that incredibly difficult to do without a house-elf. Some work is probably difficult, but I don't see the point in enslaving a house-elf to work fulltime.
Think of the families we know to have house elves; the Malfoys, Blacks, and Crouches. All of them are old and proud wizarding families with "slytherin tendancies" (not that there is anything wrong with Slytherin, mind). They believe themselves to be above such everyday chores and thus enslave house elves to do the humbling acts for them.

Other families do not suffer from such swelled heads, and see the nonsense in making someone else do what is so simple. The enslavement is all a perception by arrogant families who are too vain.


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Would Harry want Kreacher to come with him? Or would he encourage him to stay in Hogwarts?
I think Harry'd have Krecher stay. They have a bit more respect for each other, but I don't think Harry would want a house elf, anyway. Think of Hermione's reaction!


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Last edited by queenofsugar; July 17th, 2010 at 5:06 am.
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  #83  
Old December 13th, 2010, 11:18 pm
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House Elves power

Upon watching the newest Harry Potter film, and rereading some of the books I wondered why wizards never used house elves more. Dobby basically has more power than anyone, and if a master used his or her house elf properly they could be unstoppable. Any thoughts on this subject?


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  #84  
Old December 14th, 2010, 4:07 am
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Re: House Elves power

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Originally Posted by mgjam392 View Post
Upon watching the newest Harry Potter film, and rereading some of the books I wondered why wizards never used house elves more. Dobby basically has more power than anyone, and if a master used his or her house elf properly they could be unstoppable. Any thoughts on this subject?
I think it comes down to the Wizards have a huge blind spot when it comes to other types of magic other than Wizard's wand magic. Most ,not all ,but most Wizards never seem to consider, that other creatures can do magic as well as they can ,or even better than they can. Call it prejudice or vanity, I don't know which fits better .


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  #85  
Old December 14th, 2010, 9:38 am
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Re: House Elves: Their Lives and Relationships With Wizards

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Originally Posted by mgjam392 View Post
Upon watching the newest Harry Potter film, and rereading some of the books I wondered why wizards never used house elves more. Dobby basically has more power than anyone, and if a master used his or her house elf properly they could be unstoppable. Any thoughts on this subject?
I would want to know exactly what house elves could help you do that you think makes them such an unstoppable weapon.

The only thing I can think of is that, perhaps, they can apparate you in and out of places from which you could likely not apparate in and out.

I think, though, that this ability is probably limited in some way. With the facts we are given, it seems that Harry could have used Kreacher for the Gringotts raid especially. I think that there is probably a way to prevent house elves from apparating in and out of a building, though it is not ever mentioned. If no, of course, it represents a glaring hole in the plot.


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  #86  
Old March 25th, 2011, 10:45 pm
Darksmith  Undisclosed.gif Darksmith is offline
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What do you think Happened to Hokey?

Hockey, Hebzibah Smith's House Elf confessed her poisoning her Mistress cocoa cup by mistake.
  • What happened to her after that?
  • Was she jailed?
  • Did she serve Hebzibah's relatives?
Give me your thoughts!


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  #87  
Old March 27th, 2011, 10:43 pm
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Re: What do you think Happened to Hokey?

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Originally Posted by Darksmith View Post
Hockey, Hebzibah Smith's House Elf confessed her poisoning her Mistress cocoa cup by mistake.
  • What happened to her after that?
  • Was she jailed?
  • Did she serve Hebzibah's relatives?
Give me your thoughts!
Sadly, Hokey was framed for murdering Hepzibah and sent to Azkaban. Dumbledore was able to speak to her there and shows the memory to Harry in HBP.

I think that wizards believe the loyalty of their house elves is totally unquestionable, and so the idea of a disloyal or criminal elf would be a huge shock. I think Hokey would have been instantly dismissed from the family to be taken to Azkaban.


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  #88  
Old March 29th, 2011, 7:01 am
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Re: What do you think Happened to Hokey?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgjam392
Upon watching the newest Harry Potter film, and rereading some of the books I wondered why wizards never used house elves more. Dobby basically has more power than anyone, and if a master used his or her house elf properly they could be unstoppable. Any thoughts on this subject?
Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz
I would want to know exactly what house elves could help you do that you think makes them such an unstoppable weapon.

The only thing I can think of is that, perhaps, they can apparate you in and out of places from which you could likely not apparate in and out.
Dobby showed a great deal of extraordinary magical ability, as I recall. Yes, he Apparated in and out of places wizards could not, but Dobby also tampered and interfered with a wizard-enchanted Bludger, he sealed off Platform 9 and 3/4, he interfered with owl post, and he threw back Lucius down a flight of stairs.

I think an advantage of house-elf magic is that it can override, or it is relatively unaffected by, wizard magic. I think this would make them a dangerous weapon if, for instance, a wizard could not block a house-elf's magic with "Protego!" Of course, this is speculation that a wizard could not use his magic to counter house-elf magic, but it would be curious to see, for instance, a duel between house-elf and wizard. One assumes, though, that wizards have proven themselves more powerful and capable of dominating the house-elves (and, thus, wizard magic is more dominant than house-elf magic), due to the servitude under which house-elves are placed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sholeigh
Sadly, Hokey was framed for murdering Hepzibah and sent to Azkaban. Dumbledore was able to speak to her there and shows the memory to Harry in HBP.
I do not think we know that Hokey was sent to Azkaban. Dumbledore mentions (HBP, Ch. 20, Pages 438-439) that the Ministry convicted her of poisoning Hebzibah's cocoa on accident, but he says nothing about what happened to her. He merely states that "'as in the case of Morfin, by the time I traced her and managed toe xtract this memory, her life was almost over." "As in the case of Morfin," as I see it, does not necessarily mean that Hokey was also in a cell in Azkaban.

In fact, I would find it very strange if Hokey was sent to Azkaban - the wizard prison. I do not think wizards would send a sentient magical being other than a witch/wizard to the wizard prison. Where did Hokey go, then? I think she would have simply been put on the street, forced to live in exile like Dobby and Winky - the two house-elves we know of that were freed/dismissed. I can imagine Hokey living as a pauper in some sad alleyway, not seen or cared about by wizards.


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  #89  
Old March 30th, 2011, 7:47 am
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Re: What do you think Happened to Hokey?

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Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead View Post
I do not think we know that Hokey was sent to Azkaban. Dumbledore mentions (HBP, Ch. 20, Pages 438-439) that the Ministry convicted her of poisoning Hebzibah's cocoa on accident, but he says nothing about what happened to her. He merely states that "'as in the case of Morfin, by the time I traced her and managed toe xtract this memory, her life was almost over." "As in the case of Morfin," as I see it, does not necessarily mean that Hokey was also in a cell in Azkaban.

In fact, I would find it very strange if Hokey was sent to Azkaban - the wizard prison. I do not think wizards would send a sentient magical being other than a witch/wizard to the wizard prison. Where did Hokey go, then? I think she would have simply been put on the street, forced to live in exile like Dobby and Winky - the two house-elves we know of that were freed/dismissed. I can imagine Hokey living as a pauper in some sad alleyway, not seen or cared about by wizards.
Fair enough I must have just assumed she was also in Azkaban.


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  #90  
Old March 30th, 2011, 9:58 pm
Darksmith  Undisclosed.gif Darksmith is offline
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Re: House elves: Their obligation and their relationships with wizards

Call it stupid but I think that I know realise why Hermione seemed so distressed about House Elves.
Dumbledore mentioned their Species was bound to wizards by very old magic. Imagine how terrible their life must be, if they Have no master to serve they may eventually go through a nervous breakdown or a magically induced insanity,and eventually death.
I think house Elves love to serve wizards because having a master even unofficial (DobbyXHarry ) is as necessary to them as breathing or eating.
They live in the continuous anxiety to be Fired.
Hermione wasn't really outraged they weren't paid, she was shocked and saw it as Barbaric because it would be so in the non magical world.

A stupid little Question; How do House Elves do the Laundry?

Tell me what you think.


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  #91  
Old March 30th, 2011, 10:19 pm
Muggle_Magic  Male.gif Muggle_Magic is offline
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Re: House elves: Their obligation and their relationships with wizards

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Originally Posted by Darksmith View Post
A stupid little Question; How do House Elves do the Laundry?
House Elves can handle clothes that are handed to them for a purpose like doing laundry and not specifically as a dismissal. The laundry at Hogwarts or in any wizarding household doesn't do it by itself, obviously. So if clothes are left in the laundry basket, the Elves can handle them without being freed.

The way Dobby gets freed is a bit "unorthodox" because it's obvious Lucius never intended to free him, but Harry did, and Dobby took advantage of it.

In DH, Kreacher hangs up Harry's cloak when Harry comes home from the Ministry of Magic without "liberating" consequences, it's just part of his service.

At least that's how I see it.


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  #92  
Old March 30th, 2011, 10:50 pm
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Re: House elves: Their obligation and their relationships with wizards

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Originally Posted by Muggle_Magic View Post
House Elves can handle clothes that are handed to them for a purpose like doing laundry and not specifically as a dismissal. The laundry at Hogwarts or in any wizarding household doesn't do it by itself, obviously. So if clothes are left in the laundry basket, the Elves can handle them without being freed.

The way Dobby gets freed is a bit "unorthodox" because it's obvious Lucius never intended to free him, but Harry did, and Dobby took advantage of it.

In DH, Kreacher hangs up Harry's cloak when Harry comes home from the Ministry of Magic without "liberating" consequences, it's just part of his service.

At least that's how I see it.
I don't think that laundry is actually given to the house elves, nor do I think that laundry actually needs to be taken anywhere to be washed. I'd suspect that houselves have a way of doing the laundry magically, and they just go into the dorms when the students are asleep and clean the clothes.


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  #93  
Old March 31st, 2011, 12:23 am
Darksmith  Undisclosed.gif Darksmith is offline
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Re: House elves: Their obligation and their relationships with wizards

Yet the other House Elves feared to take care of the Gryffindor Tower. Mind you Hermione intended to free them.
Still that was baseless fear since Only Dumbledore, being the Headmaster could free the House Elves of Hogwarts.


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  #94  
Old March 31st, 2011, 1:14 am
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Re: House elves: Their obligation and their relationships with wizards

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Originally Posted by Darksmith View Post
Yet the other House Elves feared to take care of the Gryffindor Tower. Mind you Hermione intended to free them.
Still that was baseless fear since Only Dumbledore, being the Headmaster could free the House Elves of Hogwarts.
I'm pretty sure the houselves were simply insulted by the clothes, not afraid of them. I'll have to check, but I think that Dobby told the trio that they were too insulted to clean it.


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  #95  
Old April 4th, 2011, 6:59 pm
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Re: House elves: Their obligation and their relationships with wizards

I think with regards to clothes, a cloak may either be an exception to the rule or just a mistake because in GOF Winky hides under an invisibility cloak in the woods where they had the Quiddich world cup.............


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  #96  
Old April 4th, 2011, 8:21 pm
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Re: House elves: Their obligation and their relationships with wizards

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I think with regards to clothes, a cloak may either be an exception to the rule or just a mistake because in GOF Winky hides under an invisibility cloak in the woods where they had the Quiddich world cup.............
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Winky not pulling Barty Jr. under the invisibility cloak? Regardless, as long as she wasn't given the cloak, it isn't a mistake. She could still take the cloak without being free.


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  #97  
Old April 4th, 2011, 9:17 pm
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Re: House elves: Their obligation and their relationships with wizards

[quote]Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Winky not pulling Barty Jr. under the invisibility cloak? Regardless, as long as she wasn't given the cloak, it isn't a mistake. She could still take the cloak without being free.[/QUOTE

She was, however earlier posts in this discussion were debating whether or not house elfs could touch an item of clothing or if they would be freed. I was only pointing out that there have been more than one instance where a house elf has touched an item of clothing without it being a big deal. Here are some quotes from earlier posts...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggle_Magic
House Elves can handle clothes that are handed to them for a purpose like doing laundry and not specifically as a dismissal. The laundry at Hogwarts or in any wizarding household doesn't do it by itself, obviously. So if clothes are left in the laundry basket, the Elves can handle them without being freed.

The way Dobby gets freed is a bit "unorthodox" because it's obvious Lucius never intended to free him, but Harry did, and Dobby took advantage of it.

In DH, Kreacher hangs up Harry's cloak when Harry comes home from the Ministry of Magic without "liberating" consequences, it's just part of his service.

At least that's how I see it

Quote:
A stupid little Question; How do House Elves do the Laundry?

With that in mind my question is whether or not Kreacher handling Harry's robe without it resulting in freedom, and Winky coming into contact with an invisibility cloak was a mistake in the writing or whether there are exceptions to the rule.


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  #98  
Old April 4th, 2011, 10:24 pm
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Re: House elves: Their obligation and their relationships with wizards

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Originally Posted by X_Bumblebee_X View Post
With that in mind my question is whether or not Kreacher handling Harry's robe without it resulting in freedom, and Winky coming into contact with an invisibility cloak was a mistake in the writing or whether there are exceptions to the rule.
I would still say neither. The rule is that clothes can't be given to the elf. As long as the elf takes them without them being handed over, there is no contradiction.


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  #99  
Old April 6th, 2011, 9:48 pm
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Re: House elves: Their obligation and their relationships with wizards

I got it: Though unconventional, Dobby's freedom is indeed acquired and secured, for Lucius, threw away the Dirty Sock and Dobby took it, he was able to ignore a direct order . On the other hand kreacher was compelled by Harry's direct order to be silent thought his lips continued to move!


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  #100  
Old April 6th, 2011, 10:07 pm
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Re: House Elves: Their Lives and Relationships With Wizards

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Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
I think that there is probably a way to prevent house elves from apparating in and out of a building, though it is not ever mentioned. If no, of course, it represents a glaring hole in the plot.
Why is it a glaring hole in the plot?

It's probably just a simple charm to put somewhere to stop house elves from apparating. Can house elves apparate inside Hogwarts?
I doubt it because they could bring dark wizards with them...


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