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Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive



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  #81  
Old January 10th, 2010, 8:18 pm
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive!

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Originally Posted by Grymmditch View Post
Oh no, not a prequel! Aren't we sick already of everyone doing prequels?
I'd rather read a story about the founders of Hogwarts or something.
That would basically be a prequel.


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  #82  
Old January 10th, 2010, 11:14 pm
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive!

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Originally Posted by Jack5555 View Post
That would basically be a prequel.
Not really in the usual sense though - it wouldn't tie directly into the Harry Potter story or any of the currently living characters we've come to know, even a young Dumbledore. Prequels are generally more than just a story that goes back in time, they also tie into the original characters in some way, like in "Star Wars", you have a young Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, and Luke/Leia as babies; in "Ginger Snaps Back", you have the same two girls in their previous lives experiencing the beginning of their werewolf curse (the Ginger Snaps movies were pretty good, BTW, if you never seen them), or in "Underworld Evolution", it goes back farther than a generation, but, you still have some of the same characters, Victor and Lucius, etc..

I was thinking more like seeing how the four founders created Hogwarts, a thousand years ago, with no otherwise direct ties to Harry Potter or any of the characters therein. Though, I suppose, if we got to see the Chamber of Secrets being built, that'd be something of a tie-in.

EDIT: Just had a second thought- if Ravenclaw's daughter is in the book, then yeah, it would be a prequel, as her ghost is alive in the current books!
D'oh.
Anyway, the gist was, I'd prefer something way back in time, not a rehash of the last 50 years or so.


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  #83  
Old February 7th, 2010, 10:49 am
hans8chan  Male.gif hans8chan is offline
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

you know... i have a hunch... though i think it farfetch... but what IF when voldemort was still "dead" maybe he was thinking of a another way to revive himself..... I mean voldie is really smart right? So i doubt all those 11 years he was not doing SERIOUS thinking on a better way of immortality... jst mayb...


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  #84  
Old February 7th, 2010, 9:43 pm
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

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Originally Posted by masqeurain3 View Post
We remember it says that Voldemort's soul attached itself to the only living thing in the room (Baby Harry). Why couldn't that happen again? Why couldn't someone that witnessed Voldemort's death have become a Horcrux by mistake?
Not only did Voldemort have all those Horcruxes in place when he tried to kill Harry, but he had also rendered his own soul incredibly unstable in the process of making all those Horcruxes. It was because his soul was so unstable that a part of it split off and latched on to Harry. At the end of DH, the destruction of the Horcruxes has rendered his soul stable enough for him to be killed.

BTW, while killing somebody is a prerequisite for making a Horcrux, a Horcrux does not automatically happen just by killing someone. It happens by performing some sort of enchantment. I came across an interview awhile back in which Rowling said that the actual enchantment is way too gross to be included in the books. (She told her publisher what it was, and the publisher blanched). So what that means is that (if she's not pulling our leg), then the enchantment involved in making a Horcrux is grosser than anything Wormtail did in the graveyard in GoF.

So yes, Voldemort killed Snape, and yes, a bunch of other people died in a battle that he initiated. But there's no evidence that he actually had time to make any new Horcruxes between the time Snape died and the time Nagini was destroyed.

Voldemort is truly dead. And as other posters have stated, this time we actually have a dead body to prove it.


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  #85  
Old February 20th, 2010, 4:26 pm
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

No, I think he's gone forever.


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  #86  
Old December 27th, 2011, 4:49 pm
GrimeldaDursley  Female.gif GrimeldaDursley is offline
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

Aha! A "dead thread" is resurrected, when it appeared to be gone forever!

No, he's definitely gone. And we saw in King's Cross what his soul is like. Even if let's say a devoted Death Eater called him back, what we saw in King's Cross is what he'd get. Rather useless.


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  #87  
Old January 9th, 2012, 7:00 pm
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

You know, if anyone could figure out how to beat death and escape from limbo, it would be Voldemort. Perhaps Dumbledore as well, but we know he isn't interested in that. Voldemort is in an immortal state so it could happen after hundreds of years or maybe even thousands.


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  #88  
Old January 9th, 2012, 7:26 pm
Goddess_Clio  Female.gif Goddess_Clio is offline
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
Not only did Voldemort have all those Horcruxes in place when he tried to kill Harry, but he had also rendered his own soul incredibly unstable in the process of making all those Horcruxes. It was because his soul was so unstable that a part of it split off and latched on to Harry. At the end of DH, the destruction of the Horcruxes has rendered his soul stable enough for him to be killed.
This post seems to imply that as the trio destroyed horcruxes and those bits of soul returned to Voldemort and somehow caused that piece of his sould to stabilize. But in canon it's said that only remorse, true remorse could cause Voldemorts soul to come back together.

I disagree that his soul was becoming more stable with the killing of his horcruxes. If anything, I think it would have become even more unstable without the other bits floating around balancing it out. In my mind, Voldemort was killed by a combination of his soul being so fragile at the moment of his battle with Harry, him not being the EW's true master and sort of-kind of the rebounding curse. I think with his soul being only 1/8th of what he should have had he was so vulnerable to magic that even Harry's expelliarmus charm would have been enough to kill him. Tho, for the sake of keeping Harry's hands squeaky clean it's said the Voldemort's own rebounding curse is what killed him.

Quote:
I came across an interview awhile back in which Rowling said that the actual enchantment is way too gross to be included in the books. (She told her publisher what it was, and the publisher blanched).
ooo.

Curious.

Quote:
So yes, Voldemort killed Snape, and yes, a bunch of other people died in a battle that he initiated. But there's no evidence that he actually had time to make any new Horcruxes between the time Snape died and the time Nagini was destroyed.
I don't think he did. He was also surrounded by DEs so didn't have the privacy to do such a thing as create more horcruxes.

Quote:
Voldemort is truly dead. And as other posters have stated, this time we actually have a dead body to prove it.
Yup.


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  #89  
Old January 15th, 2012, 5:11 pm
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

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Originally Posted by masqeurain3 View Post
I just finished re-reading Deathly Hallows, and I believe I have found a loophole that allows the possibility of Voldemort being alive.

You might remember that Harry was the 7th, unintentional Horcrux, only because the rebounding Killing Curse shattered a piece of Voldemort's soul which attached to Harry. My theory is, that in the final battle, where Voldemort's killing curse rebounds upon him again, is it not possible that a shard of his remaining soul could've broken and attached itself to a random person in the room?

We remember it says that Voldemort's soul attached itself to the only living thing in the room (Baby Harry). Why couldn't that happen again? Why couldn't someone that witnessed Voldemort's death have become a Horcrux by mistake?

I think this could be a loophole made intentionally by JKR, incase she wants to write an 8th book, or it could even be a secret clue to indicate she has plans for an 8th. Remember she said "Never say never" in response to questions about an 8th book, and her representative or someone said he couldn't comment further.

So that is my theory. Voldemort's soul could've shattered again from his rebounding killing curse and attached to another person in the room, as it was pretty damaged and unstable.

What do you think?
Most horcruxes are not placed in living things but rather in more durable items. Why the soul fragment attached itself to Harry rather than to some other random item in the room may have to do with how intent Voldemort was on (killing) Harry. He must have already prepared to make a horcrux of the soul fragment(s) caused by killing the Potters. Why else would it have become any kind of a horcrux? Horcruxes are not created automatically every time some wizard commits murder. There has to be some kind of spell involved. Otherwise every wizard who was a murderer would be protected by horcruxes, which is clearly not the case.


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  #90  
Old January 15th, 2012, 5:19 pm
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

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Originally Posted by Quickquill View Post
Most horcruxes are not placed in living things but rather in more durable items. Why the soul fragment attached itself to Harry rather than to some other random item in the room may have to do with how intent Voldemort was on (killing) Harry. He must have already prepared to make a horcrux of the soul fragment(s) caused by killing the Potters. Why else would it have become any kind of a horcrux? Horcruxes are not created automatically every time some wizard commits murder. There has to be some kind of spell involved. Otherwise every wizard who was a murderer would be protected by horcruxes, which is clearly not the case.
When the curse backfired, Voldemort's couldn't pass on because of his existing horcruxes. That is why part of it latched on to Harry. In DH, Voldemort had no horcruxes remaining, so even if his rebounded curse blasted his soul into a million pieces, they would all pass on.


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  #91  
Old January 15th, 2012, 5:26 pm
Quickquill  Female.gif Quickquill is offline
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive!

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Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
I also have another theory ... a very, very far fetched one, please be warned, but where I feel Voldemort can resurrect not due to a horcrux, but because of the possession on Ginny Weasley. Tom Riddle possessed Ginny for long periods when she was very young, and there could be a possibility, where her soul was darkened by TR's possession and she eventually became a DL because the possession took over.

As I said very far fetched, but hey, in the world of magic, everything is possible.
Extremely unlikely. Remember, Harry killed the horcrux that operated the diary in the Chamber of Secrets. He didn't know it was a horcrux at the time, but he did neutralize the magic in the diary which was possessing Ginny. Ginny is in no danger of ever being possessed by Tom Riddle again. Even magic has rules.


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  #92  
Old January 15th, 2012, 5:41 pm
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickquill View Post
Most horcruxes are not placed in living things but rather in more durable items. Why the soul fragment attached itself to Harry rather than to some other random item in the room may have to do with how intent Voldemort was on (killing) Harry. He must have already prepared to make a horcrux of the soul fragment(s) caused by killing the Potters. Why else would it have become any kind of a horcrux? Horcruxes are not created automatically every time some wizard commits murder. There has to be some kind of spell involved. Otherwise every wizard who was a murderer would be protected by horcruxes, which is clearly not the case.
I just want to point out, the horcrux is the object, not what is in the object, and it is expressly unnatural for soul fragments to inhabit them. Souls want to be in living things


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  #93  
Old January 15th, 2012, 10:21 pm
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

The major difference between what happened at Godric's Hollow in 1981 and what happened at Hogwarts in 1997 is that Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow with the intention of making a Horcrux out of Harry's death (if Dumbledore's assumption is correct, anyway). This heavily implies that there has to be some preparations made before the murder as well as after it.


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  #94  
Old January 16th, 2012, 12:43 am
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

Do I dare bring up another point? Yes, I do.
What if Dumbledore was wrong, and an extra Horcrux was made before he tried to kill Harry? The only proof of the exact number he made isn't very reliable, as it was a hypothetical question to Slughorn. Riddle could have just picked a number at random...


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  #95  
Old January 16th, 2012, 1:35 am
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

If Voldemort were a Pragmatic Villain instead of a Generic Evil Dude, I would expect just such a misdirection. However, Slughorn is one of the least threatening people in Harry Potter, and isn't very likely to risk his neck by willingly giving up information that Voldemort probably forgot even exists (even though he did exactly that once Harry got him sufficiently drunk)


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  #96  
Old January 16th, 2012, 7:52 am
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

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Originally Posted by Basilisk37 View Post
Do I dare bring up another point? Yes, I do.
What if Dumbledore was wrong, and an extra Horcrux was made before he tried to kill Harry? The only proof of the exact number he made isn't very reliable, as it was a hypothetical question to Slughorn. Riddle could have just picked a number at random...
This would have been a good point except for that fact that we were privy to Voldemort's thoughts when he realized that his horcruxes were under threat. He doesn't think of any another horcrux.


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  #97  
Old January 17th, 2012, 4:07 am
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

if Jo were to write another book she would come up with something better than a lost horcrux theme. that would be so cheesey and forced that it would ruin the magic of the original series.


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  #98  
Old January 17th, 2012, 9:08 am
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Re: Loophole that means Voldemort could still be alive

I can see your point. But I think she wouldn't have written the epilogue the way she did if Voldemort was to return. An 8th book would be awesome though :')


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