Harry vs Buffy: A critical analysis.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by lorna

My point was, there are some characters who just don't have a good equivelants in the other series. IMO, Snape,Angel/ Angelus and really Sirius Black don't really have a "match"
But some of themes they represent certainly exsist in both series.

I've been wondering if Faith would be considered as a parallel to Snape. Both worked for the Big Bad at one point -Faith for the Mayor, Snape for Voldie. Both had somewhat of a meltdown as a result - Snape after Lily's death, Faith was devastated when she recovered from her coma - as was seen in Angel when she tried to get him to kill her in a fight.
Faith's bitterness towards Buffy at some points parallels Snape's bitterness towards Harry- Faith is bitter and jealous that Buffy has a competent watcher, a family, her Scooby gang, she is a representation of everything Faith doesn't have, just as Harry represents and is a reminder of everything Snape lost.


[quote]

Originally Posted by nmpsr_14

Harry Potter vs. Buffy Summer: They both begin their journeys unaware that they are meant to do something special. They both have a disregard of following the rules and often choose to do things differently. The have little parental presence throughout the series' but have a main character that acts as their mentor/guardian. Both have a core group of friends that stick with them no matter what, even though Harry/Buffy hesitate putting the people they love in danger. They both have a sense of adventure and danger and are presented with an evil at the end of each season/book that they have to face.

Not to mention that both die to protect loved ones. And, although the circumstances of their returns differ (Harry arguably being somewhere between life and death), neither truly wanted to return to the living - Buffy was "dragged out of paradise", while Harry felt he had to go back, to finish Voldemort.

Albus Dumbledore vs. Rupert Giles: Both considered mentors to the protagnist and somewhat a mysterious character that much is not known about throughout most of the series.

Plus, Buffy felt betrayed by Giles after the tests when she turned 18, just as Harry felt betrayed when Dumbledore ignored him in OotP.
Giles is willing to do unpleasant things for the "greater good" too- he wanted to kill Dawn to prevent Glory using her as the Key and killed Ben so Glory couldn't return.
Willow even tells Giles he "went all Dumbledore" on her at the start of series 7. I crack up when I hear that one.


Snyder = Umbridge, maybe.

[merry18]

Originally Posted by FurryDice

Snyder = Umbridge, maybe.

Yeah, they are pretty similar in that most of the students hate them. They both have very dubious ways to get what they want: Umbridge imposes all those decrees to get her way, and Snyder makes people "volunteer" to do stuff.

The main difference I see between thme is that Snyder is WAY funnier than Umbridge and thus doesn't make me want to stab my book (er, TV) in a heated rage. With Umbridge you want to just kill her, with Snyder you think "what a jerk!" while laughing. Or at least I do...

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by merry18

Yeah, they are pretty similar in that most of the students hate them. They both have very dubious ways to get what they want: Umbridge imposes all those decrees to get her way, and Snyder makes people "volunteer" to do stuff.

The main difference I see between thme is that Snyder is WAY funnier than Umbridge and thus doesn't make me want to stab my book (er, TV) in a heated rage. With Umbridge you want to just kill her, with Snyder you think "what a jerk!" while laughing. Or at least I do...

Yeah, Snyder doesn't inspire loathing the way Umbridge does. On the other hand, both intensely dislike the main character in the series and try to place obstacles in their paths.

Both are also intent on denying what is right in front of their faces- Umbridge denying Voldemort's return, Snyder living in denial about all the weird goings-on at Sunnydale High - even when the giant Mayor/Snake/Demon is right in front of him, he's going on about how this is not in the schedule, how there's no order to the events (or something to that effect, it's a while since I've seen Season 3)- even after the mass escape from Azkaban, Umbridge is putting on that smile and eating happily in the Hall.

[missbrunettgirl]

I love Buffy it's my favorie show of all time! You guys have made some great connections so I'll try to do a few of my own.
Okay so Andrew is kind of like Peter Pettigrew in the way that he hero worshiped the Marauders like Andrew did with Warren and they were both power seekers.
The Master is kind of like Voldomort because the masters first attempt of taking over the world failed and he was trapped underground for hundreds of years and there was a prophcy (sp?) that the master would kill Buffy to escape and one for Voldomort that he had to kill Harry to live.
Someone said Drucilla a lot like Bellatrix and I see that parallel but I also see a parallel between Glory and Bellatrix as both being these badys who are really powerful and who are big obstacals to Buffy and Harry and they are both unstable.
And one more parallel is Tara and Neville. At first both are kind of inconsequencal and need saving but as time goes by Tara stands up for Willow to Anya and Xander during 'As you were' and proves to be a pretty strong character just like Neville does in book seven.

Thats all I have so far even though I could go on and on about Harry and Buffy for day!

[OkeyDokey]

I think the closest parallel to Voldemort is Glory. I know she was only around for one season but:
1. Main character killing them, the only way Glory would die is if Buffy killed her and that in turn, killed Buffy. Likewise, the only way for Voldemort to die is if Harry killed him, and that "killed" Harry.
2. Glory and V are both very arrogant and do not compare themselves to ANYONE.
3. Not one of them grew attached to anyone. Anyone who was in their lives was only used, not befriended, because they didn't have friends.
4. Both of them have said something along the lines of "but I'm me" as if it's the number one, best thing to be.

It's too bad Glory wasn't around longer, she was my favorite villain in the series. In terms of grandeur in the series, clearly Voldemort trumps Glory but you can't ignore those similarities.

[Prince659]

Originally Posted by OkeyDokey

I think the closest parallel to Voldemort is Glory. I know she was only around for one season but:
1. Main character killing them, the only way Glory would die is if Buffy killed her and that in turn, killed Buffy. Likewise, the only way for Voldemort to die is if Harry killed him, and that "killed" Harry.
2. Glory and V are both very arrogant and do not compare themselves to ANYONE.
3. Not one of them grew attached to anyone. Anyone who was in their lives was only used, not befriended, because they didn't have friends.
4. Both of them have said something along the lines of "but I'm me" as if it's the number one, best thing to be.

It's too bad Glory wasn't around longer, she was my favorite villain in the series. In terms of grandeur in the series, clearly Voldemort trumps Glory but you can't ignore those similarities.

I think Voldy is a mixture of Glory, the Mayor, and the Master. Glory becasue of above; the Mayor because of the whole selling his soul thing, which I think can be compared to the Horcruxes; and the Master because he's sort of like Volemort when he had no physical form. He was trying to get his body back and the master was trying to gain strength so he could leave his...cave.

By the way, this is an awesome thread. I looove Buffy. It's one of my favorite shows ever.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by Prince659

I think Voldy is a mixture of Glory, the Mayor, and the Master. Glory becasue of above; the Mayor because of the whole selling his soul thing, which I think can be compared to the Horcruxes; and the Master because he's sort of like Volemort when he had no physical form. He was trying to get his body back and the master was trying to gain strength so he could leave his...cave.

By the way, this is an awesome thread. I looove Buffy. It's one of my favorite shows ever.

I agree. I thought of the Mayor first because he had essentially made himself immortal by selling his soul. The Master is similar because he was trying to escape his prison to be part of the mortal world again - and the whole thing with his appearance being what it was because he was more demon than human by that point in his life. Glory's personality was very similar - though she was more concerned with looking beautiful than Voldemort was.

Glory was also trapped by sharing the form of a mortal and she could only "come out" for a certain length of time. The only way to kill her, was to kill him.

[greycat]

Good thread! Sadly I am coming to this late since I just joined here. I'm happy to talk about the similarities between my favorite book series and my favorite TV series!

I agree with a lot of the parallels that have been drawn so far. I think there is also a relationship between the sword of Godric Gryffindor and the scythe from Buffy season 7. They are both powerful weapons with mystical qualities that go beyond their basic usefulness as weapons. In each case, these weapons are meant for use by a particular group of people who demonstrate qualities which make them fit to wield the weapons. The sword will appear for Gryffindors who embody the true spirit of bravery and who have real need of it. The scythe is a weapon with power that can only be felt and used by slayers. Each of the weapons represents the essence of the group that it is associated with. The scythe contains the actual essence of the power of the slayer(s), but I think it could be argued that the sword also contains some of the essence of Gryffindor's bravery. That's why it will appear when a true Gryffindor (read: brave ) needs it - there's a mystical connection to Godric Gryffindor and the qualities he valued that is passed along through the sword.

[skistar123]

Giles leaves in the 6th season at a crucial point - she's just come back from heaven, she's looking after her younger sister, Willow's becoming dangerously magic etc, until he comes back and puts it right. Dumbledore dies in the 6th book, leaving Harry on his own with the huge task of the horcruxes, until he sorts out (through his portrait) with Snape how to help them.

[PhoebeCaulfield]

Cordelia Chase/James Potter Initially, both Cordelia and James grew up in a privileged lifestyle, were extremely popular, cruel to unpopular students, were very clever and did well in exams, but only used their brains to service themselves.

However, they both grow up a great deal throughout their later teen years. Cordelia first becomes a better person through her relationship with Xander, and it's implied that James became a better person once he fell in love with and start dating Lily. Plus, when Cordelia learns about the Hellmouth, she is willing to fight against it, and James never stood for Voldemort gaining power.

Cordelia and James grow up further when they are faced with worse situations. When Cordelia loses all her money, has to move to LA, works for Angel and starts fighting Wolfram And Hart, she becomes much more mature and less snobby, and when James joins the Order Of The Phoenix and becomes a heroic fighter, he becomes and even better person.

Later, they themselves both become important fighters against evil, as opposed to just being part of a group that fights evil. Cordelia gains dangerous visions from TPTB, and James is the father and protector of Harry, who Voldemort is bent on killing. When they are faced with these dire situations, they do not back down and bare little resemblance to the spoiled teenagers they were at 16, instead continuing to fight despite fate being against them and become heroes in themselves; Cordelia accepts the visions despite being shown the knowledge that they will eventually kill her, and being offered an easier life as a successful actress, and James spends the rest of his life protecting Harry, despite knowing that Voldemort will stop at nothing to kill him and it could be only a matter of time before Voldemort finds Harry.

In short, they go from spoilt brats into heroes brave enough to die for what they care about.

Lastly, they both die at a tragically young age, in the process of fighting evil. Cordelia dies at 23, after spending months in a coma and coming back to say goodbye to Angel, and James dies at 21, in the bravest act of his life; protecting his wife and child.

[SortingHatfan]

Wow, I"m a little late on this but wow. Amazing analysis!

[Syraiel]

I think this thread has a lot more potential, besides the excellent points that have already been made. And since there seem to be a few Buffy fans present, let's give it another go shall we?

Just a few minor things that come to mind when reading through the previous posts:

Originally Posted by Moriath

On the other hand, it is evident that Whedon was more merciful to his characters than JKR: most of the good guys survived.

That or, being killed by Joss meant *more* screen time. :3
Nah, I don’t think Joss was merciful... whenever his characters would come close to a resemblance of happiness something would happen. Not always death, but he did a whole lot of gruesome things to them all together, always making sure they were good and miserable ;-) “Oh no! our characters are happy, Something must be done about this madness!”
And he killed off a good few along the way in Buffy as well as in the Spinoff Angel (Buffy(twice), Joyce, Angel, Tara, Anya and more recently

Spoiler: show

Giles

and also on Angel:

Spoiler: show

Cordy and Wesley

.It wasn’t his fault that in the Buffyverse being dead isn’t always permanent!

Originally Posted by FurryDice

I've been wondering if Faith would be considered as a parallel to Snape. Both worked for the Big Bad at one point -Faith for the Mayor, Snape for Voldie. Both had somewhat of a meltdown as a result - Snape after Lily's death, Faith was devastated when she recovered from her coma - as was seen in Angel when she tried to get him to kill her in a fight.
Faith's bitterness towards Buffy at some points parallels Snape's bitterness towards Harry- Faith is bitter and jealous that Buffy has a competent watcher, a family, her Scooby gang, she is a representation of everything Faith doesn't have, just as Harry represents and is a reminder of everything Snape lost.

You know I also considered the Faith/Snape parallels when reading up on this thread and I think there's definitely something there. However, I do think it’s mostly both character’s story arcs rather than similar character that define the parallel. The only thing they seem to share in character is that they are both prone to nurture bitterness, rooted in envy for what other people have.

I totally agree on the lured to the dark, give in to the darkness of their power, working for evil comment. Though Faith has a stint of rogue-slayer going on (Want. Take. Have.), before falling in with the mayor. Whereas I don't see Snape involved in any rogue action until he decides to try to protect Lily and turn to Dumbledore.
They are both “rebels”, if you will, but they defy their authority at different times in their lives.
I also have trouble to categorize Snape as truly rebellious, since he’s pretty much serving either Voldemort as a DE or Dumbledore as a double agent for most of his adult life. Whereas Faith will never truly abandon her rebellious streak. She does things her way and though she learns to take advice (Angel and eventually even Giles), she’ll always be defiant.

To add to the parallel pointed out by FurryDice; both characters also seem to share an abusive background, though it translates differently (Faith – abusive family vs. Snape – bullied) and both characters seem to start from a character concept where the author wants to explore a character who makes/ has made wrong choices, then works toward redemption.

Notable differences, besides the fact that Faith is as similar to Snape as an all consuming fire is to a creeping, calculating, mother of frostfest, is the crazy factor... Faith seriously has her own little one flew over the cuckoo’s nest episode which peaks when she awakens from her coma puts the switcharoo whammy on Buffy and then flees off to LA to have some seriously deranged torture fun with Wesley. Snape on the other hand always, whether good or bad, comes of as Ye-of-the-level-head-Snape, with the only exception being his 'hate' towards Harry.
Bottom line, Faith is emotional, Snape is ..not (anymore).

Thus endeth the rant on Faith/Snape!

As for other rather appealing parallels between both works. How about that foreshadowing eh? I’ve rarely come across two creators who put that much planning into their work and drop such well hidden, easily looked/read over hints.

Main differences in approach? There hasn’t been too much discussion on this so far...
Any takers?

I’ll get started, personally one of the big differences is that even though both JK Rowling and Joss Whedon both meticulously seem to have planned certain aspects of their works. Harry potter seems much more....um, linear (?), for want of a better word.

With Harry, even though there are plot twists, shocking revelations and Rowling certainly always kept you guessing right up until the end, you always feel there’s a huge climax everything is working toward. In each separate standalone book, but also in the seven volumes put together, you always kind of knew what to expect... even though you never really did for certain, there were always things to fall back on. Such as, Hogwarts, Classes, friendships, Some kind of revelation Mid-schoolyear, a big confrontation with some form of Voldy at the end of the schoolyear.

Whereas Joss Whedon has the ability to completely uproot whatever he was working with beforehand and create an entirely new angle, thereby throwing the fans out into the deep and leaving them in a haze of “I don’t know what just happened, but it was awesome!”. What’s more, he gets away with it!
For instance, I know Dawn gets a lot of hate, but they made it work and it was very original, especially the way they kept you guessing on “Is she evil?” at first, which would be a plausible explanation in the Buffyverse... but noooo, she’s a key of mystical energy magicked into some human form by using summers blood to ensure the slayer would protect it even when she is sooooooo whiny...
Another really good example comes to mind with the episode Normal Again in season 6, where you are meant to question whether Buffy really is the slayer, or whether she is just a poor girl, locked in an institution trapped into a world created by her own imagination. The idea behind this episode is quite good, but the way they finish is what makes it Buffy. The viewer is never put at ease by a final shot of Buffy and her friends in Sunnydale where all is well. Though that particular shot is kind of there (everything in Sunny-D gets resolved) we are instead left in the final moments of the episode with the image of a mental ward cell, where a doctor shines a light into the eyes of a completely catatonic Buffy commenting: “We lost her”. That is what makes that episode typically Whedon. (even though I think the writer of the episode is the one who came up with that particular idea). With Buffy, (or anything Joss so far really) you gradually learn, there’s nothing to fall back on.

I hope this does not come across as me saying that in this non-linearity Buffy is better then Harry Potter. (I would never claim such nonsense!) It’s just a difference I wanted to point out, just looking to get the ball rolling again in the discussion.

Mind you we are comparing two different types of medium here, not to mention works aimed at two very totally different target ‘audiences’, so one’s bound to have freedoms the other one hasn’t got. I just think it would be nice to explore them a bit with fellow HP/Buffy fans...

To end this long rant on a lighter note (if you have gotten to the end of it, I salute you!), anyone seen the wink to HP in the Buffy Season 8 one shot on Willow’s journey? I loved it!

(Small edit to rephrase some statement I made about Snape)

[Amyrat151]

Why I got into HP in the first place is because I recognized that Buffy and Harry were so similar it's like Whedon and JK share a brain cell or two. It's also how I got my sister into HP, she saw the series as being a bit too kiddie for her to enjoy at first. Harry has does the whole "I have to carry the weight of the world thing," shows his disdain for authority figures openly, fights the fight not because he "has" to, dies for his cause, and has an superiority complex and an inferiority complex about it just like Buffy.