Little Questions Answered v.20

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

And my point was Hogwarts and Hogsmeade are in the same magical area so it's possible to walk between the two locations.

I'm not sure that would be true. Hogsmeade is a separate village, not connected to Hogwarts, nor on Hogwarts property. I don't know that there can be a "magical area". Spells can be cast to hide entryways or building fronts, or quidditch stadiums, but that doesn't make it a "magical area". For example, the Ministry is located in London, which is clearly not a magical area.

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

Yes, 'as good as a muggle' but not a Muggle IMO.

I suppose we just disagree here, because in my view, non-magic is non-magic, whether you call it muggle (non-magic), or squib (non-magic even though at least 1 parent had magic). You still can't do anything other than what a muggle could do.

[merrymarge]

o.k., so the students could walk to Hogsmeade from Hogwarts, but what about everyone else? How do they get to Hogsmeade except by magical transportation? I believe the Knight Bus might stop there, and of course Floo Powder, etc. As for any type of magical protection, It would depend on how large the village is and if there is anything nearby that Muggles might want to investigate.

[willfitz]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

o.k., so the students could walk to Hogsmeade from Hogwarts, but what about everyone else? How do they get to Hogsmeade except by magical transportation? I believe the Knight Bus might stop there, and of course Floo Powder, etc. As for any type of magical protection, It would depend on how large the village is and if there is anything nearby that Muggles might want to investigate.

Because the village is entirely magically populated, and magic is openly performed and showcased in the village, I would say that it is likely that there are magical protections to prevent Muggles from ever finding the village. I doubt that there would be any Muggle villages in close proximity to the school.

[canismajoris]

Originally Posted by willfitz

Because the village is entirely magically populated, and magic is openly performed and showcased in the village, I would say that it is likely that there are magical protections to prevent Muggles from ever finding the village. I doubt that there would be any Muggle villages in close proximity to the school.

I agree, we just have to assume that any nearby Muggles have no economic incentive to venture near Hogsmeade, or that there are magical protections around it.

[Goddess_Clio]

With all the talk about Hogmeasde and Hogwarts it got me wondering this:

Hogwarts' location is supposed to be secret but isn't it stated somewhere (like in Hogwarts, A History) that it is located near Hogsmeade village? Couldn't a wizard wanting to find Hogwarts just start in Hogsmeade and canvas the surrounding area? The enchantments on the castle and grounds only keep muggles away, not necessarily unwanted wizards.

[willfitz]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

With all the talk about Hogmeasde and Hogwarts it got me wondering this:

Hogwarts' location is supposed to be secret but isn't it stated somewhere (like in Hogwarts, A History) that it is located near Hogsmeade village? Couldn't a wizard wanting to find Hogwarts just start in Hogsmeade and canvas the surrounding area? The enchantments on the castle and grounds only keep muggles away, not necessarily unwanted wizards.

Well, I think that it is implied that Hogsmeade is right next to Hogwarts not only because both names start with 'Hogs,' but also because the students walk to it on their Hogsmeade days (and there are secret passages between the two locations like the one-eyed witch).

However, that is not to say that the two locations flow into one another. In order to be taken into Hogwarts in HBP after missing the main party, the gates to the campus grounds need to be opened by Snape. Combining that with what we see in the Battle of Hogwarts and how difficult it was for Harry to find a way into Hogwarts in the first place, I think it is clear that Hogwarts has its own boundaries.

Muggles are not likely to find Hogsmeade, I don't think, let alone Hogwarts, and Hogwarts seems to have extensive security measures for keeping out wizards when they don't want them coming in.

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by willfitz

Muggles are not likely to find Hogsmeade, I don't think, let alone Hogwarts, and Hogwarts seems to have extensive security measures for keeping out wizards when they don't want them coming in.

Of course, there were always the anti-apparation wards, but before GoF apparently one could fly in; i.e., Charlie coming to pickup Norbert[a] in PS/SS. After Voldemort's restoration it appears anti-flying protections were instituted and making it necessary for Draco to fix the Vanishing Cabinet.

[merrymarge]

I thought Draco fixed the Vanishing Cabinet because it was easiest to bring in the D.E.'s into Hogwarts. I wasn't sure if Draco knew about the passage from Honeydukes.

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

I thought Draco fixed the Vanishing Cabinet because it was easiest to bring in the D.E.'s into Hogwarts. I wasn't sure if Draco knew about the passage from Honeydukes.

No, he didn't know about the secret tunnel, but I think it would have been easier for the DEs to fly in, which they couldn't, hence the Vanishing Cabinet.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by willfitz

However, that is not to say that the two locations flow into one another. In order to be taken into Hogwarts in HBP after missing the main party, the gates to the campus grounds need to be opened by Snape. Combining that with what we see in the Battle of Hogwarts and how difficult it was for Harry to find a way into Hogwarts in the first place, I think it is clear that Hogwarts has its own boundaries.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought Hogwarts and Hogsmeade flowed into each other. In GOF Hermione states that (and I'm paraphrasing) the locations of the famous magical schools has always been closely guarded. This is possibly for security reasons - a rival school might have tried to commit acts of terrorism against another school and garner a larger student body because of it, who knows.

My point in asking this was that if the locations of magical schools are supposedly so closely guarded, why is it so commonly known and even written about that Hogsmeade is nearby or within walking distant of one of these magical schools whose location is supposed to be a big secret? If you go to Eastern Europe and start simply asking around would you find a Durmsville within walking distance of Durmstrang? Or a Beauxville down the road from Beauxbaton in France?

[willfitz]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

I didn't mean to imply that I thought Hogwarts and Hogsmeade flowed into each other. In GOF Hermione states that (and I'm paraphrasing) the locations of the famous magical schools has always been closely guarded. This is possibly for security reasons - a rival school might have tried to commit acts of terrorism against another school and garner a larger student body because of it, who knows.

My point in asking this was that if the locations of magical schools are supposedly so closely guarded, why is it so commonly known and even written about that Hogsmeade is nearby or within walking distant of one of these magical schools whose location is supposed to be a big secret? If you go to Eastern Europe and start simply asking around would you find a Durmsville within walking distance of Durmstrang? Or a Beauxville down the road from Beauxbaton in France?

Well, I don't think that Hogwarts is ever mentioned as having the same sort of secrecy surrounding it as are the other two schools. Durmstrang's location is certainly kept from other wizards, and I think that Beauxbaton may have also had the same thing, but not Hogwarts. I think it is just a different culture with Hogwarts.

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

Of course, there were always the anti-apparation wards, but before GoF apparently one could fly in; i.e., Charlie coming to pickup Norbert[a] in PS/SS. After Voldemort's restoration it appears anti-flying protections were instituted and making it necessary for Draco to fix the Vanishing Cabinet.

Indeed, it seems as though the level of security depends on the presence of any immediate threat, and I think that is similar to the real world.

[Goddess_Clio]

So... The Death Eaters' Dark Marks.

In GOF they were described as growing darker or more prominent as Voldemort neared returning to power. During the time he was Vapormort did they completely vanish? Did they just look very very faded like really old tattoos that have blurred or lightened?

And how could Voldemort regenerate himself without using up one of his horcruxes? I kind of thought that's what they were for; like a cat with nine lives, if he used one up then there are only eight left, then seven, then six unitl you're on your last life. I guess when I think of the horcruxes, I kind of feel like they can't survive outside a body unless the horcrux-making curse had been performed (otherwise no one would ever really die). In this case, when Voldemort goes to kill Harry he had performed the curse to make a horcrux with his death and then his curse rebounded - so he simultaneously made a horcrux that latched on to Harry while the remaining piece of soul still in his body was destroyed by the backfiring Avada Kedavra curse. Does that makes sense?? So after that night there would have been seven horcruxes, one of which would have to have been 'used up' to regenerate him later.

[TreacleTartlet]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

And how could Voldemort regenerate himself without using up one of his horcruxes? I kind of thought that's what they were for; like a cat with nine lives, if he used one up then there are only eight left, then seven, then six unitl you're on your last life. I guess when I think of the horcruxes, I kind of feel like they can't survive outside a body unless the horcrux-making curse had been performed (otherwise no one would ever really die). In this case, when Voldemort goes to kill Harry he had performed the curse to make a horcrux with his death and then his curse rebounded - so he simultaneously made a horcrux that latched on to Harry while the remaining piece of soul still in his body was destroyed by the backfiring Avada Kedavra curse. Does that makes sense?? So after that night there would have been seven horcruxes, one of which would have to have been 'used up' to regenerate him later.

A Horcrux acts like a tether, tethering the main soul to earth and stopping it from passing on. So Voldemort didn't use up any of his Horcruxes to regenerate as his soul was already earth bound as Vapourmort and just needed a body.

The idea of the external soul is taken from folk tales. In the Russian tale Koschei the Deathless,(or the Immortal) places his soul inside a needle in an egg, inside a duck, inside a hare, inside an iron chest. This story is the basis of the ballet "The Firebird" in which the magician's soul is hidden inside an enormous egg. There are many other such stories in folk lore.

[MinervasCat]

In GOF they were described as growing darker or more prominent as Voldemort neared returning to power. During the time he was Vapormort did they completely vanish? Did they just look very very faded like really old tattoos that have blurred or lightened?

Funny, I was just going to ask the same question.

Wonder if they went away completely one he was dead?

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by TreacleTartlet

A Horcrux acts like a tether, tethering the main soul to earth and stopping it from passing on. So Voldemort didn't use up any of his Horcruxes to regenerate as his soul was already earth bound as Vapourmort and just needed a body.

The idea of the external soul is taken from folk tales. In the Russian tale Koschei the Deathless,(or the Immortal) places his soul inside a needle in an egg, inside a duck, inside a hare, inside an iron chest. This story is the basis of the ballet "The Firebird" in which the magician's soul is hidden inside an enormous egg. There are many other such stories in folk lore.

Thanks for the attempt but this didn't explain anything to me... It still seems to me that if fully human Voldemort in possession of a piece of his soul were killed then that soul piece would also be killed and he wouldn't be able to regenerate without first seeking out another soul piece to implant into his new body.

Originally Posted by MinervasCat

Funny, I was just going to ask the same question.

Wonder if they went away completely one he was dead?

Ha! I wonder if you got the idea from the same thread? I was perusing the Legilimency threads, I think, and they were talking about Dark Marks.

[willfitz]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

Thanks for the attempt but this didn't explain anything to me... It still seems to me that if fully human Voldemort in possession of a piece of his soul were killed then that soul piece would also be killed and he wouldn't be able to regenerate without first seeking out another soul piece to implant into his new body.

Even in normal circumstances, a body being killed would not cause the soul residing inside to be destroyed, as Hermione specifically states in DH:

The Ghoul in Pajamas "But even if we wreck the thing it lives in," said Ron, "why can't the bit of soul in it just go and live in something else?" "Because a Horcrux is the complete opposite of a human being." Seeing that Harry and Ron looked thoroughly confused, Hermione hurried on, "Look, if I picked up a sword right now, Ron, and ran you through with it, I wouldn't damage your soul at all." "Which would be a real comfort to me, I'm sure," said Ron. Harry laughed. "It should be, actually! But my point is that whatever happens to your body, your soul will survive, untouched," said Hermione.

Voldemort's soul never was destroyed in any way (except for the parts placed in Horcruxes). The idea behind a Horcrux is not to replace the soul when it is 'killed,' but rather to prevent it from being able to 'move on.' As such, Voldemort did not go into limbo or pass on to the next dimension or whatever when he was killed the first time; rather, his Horcruxes tethered him to the real world, where he survived as 'less than the meanest shadow,' until his follower found him and restored him to his glory.

The next part of that quotation, by the way, goes on to explain that the piece of soul held in a Horcrux, on the other hand, is destroyed when it's container is (hence being the complete opposite, as Hermione puts it).

[TreacleTartlet]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

Thanks for the attempt but this didn't explain anything to me...

Sorry my explanation wasn't clear enough. As Willfitz said Voldemort's soul wasn't destroyed at Godric's Hollow. Only his body was destroyed. The part of his soul that resided in his body then became the thing that went to Albania and possessed Quirrell.Voldemort explains to his DE's in the graveyard in GoF.

"I was ripped from my body, I was less than spirit, less than the meanest ghost... but I was still alive."

The reason his soul didn't pass on to the "otherworld" was because he had his Horcruxes, which acted like anchors keeping the rest of his soul earthbound. A Horcrux stops the rest of your soul from passing on.

I hope that makes more sense.

It still seems to me that if fully human Voldemort in possession of a piece of his soul were killed then that soul piece would also be killed and he wouldn't be able to regenerate without first seeking out another soul piece to implant into his new body.

But if Voldemort's main soul, the part that resided in his body was killed at Godric's Hollow; then there would be no part of him left to seek out the Horcruxes.

[Hes]

Peeps these Horcrux related discussions never stay short so we have two lovely horcrux threads for in-depth discussions: Discussion: The Horcruxes (last one with activity) and Questions about Horcruxes

Concerning the question if the Dark Mark disappeared after Voldemort's death. JKR has said in an interview that the Mark will fade into a scar.

Bloomsbury Live Chat with J.K. Rowling Finchburg: Does the dark mark remain on those that voldemort has branded after his death or does the tattoo dissapear now he is gone thanks for considering my question! J.K. Rowling: My pleasure, Finchburg! The Dark Mark would fade to a scar, not dissimilar to the lightning scar on Harry's forehead.

For further discussion we also have a thread on that The Dark Mark

[MinervasCat]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

Ha! I wonder if you got the idea from the same thread? I was perusing the Legilimency threads, I think, and they were talking about Dark Marks.

No. Actually, it was a commercial for a new Proactiv product that claims it removed "dark marks." Just wondering how many DEs are ordering it right now.

[MinervasCat]

If O.W.L.S. were the only thing that advancement to N.E.W.T. classes was based on, why did each teacher grade individual assignments? It seems a "pass/fail" would have been enough to tell the student how they were doing, but the teachers seem to give individual grades.