James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

Friendship doesn't always exist in the same state for the whole duration and had Peter not been in the know about Remus from the very beginning I think he might have eventually been phased out of the group simply due to him apparently not being on the same intellectual level as James and Sirius or that they would eventually grow weary of his constantly sycophantic attentions.

Why are you of the opinion that James would grow weary of Peter's sycophantic attentions? Sirius did seem annoyed at Peter's sycophantic attentions to James, but James himself in what we are shown, seems pleased enough.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by StarryVeil

Why do you think so? If you mean they wouldn't coincide with your positive opinion of the Marauders, I have to disagree. I think JKR herself liked them and I highly doubt she has a bad image of Harry's dad in her head (oh, what I wouldn't give to pick her brain...)

No, I mean the stories wouldn't coincide with the negative parts of James I imagine him having. I tend to imagine him with negative attributes that are more apparent in my mind than I think JKR might allow them be. I also think I imagine him with different negative attributes (above and beyond the ones we see in canon) than JKR would give him.

I also think that this hypothetical prequel series would show us more closely some kinds of intricate magic that weren't really explored in the books. This is because James seemed more naturally intelligent and dynamic than Harry, who was basically forced into all his adventures. James, however, together with his friends, voluntarily delved into advanced Transfiguration, created an amazingly complex magical item (the Marauder's Map), figured out ways to open secret passageways without any help, learnt everything there was to know about werewolves (for his monthly jaunts with Remus) and who knows what else. If only there wasn't a Dark Lord loose who needed to be finished, I would've had a hard time choosing between the JP and HP series.

I think the first war really shaped James and the other characters of that era, though, so to remove Voldemort and the first war would create different characters. To a great extent, James is who he is because of the first war.

There's something else I've always wondered. In the books, the way a first-year walks towards the the Sorting Hat when McGonagall calls out their name, is always used as an indicator of their personality. I'm trying to imagine what James's walk to the Sorting Hat would've been like (swagger? trembling legs? (nah) eager rush?)and what his telepathic conversation with the Hat would've been. I sometimes feel that he, like Harry, "chose" his House by asking the Hat to place him in Gryffindor. JKR seemed to hint at it when Sirius asked James on the Hogwarts Express about what House he'd go to "if you had the choice." And James seemed pretty clear about what his choice was.

I think James would have confidently and somewhat eagerly hurried up to the sorting hat and I'm not sure how long the hat would have had to debate (is it said in the book how long the hat dilly-dallied? Lily was sorted almost instantaneously, I can't remember about James...) I think if the hat was waivering it was between Gryffindor and Ravenclaw, though I can see James having Hufflepuff qualities of loyalty, hardworker and "unafraid of toil" - you'd have to be unafraid of toil to take on becoming an animagus at the age of 13! That's a lot of work!

Originally Posted by arithmancer

Why are you of the opinion that James would grow weary of Peter's sycophantic attentions? Sirius did seem annoyed at Peter's sycophantic attentions to James, but James himself in what we are shown, seems pleased enough.

I think he would grow out of needing that kind of constant validation, it would come with the maturity he would gain with age, with getting married and having a child at such a young age, and in turn I think he would grow weary of reciprocating the validation I think he gave back to Peter; I don't think it was a one way street of ego-boosting, I think James gave back to Peter just as Peter gave to him. I think he wanted his friends to succeed, to thrive, to grow and I think after 10 years of trying to help Peter to do those things without making any headway (I think Peter played into friends' idea that he was a bit of a doofus though I don't think he was) James would get frustrated.

I also think to a certain extent that the bit of James we see in Snape's worst memory is specifically targeted to draw positive attention to himself so as to entice Lily in some way to interact with him so Peter was playing his part well. It's unclear from the tiny little bit of James and the marauders in SWM just how they interacted. I don't think one couple minute long memory is sufficient to say with 100% confidence that that is who those people were day to day, that is how they interacted day to day.

[StarryVeil]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

I think the first war really shaped James and the other characters of that era, though, so to remove Voldemort and the first war would create different characters. To a great extent, James is who he is because of the first war.

No, no, I didn't mean for JKR to take Voldy out of the equation completely. I just meant that he was still accumulating power during the First War and James wasn't his specfic target so James's school adventures need not necessarily have revolved around Voldemort (as Harry's did, except for in PoA). I completely agree that the war was crucial to James's personality development.

I think James would have confidently and somewhat eagerly hurried up to the sorting hat and I'm not sure how long the hat would have had to debate (is it said in the book how long the hat dilly-dallied? Lily was sorted almost instantaneously, I can't remember about James...) I think if the hat was waivering it was between Gryffindor and Ravenclaw, though I can see James having Hufflepuff qualities of loyalty, hardworker and "unafraid of toil" - you'd have to be unafraid of toil to take on becoming an animagus at the age of 13! That's a lot of work!

James's sorting wasn't described in detail in TPT, only Lily's. I just don't see James as a Ravenclaw type of person. Sure, he was smart but he can't really be called an intellectual, can he? He did all the smart things he did, not for the sake of learning but to help his friend and, well, whatever mischievous motives were there in his messy-haired noggin. And Hufflepuff...nah. As Hagrid said, Hufflepuffs are a loada duffers. But, seriously speaking, I imagine Hufflepuffs to be more courteous, soft-spoken and rule-abiding in their mannerisms. Sorta like Cedric. And "soft-spoken" and "rule-abiding" are the last words to describe James. So, I think James's sorting was quick, like Lily's. The Gryffindor-ness was too prevalent in him, IMO.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by StarryVeil

James's sorting wasn't described in detail in TPT, only Lily's. I just don't see James as a Ravenclaw type of person. Sure, he was smart but he can't really be called an intellectual, can he? He did all the smart things he did, not for the sake of learning but to help his friend and, well, whatever mischievous motives were there in his messy-haired noggin. And Hufflepuff...nah. As Hagrid said, Hufflepuffs are a loada duffers. But, seriously speaking, I imagine Hufflepuffs to be more courteous, soft-spoken and rule-abiding in their mannerisms. Sorta like Cedric. And "soft-spoken" and "rule-abiding" are the last words to describe James. So, I think James's sorting was quick, like Lily's. The Gryffindor-ness was too prevalent in him, IMO.

James, though, was extremely loyal - to a fault, he died because of his loyalty to a friend he didn't know was betraying him. He was also unafraid of toil and hard work as evidenced by his determination to be there for his friend even if it meant undertaking illegal and dangerous magic. Hufflepuffs are cheerful and friendly which I imagine James being - Sirius may have been the best-looking of the marauders but I imagine James had the better, friendlier personality. The biggest detractor for James as a Hufflepuff would probably be the fact that hufflepuffs are said not to be extraordinarily competitive and I imagine growing up the way he did with the parents he did that he probably strives to be the best and is competitive because of that which is not how any hufflepuff would be described to me.

Hufflepuffs are underestimated.

As for Ravenclaw, James is never described as an intellectual but I don't think that's a deterrent for his being sorted into that house. He was very clever and full of wit, I think what he lacked in terms of being sorted into Ravenclaw was wisdom, something he would gain in time but didn't come to Hogwarts with. I do think he had the drive to achieve high marks and to keep them high but I don't think he had the backstabbing quality sometimes attributed to Ravenclaws who would do just about anything to stay on top academically.

I think the deciding factors for why James was ultimately sorted into Gryffinder were his nerve, bravery and his bold (sometimes arrogant) confidence. These traits were the ones through which all his hufflepuff or ravenclaw traits were filtered.

[Melaszka]

Guys, can you stick to what's actually in the books? Speculation and what you would like to see happen belong in either the Wand or social groups.

[SlyEd]

Originally Posted by StarryVeil

I am of the opinion that JKR should write a whole prequel series where each book is titled "James Potter and the ____". Certainly their life seemed eventful enough to write a few books about.

Im guessing it would be predictable since we know what happens at the end, James & Lilly die, Sirius goes to prison, Wormtail escapes etc... Now i guess it would be interesting to read how they spent their 7 years becoming animagi or how they made maradeurs map etc... they did a lot of cool things.
Btw sorry im totally off topic here.

Not James fault of dath of his family

[Hes]

When a staffmember requests you to drop something and go elsewhere please do so: Future Novels in the HP world

[Goddess_Clio]

I'm sorry, I didn't think discussing James's sorting was out of bounds as he frankly does display most of the qualities I mention in canon and I do conclude in my post that he was sorted into the right house based on what he know of him. (If my post was the reason for Melaszka's warning, or part of the reason for it )

I have also moved discussion of a Marauder era series to the Future Novels in the HP world as suggested by Hes.

[StarryVeil]

Quotes from the Snape thread:

Originally Posted by MinervasCat

He was pretty obvious with his flirting and trying to impress her with the story of his heroism in saving Severus’ life, among other things (the sketch of the Snitch with her initials…).

If you mean that James was the one who told Lily about the werewolf incident, I have to disagree. Firstly, Remus being a werewolf was a serious secret; it was a matter of Remus’s future. From what we see and hear of James, I don’t think he would take this so lightly as to use a story so closely connected to Remus’s secret as a brag story for Lily. Secondly, it is said that DD had sworn all concerned to secrecy. Don’t think James would so blatantly break Dumbledore’s trust. Thirdly, at the time when this happened, Lily seemed to know about James’s habit of showing off for her. Therefore, I don’t think she would have been so sincere about her belief in his heroism if he (or his friends) had been the one to tell her about it. And lastly, there’s the infamous Hogwarts grapevine. In PS/SS, DD himself tells Harry, I quote, "What happened down in the dungeons between you and Professor Quirrell is a complete secret, so, naturally, the whole school knows.” (Ah, those days when Dumbledore was just a twinkle-eyed, funny old man…) Anyway, IMO, Lily heard of the incident like most students would have done - through the grapevine. Even the way she phrases it in TPT – “I heard what happened…” – sounds like how one would refer to something they heard through rumor and gossip.

(This is OT and trivial, but Snape never saw James writing Lily’s initials. We, readers, were shown that when Harry went exploring inside Snape’s memory.)

Originally Posted by TreacleTartlet

I'd say that looking at the scene after the OWL exam, Snape is not the one displaying obsessive behaviour. Just my opinion.

I don’t think James was displaying obsessive behavior in that scene. In my opinion, his behavior was like that of an infatuated, immature, and insecure schoolboy. Writing Lily’s initials – people do that all the time with whomever they’re crushing on. Showing off with the Snitch – immature showing off that’s normal in teenagers. Messing up his hair – seemed like a nervous, “Oh my god, she’s looking at me!” habit. Bullying Snape to gain Lily’s attention – very immature and ill-advised but not inconsistent with the character of a hormone-driven teen with a flamboyant personality. Plus, I think there’s righteous anger there too.

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

Lily never seemed to be a social climber and I don't think she saw her friendship with Snape as a burden - if she had she wouldn't have spent years defending him to her friends (which, BTW, would have killed any social status she had with her friends). Your statement above sounds more like a description of James or Sirius crica fifth year than Lily at any time. To me, at least.

James didn’t seem like a social climber to me either. If he was, he had reason to dissociate himself with all three of his best friends – Sirius, because of his dubious family background, especially in light of the looming war; Remus and Peter, because they were just not the type of kids with whom social climbers would associate. James formed his friendships in his first year at Hogwarts and saw them through until his dying day. His popularity seemed, to me, to be a result of his own skill at Quidditch and charisma, not because of the company he kept. But, yes, I suppose he liked being admired at that point.

[FurryDice]

[quote]

Originally Posted by StarryVeil

If you mean that James was the one who told Lily about the werewolf incident, I have to disagree. Firstly, Remus being a werewolf was a serious secret; it was a matter of Remus’s future. From what we see and hear of James, I don’t think he would take this so lightly as to use a story so closely connected to Remus’s secret as a brag story for Lily.

I agree. James and the rest of the Marauders were careful to keep Remus' secret. They knew well what the consequences would be if he were exposed.

Thirdly, at the time when this happened, Lily seemed to know about James’s habit of showing off for her. Therefore, I don’t think she would have been so sincere about her belief in his heroism if he (or his friends) had been the one to tell her about it.

Good point. There would be no reason for her to take seriously a tale of heroism coming from James.

I don’t think James was displaying obsessive behavior in that scene. In my opinion, his behavior was like that of an infatuated, immature, and insecure schoolboy. Writing Lily’s initials – people do that all the time with whomever they’re crushing on.

I also fail to see how doodling initials can possibly equal obsessive. It's something lots of teenagers do when they fancy someone. It's typically more of a girl's thing than a boy's, in my experience, but it's hardly obsessive by any stretch of the imagination. It's harmless and innocent and there's nothing obsessive about it.

James didn’t seem like a social climber to me either. If he was, he had reason to dissociate himself with all three of his best friends – Sirius, because of his dubious family background, especially in light of the looming war; Remus and Peter, because they were just not the type of kids with whom social climbers would associate.

Exactly. They weren't the kind of people that a social climber would befriend. James wasn't a user, he didn't hang around people to use them for "social climbing". He saw beyond the reputation of Sirius' prejudiced and dark-magic obsessed family to see that Sirius was not like them, that he was his own person and a better person. He looked beyond Remus' condition to see that he was just a kid with a health problem that was not his fault and that he should not suffer prejudice for. He befriended Peter, even though he was apparently not very skilled or exciting - that didn't matter, because to James, they were friends, not stepping stones to importance and social climbing.

James formed his friendships in his first year at Hogwarts and saw them through until his dying day. His popularity seemed, to me, to be a result of his own skill at Quidditch and charisma, not because of the company he kept. But, yes, I suppose he liked being admired at that point.

At that age, lots of people like being admired. It's preferable to being disliked.

[MerryLore]

[quote=FurryDice;6000713]

I agree. James and the rest of the Marauders were careful to keep Remus' secret. They knew well what the consequences would be if he were exposed.

Someone told Lily about it between the time she left Severus and the Marauders, and the time when she and Severus spoke outside the Gryffindor common room. I agree that the Marauders wanted it kept a secret - not only Remus' condition but what Sirius tried to do as well - however, I can see James trusting it with Lily after she confronted him with what she had witnessed earlier in the day. He wanted her to see him in the best possible light, and him being a hero would have sounded good, and she would have felt a closeness with him for being let in on the secret, as well as enjoyed being trusted, I think.

The Marauders seem to have been the most likely suspects, and James in particular was the one who benefited, IMHO.

ETA

Another thing I'd like to add is that Remus' secret seems to have remained a secret until PoA - if not, he never would have been allowed to teach. Since this is the case, it wasn't a secret similar to "naturally the whole school knows" - they never did, IMHO. I believe James told Lily in confidence.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by MerryLore

Someone told Lily about it between the time she left Severus and the Marauders, and the time when she and Severus spoke outside the Gryffindor common room. I agree that the Marauders wanted it kept a secret - not only Remus' condition but what Sirius tried to do as well - however, I can see James trusting it with Lily after she confronted him with what she had witnessed earlier in the day. He wanted her to see him in the best possible light, and him being a hero would have sounded good, and she would have felt a closeness with him for being let in on the secret, as well as enjoyed being trusted, I think.

Someone told Lily - however, James and co. wanted to keep Remus' condition a secret, so they would not go blabbing about it. I don't think that James would have risked Remus' safety, education and future by telling someone about his condition. He couldn't know how Lily would react. He couldn't know how she would feel about werewolves.

What did Lily witness that she would confront James with? The conversation about James saving Snape took place before SWM and before the parting of the ways outside the Gryffindor Common Room.

The Marauders seem to have been the most likely suspects, and James in particular was the one who benefited, IMHO.

I don't think he would risk his friend's safety to impress someone he fancied. I don't think the Marauders are the most likely suspects.

Another thing I'd like to add is that Remus' secret seems to have remained a secret until PoA - if not, he never would have been allowed to teach. Since this is the case, it wasn't a secret similar to "naturally the whole school knows" - they never did, IMHO. I believe James told Lily in confidence.

The whole school did not know, because the Marauders kept it quiet and Snape was sworn to secrecy by Dumbledore. However, people could have known of how James saved Snape from going down the tunnel. People would talk about these things.

[MerryLore]

Originally Posted by FurryDice

The whole school did not know, because the Marauders kept it quiet and Snape was sworn to secrecy by Dumbledore. However, people could have known of how James saved Snape from going down the tunnel. People would talk about these things.

"Saved him from what?" would have been the next question. I think Lily knew the answer. The school did not. I also don't think the school had any idea about what happened.

I believe James made the decision to trust Lily - he seemed to value her very highly and we tend to trust those we care about. He put his faith in Peter to be secret keeper - why would he not trust Lily - a woman he seems to have strong feelings for - with this? He also seemed to be the type who loved to show off his bravery - a trait Gryffindors value. He also appeared to see Severus as a rival for Lily's affections.

[TreacleTartlet]

Originally Posted by StarryVeil

I don’t think James was displaying obsessive behavior in that scene. In my opinion, his behavior was like that of an infatuated, immature, and insecure schoolboy. Writing Lily’s initials – people do that all the time with whomever they’re crushing on. Showing off with the Snitch – immature showing off that’s normal in teenagers. Messing up his hair – seemed like a nervous, “Oh my god, she’s looking at me!” habit. Bullying Snape to gain Lily’s attention – very immature and ill-advised but not inconsistent with the character of a hormone-driven teen with a flamboyant personality.

Well, I was being a little tongue in cheek, hence the smiley. *Note to self not to try humour.*

I agree with you that James was displaying the typical, normal behaviour of teenage crush or infatuation, which I understand as having a certain element of obsession by its nature.

However, I certainly don't see anything myself in James' behaviour that suggests he was insecure as a schoolboy.

Plus, I think there’s righteous anger there too.

I am not sure what James has to be angry about here? He doesn't show any sign of anger until after Lily berates him for being arrogant and a bully.


"Reading between the lines,I'd say she thinks you're a bit conceited mate," said Sirius.
"Right." said James, who looked furious now, "right -"(OotP, Snape's Worst Memory)

Then he turns his attention back on Snape.

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by MerryLore

Someone told Lily about it between the time she left Severus and the Marauders, and the time when she and Severus spoke outside the Gryffindor common room. I agree that the Marauders wanted it kept a secret - not only Remus' condition but what Sirius tried to do as well - however, I can see James trusting it with Lily after she confronted him with what she had witnessed earlier in the day. He wanted her to see him in the best possible light, and him being a hero would have sounded good, and she would have felt a closeness with him for being let in on the secret, as well as enjoyed being trusted, I think.

The Marauders seem to have been the most likely suspects, and James in particular was the one who benefited, IMHO.

I've just re-read Sev's and Lily's conversations up to the scene in front of the Gryff common room and I see no indication that Lily now knows about Remus's 'furry problem', if that's what you mean by 'it'. In fact at that point in their relationship (earlier in the day she'd called him a toerag after all) I can see no reason why James would have had a conversation with her between SWM and the split with Severus.

Is there anything in the books to indicate that Lily ever knew Remus was a werewolf? She's pretty dismissive of Severus's theory and I don't recall anything later.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by MerryLore

I believe James made the decision to trust Lily - he seemed to value her very highly and we tend to trust those we care about. He put his faith in Peter to be secret keeper - why would he not trust Lily - a woman he seems to have strong feelings for - with this? He also seemed to be the type who loved to show off his bravery - a trait Gryffindors value. He also appeared to see Severus as a rival for Lily's affections.

I agree that James trusted Lily and at some point made the decision to trust her with Lupin's secret but I also think that James valued Lupin enough and wanted to protect him enough that he wouldn't have told Lily about Lupin being a werewolf until he was certain that they were either a solid couple, they were affianced, or after they were married. I think him telling Lily about Lupin wasn't about bravery or showing off to her so mucb as sort of showing his commitment to her by entrusting her with one of the biggest secrets he himself had been entrusted with.

I also think that James wouldn't have gone behind Lupin's back and made the choice to tell Lily unilaterally, I think he would have had the talk with Lupin that he couldn't lie to Lily anymore or that he thought that Lily was trustworthy enough to be let in on the secret or whatever - or perhaps Lupin recognized that James was struggling with keeping the secret from Lily and gave his permission for James to tell her. I also have a suspicion that Lily's reaction wouldn't have been all that surprised having been tipped off by Snape and then having gotten front row seats to several months to a year of Lupin's transformations since I assume these animagus/werewolf nights continued after they left school. I can't imagine Lily not noticing that her boyfriend/fiance/husband disappeared with his friends on the night of every full moon.

[LyraLovegood]

Originally Posted by TreacleTartlet

. . .
However, I certainly don't see anything myself in James' behaviour that suggests he was insecure as a schoolboy.
. . .
I am not sure what James has to be angry about here? He doesn't show any sign of anger until after Lily berates him for being arrogant and a bully.
. . .

I don't think that James was insecure as a schoolboy, but I do think he might have been insecure as a boy who fancied a girl and was both uncertain and a bit clumsy in his efforts to get her attention. He got her attention, but it was not positive attention, and he turns to Sirius to ask why:

Originally Posted by TreacleTartlet

. . .


"Reading between the lines,I'd say she thinks you're a bit conceited mate," said Sirius.
"Right." said James, who looked furious now, "right -"(OotP, Snape's Worst Memory)

Then he turns his attention back on Snape.

As for what James might be angry about; I'm not sure that anger is what really shows against Snape here, but I do think that James is displeased with Severus because Severus is into the Dark Arts, Severus already has the affection (though probably not the romantic interest) of the girl James fancies, and Severus has been following James and his friends around in an effort to get them busted or expelled.

Just what I see reading the whole series, including the words of Remus and Sirius years later.

[StarryVeil]

Originally Posted by Merrylore

Someone told Lily about it between the time she left Severus and the Marauders, and the time when she and Severus spoke outside the Gryffindor common room.

SWM and Lily and Snape’s confrontation at the Fat Lady’s portrait both took place after Lily had revealed that she knew about James saving Snape.

Another thing I'd like to add is that Remus' secret seems to have remained a secret until PoA - if not, he never would have been allowed to teach. Since this is the case, it wasn't a secret similar to "naturally the whole school knows" - they never did, IMHO. I believe James told Lily in confidence.

They wouldn’t know that it was Lupin as a werewolf at the end of the tunnel, but they would know that James had saved Snape from something dangerous that lay at the end of the tunnel. Here’s what Lily says:

The Prince’s Tale, DH “I heard what happened the other night. You went sneaking down that tunnel by the Whomping Willow, and James Potter saved you from whatever’s down there—”

The underlined part is what, IMO, the Hogwarts grapevine was spreading.

Originally Posted by Merrylore

"Saved him from what?" would have been the next question.

That would have been left to speculation and I can honestly imagine gossipmongers coming up with more and more wild ideas as to what lay at the end of the tunnel. I think that would have made the rumor even more enticing. But at the end of the day, I believe the Mauraders’ and Snape’s mouths were sealed (by Dumbledore )

I believe James made the decision to trust Lily - he seemed to value her very highly and we tend to trust those we care about. He put his faith in Peter to be secret keeper - why would he not trust Lily - a woman he seems to have strong feelings for - with this? He also seemed to be the type who loved to show off his bravery - a trait Gryffindors value. He also appeared to see Severus as a rival for Lily's affections.

Firstly, whether he valued her or not, it wasn’t James’s secret to tell. Telling her the story of his heroics in confidence would have warranted answering her “Saving from what?” question and that was Remus’s secret. I don’t think Remus would have appreciated James asking him if he could tell Lily this story in order to impress her. Neither can I see James asking Remus for such a thing. Gryffindors may value bravery, but they value loyalty highly too. Secondly, James’s interaction with Lily in SWM (which occurred after Lily knew about the Shack incident) did not seem like one between two people who had had an intimate interaction previously. Thirdly, as I’ve stated before, I don’t think Lily would have been so sincere in her belief in James’s heroism if the story had come from James himself.

Originally Posted by TreacleTartlet

Well, I was being a little tongue in cheek, hence the smiley. *Note to self not to try humour.*

*Note to self not to take things too seriously.*

However, I certainly don't see anything myself in James' behaviour that suggests he was insecure as a schoolboy.

When I described him as “insecure”, I meant in that particular scene (SWM). As Sirius later says, James couldn’t help making a fool of himself in front of Lily – suggesting he was not at his most confident around her. Plus, his generally flashy behavior in that scene seemed to hide the insecurity inside him. And he did slip up sometimes – his free hand jumping to his hair the moment he heard Lily’s voice, the way he asked her out “quickly”, the way he tried but failed to look as though he couldn’t care less about Lily’s rejection, the way he turned “furious” afterwards and quickly shifted the crowd’s attention by going back to hexing Snape. And, when compared to Sirius who just sat around looking handsome , James was obviously less confident in his ability to attract Lily (or girls, in general). Just my interpretation, of course.

I am not sure what James has to be angry about here? He doesn't show any sign of anger until after Lily berates him for being arrogant and a bully.

The righteous anger bit was, IMO, part of James’s general feeling of animosity toward Snape, not just in SWM. Sort of like how Snape abhored James’s popularity and attraction to Lily, and James abhored Snape’s Dark Arts inclination…and attraction to Lily.

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

Is there anything in the books to indicate that Lily ever knew Remus was a werewolf? She's pretty dismissive of Severus's theory and I don't recall anything later.

No, in the books it’s never stated explicitly whether she knew of his condition or not. I personally believe she was filled in about it once she and James had reached a We’re-probably-going-to-get-married stage. One: she addresses Sirius as “Padfoot” in the letter – suggesting she knew about their Animagus status and, I’m assuming, by extension, Remus’s condition. And I honestly don’t see such a big thing like her husband being an Animagus being kept secret from her. Two: All Order members seemed to know of Remus being a werewolf since he was used as a spy among Voldemort-supporting werewolves. But I digress…

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by StarryVeil

That would have been left to speculation and I can honestly imagine gossipmongers coming up with more and more wild ideas as to what lay at the end of the tunnel. I think that would have made the rumor even more enticing. But at the end of the day, I believe the Mauraders’ and Snape’s mouths were sealed (by Dumbledore )


Firstly, whether he valued her or not, it wasn’t James’s secret to tell. Telling her the story of his heroics in confidence would have warranted answering her “Saving from what?” question and that was Remus’s secret. I don’t think Remus would have appreciated James asking him if he could tell Lily this story in order to impress her. Neither can I see James asking Remus for such a thing. Gryffindors may value bravery, but they value loyalty highly too. Secondly, James’s interaction with Lily in SWM (which occurred after Lily knew about the Shack incident) did not seem like one between two people who had had an intimate interaction previously. Thirdly, as I’ve stated before, I don’t think Lily would have been so sincere in her belief in James’s heroism if the story had come from James himself.

I wonder if it was some level of modesty or avoidance of the subject in regards to James saving Snape's life that was part of what got Lily initially interested in him. The reason I think James might appear modest or avoid the subject with curious students who might approach him would be to protect Remus's secret; he would want to avoid answering the question "Do you know what's down there?" which, of course, he knows the answer to but wouldn't go blabbing about because of his desire to protect Remus. James appearing so out of character in regards to an event Lily might assume he would want to play up might increase her interest in him or at least peak it.

Just a thought.

[LilyDreamsOn]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

I wonder if it was some level of modesty or avoidance of the subject in regards to James saving Snape's life that was part of what got Lily initially interested in him. The reason I think James might appear modest or avoid the subject with curious students who might approach him would be to protect Remus's secret; he would want to avoid answering the question "Do you know what's down there?" which, of course, he knows the answer to but wouldn't go blabbing about because of his desire to protect Remus. James appearing so out of character in regards to an event Lily might assume he would want to play up might increase her interest in him or at least peak it.

I could see that.

I think it's highly unlikely James was bragging about this incident because if there was one thing that was emphasized about James's character, it was that he placed a huge importance on trust--Remus himself said that James (like Harry) thought it the height of disonour to mistrust a friend. That means that he didn't only trust his friends completely, but he valued the trust his friends placed in him, IMO. I can't see him betraying Remus's trust for the sake of a girl he fancied, even if it was Lily. I always felt like Remus would have been the one to tell her.