Ravenclaw House: Group Character Analysis

[Gwendolen]

Originally Posted by Alicia6166

On an unrelated note from this particular debate, why was Lockhart in Ravenclaw? That may just be in the films but it doesn't make sense to me at all. Surely he should be in Slytherin. He was very cunning and used "any means necessary to achieve [his] ends." He didn't seem to be a very gifted wizard and he seemed to value achievement more than wit, so I don't think it's a matter of priorities or Ravenclaw qualities overriding his Slytherin tendencies. Does anyone understand this?

I think his ambition was to be admired for his intelligence and wit. He often tried to make himself look smarter than the other teachers, or offered them unwanted advice. He was gifted at memory charms, so he had some talent of his own.

I think he was much like Helena Ravenclaw, who stole her mother's diadem instead of earning a reputation of her own.

[Revaunch]

Originally Posted by Quachett

. Also the books never say you have to be open minded to be a ravenclaw, Luna was the only revanclaw shown to be open minded the rest never expressed anything either way and wit beyond measure seems to suggest prising logic and quick thinking not open mindedness.

In the books it also seems that Luna is not very well liked by her fellow Ravenclaws either, so I don't think they value a mind as open as Luna's so much. I would think that Hermione's statement to Xenophilious when she said something along the lines that "just because I can't prove that something doesn't exist doesn't mean that it is possible that it does" is more in line with mainstream Ravenclaw thinking. There is a distinct difference between having an open mind and being open to all knowledge. The riddles to open the door didn't require a specific answer just good logic, wit, or intelligence.


Why was Lockhart in Ravenclaw?
I don't see any qualities of Slytherin in Lockhart. He might have been a bad person but that doesn't immediately make him have Slytherin qualities. He wrote books on many subjects even household cleaning. He did seek knowledge because he actually went out and found the witches and wizards who actually did the things he wrote about. And, he very logically assumed that the books would not have sold nearly as much if people didn't think that he wrote them because those people were unattractive and didn't nearly have as much charm as him.

[MsJPotter]

Originally Posted by Revaunch

In the books it also seems that Luna is not very well liked by her fellow Ravenclaws either, so I don't think they value a mind as open as Luna's so much. I would think that Hermione's statement to Xenophilious when she said something along the lines that "just because I can't prove that something doesn't exist doesn't mean that it is possible that it does" is more in line with mainstream Ravenclaw thinking. There is a distinct difference between having an open mind and being open to all knowledge. The riddles to open the door didn't require a specific answer just good logic, wit, or intelligence.


Why was Lockhart in Ravenclaw?
I don't see any qualities of Slytherin in Lockhart. He might have been a bad person but that doesn't immediately make him have Slytherin qualities. He wrote books on many subjects even household cleaning. He did seek knowledge because he actually went out and found the witches and wizards who actually did the things he wrote about. And, he very logically assumed that the books would not have sold nearly as much if people didn't think that he wrote them because those people were unattractive and didn't nearly have as much charm as him.

Where did Rowling write that Lockhart was a Ravenclaw?
I don't think Rowling once mentions the school house of any of her adult characters outside of some the relatives of the kids. The Head of any House was a student from that House, but that's about it for any sure thing. It seems once you're out of school, nobody gives a hoot what House you belonged to. The Houses seem to be a schoolkid thing, left behind when you leave school and only important if you want you're kids to go to that House. Probably works the other way as well. If you hated the House you were in, you probably don't want your kids in it. I don't think Luna would worry too much if her kids didn't get sorted into Ravenclaw.

[Revaunch]

Originally Posted by MsJPotter

Where did Rowling write that Lockhart was a Ravenclaw?
I don't think Rowling once mentions the school house of any of her adult characters outside of some the relatives of the kids. The Head of any House was a student from that House, but that's about it for any sure thing. It seems once you're out of school, nobody gives a hoot what House you belonged to. The Houses seem to be a schoolkid thing, left behind when you leave school and only important if you want you're kids to go to that House. Probably works the other way as well. If you hated the House you were in, you probably don't want your kids in it. I don't think Luna would worry too much if her kids didn't get sorted into Ravenclaw.

Someone specifically asked why in the movies Lockhart is said to be a Ravenclaw. I was just answering that question.

[MrSleepyHead]

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath

I was always hesitant to consider myself a Ravenclaw because I doubted if I was smart enough but I have since realized that Ravenclaw is not only about academic intelligence but also the desire to learn, that hunger for knowledge, the wit of unconventional thinking and the pursuit of the philosophies of life. The free thinkers and the open minded. The dreamers, the romantics and the odd person is what defines a true Ravenclaw to me and if that is the case then I am a proud Ravenclaw all the way.

I agree with this. Ravenclaw House appears to be a mixture of the book smart and the free thinkers (with possible overlap within individuals). It mixes the academia of Hermione and the philosophies of Luna. I think, too often, readers perceive Ravenclaw as the brainy, academic-minded House. And, of course, this is true - but partly. There is a juxtaposition of two often entirely separate breeds of intelligence. Compare, for instance, the rational Hermione (I use Hermione as an example of the intelligence trait that I am describing and which I think Ravenclaw House is full of. But I am in full knowledge that Hermione was Sorted into Gryffindor. I would use a Ravenclaw example, but I do not think we know enough of any of them to use them as models.) to the open-minded Luna (And of course, Luna appears to be rather an oddity within her own House, but I do think her open mind would be shared by many House members.). I do not think it is valid to say that Hermione is smarter than Luna because their versions of intelligence are so incomparable. And we see, many times, how they clash.

To me, that is how I imagine Ravenclaw House: a heterogeneous mixture of intelligences, as well as those who simply aspire for intelligence, knowledge, and wisdom (which I perceive as 3 very separate ideals). Thus, I would expect the House to be very dynamic and often paradoxically contradicting.

I think the Head of House, Professor Flitwick, is an excellent display of how all of those characteristics are mixed into a single individual. Not only does he appear incredibly "book smart" and knowledgeable, but he also has a very open mind and, to me, seems like he would be quite philosophical.

Originally Posted by Alicia6166

On an unrelated note from this particular debate, why was Lockhart in Ravenclaw? That may just be in the films but it doesn't make sense to me at all.

Originally Posted by MsJPotter

Where did Rowling write that Lockhart was a Ravenclaw?

Lockhart being in Ravenclaw is a film creation, and a very subtle one at that. The only time we get a hint of what House he is in is the photograph of him we see when Harry is serving detention in CoS (film):

Photograph, courtesy of HPWiki:    

---

Source

As most discussion does not use the films as canon, Lockhart's House is still unknown from the books and interviews with JKR (and its discussion is probably more related to his character analysis thread, Gilderoy Lockhart: Character Analysis).

[MerryLore]

Originally Posted by Revaunch

Why was Lockhart in Ravenclaw?
I don't see any qualities of Slytherin in Lockhart. He might have been a bad person but that doesn't immediately make him have Slytherin qualities. He wrote books on many subjects even household cleaning. He did seek knowledge because he actually went out and found the witches and wizards who actually did the things he wrote about. And, he very logically assumed that the books would not have sold nearly as much if people didn't think that he wrote them because those people were unattractive and didn't nearly have as much charm as him.

I'm still on the fence. I can see lots of cunning, where he would go out, get memories, obliviate them, and pass them off as his own. He wanted power, even if that power were from books of other people's adventures. But I can see the movies putting him in Ravenclaw as well, for the reasons you mentioned.

[SusanBones]

Discussion of Gilderoy Lockhart belongs in the Gilderoy Lockhart:Character Analysis thread.

[AlderAndVeela]

Originally Posted by Revaunch

In the books it also seems that Luna is not very well liked by her fellow Ravenclaws either, so I don't think they value a mind as open as Luna's so much. I would think that Hermione's statement to Xenophilious when she said something along the lines that "just because I can't prove that something doesn't exist doesn't mean that it is possible that it does" is more in line with mainstream Ravenclaw thinking. There is a distinct difference between having an open mind and being open to all knowledge. The riddles to open the door didn't require a specific answer just good logic, wit, or intelligence.

People keep talking about Ravenclaws like they are all identical but we must remember that we are looking at their traits as a group. And as with any group, each member will have their own things they bring to the table. Neville, Hermione, Ron, and Harry all had different reasons for being in Gryfindor and we got to see how that played out for each of them in the books.
The problem with Ravenclaw is that we haven't seen a lot of them so we're left grasping at straws though we do have some details.
That being said, open-mindedness might be a Ravenclaw trait but it does not mean that every single Ravenclaw must have it.
Wit, a love for knowledge, curiosity, or open-mindedness individually might be enough to land one in Ravenclaw though, of course, it is more likely to be put in Ravenclaw if you have several of these qualities.

[Revaunch]

Originally Posted by AlderAndVeela

People keep talking about Ravenclaws like they are all identical but we must remember that we are looking at their traits as a group. And as with any group, each member will have their own things they bring to the table. Neville, Hermione, Ron, and Harry all had different reasons for being in Gryfindor and we got to see how that played out for each of them in the books.
The problem with Ravenclaw is that we haven't seen a lot of them so we're left grasping at straws though we do have some details.
That being said, open-mindedness might be a Ravenclaw trait but it does not mean that every single Ravenclaw must have it.
Wit, a love for knowledge, curiosity, or open-mindedness individually might be enough to land one in Ravenclaw though, of course, it is more likely to be put in Ravenclaw if you have several of these qualities.

Exactly, our main exposure to Ravenclaw is Luna. But I don't think she exemplifies the typical Ravenclaw with her open mindedness. I would think a Ravenclaw would be open minded in that they would seek and learn new knowledge but only a few would extend that to include knowledge related to things without proof. Having an open mind does not mean you have to accept nonsense, bad logic, and only believe in things that have absolutely no proof.

It doesn't seem that Luna's open mind that is completely non-discriminating in regards to evidence and proof would be typical of Ravenclaws.

[Hes]

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