Minor parts of the story that alarm or surprise you.

[GrimeldaDursley]

I think I liked Luna's commentary the best. I noticed just now that there's been a commentator from every house but Slytherin. I wonder why?

[merrymarge]

Who did commentary from Hufflepuff House? Now that you mentioned it, I think it was a slight on Slytherin for not doing commentary. Slytherins didn't do much, but antagonize people, and they have the rep, for having "bad" students. I wonder if this was deliberate on Jo's part, to help portray them as the "bad students".

[tru0001]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

Who did commentary from Hufflepuff House? Now that you mentioned it, I think it was a slight on Slytherin for not doing commentary. Slytherins didn't do much, but antagonize people, and they have the rep, for having "bad" students. I wonder if this was deliberate on Jo's part, to help portray them as the "bad students".

Zacharias Smith was the commentator for Hufflepuff

[MrNorris]

Why on earth, under any circumstances, were four first years sent to the forest in the middle of the night for detention, when there was a dangerous unkown creature lucking inside them?

[MerryLore]

Originally Posted by MrNorris

Why on earth, under any circumstances, were four first years sent to the forest in the middle of the night for detention, when there was a dangerous unkown creature lucking inside them?

I think Hagrid had a tendency to underestimate the dangerousness of creatures, and to overestimate his ability to protect the students from them. He needed help finding an injured unicorn, and assumed the students would be safe with him there, even if they split up, since he spent quite a lot of time in the forbidden forest. Myself, I would not have seen it that way, but I think Hagrid did.

[X_Bumblebee_X]

Snape was in Slytherin and he wasnt painted negatively, and neither was Regulus Black. (in the end, anyway)

[inthebreeze]

Here is one that could be positive or negative, or both:

The second task in Goblet of Fire has the four champions go into the lake to retrieve 'what they'll sorely miss'. Some people jump on Harry a bit for assuming this would be his Firebolt (or his cloak, the Marauder's Map, etc.) as opposed to a living person, although I would give him the benefit of the doubt as the egg's clue says 'what', not 'who', 'it' instead of 'they', etc., so he may not have considered a friend being what he had to retrieve from the lake.

As it was, though, four people were taken to the bottom of the lake. Krum's person was Hermione and Cedric's was Cho, and both couples were very new. Krum and Hermione had only been together (if you could really even call it that?) for two months, and it seems that Cho and Cedric only got together after Cedric asked her to the ball, so in their case, a little over two months.

It is possible that Cho and Hermione were picked for dramatic effect (three people Harry cared about and believed to be in mortal danger compared to just one being more impactful to the reader) but Fleur's sister being chosen makes this unlikely. It could just have easily been a sibling for Krum and Cedric invented just as a plot device for the task and then forgotten about, as Gabrielle is (more or less, her being in DH wasn't really a big deal in the story), but Cho and Hermione were chosen as the things Cedric and Krum would most sorely miss.

The thing that could be positive or negative about this is that neither boy knew either girl for very long. Krum cannot possibly have known Hermione for more than a couple of months, and even if Cedric and Cho knew each other (and it is probable they did, at least from playing against each other in quidditch matches) it seems that serious feelings between them only began around the time of the Yule Ball (two months before the task), and for those girls to be what those boys would most sorely miss could point to two things - either Krum and Cedric were much, much more attached and fond of (or in love with?) their hostages than is generally believed, or both were a lot more lonely and isolated than you might think. If it is the former, and Krum and Cedric were so smitten with those girls that they were what they'd most sorely miss, then it makes their characters a lot warmer than is generally acknowledged. We know Cedric was a good bloke, and Krum was decent as well, and this would mean their connections with their hostages much more than just schoolboy romances. It makes Cho infinitely more sympathetic in Order of the Phoenix (because it would mean Cho/Cedric was not some silly Ron/Lavender romance but for all we know, a prelude to marriage), and the idea of Krum being that attached to Hermione, and only being able to contact her by letter for the succeeding years paints him in a lot sadder a light than his (in my opinion, completely out of character) appearance in Deathly Hallows brings to the reader. If it is the latter, and Cedric and Krum had only vague, unformed crushes (as opposed to 'true', powerful feelings) towards the two girls, than for them to be what they would sorely miss means that neither of them can have had much serious friendship in their lives, and/or possibly been close to any siblings or cousins.

Fleur's sister makes perfect sense as a hostage. Harry's hostage being Ron proves that the hostages did not have to be family or romantic interests, and that it could just be 'your best mate'. Either Cedric and Krum's feelings for their girls were so powerful they were greater than that for any other good friends, siblings, cousins etc. they had, even with the short time both boys had with those girls, or those girls were not products of serious feelings, and rather just a kind of 'better than nothing' option, and they were chosen just for having some connection -any connection- to the two champions, and that neither boy had any other friends/relatives that would've made better alternatives.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by inthebreeze

The second task in Goblet of Fire has the four champions go into the lake to retrieve 'what they'll sorely miss'.

...It is possible that Cho and Hermione were picked for dramatic effect (three people Harry cared about and believed to be in mortal danger compared to just one being more impactful to the reader) but Fleur's sister being chosen makes this unlikely. It could just have easily been a sibling for Krum and Cedric invented just as a plot device for the task and then forgotten about, as Gabrielle is (more or less, her being in DH wasn't really a big deal in the story), but Cho and Hermione were chosen as the things Cedric and Krum would most sorely miss.

I sort of agree and disagree with the dramatic effect idea here. I think it more likely that Jo didn't want to introduce yet more characters into an already character-intensive series of books who would come in for the one task and then disappear without ever being heard from again. Gabrielle was sort of like this but more acceptable in that Fluer later becomes Ron's older brother's love interest and future wife and Gabielle does make another appearance in the series as a bridesmaid.

[Pan_Kleks]

I think we are all taking the concept of the task, a bit seriously. Harry did so without realising that Dumbledore would not have let anyone drown, and perhaps because of the fact that the song was overtly dramatic while safety measures were still put in place, it would obviously mean that the hostages taken had a connection to their champions but were not necessarily the things they would sorely miss.

Although, than again Krum and Cedric were both of age and I mean let's be honest; it's not hard to develop a strong infatuation for someone at that age. Many will oft enough confuse infatuation with the feeling of love. So I can't see why both theories could be correct instead of J.K just being 'lazy' and not wanting to introduce more characters.

[BrianTung]

Originally Posted by MerryLore

I think Hagrid had a tendency to underestimate the dangerousness of creatures, and to overestimate his ability to protect the students from them. He needed help finding an injured unicorn, and assumed the students would be safe with him there, even if they split up, since he spent quite a lot of time in the forbidden forest. Myself, I would not have seen it that way, but I think Hagrid did.

Not to mention sending them to talk to Aragog.

[Roonil_Wazlib09]

I was reading over this thread and listening to DH on tape when something hit me.

In Lily's letter to Sirius, she mentions that Bathilda Bagshot stops by most days. This is when they are in hiding. That would mean that the Secret Keeper would have had to tell Bathilda Bagshot the secret. Which means that she would have known that it was Peter Pettigrew, not Sirius.

Unless she was given a note telling her the secret (like Harry got in OotP). But even then, she is a famous historian. I can't believe that a famous historian deeply involved in one of the most important events in her generation would not have investigated further. She could have easily checked the handwriting in the note. I think there is no chance that Bathilda did not either directly know or figure out that the Secret Keeper was Pettigrew...

Oh, and Goddess_Clio, you have the best signature ever! I know because Mr. Bimbo told me!

[OldMotherCrow]

Originally Posted by Roonil_Wazlib09

I was reading over this thread and listening to DH on tape when something hit me.

In Lily's letter to Sirius, she mentions that Bathilda Bagshot stops by most days. This is when they are in hiding. That would mean that the Secret Keeper would have had to tell Bathilda Bagshot the secret. Which means that she would have known that it was Peter Pettigrew, not Sirius.

I believe James and Lily were in hiding before they used Fidelius Charm, because they were Order members and had defied Voldemort three times. According to the conversation in Chapter 10, "The Marauder's Map", PoA, it was around a week from the time that the Fidelius Charm was cast that James and Lily were killed. I think before that they were in hiding without the Fidelius Charm, and Bathilda Bagshot could visit them without the need to hear their location from a Secret Keeper. I don't think she visited them for the week after the Fidelius Charm was put into effect, or ever heard from Peter Pettigrew that he was their Secret Keeper during that week.

[merrymarge]

Thanks for pointing that out. for some reason, the first time I read DH, back in '07, I thought Dumbledore told Bathilda that the Potters were in hiding under the Fidelius charm, but sometime later, I remembered that Dumbledore could't tell her because he wasn't secret keeper. But I still wondered how Bathilda managed to visit the Potters. Would James still have been able to leave while under his invisibility cloak?

[MerryLore]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

. Would James still have been able to leave while under his invisibility cloak?

He could have, but Dumbledore had the invisibility cloak when they were killed, and I don't think the books tell us how long he had had it.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by Roonil_Wazlib09

In Lily's letter to Sirius, she mentions that Bathilda Bagshot stops by most days. This is when they are in hiding. That would mean that the Secret Keeper would have had to tell Bathilda Bagshot the secret. Which means that she would have known that it was Peter Pettigrew, not Sirius.

Unless she was given a note telling her the secret (like Harry got in OotP). But even then, she is a famous historian. I can't believe that a famous historian deeply involved in one of the most important events in her generation would not have investigated further. She could have easily checked the handwriting in the note. I think there is no chance that Bathilda did not either directly know or figure out that the Secret Keeper was Pettigrew...

I agree, this is confusing. I don't think Bathilda knew Peter was Secret Keeper - keeping the identity of your secret keeper a secret is just as important as keeping whatever your wanting to keep secret with the fidelius charm a secret otherwise what's the point? - since apparently only four people knew the secrete keeper had been switched (James, Lily, Sirius and Peter himself), two of whom died, the third went to prison and the fourth into hiding as a rat, and I also think that writing the potter's address or something on a piece of paper is a lousy way to pass the secret on. What if the paper were blown away in the wind? Or fell out of the pocket of the person carrying the note? Then any wizard who picks it up and reads it would then know the secret and be able to get into Lily and James house or number 12 gimmauld place! Bad plan. Bad.

Oh, and Goddess_Clio, you have the best signature ever! I know because Mr. Bimbo told me!

Thanks, love yours too!

[phoenixxxx7]

Moody was good friends with dumbledore and had been for years. They knew each other well because of the order of the phoenix too. So why did he not realise that his good friend was being acted by an imposter? It was right under his nose the whole year! Just seems a bit weird to me

[JustTonks]

I still find it odd that Hermione spent so little time with her parents. And Im still rather confused about the ski trip in Order of the Phoenix. Did she leave and then decide to go to Grimmauld or did she not see her parents at all?

[GrimeldaDursley]

Originally Posted by JustTonks

I still find it odd that Hermione spent so little time with her parents. And Im still rather confused about the ski trip in Order of the Phoenix. Did she leave and then decide to go to Grimmauld or did she not see her parents at all?

I, too always wondered why her parents always seemed okay with her spending so little time with them during holidays. She always seemed to be at the Weasley's during the summer, too. It would have bothered me if my only child chose not to spend time with me during holidays.

[wolfbrother]

Originally Posted by phoenixxxx7

Moody was good friends with dumbledore and had been for years. They knew each other well because of the order of the phoenix too. So why did he not realise that his good friend was being acted by an imposter? It was right under his nose the whole year! Just seems a bit weird to me

I doubt they were close. I think they had a good professional relationship and discussed various things but nothing personal. Also, Dumbledore would have never expected someone to impersonate Moody. Impersonating Moody was an audacious plan that Dumbledore never even thought of that possibility. The whole GoF plot was just sheer brilliance from Voldemort and Crouch Jr; they out-thought and out-witted everyone.

[magentastorm]

1. It has always bothered me that Molly believed Rita's article about Hermione in GoF.

She already knew that she wrote lies, because of the article on the DE attack at the World Cup, and yet she still believed it, and not only that, but sent Hermione a tiny Easter egg as 'punishment.'

It would be bad enough if she hadn't given her one at all, but it was just spiteful to give her a smaller one. That level of pettyness shown from a grown woman to a 15 year old girl is astounding! It's just as bad as the Dursleys' tissues and toothpicks presents to Harry, and really impacts my generally good opinion of Molly.

On a similar note, I don't like the way that Molly is always trying to cut Bill's hair. I know it's only a small thing, but I don't like the way she interferes in her grown son's life like that. Of course, this opinion is from someone who has personal issues with her mother doing the same thing, so maybe it's just me.

2. Snape trying to poison Trevor. Even more unforgivable than the Death Eater-ing and the Mudblood-saying imo, because this is after he's supposed to have turned good.

3. Sirius' werewolf prank. Still cannot wrap my head around that one. I love Sirius and hate Snape but still, what the hell was that? Another thing I find disturbing about it, is, not only was he willing to murder Snape, who, despite being a nasty piece of work did not deserve to die, just what did he think would happen to Lupin if he had killed or bitten Snape? I know Sirius doesn't think before he does things, but he can't be stupid enough to not realise that Lupin's life would have been utterly screwed up by that.

4. The Gaunt's being so messed up from inbreeding... can you really get that bad from first cousin marriage? I would have thought you'd have to go closer to get physical deformities... but I suppose it was over hundreds of years. Still, second cousins marry in the series (for example, Sirius' parents) and no other pureblood family is shown to have any problems. Or at least not physical ones, it's possible that Bella's and to some extent Sirius' craziness could come from that.

Originally Posted by inthebreeze

Here is one that could be positive or negative, or both:

The second task in Goblet of Fire has the four champions go into the lake to retrieve 'what they'll sorely miss'. Some people jump on Harry a bit for assuming this would be his Firebolt (or his cloak, the Marauder's Map, etc.) as opposed to a living person, although I would give him the benefit of the doubt as the egg's clue says 'what', not 'who', 'it' instead of 'they', etc., so he may not have considered a friend being what he had to retrieve from the lake.

As it was, though, four people were taken to the bottom of the lake. Krum's person was Hermione and Cedric's was Cho, and both couples were very new. Krum and Hermione had only been together (if you could really even call it that?) for two months, and it seems that Cho and Cedric only got together after Cedric asked her to the ball, so in their case, a little over two months.

It is possible that Cho and Hermione were picked for dramatic effect (three people Harry cared about and believed to be in mortal danger compared to just one being more impactful to the reader) but Fleur's sister being chosen makes this unlikely. It could just have easily been a sibling for Krum and Cedric invented just as a plot device for the task and then forgotten about, as Gabrielle is (more or less, her being in DH wasn't really a big deal in the story), but Cho and Hermione were chosen as the things Cedric and Krum would most sorely miss.

The thing that could be positive or negative about this is that neither boy knew either girl for very long. Krum cannot possibly have known Hermione for more than a couple of months, and even if Cedric and Cho knew each other (and it is probable they did, at least from playing against each other in quidditch matches) it seems that serious feelings between them only began around the time of the Yule Ball (two months before the task), and for those girls to be what those boys would most sorely miss could point to two things - either Krum and Cedric were much, much more attached and fond of (or in love with?) their hostages than is generally believed, or both were a lot more lonely and isolated than you might think. If it is the former, and Krum and Cedric were so smitten with those girls that they were what they'd most sorely miss, then it makes their characters a lot warmer than is generally acknowledged. We know Cedric was a good bloke, and Krum was decent as well, and this would mean their connections with their hostages much more than just schoolboy romances. It makes Cho infinitely more sympathetic in Order of the Phoenix (because it would mean Cho/Cedric was not some silly Ron/Lavender romance but for all we know, a prelude to marriage), and the idea of Krum being that attached to Hermione, and only being able to contact her by letter for the succeeding years paints him in a lot sadder a light than his (in my opinion, completely out of character) appearance in Deathly Hallows brings to the reader. If it is the latter, and Cedric and Krum had only vague, unformed crushes (as opposed to 'true', powerful feelings) towards the two girls, than for them to be what they would sorely miss means that neither of them can have had much serious friendship in their lives, and/or possibly been close to any siblings or cousins.

Fleur's sister makes perfect sense as a hostage. Harry's hostage being Ron proves that the hostages did not have to be family or romantic interests, and that it could just be 'your best mate'. Either Cedric and Krum's feelings for their girls were so powerful they were greater than that for any other good friends, siblings, cousins etc. they had, even with the short time both boys had with those girls, or those girls were not products of serious feelings, and rather just a kind of 'better than nothing' option, and they were chosen just for having some connection -any connection- to the two champions, and that neither boy had any other friends/relatives that would've made better alternatives.

Thank you, this has always bothered me too.

However, another explanation is that the school just wanted to pick people that were easily accessible, rather that literally being their Champions 'most missed thing' and Gabrielle was only there because Fleur had made absolutely no connections at Hogwarts, whereas the other had, regardless of the strength of their respective relationships. At least, I'd prefer to believe that than than sad implications of your theory.