A Song of Ice and Fire

[Annielogic]

Finished ASoS (Steel and Snow along with Blood and Gold), it was intensely written and brilliantly crafted! I liked the insight and enrichment to the Jaime character. I really liked Davos. On to A Feast for Crows!

[glacevenor]

Originally Posted by Annielogic

Finished ASoS (Steel and Snow along with Blood and Gold), it was intensely written and brilliantly crafted! I liked the insight and enrichment to the Jaime character. I really liked Davos. On to A Feast for Crows!

You'll enjoy Feast, not only because it has got a large bunch of Cersei chapters, but also it builds up wonderfully to ADwD. Assuming you have started the book, it is safe to say you must be pretty shocked to find a few of the main characters' POV missing. This is what I really liked about the book albeit it becomes a bit frustrating. But the wait is worth it when you finish this one and enter ADwD. Enjoy your read.

[xhanax315]

Originally Posted by glacevenor

You'll enjoy Feast, not only because it has got a large bunch of Cersei chapters, but also it builds up wonderfully to ADwD. Assuming you have started the book, it is safe to say you must be pretty shocked to find a few of the main characters' POV missing. This is what I really liked about the book albeit it becomes a bit frustrating. But the wait is worth it when you finish this one and enter ADwD. Enjoy your read.

I'm about two hundred pages in already of A Feast for Crows, and yeah I've noticed the absence of certain characters. I was hoping to see more of certain ones, but unfortunately I guess I'll have to wait to see what happens to them in the next book, huh? I'm not even that far in and Cersi is irritating me.

[Moriath]

That's what Cersei does. I loved getting her point of view though.

[Lord Godric]

Her descent into madness certainly was fun to watch from inside her mind, even if I was hoping she died every step of the way.

And don't forget Hana that AFfC is only half the story, with ADwD happening at the same time. I'm tempted on my next read to combine the two books and read it chronologically.

[xhanax315]

Originally Posted by Lord Godric

Her descent into madness certainly was fun to watch from inside her mind, even if I was hoping she died every step of the way.

And don't forget Hana that AFfC is only half the story, with ADwD happening at the same time. I'm tempted on my next read to combine the two books and read it chronologically.

That's a lot to take in that they're happening simultaneously. How would you combine the two?

[Lord Godric]

Originally Posted by xhanax315

That's a lot to take in that they're happening simultaneously. How would you combine the two?

There have been many attempts online, particularly at forums dedicated to ASoIaF at creating a universal timeline to combine the events of Feast and Dance. It wouldn't be too hard to combine them, I don't think.

Although there are plenty of people who feel like the books should be read as GRRM published them, but personally I see no reason why one has to read AFfC first and then ADwD second (except for the important fact that the second half of Dance recombined the narratives and moves beyond the point where Feast ended, but combining them into one narrative would solve that).

[Annielogic]

Originally Posted by glacevenor

You'll enjoy Feast, not only because it has got a large bunch of Cersei chapters, but also it builds up wonderfully to ADwD. Assuming you have started the book, it is safe to say you must be pretty shocked to find a few of the main characters' POV missing. This is what I really liked about the book albeit it becomes a bit frustrating. But the wait is worth it when you finish this one and enter ADwD. Enjoy your read.

Oh, I did enjoy Feast of Crows very much! Fascinating to read Jaime's development. Yes, I was eager to learn what happened to Davos, or about Jon and Tyrion's progress, but still engrossed in the tale. Brienne's fate took me by surprise. Nearly halfway through ADwD now.

[xhanax315]

Finally finished A Feast for Crows... Why is it taking me so long to move through this series?? Well I'm leaping for joy about Cersi's predictament, I actually have taken a liking for Jamie. I was very excited when we came across Stoneheart, is that how I should call her now? I can't wait to start A Dance with Dragons to see all the charactes I've missed.

[Annielogic]

Originally Posted by xhanax315

Finally finished A Feast for Crows... Why is it taking me so long to move through this series?? Well I'm leaping for joy about Cersi's predictament, I actually have taken a liking for Jamie. I was very excited when we came across Stoneheart, is that how I should call her now? I can't wait to start A Dance with Dragons to see all the charactes I've missed.

Excellent! I hope you'll share your feelings about A Dance with Dragons. I'm very eager to know what happens to Jon Snow, Jaime, Dany and Tyrion upon finishing this book, but now have to wait until The Winds of Winter is published.

[barrychenault]

Hey guys! I am reading through the series for the first time and I am just about done with ASoS. Wow. Just read the Red Wedding and ok...

Spoiler: show

I am just wondering..did anyone else sense the overwhelming sense of foreboding leading up to that chapter?! I mean..I never expected for Cat and Robb to be murdered, but at the same time, I knew something terrible was about to go down. So I was just wondering what you guys thought about that.

But yeah...wow...I can't comprehend how amazing this book is. It's basically everything I've ever wanted in a work of fiction. Haha it's my childhood on steroids! I mean, everything! The writing, the tourneys, the chivalry, the characters, the castles, the politics..I mean the list just goes on and on. I really love this book series so much. And yeah. Haha it's nice to find people who understand my passion! Now...that being said...I really can't bring myself to say that it's better than Harry Potter. Nothing in my mind will ever beat the original. (Well..ok...original for me..haha it's what got me reading in the first place.) But anyway! I am bantering.

Favorite Character: Tyrion. Duh. So amazingly cunning and just epic "HALFMAN!! HALFMAN!!"

Favorite House: Probably the Starks. Although I have a bit of a guilty pleasure in that I really love Dany and hope she comes to Westeros and kicks some butt!

What do you like about ASoIaF: See above. Ha.

Which mystery do you want to be solved in the upcoming book: Ya know..I really don't know..I guess the mystery of the story..ready to figure out what's gonna happen, I guess.

Who will die and who will live: Well...

Spoiler: show

Since Robb and Cat have been killed off..haha..I really did think at the beginning of this book that they wouldn't make it to the end of the series..I just had a gut feeling I suppose..

But. Anyway. Who would live? I can see Tyrion making it all the way. Along with Dany, Arya, Jon Snow, and (if you haven't finished ACoK don't read)

Spoiler: show

I can see Bran making it all the way. He has too much of a compelling story.

Well!! Ok..haha I think I got it all off my chest! Haha!

[DeliciousMoon]

Finally finished ADWD!

[quote=barrychenault;6006277]

Spoiler: show

I am just wondering..did anyone else sense the overwhelming sense of foreboding leading up to that chapter?!

Well, on forums people kept writing the Red Wedding without spoiler tags ( ) so I kind of figured something bad would happen during one. I was suspicious as soon as any wedding was brought up. Also, not that I caught this on my first reading, but in the House of the Undying Dany actually sees the Red Wedding a book before it happens.

What is your favourite character?
There's too many to choose from! My top favourites are Dany, Jon, Arya, Sansa, Catelyn, Jaime, Brienne, Asha, Sam, and Arianne. Also all the direwolves and

Spoiler: show

dragons!

Your favourite house?
The Starks! Though I also love the Martells and can't wait to see more of them in the next books. They also allow women to inherit so they get a million bonus points for that. I would say the Targaryens too, but half are mad and most aren't as awesome as Dany.

What do you like about ASoIaF?
The characters, the strong women, the settings, and the fact that I really never know what's going to happen next.

Which mystery do you want to see solved in the upcoming book?
Confirmation of R+L=J. ADWD spoilers:

Spoiler: show

What really happened with Stannis and Bolton. If Jon Snow is really dead.

Who will die and who will live?
No idea. I hope Dany survives and takes the iron throne though.

[Lord Godric]

Originally Posted by DeliciousMoon

Who will die and who will live?
No idea. I hope Dany survives and takes the iron throne though.

I hope she doesn't. In fact, I hope she dies for Westeros. I have a lot of problems with Dany. We have seen in ADwD how she is a horrible leader and can not control a city-state let alone an entire warring country. She, also, like her brother believes that she is destined to rule Westeros and doesn't believe she needs to work for it. That is why I would much rather see Dany come to the realization that sacrificing herself (perhaps in battle with the Others) would prove she deserves to rule. It is not entitled to her.

With that said, Martin obviously is going down the path of having Dany rule and it's disappointing. Because whereas he usually avoids tropes, she is the biggest fantasy trope embodied in one person.

[DeliciousMoon]

Originally Posted by Lord Godric

We have seen in ADwD how she is a horrible leader and can not control a city-state let alone an entire warring country. She, also, like her brother believes that she is destined to rule Westeros and doesn't believe she needs to work for it.

I think your second statement contradicts your first. The reason she stayed in Meereen was because she wanted to work on being a queen before she actually conquered westeros imo. She doesn't want to just be a queen, she wants to be a good queen. I don't think Viserys would have stayed to try and protect the free slaves either. Dany's like Jon I think in the sense that she actually cares about her people, something a lot of the other potential kings/queens lack. Since it wasn't within her morals to abandon the freed slaves in Meereen, she was put in a pretty tough position. But she tried. She put aside her own happiness for the city

Spoiler: show

by getting married

. Yes, she made mistakes, but I'm hoping the next books show how she learned from them. Plus, she's only like what, 15 right now?

[Lord Godric]

Originally Posted by DeliciousMoon

I think your second statement contradicts your first. The reason she stayed in Meereen was because she wanted to work on being a queen before she actually conquered westeros imo.

I don't agree with this. She stayed in Meereen because she had overthrown the balance of power and if her past examples taught her anything it was that things would regress the second she left. She has learned that conquering is not "one and done" but requires actually governing. I do not agree that she stayed in Meereen to learn to be a good queen. That may have been Martin's reason for bogging her down there for so long, but I never see any inclination in the text that Dany purposely stayed there for that purpose.

She doesn't want to just be a queen, she wants to be a good queen. I don't think Viserys would have stayed to try and protect the free slaves either. Dany's like Jon I think in the sense that she actually cares about her people, something a lot of the other potential kings/queens lack. Since it wasn't within her morals to abandon the freed slaves in Meereen, she was put in a pretty tough position. But she tried. She put aside her own happiness for the city

Spoiler: show

by getting married

.

Yet she did not effectively rule, and she couldn't even forsake her own happiness for a long duration of time. Dany's tenure as the Queen of Meereen was disastrous. She brought disease and war to the city and, while she has freed the slaves, she has created an environment that is just as dangerous. And then at the height of all of this, she decides she should no longer put governing in front of her own happiness and sheds her "rabbit ears" to flee the city.

Yes, she made mistakes, but I'm hoping the next books show how she learned from them. Plus, she's only like what, 15 right now?

I have no doubt that Martin will have her improve, she seems to be getting there already with her final chapter in Dance. But I think it is entirely a fabrication that Martin is using to push Dany to become a good ruler, not an actual change of character. I hope that Martin can convince me that Dany will be a good ruler, but so far she hasn't been. And I don't think her age is a good enough excuse because at best she'll be 17 by the end of the books and that is not much more mature than she is now.

When you compare Dany to people like Tyrion (or even Stannis who isn't personally likeable but makes a good king), I really don't think this story will end with the best ruler on the throne. I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

[Moriath]

I can't be that hard on Dany, personally. In a way, I think, it was necessary for her to fail at ruling because otherwise she would have been too much of a Mary Sue. She's a little girl lost without trusted advisers, she's been betrayed too many times to count and she also has to shoulder the burden of having to raise three dragons without a How to Train Your Dragon manual. I think it was just too much for a girl her age. Sure, there are more accomplished men around - Tyrion is well-read, smart, wily etc. But he's also twice Dany's age and even he makes mistakes and trusts the wrong people. Stannis is too set in his ways and gaoled by his own moral code. He's as flexible as a steel rod.

I think Dany would make a good queen eventually. She's willing to adapt to local customs, she's a good strategist, she's charming yet also commanding and she doesn't give up easily. She's a survivor who's shouldered responsibility for her people at a very young age and she's willing to learn from past mistakes. And what's more, she has Targaryen blood. And apart from legitimisation by conquest that's what counts in Westeros.

[Lord Godric]

I just think that the only reason people view Dany has a good option for queen is the nature of the story itself. Like I said before Dany embodies many fantasy tropes, most notably the displaced ruler who is destined to reclaim their throne. If we judge the characters based on their actions and ability to effectively rule - Dany isn't near the top of the list on who I would want as monarch of Westeros. She not only has shown to be a poor leader, but she shares that same sense of entitlement that Viserys had the the throne belongs to her. Dany needs to come to the realization that she needs to earn her throne by being a good leader.

And I don't generally accept the "she's a young girl" argument because Dany showed she could effectively rule her Khalasar, but when things got complicated in the slave cities things all fell apart. Dany regressed throughout Dance and I feel like she's in a place where improvement will be at the forced hand of Martin.

[Moriath]

Originally Posted by Lord Godric

I just think that the only reason people view Dany has a good option for queen is the nature of the story itself. Like I said before Dany embodies many fantasy tropes, most notably the displaced ruler who is destined to reclaim their throne.

Well, we can't be sure what Martin has planned for her. She could die in the next book for all we know. But in my view, Dany does not embody that trope. Viserys did. He lived for that dream and he fell short. Dany, on the other hand, is first of all female. We don't get so many female heroines destined to reclaim the throne in their own rights, at least not in mainstream fiction. She starts out as the prize for Drogo; she's her brother's most valuable possession and Drogo is the most successful warrior of his people. Later on, when she is pregnant, she is seen as the mother of a son destined to do great things - again, not a heroine, the mother of a hero. And then, only when the men who are in charge of her life and who define her are dead, only then does she become an agent in her own right. I wouldn't mind seeing Dany as queen because she already subverted many fantasy tropes.

[DeliciousMoon]

Originally Posted by Lord Godric

I just think that the only reason people view Dany has a good option for queen is the nature of the story itself. Like I said before Dany embodies many fantasy tropes, most notably the displaced ruler who is destined to reclaim their throne.

If the only trope you're talking about is her being a displaced ruler to reclaim the thrones then wouldn't

Spoiler: show

Aegon be the stereotypical one here? He's a man and his claim is better than hers.

Stannis also believes the throne is his by rights and was taken from him.

[quote[If we judge the characters based on their actions and ability to effectively rule - Dany isn't near the top of the list on who I would want as monarch of Westeros. She not only has shown to be a poor leader, but she shares that same sense of entitlement that Viserys had the the throne belongs to her. Dany needs to come to the realization that she needs to earn her throne by being a good leader. [/quote]
In her inner dialogue it's clear she wants whats best for the people she's ruling over, and her actions do show it often:

Spoiler: show

her marriage, locking up her dragons, her children so no more children will die because of them, going out to help the sick...

I can't imagine Viserys doing any of this. He wanted power over people and it didn't seem like much else. Dany and Viseys weren't written to show how similar they were to each other either. Dany was the Dragon, Viserys was not.

[Lord Godric]

Originally Posted by Moriath

And then, only when the men who are in charge of her life and who define her are dead, only then does she become an agent in her own right. I wouldn't mind seeing Dany as queen because she already subverted many fantasy tropes.

And look how horrible of a leader she has been since then She nearly killed her entire Khalasar in the Red Waste, then decided to free slaves in the Slaver Cities without ever thinking of the consequences and helped in making matters ever more cruel and has now settled them in a city that not only is rebelling but facing an outside force and deadly diseases.

Originally Posted by DeliciousMoon

If the only trope you're talking about is her being a displaced ruler to reclaim the thrones

It isn't. I think Dany embodies many traditional fantasy tropes, and I don't buy the fact that because she's a woman tropes don't apply.

then wouldn't

Spoiler: show

Aegon be the stereotypical one here? He's a man and his claim is better than hers.

Spoiler: show

No, because Aegon is an imposter, not a real Targaryen.

Stannis also believes the throne is his by rights and was taken from him.

But he was not of a dynasty that had the throne usurped from him. Stannis never had the throne, he just thinks that he should have gotten it. I wouldn't call Stannis a traditional fantasy hero (or heroine) trope. He meets almost none of the qualifications.

If there was another male character which I had to say also embodies traditional fantasy tropes I would say it is Jon.

In her inner dialogue it's clear she wants whats best for the people she's ruling over, and her actions do show it often:

Spoiler: show

her marriage, locking up her dragons, her children so no more children will die because of them, going out to help the sick...

I can't imagine Viserys doing any of this. He wanted power over people and it didn't seem like much else. Dany and Viseys weren't written to show how similar they were to each other either. Dany was the Dragon, Viserys was not.

She's trying, but she's not succeeding, which was my point about "effectively ruling." Dany very much has been ineffectively ruling since Drogo died which I quickly went over above in a reply to Moriath. And while Dany may be trying to make things better for "her children" she really hasn't. In fact, for many of them she has made life worse. We also have never seen Dany get over the sense of entitlement to the Iron Throne that Viserys also had, and she has rejected Barristan's attempts to teach her things about Westeros. She just has not proven she's a good leader yet, and with time running out I don't see her genuinely becoming a good leader.