General 'What If...?' Thread

[wolfbrother]

Originally Posted by meesha1971

Have to disagree on that. The prerequisite traits for Slytherin would make that person incapable of such things simply because those traits would make them not want to do such things, IMO. From what we are shown, Slytherin traits are self serving - it comes down to achieving personal greatness and being willing to use any means to get what you want. That does not make them automatically evil or incapable of doing something good, but it does make them very focused on themselves and what is best for them individually so when they do something good it would most likely be due to their being some benefit to themselves in it - or the result of feeling personally wronged as we see with characters like Regulus, Snape, and Narcissa. Harry did not belong in Slytherin because his greater concern was for others rather than himself, IMO. Harry's achievments and successes stem from his concern for others - his innate nobility. He wouldn't have done any of those things without that trait, IMO.

I see self serving as doing what you want to do not that you were some sort of a narcissist. I don't have a problem imagining a Slytherin going to rescue his friend even at personal risk. They weren't cowards who were afraid of death. I don't have a problem imagining a Slytherin seeing his parents in the Mirror if he'd never known them. IMO ambition doesn't mean glory and riches at the cost of everything else, just a desire for personal achievement at some level.

To put it another way (I hope it makes sense), I see House traits affecting your approach to your goals, not your goals itself.

I didn't say make peace with - I said bargain with. There is a difference. Bargaining to save his own life would not mean he made peace with Voldemort - it would simply mean that he did not want to die. As a Slytherin, Harry's primary concern would have been saving his own life - not protecting others, IMO. The fact that he had a fragment of Voldermort's soul inside him gave him something to bargain with - particularly after the other Horcruxes had been destroyed - because his death would mean that Voldemort could be killed. Voldemort could not be killed as long as Harry was alive.

In this case, IMO it is much the same. Harry is trying to come up with some sort of compromise with Voldemort, thereby letting Voldemort live.

I don't think being Slytherin meant that you wanted to live at all cost. IMO it meant that they would go to great lengths to achieve their objectives. If Harry was determined to bring Voldemort down, he would done everything he could to bring that about even if it meant his own death.

That was the significance of the prophecy. It did not mean that Harry had to be the one to kill Voldemort or that he was the only one who could. The prophecy meant that Harry had to die in order for someone else to kill Voldemort. The actual threat to Voldemort was Harry's death. I think Voldemort would have realized that if he had discovered that Harry was a Horcrux - just as Harry did. Once he had realized that, he would have gone to great lengths to protect Harry rather than trying to kill him because he would have known that killing Harry could potentially enable someone else to kill him.

This is actually a win-win for Voldemort and not so much of a bargaining chip for Harry. The loss of a horcrux with Harry's death is meaningless because he could make another one. However, now he would have absolutely no fear when dealing with Harry because he knows Harry is acting as a horcrux for him.

[merrymarge]

I know a lot of people believe Harry was born in Godric's Hollow, but really, he was born at st. Mungo's. Lily would definately want her baby born in a hospital, not at home. Unless there was immediate danger of Voldemort attacking them. If the prophecy was made before Harry was born, and the Fidelius Charm was put on the house a week before the Potters were killed, I think that allowed Harry to be born at St. Mungo's. As for James and Lily living in a small house, I wonder if Lily would want a large house. She was probably used to a cottage size house. maybe shared a bedroom with Petunia. We don't know if Lily would turn down a house-elf. She would treat a house-elf like a Muggle servant.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

I know a lot of people believe Harry was born in Godric's Hollow, but really, he was born at st. Mungo's. Lily would definately want her baby born in a hospital, not at home. Unless there was immediate danger of Voldemort attacking them. If the prophecy was made before Harry was born, and the Fidelius Charm was put on the house a week before the Potters were killed, I think that allowed Harry to be born at St. Mungo's.

While I agree with the statement that a lot of people believe Harry was born in Godric's Hollow, we actually don't know if he was born at St. Mungo's either. There is some question in my mind about how active Lily was during her pregnancy and how long she participated in Order activities leading to a possible surprise birth somewhere. I also think it's a possibility that Harry might have been a preemie since he is described as small and skinny, though how much of this is possibily indicative of his being born prematurely and how much is from the Dursleys nearly starving him is hard to tell.

As for James and Lily living in a small house, I wonder if Lily would want a large house. She was probably used to a cottage size house. maybe shared a bedroom with Petunia.

In SWM Petunia discovers that Lily and Snape have been sneaking in her room when Lily mistakenly brings up Dumbledore's letter which leads me to think they had separate rooms. Otherwise Petunia might have said sneaking in her things rather than her room.

I agree that Lily might find it uncomfortable to suddenly live in a large house as she would likely be the one keeping it up (James never came off as the type to be handy with the homemaking spells). There's also the pragmatic side of it in that they were meant to be in hiding so purchasing and moving into a huge, ostentatious house, even if it would soon be invisble, seems rather odd.

We don't know if Lily would turn down a house-elf. She would treat a house-elf like a Muggle servant.

We're never told or led to believe that Lily would ever have the opportunity to turn down the use of a house elf. We're also never told James's family had one in the first place and if they did it might have been just as old as his parents and died before Lily and James were married and thinking of buying a house in which they could employ a house elf.

[StarryVeil]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

I know a lot of people believe Harry was born in Godric's Hollow, but really, he was born at st. Mungo's. Lily would definately want her baby born in a hospital, not at home.

We don't really have any canon to think so. In DH, Dumbledore clearly states that Harry was born in the village of Godric's Hollow - which suggests to me that he was actually physically born there, not just brought there after being born somewhere else. Here's the exact quote:

King's Cross, DH “The Cloak, as you know now, traveled down through the ages, father to son, mother to daughter, right down to Ignotus’s last living descendant, who was born, as Ignotus was, in the village of Godric’s Hollow.”

Also, considering the fact that the Potters were lying low, a St. Mungo's Hospital birth wouldn't have been the greatest idea, IMO. Voldemort could very easily have had Death Eaters stationed there. Yes, Harry wasn't the specific target of the prophecy as of yet, but he was one of two potential candidates. Lily and James knew their unborn child was potentially marked and wouldn't have wanted to draw more attention than necessary to his birth - especially since he was born on exactly the day the the "seventh month died", as phrased in the prophecy.

I always got the impression that Harry was born in either a small hospital in Godric's Hollow or Lily had a home birth with the help of, I don't know, a midwife or something. Bascially, a Godric's Hollow birth.

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

There is some question in my mind about how active Lily was during her pregnancy and how long she participated in Order activities leading to a possible surprise birth somewhere.

Well, according to the HP Lexicon, James and Lily went into hiding as soon as she became pregnant. Here's the page: What really happened on the night James and Lily were killed? Of course, the Lexicon is fan-created so it may have mistakes, but IMO, they did go into hiding the moment she became pregnant. Considering that her job was the wizarding equivalent of a soldier, I don't see her remaining on the job while she was pregnant.

I also think DD must have told them to go into hiding the moment he heard about them being pregnant. He'd heard the prophecy some time in July/August and so he must have known to keep an eye out for the couples who'd defied Voldemort thrice. For the child to be born at the end of July, he knew the that Lily and/or Alice would have to become pregnant around late October or early November. Once that happened, DD's suspicions were confirmed and I think that's when he asked both couples to go into hiding. JMO, of course.

[merrymarge]

They were in hiding for nine months? That's a long time. If Harry was born at home, a Healer would probably come to Lily.
I just don't think Harry was really at risk until after he was born. But I guess it will be long time before we find out.

[leckleck]

The general what if I've always had: What if Lily and James Potter had survived, as well as Harry?! I mean, it would never have happened, but they would be an incredibly famous family.. Three people that had survived his attack. This could contribute negatively and positively. For one, it could get to their heads... this, especially in Lily's case, seems very unlikely, but you never know! And second, Voldemort's plot to kill them all would be much worse, I would think, what with three targets. He could manipulate them like puppets, and end up with a horrible plan.
A very small what if: What if Hedwig had survived? I always picture JK Rowling sort of awkwardly incorporating what was happening to Hedwig as Harry was fighting to find the horcruxes. It really made me understand why she took her out, but I still wonder occasionally.
More what ifs: What if James Potter hadn't bullied Severus? What if Albus Dumbledore hadn't dragged Harry to find the supposed horcrux?
MAJOR WHAT IF, TO ME: What if Harry had left Draco Malfoy to die? Because if Narcissa Malfoy had asked Harry if Draco was alright, and Harry told the truth, saying he was dead.. she would most likely have told Voldy the truth as well, right? And if Harry had lied, and Narcissa had lied to Voldy, and then discovered he was dead, would she have tried to kill Harry herself? This is just a major thing i've been wondering about..

[StarryVeil]

Originally Posted by leckleck

What if Lily and James Potter had survived, as well as Harry?!

I think they would have been a very happy, prosperous family. Harry might have been more confident; that bit of arrogance that's already there in him in canon might have been more pronounced; he might have been less averse to depending on others; and he might also have been less intuitively understanding of others' plights. But I think his other general qualities (bravery, compassion, sense of fairness, saving-people-thing ) would have remained.

The most interesting question that this 'What if?' brings up, I think, is, would Harry have been drawn to Ron as a friend so quickly and strongly if Harry had also come from a happy, loving family? In the books we see that the things that mainly drew Harry to Ron were Ron's huge, warm family and his sense of humor - both of which were majorly lacking in Harry's life. But, had James and Lily survived, Harry wouldn't have been lacking in either. How would his friendship with Ron have developed in that case?

What if James Potter hadn't bullied Severus?

I would call it a 'mutual enmity' actually. But if their enmity hadn't existed, I think Snape would have been less vehement in his dislike of James. Other than that, I don't think his attitude towards him would have been very different from what we see in the books. He was jealous of James's Quidditch skills and general popularity - that would have remained. He was jealous of Lily's attraction to James - that would also have remained. And, ultimately, he, IMO, would have hated James anyway for "taking Lily away from him". If Snape had been of a more forgiving nature, there could have been the possibility that he might have asked Voldemort to spare James too. If that had happened, James's death would have provided Lily and Harry with a protection so Harry could have been raised by his mother. But, anyway, I don't see Snape asking Voldemort to save James under any circumstances. So I guess my answer to you question is: IMO, there wouldn't have been a lot of significant changes in the story had James and Snape not shared an enmity.

What if Harry had left Draco Malfoy to die? Because if Narcissa Malfoy had asked Harry if Draco was alright, and Harry told the truth, saying he was dead.. she would most likely have told Voldy the truth as well, right? And if Harry had lied, and Narcissa had lied to Voldy, and then discovered he was dead, would she have tried to kill Harry herself?

He wouldn't be Harry if he hadn't saved Draco.

But if Draco had somehow died at the castle and Harry knew about it, I think Harry might have lied to Narcissa. It's harsh and it would have been hard for him to do it but, by that time in the book, I think Harry had realized that there was some wisdom in the motto "For the greater good". It wasn't something he would have followed all the time, but he understood that principles had to be laid aside in some dire circumstances in order to work towards a good long-term goal. In order to safely get himself back to the castle where he had the reinforcements necessary to finish Voldemort off, he would have told this lie to Narcissa, I think.

[HufflePuff137]

Question: If Snape had married Lily, would he have wanted kids? He was really nasty to most of the students, but perhaps it was because he'd become bitter and cynical?...

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by leckleck

What if Lily and James Potter had survived, as well as Harry?!

Originally Posted by StarryVeil

I think they would have been a very happy, prosperous family. Harry might have been more confident; that bit of arrogance that's already there in him in canon might have been more pronounced; he might have been less averse to depending on others; and he might also have been less intuitively understanding of others' plights. But I think his other general qualities (bravery, compassion, sense of fairness, saving-people-thing ) would have remained.

I kind of disagree. A little bit.

I think they would have become a very close-knit family and I think James and Lily would have tried to make the most of their situation but I also think that their parental insticts and knowing that Voldemort had almost gotten them once and could come back and get them again (as I believe Dumbledore would have warned them his return was likely if not inevitable) they might very well have become overbearing parents, the kind that won't let Harry out of their sight, are constantly worried about him when he's away from them... If they had had more children, I think Harry would become annoyed about being babied and fussed over because he's the one Voldemort is after and he would certainly realize that he's treated slightly differently than his siblings.

I think they would attempt to be a normal family but I do think there would be an anxiety hanging over them that Harry would pick up on and perhaps, as he grew up, come to resent. Harry might have turned out a little more rebellious than he was in the books

Originally Posted by HufflePuff137

Question: If Snape had married Lily, would he have wanted kids? He was really nasty to most of the students, but perhaps it was because he'd become bitter and cynical?...

I'm sure if Lily expressed a desire to have kids he would have given her kids. I also think that if Snape had kids he'd love them even though he might continue to not like "kids" in general - like Miranda from Sex and the City when she comments on her own baby "I don't like any children by my own." - and he would love them as much and as well as he knew how to express that love. he's a pretty reserved guy for the most part (he does lose it on occasion) so he would probably be fairly reserved with his kids.

I wouldn't describe Snape as being a loving father figure, I'd describe him more as probably a strict parent, maybe like a tiger mom - only as a dad.

[wolfbrother]

Originally Posted by HufflePuff137

Question: If Snape had married Lily, would he have wanted kids? He was really nasty to most of the students, but perhaps it was because he'd become bitter and cynical?...

I think so. If Snape did end up with Lily, I think he would have been quite different in nature to the one we see in the books. I think the part of the reason why he became so grouchy with kids is because he wound up dealing with them every day.

[mirrormere]

Originally Posted by wolfbrother

I think so. If Snape did end up with Lily, I think he would have been quite different in nature to the one we see in the books. I think the part of the reason why he became so grouchy with kids is because he wound up dealing with them every day.

But all of Slytherin house liked him--he treated them very differently. I suspect he considered Slytherins his family and favored them for that reason.

[wolfbrother]

Snape let the Slytherins get away with a lot but I do not think the Slytherins thought of Snape as someone they could push around.

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by wolfbrother

Snape let the Slytherins get away with a lot but I do not think the Slytherins thought of Snape as someone they could push around.

As I recall it wasn't so much that Prof. Snape allowed the Slyths to get away with anything when he was their head of house, rather that they made sure he didn't see them do anything, like attacking Harry.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by HufflePuff137

Question: If Snape had married Lily, would he have wanted kids? He was really nasty to most of the students, but perhaps it was because he'd become bitter and cynical?...

I'm sure Voldemort would have wanted him to help produce the next generation of Death Eaters, so yeah, I think so.

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

I think they would attempt to be a normal family but I do think there would be an anxiety hanging over them that Harry would pick up on and perhaps, as he grew up, come to resent. Harry might have turned out a little more rebellious than he was in the books

I agree that they would try to keep things normal for the sake of their family. I'm not sure how difficult it would be. However, I don't think they would single Harry out as different from their other children. Yes, they would know that Harry was Voldemort's primary target. However, they would also know that the whole family was at risk, that they were all targets.

I'm sure if Lily expressed a desire to have kids he would have given her kids. I also think that if Snape had kids he'd love them even though he might continue to not like "kids" in general - like Miranda from Sex and the City when she comments on her own baby "I don't like any children by my own." - and he would love them as much and as well as he knew how to express that love. he's a pretty reserved guy for the most part (he does lose it on occasion) so he would probably be fairly reserved with his kids.

I wouldn't describe Snape as being a loving father figure, I'd describe him more as probably a strict parent, maybe like a tiger mom - only as a dad.

Or perhaps he would resent it that someone else had Lily's attention. That Lily's love was focused on someone else and he no longer had her "all to himself". It would be consistent with what is shown of him.

Originally Posted by wolfbrother

I think so. If Snape did end up with Lily, I think he would have been quite different in nature to the one we see in the books. I think the part of the reason why he became so grouchy with kids is because he wound up dealing with them every day.

And as a father? He would have to deal with kids every day, until they reached the age of eleven. In any case, Snape's misanthropic and anti-social nature was not a product of his teaching career (rather than a stint in Azkaban). It was something he displayed from a young age.

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

As I recall it wasn't so much that Prof. Snape allowed the Slyths to get away with anything when he was their head of house, rather that they made sure he didn't see them do anything, like attacking Harry.

I think it's more likely that Snape had selective hearing and vision when it came to the things his Slytherin students did.

[jonpb70]

I have always wondered why,at the end of GOF,DD didn't borrow harrys memory,put it in the pensieve and let fudge see for himself? how would that have changed the storyline?

[wolfbrother]

Originally Posted by FurryDice

And as a father? He would have to deal with kids every day, until they reached the age of eleven. In any case, Snape's misanthropic and anti-social nature was not a product of his teaching career (rather than a stint in Azkaban). It was something he displayed from a young age.

Dealing with one or two kids daily is different from dealing with a bunch of unknown kids in school. Plus, he'd be taking care of them from the time they were babies. Becoming a parent can change people.

I think Snape would have been a reserved guy as a parent and not someone who would show a lot of affection.

Originally Posted by FurryDice

I think it's more likely that Snape had selective hearing and vision when it came to the things his Slytherin students did.

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

As I recall it wasn't so much that Prof. Snape allowed the Slyths to get away with anything when he was their head of house, rather that they made sure he didn't see them do anything, like attacking Harry.

I think it would have been a bit of both.

Originally Posted by jonpb70

I have always wondered why,at the end of GOF,DD didn't borrow harrys memory,put it in the pensieve and let fudge see for himself? how would that have changed the storyline?

Memories can be tampered so Fudge would not have believed it either.

I wonder why Dumbledore didn't try to get the memory from Harry. Recollection of an event is always less reliable than being able to actually see it.

[Ginny_Spinner]

I would think that Snape would have punished them for attacking Harry if he saw them do it, but rather lightly. He stayed to protect Harry, but he wouldn't stand up for him easily if at all.

[merrymarge]

What if Voldemort managed to steal the Sorting hat? Could that be made into a horcrux?

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

What if Voldemort managed to steal the Sorting hat? Could that be made into a horcrux?

I think it's possible. Any physical object (including living beings) can be turned into a horcrux, it seems. If he had done that, he would have hidden it just as he did with his other horcruxes.

Dumbledore believes that he initially applied for the job at Hogwarts in order to explore the secrets of the castle. I think Dumbledore mentioned a suspicion that he may have wanted to look for other artefacts belonging to the founders. If Dippet had given him the job, Riddle would have had relatively easy access to the Head's office, from which he could have taken the Hat when he felt ready to take off.

[merrymarge]

What if the Sorting Hat is already a horcrux from Slytherin?