The Chosen One

[JMUpotterfan]

Hello Fellow Potterheads,

This thread will examine your thoughts on "the chosen one." To me this title has two meanings. 1. Harry is literally "the chosen one" because Voldy chose him. 2. Harry is the peoples "chosen one" because they feel only he can defeat Voldy.

The idea of "the chosen one" brings up another idea. How would this series had played out if Voldy chose Neville? Or for that matter, how differently would things had been if he went after both Harry and Neville?

It is my opinion that Harry took on the hero role rather early, while Neville played it very low key. But in the end Neville came into his own. We began to see a stronger side of Neville (especially in DH).

I know Harry is supposed to be our hero, and I do love him; but sometimes it bothers me that people forget about Neville. This story could easily be his as well. What do you think?

[MoscowKrum]

Neville would have been confident a lot earlier.

It's hard to tell what would happen if Voldy went after
both boys. However, it's possible Voldemort would
become Vapormort, no matter what happened.

[merrymarge]

Harry wondered about this in OoTP. He wasn't sure if Alice Longbottom would have tried to save Neville.
Voldemort only became Vapormort because of Lily sacrificing herself for Harry. If Alice did the same thing for Neville, then yes he would have become Vapormort. Otherwise, Neville would have been dead. Actually, what would have happened if Voldemort went after both boys, but went to the Longbottoms first, instead of the Potters. we don't know if that was his plan, to go after Neville after killing Harry. Voldemort never expected Lily to sacrifice herself. He forgot about that old magic.

[EXPELIAMUS]

Voldemort: Have at you, Neville!
Alice: Nope. *sacrifices herself*
Vapor-mort: Blast! *floats to Harry's crib*. Up and about, Harry!
Lily: He's sleeping, go away. *sacrifices herself*
Voicey-mort: I'll get you both for this! Great, I'm just a voice with no body or spirit.

*several years later*

Harry and Neville: Feel the wrath of the scarheads!
*death eaters retreat forever*
Voicey-mort: Hey where are you going, get those two brats!
Harry and Neville: Mute-ify!
Mort: ?
Albus and Severus: Congratulations, everyone is immune from his voice. Good job guys.
Harry and Neville: Recognize!

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by EXPELIAMUS

Voldemort: Have at you, Neville!
Alice: Nope. *sacrifices herself*
Vapor-mort: Blast! *floats to Harry's crib*. Up and about, Harry!
Lily: He's sleeping, go away. *sacrifices herself*
Voicey-mort: I'll get you both for this! Great, I'm just a voice with no body or spirit.

*several years later*

Harry and Neville: Feel the wrath of the scarheads!
*death eaters retreat forever*
Voicey-mort: Hey where are you going, get those two brats!
Harry and Neville: Mute-ify!
Mort: ?
Albus and Severus: Congratulations, everyone is immune from his voice. Good job guys.
Harry and Neville: Recognize!

Very amusing, however, Neville's mother just standing in front of him wouldn't have saved his life. Remember the only reason Voldemort told Harry's mother to step aside was because Severus Snape had asked him to save Lily. That's the only thing that set up the ancient magic that saved Harry's life and turned Voldemort into a bodyless vapor. Funny how people forget that little detail.

[merrymarge]

I thought about it, I just didn't think it mattered. I thought Voldemort wanted Lily to step aside to have a better chance to kill Harry.

[ShadowSonic]

For the Blood Protection to work, you have to willingly sacrifice yourself to save another even if you could have saved yourself.

Truth is, it was all a series of coincidences that led to Harry becoming the Chosen One rather than some kind of "destiny".

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by merrymarge

I thought about it, I just didn't think it mattered. I thought Voldemort wanted Lily to step aside to have a better chance to kill Harry.

Oh believe me, it mattered. He made the gesture of saving Lily for Snape but he lost patience with her! Without Snape's request he'd have barged in and AK'd her with no conversation just like he did James.

[Peakes]

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

He made the gesture of saving Lily for Snape but he lost patience with her! Without Snape's request he'd have barged in and AK'd her with no conversation just like he did James.

Not that I am disagreeing with you, it's a valid interpretation I suppose, but is there any evidence to back this up?

It certainly doesn't resonate with my understanding, and I can't see anything in The Prince's Tale or The Flaw in the Plan that would back this up. It seems to me simply a matter of the infant Harry being the target, not Lily.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by JMUpotterfan

How would this series had played out if Voldy chose Neville?
...
It is my opinion that Harry took on the hero role rather early, while Neville played it very low key. It is my opinion that Harry took on the hero role rather early, while Neville played it very low key. But in the end Neville came into his own. We began to see a stronger side of Neville (especially in DH).

I think the series would have been very interesting if Voldemort had chosen Neville instead of Harry. I don't think it would have been a straight role-reversal where James and Lily would have been tortured to insanity and thusly would be traumatized and unconfident and Neville would be raised to be a more confident, up-starty type boy. It's all a matter of how you think the change in circumstances would have affected Harry and Neville. I personally think Harry would still be the more confident of the two, the more natural leader and I still think Neville would be timid and unconfident - his grandmother was certainly a little overbearing and put a lot of pressure on Neville, I think he just had a softer temperament than Harry and was less equipped to handle such pressure at such a young age. I also think Harry's combativeness and independance had a lot to do with the fact that he was raised by the Dursleys so personality wise I think the boys would have turned out pretty similarly to how they are in the series.

The big question is when would Neville really begin to come into his own if he were the hero of the series? It would have to happen sooner than in DH in order for the reader to really believe his journey. I actually think Neville as the hero would be an extremely good read since he does have an almost crippling insecurity and very little self-confidence - he would make a very good flawed hero to me - and his journey wouldn't only be about defeating Voldemort but also overcoming his own fears and insecurities.

Or for that matter, how differently would things had been if he went after both Harry and Neville?

I think Neville's insecurities and Harry's more independant, forceful personality would have turned the series into a very similar one as to the one written.

Originally Posted by Peakes

Not that I am disagreeing with you, it's a valid interpretation I suppose, but is there any evidence to back this up?

I think it's more implied than "evidenced." Without Snape pleading with Voldemort, Voldemort very well might have just blasted Lily aside without bothering to give her a choice. To me, Voldemort was pandering to Snape - he condescended to give Lily the choice so as to placate Snape but to me there really wasn't a choice; either way Harry was going to die and there's the possibility that either way Lily might have died. Once Harry was dead Voldemort wouldn't want a scorned mother coming after him, he might have done away with Lily right after he finished with Harry had she stepped aside.

It's actually interesting to me that Voldemort has enough, what? Respect for Snape? that he doesn't just blast Lily aside and tell Snape he gave her the choice, he does actually honor Snape's request and pays the ultimate price for it.

[Dobbythefreeelf]

I have thought about how it would have been with Neville instead of Harry. I realized, though this would be an interesting story, it might completely vanish Snape's role. He would just be another teacher. One of my favorite parts of DH was the Prince's Tale and that would be unimportant. Harry's parents would probably be alive and he would know about magic from the start. Yes, Harry wouldn't be so important but Neville is timid and insecure and the story might have turned out a lot differently leading up until the seventh book.

[Peakes]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

I think it's more implied than "evidenced." Without Snape pleading with Voldemort, Voldemort very well might have just blasted Lily aside without bothering to give her a choice.

What I meant to ask is, did he give her a choice? Or was the choice made by her to stand her ground and take the curse?

Not that it matters to me, as I believe that the protection conferred by Lily's sacrifice would have applied anyway, being given a choice in the matter by Voldemort would not change that one way or the other.

Now, here's one for you... why didn't James' sacrifice protect Lily?

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by Peakes

What I meant to ask is, did he give her a choice? Or was the choice made by her to stand her ground and take the curse?

He gave her the choice, presumably, because Snape asked him to (spare her, not give her a choice). (To me, the bigger question is what was it about Snape that made Voldemort acquiesce to Snape's request even in this way?) Voldemort's words of "Stand aside" technically did give Lily the choice because she had the choice to do as Voldemort asked or not and she chose not to.

Now, here's one for you... why didn't James' sacrifice protect Lily?

James wasn't given that "choice," he was killed without any sort of communication between them, Voldemort didn't stop and ask if he would stand aside, he simply blasted him aside. It's the choice part of the equation that meant James's death couldn't save Lily and/or Harry.

[Th3Phoenix89]

I love Neville's role in DH he became so brave and confident

[potter_gleek]

One difference if Neville has been 'The Chosen One' would be that he'd grow up knowing about Hogwarts and Magic. Assuming his Grandmother wasn't killed by Voldemort, presumably she would have taken him in and brought him up (as she does one Alice and Frank Longbottom are killed). I'm just guessing here but maybe if this had been the case Neville would have been better prepared than Harry as he would have had a working knowledge of magic and his Grandmother could teach him from a young age. He would also have been prepared for the fame he'd have to experience.

On the other hand growing up with so many expectation and admiration surrounding you may have either overwhelmed Neville or made him arrogant.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by MoscowKrum

Neville would have been confident a lot earlier.

Not necesarily.

Originally Posted by merrymarge

Voldemort never expected Lily to sacrifice herself. He forgot about that old magic.

He actually never knew about that magic.

Originally Posted by potter_gleek

One difference if Neville has been 'The Chosen One' would be that he'd grow up knowing about Hogwarts and Magic. Assuming his Grandmother wasn't killed by Voldemort, presumably she would have taken him in and brought him up (as she does one Alice and Frank Longbottom are killed). I'm just guessing here but maybe if this had been the case Neville would have been better prepared than Harry as he would have had a working knowledge of magic and his Grandmother could teach him from a young age. He would also have been prepared for the fame he'd have to experience.

It's proven in the books though that simply knowing about magic from birth doesn't automatically give one a working knowledge of magic. It seems that virtually everyone enters hogwarts on the same level, very few of them have really begun to consciously control their magic (we actually only have two examples of conscious control of magic in children who have yet to go to Hogwarts: Voldemort and Lily). Neville would have known about magic, yes, but that doesn't mean he was any better at is than those who knew nothing about magic; Harry and Hermione both knew nothing about magic until months before they went to Hogwarts and both seem more confident with magic than Neville was until DH. Harry might have struggled but it was nothing to the way Neville struggled.

On the other hand growing up with so many expectation and admiration surrounding you may have either overwhelmed Neville or made him arrogant.

I don't think that Neville knowing of his destiny would make him any more confident or prepared for his fame. I don't think it would have made him arrogant either, I think it would make him that much more self-conscious and insecure knowing now that he's not just learning magic for his own sake, he has to learn it and learn it well enough to defeat the greatest dark wizard in history. That's a head trip even for an adult let alone an eleven-year-old.

To me this is a question of Harry and Neville's core personality traits. Throughout the books, Neville is crippled by his insecurities and lack of confidence - and that's in the face of living up to only his grandmother's expectations of him, not the entire wizarding worlds! He only really becomes spurred into action when the mass breakout of Azkaban happens in OOTP. Then he really begins cracking down and working hard at his defensive skills. I still think something major like that would have to occur in order to spur Neville into action if the series were his not harry's.

[potter_gleek]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

I don't think that Neville knowing of his destiny would make him any more confident or prepared for his fame. I don't think it would have made him arrogant either, I think it would make him that much more self-conscious and insecure knowing now that he's not just learning magic for his own sake, he has to learn it and learn it well enough to defeat the greatest dark wizard in history. That's a head trip even for an adult let alone an eleven-year-old.

But I always thought that his self-consciousness and lack of confidence came from the expectations his Grandmother put upon him based on his parents. Had he defeated Voldemort as a baby She, presumably, wouldn't have expected so much of him and would have allowed him to grow as an individual and build his own confidence.