Albus S. Potter - Slytherin or Gryffindor?

[AccioDoubleStuf]

I don't think he'll be in either. I think the new Golden Trio (Albus, Scorpius and Rose) will all be in Ravenclaw. I know Harry could have gone in either of the four houses, so Al being in Ravenclaw is a definite possibility. Draco, as annoying as he can be, has showed he was smart throughout the HP series, he just made some really dumb decisions. I bet if he was raised different, he might have been a Ravenclaw. Now, it's a no-brainer why Rose has a chance in Ravenclaw, I bet Hermione almost got sorted there herself! But, yes all three will be in Ravenclaw in my mind!

[ccollinsmith]

Originally Posted by OldMotherCrow

I confess, I do not remember that bit of information from Pottermore. The new information from Rowling said that a Hat Stall was a Sorting that went on longer than five minutes-- apparently, the debate between the Hat and person taking a long time to resolve. I don't remember anything that said that only Hat Stalls get to choose. Did I miss something?

As far as I could tell, the Pottermore info indicated that the Hat chooses the best fit. If someone could fit into more than one House, the Hat can potentially be negotiated with (and if House placement is an authentic tie, the person would get to be the tie-breaker), but Neville argued with the Hat for 5 minutes and still could not get himself into Hufflepuff.

In other words, no amount of arguing or negotiating would get Al into Gryffindor if he does not fit in Gryffindor. If he would do well in more than one House, and one of those Houses is Gryffindor, then he would probably wind up in Gryffindor if that is where he would like to be. If he were an authentic Hat stall, he would be offered the choice point blank. If he belongs in Slytherin and not in any of the other Houses, then he will be in Slytherin, no matter how much he argues.

Harry's choice was taken into account because he was a good fit for multiple Houses. If Al is a good fit for only one House, he will be sorted into that House.

[OldMotherCrow]

Originally Posted by ccollinsmith

As far as I could tell, the Pottermore info indicated that the Hat chooses the best fit. If someone could fit into more than one House, the Hat can potentially be negotiated with (and if House placement is an authentic tie, the person would get to be the tie-breaker), but Neville argued with the Hat for 5 minutes and still could not get himself into Hufflepuff.

In other words, no amount of arguing or negotiating would get Al into Gryffindor if he does not fit in Gryffindor. If he would do well in more than one House, and one of those Houses is Gryffindor, then he would probably wind up in Gryffindor if that is where he would like to be. If he were an authentic Hat stall, he would be offered the choice point blank.

Rowling's information on Pottermore said that the Hat was "determined" to put Neville into Gryffindor-- so I think Neville did quite well, extending his case to a length of four minutes. Hermione preferred Gryffindor, which ended up being the House she got over Ravenclaw after a similarly long debate with the Hat. Neither were technically Hat Stalls, though, as the only criteria is for the Sorting to take at least five minutes for it to be a Hat Stall. Perhaps there is a timer built in that gives the student a choice after a certain passage of time has elapsed, but the information on the Sorting Hat and Hat Stalls never goes into such a thing that I know of.

I don't think it has to be a Hat Stall for student choice to come into it. I do agree that the student has to possess the attribute that would make them do well in a House they wanted to be in (which is something I don't think is actually very difficult; it is very possible in my mind to possess bravery, intelligence, ambition, and fairmindedness, many or all at once. I think it would be a rare student who could only ever fit in one House only). I don't see that Harry's information about student choice contradicts the Pottermore information about Hat Stalls at all.

[ccollinsmith]

Originally Posted by OldMotherCrow

Rowling's information on Pottermore said that the Hat was "determined" to put Neville into Gryffindor-- so I think Neville did quite well, extending his case to a length of four minutes. Hermione preferred Gryffindor, which ended up being the House she got over Ravenclaw after a similarly long debate with the Hat. Neither were technically Hat Stalls, though, as the only criteria is for the Sorting to take at least five minutes for it to be a Hat Stall. Perhaps there is a timer built in that gives the student a choice after a certain passage of time has elapsed, but the information on the Sorting Hat and Hat Stalls never goes into such a thing that I know of.

I don't think it has to be a Hat Stall for student choice to come into it. I do agree that the student has to possess the attribute that would make them do well in a House they wanted to be in (which is something I don't think is actually very difficult; it is very possible in my mind to possess bravery, intelligence, ambition, and fairmindedness, many or all at once. I think it would be a rare student who could only ever fit in one House only). I don't see that Harry's information about student choice contradicts the Pottermore information about Hat Stalls at all.

First, I don't think Harry's opinion contradicts the Pottermore info so much as it offers an incomplete understanding of the way the Hat works. Harry's comment is based on a sample of one (i.e., himself and his own personal experience). And his comment is often taken to mean that the student gets to tell the Hat where to put him/her and that the Hat will simply go along with it. Neville's experience shows that this is not true.

Second, I think we are just putting different emphases on the word "choice." When I responded to Dags' comment, I was using the word in the sense of the student actually getting to tell the Hat where he/she belongs (see above)... or being given a point-blank choice by the Hat. However, a point-blank choice ("do you want Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff"?) would seemingly occur only in the instance of a Hat Stall resulting in an authentic tie.

If I'm understanding you correctly, though, I think that you are using the word "choice" in the sense that the student's input is taken into account. Overall, I agree with you on that (as my previous post indicates). I also agree with you that most students would fit well into multiple Houses and that it would be a rare student who would fit well only into one. But for that hypothetical student, choice would not make a difference.

So I would argue that choice is not the final determinant. The Hat is. Choice may play a role, but if the Hat is determined to put a student into a specific House (as it was with Neville), then there is no amount of arguing that will get the student out of that House and into another.

Fair enough?

[Hes]

Time for a new version

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