Ginevra (Ginny) Weasley: Character Analysis

[ShadowSonic]

Originally Posted by TenderHooligan

This would've made no sense in the context of the Harry/Ginny romantic relationship.

It wouldn't have anything to really do with the Harry/Ginny relationship, simply her own role as a character within the series. The Harry/Ginny thing could still start up later but Ginny could've still been an important character without Harry/Ginny is all I'm saying.

And that wouldn't have just reduced Hermione's role, it would've changed her entire character. If she remained "boring but practical" throughout the entire series because Ginny and Luna already fulfilled these other roles, it would've really limited her character growth.

Most likely, but if the result is 3 important and well-developed female characters over the course of the entire series instead of just one then it's a fair trade.

[TenderHooligan]

Originally Posted by ShadowSonic

It wouldn't have anything to really do with the Harry/Ginny relationship, simply her own role as a character within the series. The Harry/Ginny thing could still start up later but Ginny could've still been an important character without Harry/Ginny is all I'm saying.

The importance of most characters was based a lot on whether or not Harry perceived them as important. 95% of the books are from his point of view. It's why Fred and George got a lot more page time than Percy; Harry played Quidditch with them and they were nice to him and liked him and he thought they were really funny. Percy was boring and bookish. Doesn't mean the twins were more important characters than Percy. Flitwick and Sprout weren't any less important than Slughorn or McGonagall, but McGonagall was Harry's Head of House and because she favored him a bit because of Quidditch so they had a more developed relationship. And Slughorn wanted Harry in the Slug Club and ended up having the memory Dumbledore needed so Harry focused on him a lot more than the average teacher.

Ginny wasn't made more important in books 3 and 4 because she wasn't especially important to Harry in those books outside of being a member of the Weasley family. And really, it's only book 3 where Ginny is a total background character. In GoF we see her developing friendship with Harry and the beginnings of her breaking out of her shyness.

[ShadowSonic]

Originally Posted by TenderHooligan

The importance of most characters was based a lot on whether or not Harry perceived them as important.
Ginny wasn't made more important in books 3 and 4 because she wasn't especially important to Harry in those books outside of being a member of the Weasley family.

Which is why I'm saying she JK COULD have made her more important to Harry as the "Action Girl" of the expanded group so he'd pay more (non-romantic) attention to her and thus make her a bigger part of the plots of PoA and GOF so by OOTP her joining the Quidditch team and the DA would be more organic growth than Harry suddenly noticing her again.

[TenderHooligan]

Making her the go-to 'action girl' wouldn't really solve that problem though. there really isn't any action in GoF for her to get in on. Harry has to do all the tasks alone and it wouldn't make much sense for Harry to go asking her for help when she's a year younger and infinitely less experienced in dealing with 'dark' matters or complex challenges.

I suppose she could've had a bigger presence in PoA, but I'm not sure how. Most of the action there came about from Harry's unauthorized visits to Hogsmeade (where Ginny wasn't allowed as a third year), Patronus training with Lupin (no reason to involve Ginny since even Ron and Hermione didn't get to participate, and the Time Turner stuff at the end, when she couldn't have taken Hermione's place as she (Hermione) was at the center of that plotline.

I suppose she could've been more involved with Hagrid and Buckbeak since we know she visited Hagrid during CoS and presumably likes him. But at the same time, she wasn't in Care of Magical Creatures so she wasn't really connected to that mess the same way the trio were.

Maybe I'm just not getting it. What sort of action do you wish Ginny would've gotten in on/taken Hermione's place in during books 3 & 4?

[ShadowSonic]

I'm thinking you and I are getting off-topic since this is about her character analysis and not "What If?" so we should move to PM.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by TenderHooligan

Making her the go-to 'action girl' wouldn't really solve that problem though. there really isn't any action in GoF for her to get in on. Harry has to do all the tasks alone and it wouldn't make much sense for Harry to go asking her for help when she's a year younger and infinitely less experienced in dealing with 'dark' matters or complex challenges.

I suppose she could've had a bigger presence in PoA, but I'm not sure how. Most of the action there came about from Harry's unauthorized visits to Hogsmeade (where Ginny wasn't allowed as a third year), Patronus training with Lupin (no reason to involve Ginny since even Ron and Hermione didn't get to participate, and the Time Turner stuff at the end, when she couldn't have taken Hermione's place as she (Hermione) was at the center of that plotline.

I suppose she could've been more involved with Hagrid and Buckbeak since we know she visited Hagrid during CoS and presumably likes him. But at the same time, she wasn't in Care of Magical Creatures so she wasn't really connected to that mess the same way the trio were.

Maybe I'm just not getting it. What sort of action do you wish Ginny would've gotten in on/taken Hermione's place in during books 3 & 4?

I agree. The story is presented from Harry's point of view so it wasn't really possible to incorporate Ginny into the trio's adventures in the first four books. She was a year younger so she wasn't even at Hogwarts during their first year and they wouldn't have any classes with her once she started since she was a year behind. Oliver Wood was happy with the Quidditch team he formed in PS/SS so he never held tryouts in COS or POA - and there was no Quidditch at all in GOF. Ginny wouldn't have been allowed to visit Hogsmeade until GOF - which was her third year - at which point, the trio used those visits to see Sirius in secret or Harry was hiding under his cloak because of all the flak he got about being entered into the tournament. The only believable interaction between Harry and Ginny in the first four books was during the time he spent at the Burrow, on the train to school, and occasionally seeing Ginny in the common room, Great Hall, and in the corridors or on the grounds between classes.

There really wasn't any way to work around that, IMO. Nor do I think Jo wanted to because I think it works a lot better for Harry to finally notice Ginny and start paying attention to her after his failed attempt to have a relationship with Cho. Ginny's crush on Harry causing her to be so shy and not act like herself when Harry was around was a deliberate choice Jo made to keep Ginny in the background until Harry was ready for that relationship, IMO.

[ShadowSonic]

What I'm suggesting is more or less abandoning/expanding the Trio concept into a larger group beyond just the three of them having adventures. Bring in Luna earlier (like CoS, her first year) and use Ginny to introduce her (as her only friend for a long time), and if Ginny can't be used then use Luna for things (she's supposed to be as smart as Hermione but in different ways) and Ginny is there via association.

I'm not saying "Have Harry/Ginny start earlier", I'm saying simply give Ginny more to do earlier in the series so we actually see her development instead of having it just happen behind-the-scenes until OOTP. Make her be more than "Harry's love interest" in the overall plot.

But I think this is straying from character analysis and more into "plot re-conceptualization".

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by ShadowSonic

What I'm suggesting is more or less abandoning/expanding the Trio concept into a larger group beyond just the three of them having adventures. Bring in Luna earlier (like CoS, her first year) and use Ginny to introduce her (as her only friend for a long time), and if Ginny can't be used then use Luna for things (she's supposed to be as smart as Hermione but in different ways) and Ginny is there via association.

I'm not saying "Have Harry/Ginny start earlier", I'm saying simply give Ginny more to do earlier in the series so we actually see her development instead of having it just happen behind-the-scenes until OOTP. Make her be more than "Harry's love interest" in the overall plot.

But I think this is straying from character analysis and more into "plot re-conceptualization".

I get what you're saying, but I wasn't actually talking about Harry and Ginny's romantic relationship - at least that's not the whole of it. I don't feel that would have worked at all because both Ginny and Luna were a year younger than the trio. Incorporating them into the trio's adventures wouldn't have been plausible in the earlier books because there was a separation created by the age difference. They were in different years so they had different classes, different schedules, and didn't see much of each other outside of brief moments in the common room or Great Hall or occasionally in between classes. Ginny and Luna would not have been allowed to go to Hogsmeade until GOF so they wouldn't have run into each other there. Harry didn't even meet Luna until OOTP because she wasn't in the same year or the same house so they had no classes together or common activities that would result in them crossing paths. Likewise, in the first four books, Harry had always sought out a private compartment with Ron and Hermione on the train. OOTP was the first time he wasn't able to sit with them and had to find someone else to sit with.

It's very similar to what we see with the twins being two years ahead of the trio at Hogwarts. They are occasionally present and do funny things, but they don't hang around with the trio or participate in their adventures. They don't sit with them on the train. The twins don't really get involved in the actual story until OOTP - the same as Ginny and Luna - at which point, staying at Grimmauld Place and the DA bridged the divide created by them being in different years at Hogwarts. Being in different years at school meant they ran in different circles and didn't hang out with each other until the circumstances with Voldemort put them in a position where they had to.

Personally, I find that to be the most realistic scenario. I would not have found it believable for Ron's younger sister to immediately be incorporated into his group of friends anymore than I would have found it believable for the twins to want Ron and his friends to hang around with them. What made that plausible was them spending the summer together at Grimmauld Place and the formation of the DA in OOTP, IMO.

I realize we are discussing "what if" scenarios, but I think it is relevant to Ginny's character development in terms of what was plausible and implausible. Basically, with the story being presented from Harry's point of view, I can't think of any plausible way that Jo could have made Ginny more prominent because that would require Ginny to be incorporated into her older brother's group of friends in spite of being a year behind them in school - which would not be believable at all, IMO.

That being said, I do think Ginny and Luna were both well developed characters in spite of that. Really, by the end, we know a great deal more about Ginny and Luna than we do about Hermione. Being a prominent character does not equal being a well developed character after all. Hermione may have been around Harry more often, but Harry never really bothered to learn much about Hermione as a person the way he did with Ginny and Luna, IMO.

[Moriath]

Well, since you are all realising that you are discussing what if scenarios instead of Ginny's character, I'd kindly ask you to follow through and stop doing it.

[Blue_Pikachu]

1) What is the significance of Ginny's position in her family (seventh child, only girl born in generations,etc.?
It made her a strong girl who could stand her ground (sometimes a little too much). She maybe got a bit spoiled as a child, but I think also 'bullied' by her brothers. She is also brave and witty in the sense of 'causing distraction' (in OotP, when Harry needs to speak to Sirius, it's Ginny and Luna who are helping him. I don't really see Hermione coming up with that idea.

2) On a few occasions, Ginny reacts strongly against people who anger her, such as Ron in the stairway and Smith at the Quidditch match. Is this a strength or a flaw?
I consider it as a huge flaw. It made me dislike the character of Ginny. She reacts in a very childish way while perfectly knowing how uncertain her brother is.

Originally Posted by cool_chick_div

While she was right in Half Blood Prince to call Ron out for being too overprotective she went way too far. I can't remember everything but I felt that her temper got the better of her and she stirred up Ron's insecurities about having a relationship and Hermione which eventually resulted in a lot of heartache for Hermione and Lavender.

². I don't believe Ron ever was in love with Lavender but was pleased to finally get some attention from a girl instead of the great Harry Potter. I believe it was mostly Ginny's fault that he responded the flirts of 'LavLav'.
Also the way she responded to Hermione when the latter was angry with Harry for using the spell 'Sectumsempra' irked me a lot.
I do think though she's the right girl for Harry because of her temper. Harry needs some girl who Harry can be 'afraid' of.

3) What do you think of Ginny's leadership role in the DA in DH? Do you think she would have been a good leader?
I do think she's a good leader, she's smart and she can perfectly stand her ground. At the same time she's also kind and defends people who are considered weird.

[HRW]

I am not even too sure why but I really don't like Ginny's character. Something about her character has always irked me.

Originally Posted by Blue_Pikachu

1) What is the significance of Ginny's position in her family (seventh child, only girl born in generations,etc.?
It made her a strong girl who could stand her ground (sometimes a little too much). She maybe got a bit spoiled as a child, but I think also 'bullied' by her brothers. She is also brave and witty in the sense of 'causing distraction' (in OotP, when Harry needs to speak to Sirius, it's Ginny and Luna who are helping him. I don't really see Hermione coming up with that idea.

I really don't think she gets bullied at all by her brothers. Being the youngest and a girl Weasley probably saved her from from that. I think Ron was at the end of most of the pranks the twins pulled off along with Percy.

[MasterOfDeath]

Originally Posted by HRW

I am not even too sure why but I really don't like Ginny's character. Something about her character has always irked me.



I really don't think she gets bullied at all by her brothers. Being the youngest and a girl Weasley probably saved her from from that. I think Ron was at the end of most of the pranks the twins pulled off along with Percy.

Well, she does say that her brothers tease her in COS. She wrote to Tom about it in her (his) diary.

[ShadowSonic]

Tease her how? Could be friendly, brotherly stuff that she just took the wrong way.

[TenderHooligan]

Originally Posted by ShadowSonic

Tease her how? Could be friendly, brotherly stuff that she just took the wrong way.

I believe Fred and George tease her when she got upset over Mrs. Norris being petrified (Ron tells Harry Ginny really likes cats). And I can't remember, but they might've teased her about the Valentine's card. Even if they didn't, it's pretty easy to imagine them teasing her about Harry at the Burrow.

I don't think it was anything too malicious (certainly not on the level the twins teased Ron and Percy), but Ginny WAS only an 11 year old girl who didn't seem to have any friends in her first year and I can imagine her taking their ribbing to heart (Ron certainly did) before she developed thicker skin. It doesn't really matter whether they intended to be cruel: if Ron as a 12-year old knew better and tried to comfort her, the twins definitely should've known better too.

That being said, I can't remember her getting teased anymore after CoS, probably at first so as not to upset her after the mess in the Chamber, then later because they didn't get the reaction they wanted out of her and/or saw more of themselves in her than they did with Ron and Percy.

Her and Ron do clash more later in the series (mostly just in HBP because for whatever reason JRK decided Ginny HAD to be the instigator of the Ron/Hermione fallout and the subsequent Lavender affair and completely forgot that Ron and Ginny BOTH supported, protected and comforted one another in books 2-5), but Ginny gives (at least) as good as she gets.

Growing up, I imagine first Bill, then Charlie did a good job of protecting her from the twins. And Molly definitely would've handed out severe punishments to anyone messing with her only daughter. I could maybe see Ron teasing Ginny going either way. On the one hand, lots of kids who are bullied jump at the chance to move on down the totem pole and bully someone 'below' them. But on the other, it doesn't really match up toward his behavior toward her in CoS as he comforts her about Mrs. Norris, asks McGonagall about her sorting the minute he's out of trouble and defends her from Malfoy.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by Blue_Pikachu

Harry needs some girl who Harry can be 'afraid' of.

Personally, I don't see it so much as Harry needing a girl he can be "afraid of," he needed a girl with enough moxy to stand up to him and Ginny, the only sister among six older brothers, had that moxy. Hermione had that moxy, too, but she employed it in a bossy, domineering, nagging way. But that's a discussion for another thread.

[ShadowSonic]

I think Luna also had it in her to stand up to him when need be.

[Sereena]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

Personally, I don't see it so much as Harry needing a girl he can be "afraid of," he needed a girl with enough moxy to stand up to him and Ginny, the only sister among six older brothers, had that moxy.

She had it towards everyone but Harry, IMO. I know many fans have criticized her for not telling him off when he was overprotective of her in the final battle and I would have to agree. An ex boyfriend has no business telling a girl she cannot fight alongside her family, actually no boyfriend/husband/partner has that right. Of course, Ginny didn't obey Harry but she didn't stand up for herself either. She preferred to wait quietly until he was gone and then do her thing. The only time I can remember she stood up to him was in HBP when was using the Prince's book. But no example of Ginny standing up to Harry after they get together comes to mind. She spends most time defending him when she thinks he is being disrespected.

[MerryLore]

Originally Posted by Sereena

She had it towards everyone but Harry, IMO. I know many fans have criticized her for not telling him off when he was overprotective of her in the final battle and I would have to agree. An ex boyfriend has no business telling a girl she cannot fight alongside her family, actually no boyfriend/husband/partner has that right. Of course, Ginny didn't obey Harry but she didn't stand up for herself either. She preferred to wait quietly until he was gone and then do her thing. The only time I can remember she stood up to him was in HBP when was using the Prince's book. But no example of Ginny standing up to Harry after they get together comes to mind. She spends most time defending him when she thinks he is being disrespected.

I think Ginny was very independent and wanted Harry focused on what he had to do, and not worrying about her. Not only that, if I remember correctly, Ginny was 16, and no one under 17 was permitted to fight. She did, anyway.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by Sereena

She had it towards everyone but Harry, IMO. I know many fans have criticized her for not telling him off when he was overprotective of her in the final battle and I would have to agree. An ex boyfriend has no business telling a girl she cannot fight alongside her family, actually no boyfriend/husband/partner has that right. Of course, Ginny didn't obey Harry but she didn't stand up for herself either. She preferred to wait quietly until he was gone and then do her thing. The only time I can remember she stood up to him was in HBP when was using the Prince's book. But no example of Ginny standing up to Harry after they get together comes to mind. She spends most time defending him when she thinks he is being disrespected.

Harry was not the one who told Ginny that she could not fight in the final battle. That was her parents, who had every right to tell their 16-year-old daughter that she could not fight - particularly once it had been decreed that nobody under the age of 17 was going to be allowed to fight. Of course, Ginny and some others who were underage - like Colin and Luna - managed to sneak their way into the battle anyway, but they were not supposed to be there because they were underage. That was never Harry's decision to make. It was up to Ginny's parents to decide what she would be allowed to do since she was underage. All Harry did was tell Ginny later on that she should come back to the Room of Requirement when they were finished because that is where her parents had instructed her to stay. The actual instruction for Ginny to stay in the Room of Requirement and not fight came from her parents after Lupin suggested that as a compromise.

What upset Ginny was that Harry did not say anything when her parents forbid her to fight in the battle and told her that she should leave. She wanted Harry to take her side and argue with her, but he didn't. I thought it was made clear on page that Ginny was angry with Harry about that. Ginny choosing not to get into it with Harry in that exact moment - when she was still arguing with her parents about it - didn't diminish that at all, IMO. That simply was not the right time to address it. I have no doubt that Ginny addressed that with Harry later on because she was shown to stand up for herself and speak her mind - particularly from OOTP on. However, I would also consider that an issue that would easily be resolved between them because she was underage at the time and Harry didn't have any authority to overrule her parents - or McGonagall's official decree that no underage students would be allowed to to fight.

[Sereena]

Originally Posted by MerryLore

I think Ginny was very independent and wanted Harry focused on what he had to do, and not worrying about her. Not only that, if I remember correctly, Ginny was 16, and no one under 17 was permitted to fight. She did, anyway.

But Ginny disagreed with Harry which is why she chose to fight anyway. So it is not like she accepted his arguments, she just didnt dare to openly disagree with him and put him in his place. Harry is not the only person at war with Voldemort. Ginny and her family would have been treated like scum under his regime. She wanted to participate in the fight because that is the sort of person she was. . She wasnt the type to wait in her ivory tower while her family and friends risked their lives. But she didnt stand up for herself in this case. Can you imagine Hermione disagreeing with Ron but not speaking up for herself? I cannot.

Originally Posted by meesha1971

What upset Ginny was that Harry did not say anything when her parents forbid her to fight in the battle and told her that she should leave. She wanted Harry to take her side and argue with her, but he didn't.

Yes and that was something that she should have expressed, IMO. Like you say Harry had no right to make that decision for Ginny and if he knew her at all he should have understood her need to fight. I think he should have sided with her but let Molly take the final decision.