What Exactly IS a Mushroom?

[lucycharms]

So...this is related to food, and cooking, and food preferences in general--

My coworkers and I are having a chicken-cooking contest next week and I announced that I'd be making Chicken Carbonara, including the mushrooms and bacon, and jokingly reminded my supervisor that he wouldn't be having any since he hates vegetables. He replied that there are no vegetables in Chicken Carbonara, and a discussion ensued as to whether or not a mushroom can be classified as a vegetable. I say yes...but I seem to have gotten overruled by the majority of my coworkers--some claiming that a fungus cannot be a vegetable, and others claiming that mushrooms aren't even food. What do you think?

[Siriusandme]

Wikipedia says the following:

The word does not have a basis in biology; instead its meaning is largely based on culinary and cultural tradition. Therefore, the application of the word is somewhat arbitrary and subjective. For example, some people consider mushrooms to be vegetables even though they are not plants,[1][2] while others consider them a separate food category.

I would say it's a vegetable, but I guess it's a matter of interpretation.

[Dedalus Diggle]

Well, the ones that say mushrooms are not food are just daft. They may not like mushrooms, but for many of us mushrooms are delightful foods.

Siriusandme's answer is excellent. I would add that the part we eat of most mushrooms is the fruiting body, so you would be biologically correct calling it a fruit (there is often a technical distinction of a fruit being a developed ovary bearing a seed). Of course, other biological "fruits" include zucchini, peppers, squash, okra, avocados, beans, and tomatoes, and a bunch of other foods which are seed-bearers, but which we consider vegetables when we use them as foods.

Personally I recognize the distinction of fungi from plants, but then I often do not include grains such as corn/maize as vegetables, and when feeling particularly persnickety, I will not include nuts or legumes either. I suspect your supervisor specifically does not like plants foods (and probably is okay with the starchy ones and sweet ones), but likes mushrooms, so he draws the distinction as fits his preferences, just as those who say mushrooms are not even food are drawing the distinction that meets their preferences.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

[lucycharms]

It just seemed awfully unfair, in my opinion. I mean, mushrooms are very nutritious, come in a variety of different--and very pleasing flavors--and present a wonderful alternative to lots of different meats and vegetables. And it seems they get such a bad way to go simply because they reproduce by spore instead of seed. Poor mushrooms.

[Quickquill]

Well, considering it's not from the Animal kingdom, I'd classify Mushrooms as vegetable.

[Pokota]

The key reason a Mushroom isn't a plant is that it can't make its own food. Period. End of Story. Nothing in the Fungus or Animal category is capable of auto-nourishment. Everything in the Plant category is capable of auto-nourishment in the form of Photosynthesis (including carnivorous plants; the main reason that they're carnivorous is because of environment - the soil's too poor to get the other nutrients they need)

The reason a mushroom isn't an animal is because it reproduces by spores instead of one of the animal styles of reproduction.

[Quickquill]

Originally Posted by Pokota

The key reason a Mushroom isn't a plant is that it can't make its own food. Period. End of Story. Nothing in the Fungus or Animal category is capable of auto-nourishment. Everything in the Plant category is capable of auto-nourishment in the form of Photosynthesis (including carnivorous plants; the main reason that they're carnivorous is because of environment - the soil's too poor to get the other nutrients they need)

The reason a mushroom isn't an animal is because it reproduces by spores instead of one of the animal styles of reproduction.

The fact that Mushrooms are not green does not disqualify them from being part of the vegetable kingdom. There are also parasitic plants. Mushrooms are immobile, with no moving appendages, nor do they have any other characteristics of the animal kingdom. They're too large to be classified as microorganisms - in all the books I studied, they and all the fungi were included in the vegetable kingdom even if they're not "plants".

I agree with Dedalus Diggle - if you want to get technical about it, it could be considered a fruit. So you can say it's not a "vegetable" but rather a "fruit" or perhaps even a "condiment" or a "spice" culinarily. No doubt your supervisor also eats paprika which is a spice made from a ground up red pepper, which when eaten fresh he would consider as either a vegetable or a fruit. I don't suppose he considers onions as vegetables either. I would imagine his objection to "vegetables" is mainly to the green leafy types or to the ones commonly used as "vegetable" side dishes rather than the ones generally used as spices, or other vegetable foods like grains, roots, and nuts.

[Pokota]

...I never actually said "Green" anywhere. What disqualifies mushrooms and other fungi from the plant kingdom is the fact that they cannot perform photosynthesis. Parasitic plants can at least do that, as can carnivorous ones. Green is the optimal color for the process, as green reflects the least heat/energy, but deciduous trees are still doing photosynthesis well into the autumn when their leaves have turned closer to brown (although a brown leaf is a dead leaf).

If it wasn't for the spores thing, mushrooms would be animals, like barnacles.

[Quickquill]

Originally Posted by Pokota

...I never actually said "Green" anywhere. What disqualifies mushrooms and other fungi from the plant kingdom is the fact that they cannot perform photosynthesis. Parasitic plants can at least do that, as can carnivorous ones. Green is the optimal color for the process, as green reflects the least heat/energy, but deciduous trees are still doing photosynthesis well into the autumn when their leaves have turned closer to brown (although a brown leaf is a dead leaf).

If it wasn't for the spores thing, mushrooms would be animals, like barnacles.

No they wouldn't. they have no animal attributes whatsoever. They do have roots, which is a plant thing. And as pointed out, they reproduce by spores. Barnacles have moving parts They have organs too, no matter how rudimentary, and some sort of a mouth.

[Dedalus Diggle]

Wikipedia discusses all these divisions, at least with a cursory overview. Not surprisingly, the immobility of the mushroom and other multicell fungi led them to be classed with plants in ancient days. It was relatively recently (50 or so years) that they were separated from plants, mostly on lack of self-feeding grounds. More recently, classification systems based on genetics have shown a common ancestry of fungi and animals, causing a proposal to class them together, but in a higher-level grouping than the traditional 'kingdom.' As a young person, I had always known of a three-kingsom system that essentially ignored single-cell organisms. Then more complete systems recognized first a kingdom for single-cell organisms, Monera, which was later divided between prokaryotes (one-cell organisms with no organs) and eukaryotes (those single-cell organisms with internal organs). More recently, the prokaryotes have been divided into bacteria and 'archaea' - those with characteristics described as ancient and clearly very different from the usual bacteria. Part of the difference is in whether to group by characteristics or by descent. Going by descent, also known as cladistics, then all creatures with organs in their cells become part of a 'domain' of eukaryotes, which is then divided into the four kingdoms of protista (single-cells with a nucleus and usually other organs), plants, animals and fungi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_%28biology%29

It is all very fascinating to me, but far too involved for most people's every day usage. I have no problem with fungi products - mushrooms - being in the produce section with all the foods produced by 'vegetative growth'. But broad terms such as 'vegetable' are in a lot of ways not very useful in making distinctions. As noted repeatedly, many people who say they don't like 'vegetables' will eat mushrooms, potatoes, beans, grains, avocado, tomato sauce, and other vegetative products. They just don't like the less starchy, less sweet, less oily vegetables like leaves and stems. Similarly, if someone is watching carbs for blood sugar concerns, one watches out for white potatoes, fruits (especially juiced), refined grains, sweet vegetables such as carrots, etc. And if one is watching calorie content, one also watches out for oily veggies like avocado and several others. But unless you define your concern, words used with a particular meaning in other contexts may not carry the meaning you seek to convey.

[lucycharms]

This whole discussion has been fascinating. I primarily had an issue with the fact that mushrooms seem to be conveniently left out of any category in the FDA's Food Pyramid, despite their nutritional and flavorful benefits. They clearly are not scientifically vegetables, fruits, grains, dairy products, meats, nuts, seeds, oils, fats, or sugars. Yet, there is no "edible fungi" category in the Pyramid (and this is where the root of my workplace disagreement is). So, purely out of disgust at this oversight, I feel the need to cram mushrooms and other mushroom-like edibles into the vegetable category, not only because they are a plant-ish sort of growth but also because they tend more toward the savory-starch end of the flavor spectrum. Most people that I work with deny that mushrooms should even be considered food and would be more inclined to classify them as a spice or flavoring, but this bothers me as well. As far as I know, there is only one spice/flavoring/seasoning in the everyday diet that is not actually organic, and that's salt--not to mention the fact that calling a mushroom a flavoring or spice is erroneous anyway since there are many, many dishes which feature mushrooms as the "meat" of the dish, if you will.

This has been my prevailing argument against the "Mushrooms Are Not Food" faction, plus the notion that even spices, flavorings, and seasonings are foods, though they provide almost no caloric energy and are rarely used in more than the tiniest quantities. I like to think that my coworkers--who are a collection of healthy, farm-raised kids--might have some idea what they're talking about when it comes to nutrition, but most of them don't eat much besides meat, potatoes, and cheese.

Such is the case with my boss--his vegetable preferences include potatoes. And that's pretty much it. He doesn't eat onions or garlic (at least when he can see them in a dish and identify them as such) or tomatoes in any form besides tomato sauce (smooth, not chunky) and ketchup and dislikes spicy foods. Yet, he loves ranch dressing to the point that he would actually drink it out of a cup if allowed (and I'm not sure he knows that the flavors in ranch dressing are vegetable-based). He claims that all vegetables taste metallic to him, and that his doctor has confirmed that this is a genuine medical condition. He claims that he has a desire to eat vegetables, but that he can't stand the taste. I claim that I have a desire to force-feed him broccoli and carrots, to prove to him that they actually will not kill him and might, in fact, make him feel better. However, his "medical condition" does not explain his distaste for mushrooms. Clearly, as I stated before, mushrooms are actually NOT vegetables, at least biologically, and whatever it is inside vegetables that tastes metallic to him is very likely not present in mushrooms (or else it would also have to be present in almost all other foods). So what, I wonder, does he have against mushrooms? They don't really taste much like any vegetable, nor do they have a very similar texture. His dislike for both vegetables and fungi makes me think perhaps the problem is not with the food, but with him--that as a child, he was allowed to eat whatever he wanted (namely burgers, chicken nuggets, cheese products, etc.) and was never heavily encouraged to eat vegetables, and therefore never developed a tolerance or liking for any of them. And now, as an adult, he thinks vegetables are evil and will hurt him. I hate when parents do this kind of thing to their kids...my mother made me eat a variety of veggies as a kid, and no, I didn't like them, but I ate them, and now, I like them. I just feel bad for my boss because his cholesterol-laden diet is sure to put him in the same boat with his father, who has suffered three heart attacks and had several bypass surgeries. And it would be so much simpler to just eat the vegetables.

[Quickquill]

Originally Posted by lucycharms

He claims that all vegetables taste metallic to him, and that his doctor has confirmed that this is a genuine medical condition. He claims that he has a desire to eat vegetables, but that he can't stand the taste....... I just feel bad for my boss because his cholesterol-laden diet is sure to put him in the same boat with his father, who has suffered three heart attacks and had several bypass surgeries. And it would be so much simpler to just eat the vegetables.

I have read that a metallic taste can be traced to a nutritional deficiency (possibly zinc). (Which isn't surprising if your boss's diet is as unbalanced as you say it is.) Zinc is found in most meats, legumes, and nuts. Algae such as Kelp and Nori are good sources of all trace minerals in proper balance for good health. Try to get him to eat kelp tablets if he can't stand the taste of vegetables. he must be missing something else, if zinc is that widespread in animal foods. I can't find the reference right now but I have read that that condition is nutritionally related. No doubt it requires a number of trace elements working in concert to cure it. maybe he should get a hair test to find out what he's low in.

Does he eat fruit? Various vitamins are needed to help activate the trace minerals. He must be eating some vegetable foods, even if he doesn't consider them vegetables or food. He probably eats herbs as "seasoning" in soups and sauces.

[SeverusSnapeHBP]

A mushroom is a fungus. But apparently, they're not good to eat raw.

I love mushrooms. I always want steak with mushrooms and onions. It's delicious.

[Dedalus Diggle]

Originally Posted by SeverusSnapeHBP

A mushroom is a fungus. But apparently, they're not good to eat raw.

I love mushrooms. I always want steak with mushrooms and onions. It's delicious.

I often have them raw, on salads or as crudite'. I have never heard that an otherwise-edible mushroom should not be eaten raw. Do you have some source for that?

[Temery]

that's funny to me bc I love mushrooms but ONLY raw
I will eat chewy, crunchy, juicy fungus all day long, love it.
I will not eat slimy fungus! no way no how, it's not the flavor (that's fine) it's the texture.