Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone

Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #221  
Old August 25th, 2007, 6:41 am
gertiekeddle's Avatar
gertiekeddle  Female.gif gertiekeddle is offline
Eldest Gruff
 
Joined: 3190 days
Location: Φelda, et sinust ma hoolin
Age: 36
Posts: 5,223
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

I don't think they got arrested since they were sitting together with the others - if, then a bit apart - during the great meal at Hogwarts in the Great Hall at the end.


__________________
(Avatar by Alfonzo)


I don't want to live in a world
where the strong rules and the weak cower.
Harry Dresden.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #222  
Old August 25th, 2007, 12:59 pm
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose  Female.gif YellowRose is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 3331 days
Location: Doing Wheelies
Age: 30
Posts: 2,259
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

The point is..what did they deserve? It's clear none of them are angels but they are not as bad as other Death Eaters and Voldemort supporters. I think their biggest fault is snobbism.


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #223  
Old August 25th, 2007, 3:45 pm
sticky  Female.gif sticky is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 2604 days
Location: Aberystwyth
Age: 22
Posts: 1,523
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowRose View Post
The point is..what did they deserve? It's clear none of them are angels but they are not as bad as other Death Eaters and Voldemort supporters. I think their biggest fault is snobbism.
i agree. they weren't as bad as other deatheaters and their main problem was snobbism and stubborness. I don't think they were arrested, they were with everyone else in the great hall. I htink they have learnt their lesson though. They were very concerned about their so, draco. i think voldemort really scared them and they realised they were underthreat through DH. Thye weren't really a threat as much as the other deatheaters.


__________________
http://www.
Snape: Loreal, Because you're worth it

''Dear Professor Snape,
Dude...It's called Shampoo.
Love Anomoulous xX''

Ways to Annoy Snape...Wink at him evertime you catch his eye

Come and Guess The Screenshot!!! http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=110197
Reply With Quote
  #224  
Old November 9th, 2012, 1:10 am
asdfasdf17  Undisclosed.gif asdfasdf17 is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 825 days
Posts: 440
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

When Rowling revealed that none of the Malfoys had gone to jail and were pardoned instead for switching sides, I was a bit surprised.

I had at least been expected Lucius to get put into Azkaban because to me, he's the one who truly deserved it: he joined the Death Eaters willingly, tortured Muggles and probably killed innocent people during both wars (well, maybe not as much during the second war seeing as he didn't have a wand for some time) and a lot of the stuff he did was for selfish reasons. Also, he was the one who got his whole family, especially his son, put in a very bad position during the majority of Voldemort's second reign. Although I feel he came through in the end when he showed true concern for Draco, for the most part I didn't like actions and I felt he deserved to be punished for them.

Than again, life after the war, the drop of his social standing and his possible shaky relationships with his wife and son might be punishment enough. Possibly him not going to jail was to show that jail isn't the only, or the worst, punishment out there.

As for Narcissa: from what we've been shown of her in the series, she seems to do many of the risky stuff (like going to Snape in HBP and lying about Harry to Voldemort) purely out of concern and care for her son. Although she doesn't seem like a nice person generally (especially if your not Pure-blood!) she does seem like an extremely caring mother and I really liked her for that. I'm glad she didn't get punished or die or anything because I don't think she would have deserved that.

Finally, Draco. For the most part of the series, Draco just seemed like he was there to bully Harry. His role wasn't very defined, nor very important IMO, until HBP. But I liked to see that there was more than a bully in him and that he truly cared for his family, trying to protect them from Voldemort and everything. I also liked seeing that he wasn't a cold-blooded killer/torturer (although I think Voldemort made him torture people) like his aunt. I felt a bit bad for him even though I thought he was a bit of a coward for the most part and didn't really change all that much (at the same time, I can't really know how much he would change. And the fact that he and Harry exchanged curt nods at King's Cross seems to show that he at least matured to a certain point and did change a little). So I'm also glad he didn't get any further punishment from the Ministry because I feel that what he went through in HBP and DH was punishment enough.


Reply With Quote
  #225  
Old November 9th, 2012, 4:56 am
horcrux4's Avatar
horcrux4  Female.gif horcrux4 is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 3069 days
Location: Sheffield UK
Age: 68
Posts: 2,167
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdf17 View Post
I had at least been expected Lucius to get put into Azkaban because to me, he's the one who truly deserved it: he joined the Death Eaters willingly, tortured Muggles and probably killed innocent people during both wars (well, maybe not as much during the second war seeing as he didn't have a wand for some time) and a lot of the stuff he did was for selfish reasons. Also, he was the one who got his whole family, especially his son, put in a very bad position during the majority of Voldemort's second reign. Although I feel he came through in the end when he showed true concern for Draco, for the most part I didn't like actions and I felt he deserved to be punished for them.

Than again, life after the war, the drop of his social standing and his possible shaky relationships with his wife and son might be punishment enough. Possibly him not going to jail was to show that jail isn't the only, or the worst, punishment out there.
Lucius had already served at least a year in Azkaban (throughout HBP) and I don't know on what grounds he and the other DEs were imprisoned after the Ministry fiasco. It's possible that you can't be tried twice for the same offences so justice would only be meted out on what he'd done since he got out. I've often wondered if he really wanted to be out of Azkaban while Voldemort was on the rampage or whether he felt safer inside! He came out to find Voldemort humiliating him and his family in their own home which must have been a blow to a man of his supercilious temperament. The scene where Voldy takes his wand from him shows how far he had fallen.

We never see any intermediate punishments in the wizarding world between aquittal and Azkaban. Fining Lucius wouldn't have been a big deal as he was so rich. Community service would have been a humiliation to him but I don't think they had anything like that. I'm sure Harry and the other aurors after the war kept a very close eye on the Malfoys (they'd have been foolish not to!) and Lucius would never again have the sort of influence he had when we first met him. Maybe that was punishment enough.


__________________
Meet Mickey, my new kitten!
Quote:
"From this time forth we shall be leaving the firm foundation of fact and journeying together through the murky marshes of memory into thickets of wildest guesswork."
Albus Dumbledore, HBP
Reply With Quote
  #226  
Old November 9th, 2012, 5:18 am
ShadowSonic  Male.gif ShadowSonic is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 1059 days
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,090
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

I doubt 1 year in Azkaban really makes up for whatever he did in the First War, or what he did to Ginny.


Reply With Quote
  #227  
Old November 9th, 2012, 5:33 am
ccollinsmith's Avatar
ccollinsmith  Female.gif ccollinsmith is online now
Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
 
Joined: 1576 days
Location: The Village
Posts: 2,250
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

I think having Voldy take the family hostage and terrorize them incessantly for two years solid was sufficient punishment for Draco and Narcissa at least. In fact all of Draco's actual crimes (as opposed to his being just a general prat) were committed after the family had been essentially sentenced to a slow lingering death.

As for Lucius... I think the logic behind not returning him to Azkaban was that he left the fight before Voldemort was defeated. At the end of the battle, he was no longer a loyal Death Eater. And there was precedent for that sort of mercy in the aftermath of the first war.

Did he get what he deserved? No. But I totally understand Harry's insistence on mercy for he Malfoys - even Lucius. Harry had seen through his scarcrux what Voldemort had done to them. There was really no official punishment that could compare with what Harry witnessed. Azkaban would have been practically a resort vacation after having had Voldemort camp out in Malfoy Manor.


__________________



Hogsmeade Awards 2013: Voted #1 - Biggest Cat Lover | Voted #2 - Most Creative Member |
Voted #2 - Most Likely to Make a Doctor Who Reference


VIVA LA GLITTELUTION!

Last edited by ccollinsmith; November 9th, 2012 at 5:37 am.
Reply With Quote
  #228  
Old November 9th, 2012, 7:03 am
ShadowSonic  Male.gif ShadowSonic is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 1059 days
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,090
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Well, I doubt the Weasleys or Katie Bell's family (or Madame Rosemerta) would consider living with Voldy a just punishment.

What if any of them had died because of Draco's incompetence? What then?


Reply With Quote
  #229  
Old November 9th, 2012, 8:11 am
ccollinsmith's Avatar
ccollinsmith  Female.gif ccollinsmith is online now
Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
 
Joined: 1576 days
Location: The Village
Posts: 2,250
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
Well, I doubt the Weasleys or Katie Bell's family (or Madame Rosemerta) would consider living with Voldy a just punishment.

What if any of them had died because of Draco's incompetence? What then?
Living with Voldemort was infinitely more horrific than living in a post-Dementor Azkaban. Anyway, mercy for the Malfoys was Harry's idea, according to Rowling. Harry had learned a lot about second chances from Dumbledore and Snape, and imo what he learned informed his actions and decisions after he returned from his sacrifice in the Forest.


__________________



Hogsmeade Awards 2013: Voted #1 - Biggest Cat Lover | Voted #2 - Most Creative Member |
Voted #2 - Most Likely to Make a Doctor Who Reference


VIVA LA GLITTELUTION!
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old November 9th, 2012, 8:44 am
LyannaS  Female.gif LyannaS is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 575 days
Location: In a daydream
Posts: 207
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
Living with Voldemort was infinitely more horrific than living in a post-Dementor Azkaban. Anyway, mercy for the Malfoys was Harry's idea, according to Rowling. Harry had learned a lot about second chances from Dumbledore and Snape, and imo what he learned informed his actions and decisions after he returned from his sacrifice in the Forest.
Ah, the quality of mercy...

I agree with you that life with Voldie was no picnic. But I still don't think the Malfoys, especially Lucius, were punished enough. Following Voldie was his choice, he knew that he was serving a cruel master, but he stayed loyal and took his punishments like the other DEs. BTW, I think one has to be masochistic to follow such a master but that's beside the point.

Narcissa lied to Voldie and thus saved Harry's life, but she was acting out of love and concern for Draco, not because she went over to the side of good.

Draco himself I have a little more sympathy for.

Personally, I'd have liked to see the elder Malfoys, especially Lucius, taken to account for their crimes and cruelty (like Lucius' treatment of Dobby, which apparently neither Narcissa nor Draco did anything about) before being left to return to Malfoy Manor and live happily ever after. I guess I'm not as forgiving as Harry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowRose View Post
The point is..what did they deserve? It's clear none of them are angels but they are not as bad as other Death Eaters and Voldemort supporters. I think their biggest fault is snobbism.
You're too indulgent, IMO.

What about what Lucius did to Dobby and what he tried to do to Ginny? What about his participation in the DEs' numerous attacks on Muggles and other wizards like at the World Cup? Lucius wasn't above resorting to torture, he abused his power in the cases of Hagrid and Buckbeak, among other things. Snobbism is the least of it. It's not a crime anyway but, as you say, a fault. But the Malfoys did commit crimes or let them be committed, and they should have to pay for that.


Reply With Quote
  #231  
Old November 9th, 2012, 9:27 am
HRW  Male.gif HRW is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 646 days
Location: Under Fidelius Charm
Posts: 410
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
Living with Voldemort was infinitely more horrific than living in a post-Dementor Azkaban. Anyway, mercy for the Malfoys was Harry's idea, according to Rowling. Harry had learned a lot about second chances from Dumbledore and Snape, and imo what he learned informed his actions and decisions after he returned from his sacrifice in the Forest.
However siding with Voldemort and joining the death eaters (in Lucius's case) was their own choice so I don't really feel sorry for them at all. Everything they went through was all of their own doing.

Lucius should've got a long stay in Azkaban. He was in Voldemort's inner circle at the time of the first war and has probably tortured an killed many people. Almost killed Ginny (along with several Muggleborns) in CoS, tortured muggles in GoF and if had his way would've killed a couple of DA members in the Ministry of Magic in OotP.

Draco is much better than his father (That doesn't say a lot for Draco) but I'd have thought he would get some sort of punishment for almost killing two students in HBP. Other than that he and his father seem to act quite cowardly in DH.

Narcissa, I like a lot more than the male Malfoys. She is much braver than her son and husband and defies Voldemort twice (once in HBP and once in DH) at great risk for her son's safety. And other than going along with the ideals of pureblood supremacy she does not seem to do much wrong in the books.


Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old November 9th, 2012, 1:08 pm
MerryLore's Avatar
MerryLore  Female.gif MerryLore is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 1049 days
Location: catagorizing Sev's books
Posts: 1,623
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyannaS View Post
Narcissa lied to Voldie and thus saved Harry's life, but she was acting out of love and concern for Draco, not because she went over to the side of good.
Saving her son by lying to Voldemort and subsequently saving Harry isn't illegal.

Quote:
Personally, I'd have liked to see the elder Malfoys, especially Lucius, taken to account for their crimes and cruelty (like Lucius' treatment of Dobby, which apparently neither Narcissa nor Draco did anything about) before being left to return to Malfoy Manor and live happily ever after. I guess I'm not as forgiving as Harry.
In the wizarding world at that time, i suspect house elves are seen as personal property, so nothing here is illegal. I'm not saying I approve, BTW.

Quote:
What about what Lucius did to Dobby
wasn't illegal for reasons I mentioned above
Quote:
and what he tried to do to Ginny?
It would have to be proven. No one saw him give her the diary, and was only a very good guess by DD (although I'm sure the correct one).

Quote:
What about his participation in the DEs' numerous attacks on Muggles and other wizards like at the World Cup?
Wore a mask, wasn't caught

Quote:
Lucius wasn't above resorting to torture, he abused his power in the cases of Hagrid and Buckbeak, among other things.
He was cunning and most likely did it in a way he would not be brought up on legal charges.

Quote:
Snobbism is the least of it. It's not a crime anyway but, as you say, a fault. But the Malfoys did commit crimes or let them be committed, and they should have to pay for that.
Narcissa wasn't a Death Eater, and other than be married to Lucius and aware of his treatment of Dobby (which i agree was wrng but probably not illegal), what were her actual crimes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRW View Post
Lucius should've got a long stay in Azkaban. He was in Voldemort's inner circle at the time of the first war and has probably tortured an killed many people.
He'd already been tried at the end of the first war and was found not guilty due to having been Imperio'd. Not that i agree with the verdict, though.

Quote:
Almost killed Ginny (along with several Muggleborns) in CoS
They probably couldn't prove it, and Dumbledore seems to give people a pass if it happens at Hogwarts.

Quote:
tortured muggles in GoF
Wore a mask and wasn't caught

Quote:
and if had his way would've killed a couple of DA members in the Ministry of Magic in OotP.
Did time for this one - a year, I think.


__________________
avatar by me and WB, banner by Dark_Disciple

When I'm 80 years old and sitting in my rocking chair, I'll be reading Harry Potter.
My family will say to me, “After all this time?”
And I will say, “Always.”
- source unknown

owlcat207 - first batch - Proud Member of the House of the Dancing Cupcakes
Reply With Quote
  #233  
Old November 9th, 2012, 1:28 pm
wolfbrother  Male.gif wolfbrother is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 2207 days
Age: 24
Posts: 1,218
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
Well, I doubt the Weasleys or Katie Bell's family (or Madame Rosemerta) would consider living with Voldy a just punishment.
Pretty sure asking them to spend some quality time with Voldemort would have been terrifying for them.

Quote:
What if any of them had died because of Draco's incompetence? What then?
But they didn't, big difference. Of course, if someone had died, then Draco would have been sentenced.

Despite the fact that the Malfoys didn't go to azkaban, they would have had a huge reputation hit. I think that it would take the Malfoys a couple of generations before they got back their old reputation and influence.


Reply With Quote
  #234  
Old November 9th, 2012, 8:50 pm
FurryDice's Avatar
FurryDice  Female.gif FurryDice is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 2303 days
Location: Ireland
Age: 29
Posts: 2,525
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdf17 View Post
When Rowling revealed that none of the Malfoys had gone to jail and were pardoned instead for switching sides, I was a bit surprised.
So was I, but I think it's realistic. I think it goes to show that sometimes people do get away with crimes. Sometimes, evil goes unpunished, while good people suffer.

Quote:
Than again, life after the war, the drop of his social standing and his possible shaky relationships with his wife and son might be punishment enough. Possibly him not going to jail was to show that jail isn't the only, or the worst, punishment out there.
I don't think loss of prestige is punishment enough for terrorism and destroying innocent lives. Though, I do think that Lucius deserved to lose his social standing. I agree with what Harry said at the end of OotP, "at least everyone knows what ?! they are now".

Quote:
So I'm also glad he didn't get any further punishment from the Ministry because I feel that what he went through in HBP and DH was punishment enough.
IMO, what he went through is nothing compared to what innocent victims went through. What he went through was a case of "be careful what you wish for".

Quote:
Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
Lucius had already served at least a year in Azkaban (throughout HBP) and I don't know on what grounds he and the other DEs were imprisoned after the Ministry fiasco.
Not the most reliable of sources, but according to the Daily Prophet, it was for trespass at the Ministry. However, I would expect "membership of an illegal organisation" to be in there somewhere. Also, as Voldemort broke them out, they did not serve their full sentence.

Quote:
I'm sure Harry and the other aurors after the war kept a very close eye on the Malfoys (they'd have been foolish not to!) and Lucius would never again have the sort of influence he had when we first met him. Maybe that was punishment enough.
I don't think that losing ill-gotten political influence is enough of a punishment for the evils Lucius committed. But I do agree that the Ministry probably kept tabs on them after they got away with it. I think they would have learned that lesson after the last time the Malfoys were allowed to get away with crimes. I think that the Malfoys would have to keep their noses clean after the war. I relish the idea of Lucius in a strop because he can't prevent Muggle prevention laws, or because the new Minister has no interest in his gold or generations of inbreeding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
I doubt 1 year in Azkaban really makes up for whatever he did in the First War, or what he did to Ginny.
Sadly, what he did to Ginny is so often overlooked or trivialised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
I think having Voldy take the family hostage and terrorize them incessantly for two years solid was sufficient punishment for Draco and Narcissa at least. In fact all of Draco's actual crimes (as opposed to his being just a general prat) were committed after the family had been essentially sentenced to a slow lingering death.
That's what happens when you serve a genocidal maniac. The Malfoys simply got a taste of their own medicine. I don't consider that sufficient punishment.

Quote:
As for Lucius... I think the logic behind not returning him to Azkaban was that he left the fight before Voldemort was defeated. At the end of the battle, he was no longer a loyal Death Eater. And there was precedent for that sort of mercy in the aftermath of the first war.
At the end of the battle, not many of them were loyal Death Eaters. They had no master, no free rein to torture and murder as they wished. They faced a Ministry that wanted to punish them for their crimes, rather than endorse them. I very much doubt that any of them were loyal DEs after the battle.

And that mercy after the first was was hypocritical and misplaced - thugs like the Malfoys, Nott, Crabbe, Goyle et al walked free - free to resume their crimes when Voldemort returned. Hypocritical because an innocent man was imprisoned without trial, while terrorists like Malfoy got away scot-free with everything they had done.

And, apart from Bellatrix and her crew, Lucius is the only DE known to have committed evil deeds of his own accord after Voldemort fell - giving that diary to Ginny was inexcusable and utterly unjustifiable evil, IMO.

Quote:
Did he get what he deserved? No. But I totally understand Harry's insistence on mercy for he Malfoys - even Lucius. Harry had seen through his scarcrux what Voldemort had done to them. There was really no official punishment that could compare with what Harry witnessed. Azkaban would have been practically a resort vacation after having had Voldemort camp out in Malfoy Manor.
Punishment? IMO, it was a taste of their own medicine, and I have very, very limited sympathy for the Malfoys for having Voldemort as a houseguest. Lucius pledged allegiance to him - he chose to support a murdering megalomaniac - so no, he doesn't get my sympathy when he's on the receiving end rather than dishing out the suffering. Lucius' victims are infinitely more deserving of sympathy than Lucius himself, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
Well, I doubt the Weasleys or Katie Bell's family (or Madame Rosemerta) would consider living with Voldy a just punishment.

What if any of them had died because of Draco's incompetence? What then?
Well, it was sheer dumb luck that neither of them died. Also, in the case of the poisoned mead, it was sheer dumb luck that a whole group of people weren't murdered. Imagine if Ron had waited for Harry and Slughorn to drink the toast with him -

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
Living with Voldemort was infinitely more horrific than living in a post-Dementor Azkaban. Anyway, mercy for the Malfoys was Harry's idea, according to Rowling. Harry had learned a lot about second chances from Dumbledore and Snape, and imo what he learned informed his actions and decisions after he returned from his sacrifice in the Forest.
There's second chances and there's letting people get away with utter evil. There's forgiveness and there's being a doormat. I would see a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyannaS View Post
I agree with you that life with Voldie was no picnic. But I still don't think the Malfoys, especially Lucius, were punished enough. Following Voldie was his choice, he knew that he was serving a cruel master, but he stayed loyal and took his punishments like the other DEs. BTW, I think one has to be masochistic to follow such a master but that's beside the point.
I agree. Lucius chose to serve a sadistic murderer. He chose to commit violent crimes for his own benefit. He chose to destroy lives for his own benefit. IMO, he completely got away with this. And I do not consider a year in Azkaban or sharing his home with the master he pledged to serve sufficient punishment for the evil of Lucius Malfoy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRW View Post
However siding with Voldemort and joining the death eaters (in Lucius's case) was their own choice so I don't really feel sorry for them at all. Everything they went through was all of their own doing.
I agree. I have sympathy for those who never supported Voldemort. For the innocent victims. Not for Death Eaters who got a taste of their own medicine and found that they didn't like it.

Quote:
Lucius should've got a long stay in Azkaban. He was in Voldemort's inner circle at the time of the first war and has probably tortured an killed many people. Almost killed Ginny (along with several Muggleborns) in CoS, tortured muggles in GoF and if had his way would've killed a couple of DA members in the Ministry of Magic in OotP.
I agree. Lucius' actions were horrific, IMO. It always strikes me as ironic that what Lucius did to Ginny in CoS was incredibly similar to what his master did to Draco in HBP. Except that Draco knew what he was doing and Ginny was possessed. But, despite his similarity to his master, Lucius' actions are overlooked.

Quote:
And other than going along with the ideals of pureblood supremacy she does not seem to do much wrong in the books.
IMO, there is something very, very wrong with that in itself. It's not as if one can say she "only" supported rabid bigotry. She was a bigoted extremist. And while opinions are of course not crimes, following through on some opinions is illegal. As in the case of the pureblood fanatics. They can whine all they want about their persecution complexes and hatred of Muggles and Muggleborns - but turning that whining to hate crime is a different matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerryLore View Post
Saving her son by lying to Voldemort and subsequently saving Harry isn't illegal.
Is this thread talking about courts of law? IMO, the point is, that Narcissa showed no shred of conscience when it came to the evil her family were committing. All that mattered to her was Draco. She didn't care who else saw their children murdered.

Quote:
It would have to be proven. No one saw him give her the diary, and was only a very good guess by DD (although I'm sure the correct one).
It was undoubtedly the correct one. And I don't think this thread is discussing whether Lucius' evil deeds could be proven in a court of law. IMO, what he did to Ginny and the other children who were attacked was depraved, and I'm disappointed that he got away with it.

Quote:
He was cunning and most likely did it in a way he would not be brought up on legal charges.
In other words, got away with it. And as the topic of this discussion is whether the Malfoys got what they deserved, I would have to say no. Lucius got away with horrific crimes.

Quote:
Narcissa wasn't a Death Eater, and other than be married to Lucius and aware of his treatment of Dobby (which i agree was wrng but probably not illegal), what were her actual crimes?
Accessory to Lucius' crimes. She knew he was a terrorist and concealed that fact.

Quote:
Wore a mask and wasn't caught
In other words, got away with terrorism because of cowardice.


[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfbrother View Post
Pretty sure asking them to spend some quality time with Voldemort would have been terrifying for them.
Spending time with Voldemort would be terrifying for anyone. Just look at Harry in GoF and Charity in DH. However, the Malfoys chose to support Voldemort, so I don't particularly feel much sympathy for them being expected to spend time with their master.

Quote:
But they didn't, big difference. Of course, if someone had died, then Draco would have been sentenced.
Attempted murder is also a crime.

Quote:
Despite the fact that the Malfoys didn't go to azkaban, they would have had a huge reputation hit. I think that it would take the Malfoys a couple of generations before they got back their old reputation and influence.
Hardly a sufficient punishment for terrorism, IMO. It just means that Scorpius is going to be tarred with the same brush as his terrorist father and grandfather. Seeing Draco and Lucius lose their prestige was well deserved, but hardly enough for what they did.


__________________

Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632
"Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous
"Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.
Reply With Quote
  #235  
Old November 9th, 2012, 10:43 pm
MerryLore's Avatar
MerryLore  Female.gif MerryLore is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 1049 days
Location: catagorizing Sev's books
Posts: 1,623
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FurryDice View Post
And, apart from Bellatrix and her crew, Lucius is the only DE known to have committed evil deeds of his own accord after Voldemort fell - giving that diary to Ginny was inexcusable and utterly unjustifiable evil, IMO.
I'm not sure he knew what the Diary was - only that it was prized by Voldemort, and he wanted to unload it since the Ministry was searching his home. It was wrong to slip it into her bag, absolutely. But I don't think he fully knew what he had done and what the effect would be.

Quote:
Well, it was sheer dumb luck that neither of them died. Also, in the case of the poisoned mead, it was sheer dumb luck that a whole group of people weren't murdered. Imagine if Ron had waited for Harry and Slughorn to drink the toast with him -
I feel a degree of sympathy for Draco - who acted out of fear for his family, i think. Even Dumbledore would have protected him and hidden him. I also think he was under seventeen. I don't condone what he did in the least, however.

Quote:
I agree. Lucius chose to serve a sadistic murderer. He chose to commit violent crimes for his own benefit. He chose to destroy lives for his own benefit. IMO, he completely got away with this. And I do not consider a year in Azkaban or sharing his home with the master he pledged to serve sufficient punishment for the evil of Lucius Malfoy.
Well, since you're right and this thread is about what we think people should get, I thought Lucius should have gotten ten to twenty years in Azkaban, more if the MoM could prove he directly committed murder.

Quote:
Is this thread talking about courts of law? IMO, the point is, that Narcissa showed no shred of conscience when it came to the evil her family were committing. All that mattered to her was Draco. She didn't care who else saw their children murdered.
I guess i usually see actions as being more important and more telling than motivation. She wasn't a Death Eater. She did not take part in their activities. I'm guessing she loved her husband and agreed with his beliefs, but not enough to fight for them. She also didn't turn him in. And she did save Harry, even if her primary motivation was to get to Draco. To me, she was punished enough with her loss of status.


__________________
avatar by me and WB, banner by Dark_Disciple

When I'm 80 years old and sitting in my rocking chair, I'll be reading Harry Potter.
My family will say to me, “After all this time?”
And I will say, “Always.”
- source unknown

owlcat207 - first batch - Proud Member of the House of the Dancing Cupcakes
Reply With Quote
  #236  
Old November 9th, 2012, 11:40 pm
LyannaS  Female.gif LyannaS is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 575 days
Location: In a daydream
Posts: 207
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerryLore View Post
Saving her son by lying to Voldemort and subsequently saving Harry isn't illegal.
...
In the wizarding world at that time, i suspect house elves are seen as personal property, so nothing here is illegal. I'm not saying I approve, BTW.
...
wasn't illegal for reasons I mentioned above
Merrylore, I never said anything about legality. I was talking about good and evil, right and wrong, good intentions and ulterior (and selfish) motives.

I agree with everything Furry Dice said.

BTW, I don't see any other way for Tom Riddle's diary to have landed with Ginny's books but that Malfoy put it there, and did it on purpose. Dobby knew about it, too, that's what he was trying to warn Harry about (among other things).


Reply With Quote
  #237  
Old November 10th, 2012, 1:37 am
MerryLore's Avatar
MerryLore  Female.gif MerryLore is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 1049 days
Location: catagorizing Sev's books
Posts: 1,623
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyannaS View Post
Merrylore, I never said anything about legality. I was talking about good and evil, right and wrong, good intentions and ulterior (and selfish) motives.
What punishment do you think Narcissa deserved?

Quote:
BTW, I don't see any other way for Tom Riddle's diary to have landed with Ginny's books but that Malfoy put it there, and did it on purpose. Dobby knew about it, too, that's what he was trying to warn Harry about (among other things).
I believe Lucius placed it there intentionally, but I'm not sure he knew what it was or what it did. I think he knew Voldemort prized it and he shouldn't have it and that the MoM would confiscate it, but not really what he had.


__________________
avatar by me and WB, banner by Dark_Disciple

When I'm 80 years old and sitting in my rocking chair, I'll be reading Harry Potter.
My family will say to me, “After all this time?”
And I will say, “Always.”
- source unknown

owlcat207 - first batch - Proud Member of the House of the Dancing Cupcakes
Reply With Quote
  #238  
Old November 10th, 2012, 2:20 am
ShadowSonic  Male.gif ShadowSonic is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 1059 days
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,090
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerryLore View Post
What punishment do you think Narcissa deserved?
Whatever you get for being accessory to conspiracy. Knowing about crimes and not doing anything about them is still a punishable offense.


Reply With Quote
  #239  
Old November 10th, 2012, 4:45 am
FurryDice's Avatar
FurryDice  Female.gif FurryDice is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 2303 days
Location: Ireland
Age: 29
Posts: 2,525
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerryLore View Post
I'm not sure he knew what the Diary was - only that it was prized by Voldemort, and he wanted to unload it since the Ministry was searching his home. It was wrong to slip it into her bag, absolutely. But I don't think he fully knew what he had done and what the effect would be.
Lucius did not know the diary was a horcrux. However, he knew it would cause the Chamber to be reopened. Dumbledore, in HBP, states that Lucius knew what the diary would do, but not what it was. And in the Polyjuice Potion chapter, Draco admits that his father knows what's going on but doesn't want Draco to get involved. And, as LyannaStark mentions Dobby, that rmeinds me, Lucius knew well what the diary would do - he knew well enough that when Dobby got wind of the evil Lucius was planning, he warned Harry about it. He knew that it involved "He who must not be named before he changed his name" - that was his big hint to Harry at first. And, in the hospital wing, he spoke to Harry of the Chamber being opened before. IMO, all of this shows that Lucius knew what the diary would do.

Lucius wanted to get at Arthur Weasley (and the Muggle Protection Act) by destroying his daughter - the potential deaths of Muggleborn students was an added bonus. It was incredibly similar to what Voldemort did to Draco in HBP, and yet, what Lucius did to Ginny, an eleven year old child, gets utterly overlooked and downgraded to a minor indiscretion. I don't get it.

Quote:
I feel a degree of sympathy for Draco - who acted out of fear for his family, i think. Even Dumbledore would have protected him and hidden him. I also think he was under seventeen. I don't condone what he did in the least, however.
Draco, who found out "becareful what you wish for". Draco, who found out that when you follow a murdering madman, there's no guarantee that it'll always be the filthy muggles, "mudbloods" and blood traitors on the receiving end of his anger.


Quote:
I guess i usually see actions as being more important and more telling than motivation.
I guess I see motivation as more telling. It shows a lot about a person and their priorities and who they really are.

Quote:
To me, she was punished enough with her loss of status.
Why is loss of status such a big punishment? IMO, it was the least any extremist terrorist should get. There is no way the Malfoys should be able to wriggle their way back into being respected and influential after this. And that's for the benefit of the entire wizarding (and muggle) community, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyannaS View Post
BTW, I don't see any other way for Tom Riddle's diary to have landed with Ginny's books but that Malfoy put it there, and did it on purpose. Dobby knew about it, too, that's what he was trying to warn Harry about (among other things).
I agree. From everything Dobby said to Harry, it was plain that Lucius knew full well what the diary would do. If it was just a matter of Lucius offloading some of his illegal dark artefacts onto an innocent child, it would be despicable enough, but it would not be enough to lead to the claim that there was a plan to make terrible things happen at Hogwarts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
Whatever you get for being accessory to conspiracy. Knowing about crimes and not doing anything about them is still a punishable offense.
I agree. Narcissa is at the very least an accessory.


__________________

Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632
"Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous
"Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.
Reply With Quote
  #240  
Old November 10th, 2012, 6:55 am
ShadowSonic  Male.gif ShadowSonic is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 1059 days
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,090
Re: Did the Malfoys get what they deserved in DH?

What Lucius did to Ginny gets overlooked, most likely because it was in an earlier book back when the series was less serious and more "Generic Fantasy Adventures". If it happened in POA or GOF odds are it would've been remembered more.


Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 3:56 pm.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.