General 'What If...?' Thread

[RegulusBlackFan]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

If Snape had been able to make good friends with a Slyth-Sirius, though, I don't think he would have become mixed up with the proto-DEs in that house in the first place. It seemed to me that Snape's attraction to the pre-DE students in his house was partly to do with the fact that he didn't have many friends and it was probably difficult for him to make them anyway and that was a group that seemed to accept him into their fold without much, or any, question. If Snape was hooked up with a non-blood-prejudiced friend like Slyth-Sirius, especially an out-going one who had the social skills to build a core group of friends, though, he would likely have been accepted into the fold of an anti-blood prejudice group of friends and he wouldn't feel the need to join this other group to feel like he belonged somewhere.

I certainly agree, Snape only became friends with the worst slytherins because he was isolated elsewhere. A slyth-Sirius (asuming he isn't a completely different character) in my opinionn could have provided a good friend to Severus. They could have formed a trio with lilly but I see Sirius and Severus having more friends and perhaps acting as a buffer between the Gryffindors/Ravenclaws/Hufflepuffs and the proto-death eater slytherins.

[RegulusBlackFan]

What if Voldemort had come to Hogwarts through the vannisjing cabinet during the battle of the astronomy tower?

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by RegulusBlackFan

I certainly agree, Snape only became friends with the worst slytherins because he was isolated elsewhere. A slyth-Sirius (asuming he isn't a completely different character) in my opinionn could have provided a good friend to Severus. They could have formed a trio with lilly but I see Sirius and Severus having more friends and perhaps acting as a buffer between the Gryffindors/Ravenclaws/Hufflepuffs and the proto-death eater slytherins.

The juvenile delinquents that were the wannabe DEs at Hogwarts did not need a buffer between them and the other Houses. Open, outspoken opposition to their malice from within their own House would have been far better.

IMO, if a Slytherin-Sirius retained his opposition to the evil of the Death Eaters, he would not be willing to act as a buffer between miniature DEs and civilised students. He would stand firmly opposed to the Death Eaters, not sit on the fence. IMO, that kind of fence-sitting by the decent Slytherins is what allowed the likes of the Malfoys and most of the Black family to gain such a foothold with their bile.

Originally Posted by RegulusBlackFan

What if Voldemort had come to Hogwarts through the vannisjing cabinet during the battle of the astronomy tower?

Scary thought. I think, though, that Voldemort was scared to face Dumbledore again - that's why he gave the task of murdering Dumbledore to someone else.

However, if he had shown up, it would have been crucial that Snape killed Dumbledore before Voldemort saw his weakened condition and made the connection with his horcrux potion. Before Voldemort murdered him and gained the Elder Wand.

I wonder what Voldemort would try to gain then - when the Hogwarts staff and the Order fought the DEs - would he have fought to the end, or made the same offer as he did in DH? Or would he have left as soon as Dumbledore was dead, sticking to the plan of pulling the strings of a puppet Minister? He would certainly have taken another shot at killing Harry, I think.

[JohanT]

Originally Posted by FurryDice

Scary thought. I think, though, that Voldemort was scared to face Dumbledore again - that's why he gave the task of murdering Dumbledore to someone else.

However, if he had shown up, it would have been crucial that Snape killed Dumbledore before Voldemort saw his weakened condition and made the connection with his horcrux potion. Before Voldemort murdered him and gained the Elder Wand.

I wonder what Voldemort would try to gain then - when the Hogwarts staff and the Order fought the DEs - would he have fought to the end, or made the same offer as he did in DH? Or would he have left as soon as Dumbledore was dead, sticking to the plan of pulling the strings of a puppet Minister? He would certainly have taken another shot at killing Harry, I think.

To address why Voldemort himself did not participate in the removal of Hogwarts' prime authority figure, I assumed the reasoning was partially strategic, though I do not deny that he may very well have been afraid to confront Dumbledore so openly, especially after their fight in the Ministry of Magic. I believe that the central issue was an establishment of loyalty, or, at the very least, a re-establishment (or reassurance) that his Death Eaters remained loyal to him, and him alone. Specifically speaking, Draco's role in this plot was initially played out to be a purposeful failure, a failure that could result in unspeakable things, thus punishing Lucius and Narcissa for their previous actions involving both the fiasco at the Ministry, and Lucius' unfortunate treatment of Riddle's diary. However, were Draco to succeed, he and his family were given hope (though I think a false one) that their positions would be returned to them. So, the situation kills two birds with one stone, as far as I am inclined to see it. Voldemort gives two distinct motivations for the Malfoys to follow through with his orders, and could very well get a dead Dumbledore out of this deal as well.

Oh, but look, there's another bird! Snape's "fickleness" would have been questioned, drawn out, and, most likely, tested. I believe, in the text, that Snape states that Voldemort intended for him to do the job, if Draco were unsuccessful. Now, this job does not involve just murdering an Order member or an enemy. This is murdering the other man who also employed Snape as the supposed "spy". Essentially, I think Voldemort was looking to see where Snape's true loyalty resided, as once one employer was dead, he would no longer be the questionable double agent.

There also exists the fact that Snape and Draco were situated quite snuggly in Hogwarts' scene already. While Dumbledore's suspicions may fall on one, they may not fall on the other. The one Voldemort may have believed to be the least likely, in Dumbledore's eyes, to betray him would be Snape. I think the situation in which Snape kills Dumbledore appealed to Voldemort simply because, in the end, Dumbledore would be proven to be mistaken. All along, Voldemort was right under his nose, and he never realized it until it was too late. I see it as gloating, almost.

[RegulusBlackFan]

What if when Tom Riddle applied to his job of defense against the dark arts, he had stolen the Sorting Hat and turned it into a Hocrux? How different do you think things would have been?

[asdfasdf17]

Originally Posted by RegulusBlackFan

What if when Tom Riddle applied to his job of defense against the dark arts, he had stolen the Sorting Hat and turned it into a Hocrux? How different do you think things would have been?

The sorting hat may have automatically sorted all pure-bloods into Slytherin and everyone else into another house. I don't think the sorting would have been as fair anymore. Dumbledore may have noticed something was wrong and he may have known it was a Horcrux (but that depends on when he started to suspect Voldemort of making Horcruxes). If he did guess it was Horcrux, he probably wouldn't have used it for sorting anymore and would have gotten rid of it perhaps. If he didn't know, that he probably would have kept the hat. Regarding Harry's sorting, I think the Horcrux-hat would definitely have sorted him into Slytherin if it recognized Voldemort's soul in Harry. I don't know how much influence it would have on Harry because the student's only wear the Hat for a few moments.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by RegulusBlackFan

What if when Tom Riddle applied to his job of defense against the dark arts, he had stolen the Sorting Hat and turned it into a Hocrux? How different do you think things would have been?

I think it would have been quite hard for him to do so. The Hat was in Dumbledore's office, under the eye of the past Heads' portraits, even when Dumbledore himself was not there. And given how much Dumbledore mistrusted Riddle, I doubt he would have left him alone in the office. If he had turned the Hat into a horcrux while the portraits were feigning sleep, they would immediately have told Dumbledore. I imagine, however, that such a powerful dark spell would leave a residue, such as the one Dumbledore found in the cave, so he would detect that Riddle had done something. That's assuming he left the Hat after turning it into a horcrux. Trying to steal it would raise unnecessary suspicions.

[quote]

Originally Posted by asdfasdf17

The sorting hat may have automatically sorted all pure-bloods into Slytherin and everyone else into another house.

Would it have done something so obvious and so certain to draw attention to itself? The diary horcrux feigned decency and kindness. Surely, if Riddle had somehow turned the Sorting Hat into a horcrux without Dumbledore or the portraits knowing, he would want it to draw as little attention as possible to its change in nature. Sorting all purebloods into Slytherin would be drawing unnecessary atttention to itself, and raising questions about what exactly was going on. Particularly when not all purebloods had the traits for Slytherin; not all purebloods valued Slytherin priorities. When not all purebloods wanted to be in Slytherin or considered pureblood as remotely important. It's not just pureblood that means one is sorted into Slytherin - it's also placing a premium on that pureblood, believing that it's something important and better. Voldemort would not want his horcrux to make itself obvious by suddenly sorting many (all?) "blood traitor" children into Slytherin.

I don't think the sorting would have been as fair anymore. Dumbledore may have noticed something was wrong and he may have known it was a Horcrux (but that depends on when he started to suspect Voldemort of making Horcruxes).

I think he would not have left Riddle unattended in his office. I think Riddle would not have had any unrestrained access to the items in Dumbledore's office, including the Sorting Hat.

[LeviathanMammal]

What if Riddle had actually *hidden* the Diadem in the RoR instead of just setting it somewhere? IE, if he put it in a bag with an Extension Charm, or, y'know, just put a bag over it or something, so that Harry couldn't find it just by looking around?

[witchsmart]

Originally Posted by LeviathanMammal

What if Riddle had actually *hidden* the Diadem in the RoR instead of just setting it somewhere? IE, if he put it in a bag with an Extension Charm, or, y'know, just put a bag over it or something, so that Harry couldn't find it just by looking around?

Riddle's main fault there was that he was under the impression that he alone had discovered all of Hogwarts's secrets--i.e. that he was the only student to discover the Room of Requirement (an interesting theory, considering how much stuff was in there from other students, but nevermind). Also (and I could be remembering this completely wrong, I don't have my books with me to double-check) but did Harry use an Accio charm at one point to grab the diadem?

I suppose another thing we could consider is that Riddle was younger and possibly more reckless with his horcruxes. At that point (again, I don't have my books so I can't double-check this) I think he already had the ring and the diary, so maybe he thought "well I don't need to go to great lengths to hide this in a room I already think no one can find especially when I have two other horcruxes anyway."

That's just my speculation though.

[TreacleTartlet]

Originally Posted by LeviathanMammal

What if Riddle had actually *hidden* the Diadem in the RoR instead of just setting it somewhere? IE, if he put it in a bag with an Extension Charm, or, y'know, just put a bag over it or something, so that Harry couldn't find it just by looking around?

I think that Voldemort probably thought that he was the only one to discover the Room of Requirement, which is why he didn't bother with further protection charms. Also it was quite a bit of luck that Harry came across the diadem in the first place, imo.

Originally Posted by witchsmart

Riddle's main fault there was that he was under the impression that he alone had discovered all of Hogwarts's secrets--i.e. that he was the only student to discover the Room of Requirement (an interesting theory, considering how much stuff was in there from other students, but nevermind).

He may have thought that the room had provided all the other object. When Harry wanted the room for defence practice for Dumbledore's Army, it provided DADA books and objects which were helpful.

Also (and I could be remembering this completely wrong, I don't have my books with me to double-check) but did Harry use an Accio charm at one point to grab the diadem?

Hermione tries using Accio, but it doesn't work.

I suppose another thing we could consider is that Riddle was younger and possibly more reckless with his horcruxes. At that point (again, I don't have my books so I can't double-check this) I think he already had the ring and the diary, so maybe he thought "well I don't need to go to great lengths to hide this in a room I already think no one can find especially when I have two other horcruxes anyway."

That's just my speculation though.

Yes, he very well may have become less concerned about protecting his horcruxes the more he had, as it was less likely that someone would find and destroy them all.

[horcrux4]

Originally Posted by TreacleTartlet

I think that Voldemort probably thought that he was the only one to discover the Room of Requirement, which is why he didn't bother with further protection charms. Also it was quite a bit of luck that Harry came across the diadem in the first place, imo.

He may have thought that the room had provided all the other object. When Harry wanted the room for defence practice for Dumbledore's Army, it provided DADA books and objects which were helpful.

I've always assumed that Voldemort thought the Room had provided all the junk if he had asked for somewhere to hide something. I agree that it was spectacularly lucky that Harry had found the diadem already when looking for a hiding place for his Potions book. I mean with all that junk in there he just happened to choose the cupboard the diadem was on ... hmmmm.

Yes, he very well may have become less concerned about protecting his horcruxes the more he had, as it was less likely that someone would find and destroy them all.

I'm not sure about that - wasn't the locket a later horcrux and that was really well protected? It's possible, if he hid the horcrux when he came to see Dumbledore about a job, that he didn't have enough time to do anything extra to protect it.

[witchsmart]

Originally Posted by horcrux4

I'm not sure about that - wasn't the locket a later horcrux and that was really well protected? It's possible, if he hid the horcrux when he came to see Dumbledore about a job, that he didn't have enough time to do anything extra to protect it.

That's a good point, though it did make me think about how Voldemort protected certain horcruxes.

The fact is, most of the horcruxes weren't give all that much protection. The diary was given to Malfoy without his knowing what it was, the cup had good protection in the LeStrange's vault, but that was only after Voldemort entrusted it to Bellatrix, presumably after his return (though I could be wrong), so it might have had less security beforehand. The diadem, as we've said, was placed in the Room of Requirement without additional protective spells, and making Nagini, a living thing, a horcrux was a rather dangerous move.

The only horcruxes (again, with the possible exception of Hufflepuff's cup) that seem to receive the most protection were Slytherin's locket (arguably the most highly protected of the horcruxes) and the Peverell ring (which had the curse placed on it that would have ended Dumbledore's life).

Was it perhaps, not the horcrux, but the value of the object itself that affected how well Voldemort would protect it? I think you could argue that he valued Slytherin's locket the most (interesting, seeing a muggle tramp had the honor of helping him make it into a horcrux), as it proved his connection to the Salazar line. Similarly, the ring showed his descent from a very powerful wizarding family.

I think it speaks to Voldemort's arrogance that he didn't keep all of these horcruxes very carefully guarded. Or is it more of a reckless youth thing? Most of the horcruxes were made pre-Voldemort, and while the locket was created earlier on, we know that he moved it to the cave much later in life.

Either way, it's interesting to think about how much the protection around these precious objects varies.

[LeviathanMammal]

This doesn't do much to explain his treatment of the diadem, which, despite having less personal connection to Voldemort, was probably more valuable than the locket, or the ring, assuming you didn't know the ring contained a hallow, which Voldemort didn't.

[witchsmart]

Originally Posted by LeviathanMammal

This doesn't do much to explain his treatment of the diadem, which, despite having less personal connection to Voldemort, was probably more valuable than the locket, or the ring, assuming you didn't know the ring contained a hallow, which Voldemort didn't.

Exactly. Which I why I feel that Voldemort's treatment of the objects he turned into horcruxes depended on his personal attachment to them, rather than on their actual value.

But, of course, there is the issue of Hufflepuff's cup, which was well-guarded, although we're not sure at what point Voldemort placed it in the LeStrange's vault. Though I think someone mentioned above that Voldemort probably didn't have much time to stash the diadem, which could explain the lack of protection surrounding it (though as we've been told, Gringotts is the safest place on earth to keep something--except maybe for Hogwarts).

[witchsmart]

What if someone decided to become a phoenix-animagus? Would they be able to rebirth themselves from the ashes in phoenix form every time they grew old? Could they become immortal in this way? Do we even know if it's possible to choose a magical creature as your animagus form?

[OldMotherCrow]

I don't think the person gets to choose their form, and there are no examples of magical creature form animagus in the books.

However, if one was possible, and it was a phoenix form, I don't think the person would be able to get the phoenix's life-cycle. I think witches and wizards keep their own human lifespan. I think we see this in Animagi like Peter Pettigrew, who spent years in rat-form, far beyond the normal lifespan of a rat. So I would say that lifespan was measured in human terms even in Animagus form, and Animagus form would not give any benefits or detriments to the human's allotted years.

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by OldMotherCrow

I don't think the person gets to choose their form, and there are no examples of magical creature form animagus in the books.

Yes, JKR confirmed that one doesn't choose her animagus form in an interview. Accio-Quote isn't functioning at the moment so I can't give the reference.