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#1141
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
I think Harry's protection came because Voldemort decided to honour Snape's request and gave Lily three chances to step aside. Otherwise I don't think such a protection could have occurred. James died and yet that couldn't save Lily. Lilly's death on the other hand gave Harry a protection because Voldemort decided to honour Snape's request and then went on to kill her. That I think protected Harry.
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The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly :indy: |
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#1142
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
The reason it worked for Lily and not James was because Voldemort gave her a chance to actually do something. He killed James too quickly for James to do much except reach for his wand.
With Lily, she started screaming about killing her instead of Harry. Voldemort then got impatient and just AK'ed her on the spot, inadvertently creating an agreement between them (she said to kill her and not Harry, him killing her meant he agreed via actions). Thus he could not kill Harry because he'd accidentally agreed to her terms. If he'd just knocked her out, or shoved her aside, or killed her before she could say anything, then there'd be no protection and they'd all be dead. |
#1143
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
Why did Voldemort give Muggleborn Lily a choice to live that he did not give Pureblood James? Voldemort was against Muggleborns. I don't think he would have given Lily a choice to live without reason. So if I have to search for a reason, then the only reason that seems possible to me is that Voldemort, for some reason decided to honour Snape's request to him to spare Lilys life. I believe Harry's protection came because of that. Not anything else.
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The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly :indy: |
#1144
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
Well, was Lily armed with a wand at the time? Voldemort killed James because he had his wand. He probably didn't see her as a threat right then and there, someone not worth his attention.
It wasn't so much a real choice to live, IMO, it was him just wanting to kill this Prophecy Baby first and foremost. Lily was unarmed and (in his mind) not a threat so he could just shove past her. Unfortunately he lost his temper and killed just when she coincidentally said just the right thing to create the love protection. |
#1145
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
I don't think James or Lily were having their wands with them when they were killed; I'm not sure though. Lily and James defied Voldemort three times and they were also members of the Order that stood against Voldemort. Many members were targets and many were killed by Voldemort personally. I think the Potters were targets too, because they along with the Longbottoms defied Voldemort and survived three times. I think Voldemort saw her and James as a threat long before the Prophecy. If Voldemort gave her a chance to step aside I think it was because he wanted to spare her for Snape who had requested Voldemort for her life.
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The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly :indy: |
#1146
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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However, I do agree that even if Voldemort intended to kill Lily after Harry, his giving Lily a choice that she refused in an effort to protect her son cemented the love/blood protection. James was not given such a choice. Similarly, in DH, Harry was given the choice by Voldemort to meet him in the forest to "save" his friends or to hide, in which case he would enter the battle and kill more of his friends. Harry choosing to sacrifice himself instead of others - a choice Voldemort voiced - instilled that love protection in the fighters of Hogwarts, too. I agree. It was Lily's choice to die for her child rather than save her own life that allowed Harry to live. Lily would not have had that choice had Snape not asked Voldemort to spare her and had Voldemort not offered to spare her for Snape. Otherwise, I expect Voldemort would have killed James and then killed Lily without fuss (no "stand aside") before killing Harry. Therefore, Snape asking Voldemort to spare Lily (and Voldemort acting on that request) is paramount to Harry receiving the blood/love protection.
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#1147
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
James did not have his wand when he ran out to face Voldemort. I don't think Lily had her wand either. If she did she made no attempt to use it. I think the point of that was that neither were at that moment any threat to Voldemort when he chose to murder them, i.e., there was no "justification' for killing them.
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I think Voldemort did consider sparing her because of Snape's request, but it is Voldemort's personality foible that turned that into a contract, because he decided he needed to talk to her and turn it into a choice for her rather than just incapacitate her and get on with murdering Harry. I think Voldemort liked presenting his victims with cruel choices, because he liked to make his victims feel like the cruelty he inflicted was somehow something they chose. Or maybe he truly feels magnanimous when he does that-- he does genuinely seem to feel like he can murder whomsoever he wants, like their lives belong to him, so maybe he feels big when he offers people these false choices. Because Lily didn't choose what he offered, but instead countered with an offer of her own, this time it cme back to bite Voldemort for breaking the agreement. I think the same thing happened at the end of Deathly Hallows, when Voldemort agreed not to attack the castle if Harry came to him (this time terms Voldemort picked himself), and then Voldemort immediately went to attack the castle after he got Harry. I guess the lesson here is beware what magical contracts one enters into!
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".... You've chosen your way, I've chosen mine."
I love Lily because she chooses a path to match her convictions, and chooses to live her life fighting for what is right. It is our choices that show who we truly are. "UNTIL THE VERY END" -- JK Rowling to Harry Potter fans at the beginning of Deathly Hallows, and James Potter to his son at the end of Deathly Hallows. |
#1148
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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There is no reason in the Books to my understanding for Voldemort to open a dialogue/contract with Lily when he had just killed James and when Lily knew he was intending to kill baby Harry. I think Snape was the reason (taking the Prophecy) Voldemort targeted the Potters specifically (to kill Harry), though I do believe they were pretty high on the list of wanted people long before the prophecy, but I also think it was because of Snape that Harry got his protection that ensured his survival in the end. That this type of protection would be received by Harry is something No one would have never known or planned for, so the Potters need not have died. Quote:
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The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly :indy: |
#1149
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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#1150
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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".... You've chosen your way, I've chosen mine."
I love Lily because she chooses a path to match her convictions, and chooses to live her life fighting for what is right. It is our choices that show who we truly are. "UNTIL THE VERY END" -- JK Rowling to Harry Potter fans at the beginning of Deathly Hallows, and James Potter to his son at the end of Deathly Hallows. Last edited by OldMotherCrow; June 29th, 2015 at 5:09 am. |
#1151
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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#1152
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
For sadism, maybe? If he really intended to honor Snape's request, he wouldn't have bothered talking to her at all and just knocked her out or something.
Seems like he only half-considered Snape's request. |
#1153
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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Yeah, probably sadism. Voldemort may have let her live had she stepped aside, but as she didn't, I think she quickly ceased to be entertaining to him, and he seemed to feel that her being an inconvenience to him was the bigger issue. I also don't think Voldemort thinks much of his followers either, so even an easily filled request by one of them isn't going to get priority over inconvenience.
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".... You've chosen your way, I've chosen mine."
I love Lily because she chooses a path to match her convictions, and chooses to live her life fighting for what is right. It is our choices that show who we truly are. "UNTIL THE VERY END" -- JK Rowling to Harry Potter fans at the beginning of Deathly Hallows, and James Potter to his son at the end of Deathly Hallows. |
#1154
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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Lily stood in front of her baby, wanting to protect him somehow, just as James did downstairs. James's death did not protect Lily, and I think the situation at Godrics Hollow was somewhat similar to the situation between Harry and Peter in POA. Dumbledore called it magic of the deepest kind. I think that magic was pure intent in an extremely charged atmosphere. Accidental magic occurs when small children are emotionally charged and I think the magic that happened at Godrics hollow was like that. Voldemort came with the intention to spare Lily. That intention was because of Snape's request. Voldemort himself was extremely charged up emotionally because he thought he was going to remove the one obstacle to his immortality. Lily was emotionally charged because she was dealing with a betrayal of someone they thought a friend, the death of her husband and facing not only her own death but also the death of her beloved baby. All those emotions exploded when Voldemort killed Lily and cast the AK on Harry. Voldemort was reduced to a spirit because two people wanted someone other than Voldemort to live and Voldemort started off by honoring Snape's request. I think without Snape's request, Voldemort would have never asked Lily to step aside. That is the most important thing that happened in that room, because without Snape's request Voldemort would have killed Lily straight away, like he did James and then whatever Lily wished, it would have never translated into any kind of protection. James did try and hold off Voldemort. He shouted to Lily asking her to take Harry and run. Yet that did not result in a protection for Lily, because no one asked Voldemort for James's life and Voldemort never agreed to spare James. Quote:
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Had she stepped aside too, I think Harry would have died. But Lily simply stood there asking Voldemort to spare Harry, keeping Snape's request about which she knew nothing, alive. When she died she passed on that request of Snape to Harry, who received the protection Snape wanted for Lily and Lily wanted for Harry. Quote:
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__________________
The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly :indy: |
#1155
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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#1156
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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Statistically speaking, this had to have happened before. Dumbledore and Voldemort knew what kind of magic had been used to create the Protection and both identified it as "Ancient" which means this sort of thing has been happening since ancient times. I think with Harry, it's not so much the wonder of the protection as it is that he is the most High Profile case. Situations like his (someone sacrificing themselves for another) are kind of common. It's just that in his case, it involved someone High Profile like Voldemort and ended the Major War happening. So it attracted more attention and more effort was put into Harry's case to scare off the Death Eaters. |
#1157
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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I feel that without Snape's request, that night would have resulted in the death of a family because of the betrayal of someone they thought a friend. For me it was Snape's request that changed everything, because it gave Harry a powerful protection against Voldemort. Quote:
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The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly :indy: |
#1158
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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#1159
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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#1160
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21
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__________________
The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly :indy: |
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