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Little Questions Answered v.19



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 6th, 2011, 11:54 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

Quote:
Originally Posted by katielouise View Post
The Elder Wand was Snape's.
Snape killed Dumbledore, but he didn't take the wand and it was kept with Dumbledore in his coffin. Voldemort got the wand from the coffin, but it wouldn't work as it should for him, because the wand was Snape's. That's why he then killed Snape.

At least, that's what I got from it.
Well, Voldemort thought Snape was the owner; as you said that's why he killed him. The problem is he didn't know what happened on the Tower when Snape killed Dumbledore.

It was Dumbledore's plan for Snape to become the owner of the Elder Wand, however, Draco had disarmed Dumbledore before Snape appeared on the Tower transferring the magic of the Elder Wand to Draco's wand. Yes, I know, very confusing since Draco didn't take literal possession of Dumbledore's wand, which was buried with him. If Snape had been the owner, Harry couldn't have gained possession of the Elder Wand, which he did when he took Draco's wand from him at Malfoy Manor.


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  #22  
Old May 6th, 2011, 11:55 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

Draco was the master of the Elder Wand because he took the Elder Wand away from its previous master, Dumbledore, via the expelliarmus charm several minutes before Snape even came up to the top of the Astronomy tower. Dumbledore had intended that Snape would get the wand when Snape killed him as planned, but Draco got in the way of that plan when he disarmed Albus. Snape never had a chance at the Elder Wand, which makes his death that much more a tragedy, in that it served no purpose whatsoever to anyone, even Voldemort. And Draco won the loyalty of the Elder Wand without knowing that he had done so, meaning that young Malfoy was the master of the Wand without ever touching it.


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Last edited by Anhelda; May 6th, 2011 at 11:57 pm.
  #23  
Old May 7th, 2011, 12:00 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

So, Draco did always have the elder wand? Not Snape? I definitely missed that. All this wand talk is confusing xD I do not understand it well enough aha.

And I am now even more annoyed that Voldemort ending up killing Snape for no reason!


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  #24  
Old May 7th, 2011, 12:01 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

Draco disarmed Dumbledore on top of the Astronomy tower. He was master of the Elder Wand but never knew it. Then, at Malfoy Manor, Harry took Draco's wand from him by force, making him the master of the Elder Wand. Apparently, you don't actually have to have the wand in your posession [at the time the Elder Wand was in the tomb with Dumbledore's body] to be the master or to lose mastery of it. [phew!] Will stop babbling myself now!


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  #25  
Old May 7th, 2011, 12:06 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhm View Post
Who was the real owner of the Elder Wand after Dumbledore, before Harry? I might be really slow... but was it really Draco? Because I thought Dumbledore had planned Snape to own it? And how did that happen?

Draco was the master of the Elder Wand, as he had forceably removed it from Dumbledoor with Expelliamus spell when he first got to the Astronomy Tower. Draco never took possesion of the Elder Wand, buts its allegiance switched to him at that point so that when Harry wrestles Draco's normal wand away from him by force at Malfoy Manor, Harry became master of the Elder Wand....and the rest is history.

From what I understand, Dumbledoor's original plan was not for Snape to become master of the Elder Wand, as Snape did not forceably kill Dumbledoor, he was asked to kill him (suicide by wand). The great power of the Elder Wand would have died with Dumbledoor had that happened, as he would have never been defeated....except that Draco disarmed him first. Even if Voldermort still stole the Elder Wand from Dumbledoor's tomb in the original plan, it would have preformed the same as it did for Voldermort & it would not have helped Harry in the final battle, IMO (though his mother's & his own protection should have hopefully).

Here is a thought for the 'What ifs'....what if Dumbledoor died as a result of the curse from the Ring or as a result of the potion he drank in the cave? Either would have been the result of Voldermort, so the Elder Wand might have given its allegiance to Voldermort hypothetically. All the more reason that Snape had to AK Dumbledoor IMO.


  #26  
Old May 7th, 2011, 12:13 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocat View Post
Here is a thought for the 'What ifs'....what if Dumbledoor died as a result of the curse from the Ring or as a result of the potion he drank in the cave? Either would have been the result of Voldermort, so the Elder Wand might have given its allegiance to Voldermort hypothetically. All the more reason that Snape had to AK Dumbledoor IMO.
Those have a lot more implications than just the Elder Wand's change of allegiance. Had Dumbledore died in the cave, Harry would probably be arrested, on the run, the entire wizarding world would look down on him, it'd be a repeat of OotP - Harry is alone with someone, they end up dead. Had he died from the ring's curse, Harry would never have learned about horcruxes and Voldemort would win.


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  #27  
Old May 7th, 2011, 12:37 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

well it's good to see that I wasn't the only one confused about the elder wand and who was it's "master"


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  #28  
Old May 7th, 2011, 12:45 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

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Originally Posted by Liselle View Post
well it's good to see that I wasn't the only one confused about the elder wand and who was it's "master"
That is part of the brillance of the books....just when you think you understand it, another piece falls into place that makes you question what you thought you knew. Its taken me a lot of readings/listening to audiobook to really get it to the point I'm comfortable trying to explain it to someone else


  #29  
Old May 7th, 2011, 1:29 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocat View Post
Draco was the master of the Elder Wand, as he had forceably removed it from Dumbledoor with Expelliamus spell when he first got to the Astronomy Tower. Draco never took possesion of the Elder Wand, buts its allegiance switched to him at that point so that when Harry wrestles Draco's normal wand away from him by force at Malfoy Manor, Harry became master of the Elder Wand....and the rest is history.

From what I understand, Dumbledoor's original plan was not for Snape to become master of the Elder Wand, as Snape did not forceably kill Dumbledoor, he was asked to kill him (suicide by wand). The great power of the Elder Wand would have died with Dumbledoor had that happened, as he would have never been defeated....except that Draco disarmed him first. Even if Voldermort still stole the Elder Wand from Dumbledoor's tomb in the original plan, it would have preformed the same as it did for Voldermort & it would not have helped Harry in the final battle, IMO (though his mother's & his own protection should have hopefully).
Exactly. Snape was not ever intended to become master of the Elder Wand. This is why when Harry tells Voldemort that Dumbledore's plan had backfired, Voldemort believes that the backfire was when Snape killed him and thus took ownership of the wand. Voldemort's two mistakes are a) not believing that Snape had been ordered to kill Dumbledore by Dumbledore himself and b) not realizing that Draco had won ownership first, making whether Snape actually defeated Dumbledore a moot point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
When Harry asks Ollivander about Draco's wand, Ollivander says "Subtle laws govern wand ownership, but the conquered wand will usually bend its will to its new master." He also tells Ron of Pettigrew's wand "Yes, if you won it, it is more likely to do your bidding and do it well, than another wand." He doesn't mention what happens if you get your wand back without winning it.
Given the comments about "subtle laws" and "usually," I would say that it is not so easy to take ownership of the wand. I would also maintain that you don't need to be the wizard chosen by the wand in order to work magic with it, as we see with Harry using Hermione's wand (though less effectively). To me, in order to win a wand from someone, it would need to be a wand which truly recognizes you as a more suitable wizard than the previous, and I don't think that would be the case if you merely punched your friend in the arm and picked up his dropped wand.

I would also drive home how different the Elder Wand is by pointing out once again how the Elder Wand does not need to be physically won or magically overcome in order to switch allegiance. It needs only to see one wizard as more powerful than its owner.


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  #30  
Old May 7th, 2011, 5:29 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

In looking through Chambers of Secrets, did only the females fall for Lockhart's charms or where there any males who liked him? Ron and Harry didn't. This was way back in Chap.6, when they were stuck rounding up the pixies. Both Ron and Harry had their doubts about Lockhart's abilities but Hermione thought he was amazing, because he wrote all those books.


  #31  
Old May 7th, 2011, 5:55 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymarge View Post
In looking through Chambers of Secrets, did only the females fall for Lockhart's charms or where there any males who liked him? Ron and Harry didn't. This was way back in Chap.6, when they were stuck rounding up the pixies. Both Ron and Harry had their doubts about Lockhart's abilities but Hermione thought he was amazing, because he wrote all those books.
Lockhart boasted so much about himself, I don't think there'd be many guys who liked him. Ron had Lockhart's number from the beginning about if he's done what the books say ("He says he's done").


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  #32  
Old May 7th, 2011, 5:59 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

I thought Ernie McMillian or Justin Finch-Fletchey had made a statement about his accomplishments, during a Herbology lesson?


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  #33  
Old May 7th, 2011, 6:00 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

I think Justin liked Lockhart, and gave his books to his mother to convince her of how great it would be to have a wizard in the family.


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  #34  
Old May 7th, 2011, 1:00 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

In OOTP, basically, Voldemort wants this prophecy (and only the people who can touch are those about whom it was made) but he doesn't want to reveal himself because he loves that the Ministry is being so ignorant about his return. So he devises a plan to get Harry to retrieve the prophecy (which is in the form of an orb) for him, so that he doesn't risk being caught. So he does a bit of mental trickery on Harry, so that he goes to the Ministry thinking that he is saving his godfather who is supposedy being tortured. However, his godfather is not at the Ministry at all. Voldemort planted the vision of him being tortured in Harry's head to lure him to the prophecy that he wants so badly.

This is such a big plot hole!

When Harry gets to the Ministry, there is NO SECURITY! He just walks into Minstry and then continues his leisurely stroll into the Department of Mysteries (where the prophecy is) with as little resistance as somebody walking into their own bathroom.

So basically Voldemort devises this plan on the basis of not wanting to be detected and Harry just walks in there and doesn't encounter a single guard. It was ridiculous. Basically, Voldemort could have just went in there and got it himself with no trouble since there was no security.

I just can't see how a plothole that large got past her and the editors. Why didn't anybody see how weird and nonsensical it was for there to be no security?


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  #35  
Old May 7th, 2011, 1:48 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

I think it was Lucius plan, and since Lucius is working in the Ministry of Magic, maybe he persuade Cornelius on losing the Ministry's guards? Or he took care of the security.


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  #36  
Old May 7th, 2011, 2:27 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhm View Post
I think it was Lucius plan, and since Lucius is working in the Ministry of Magic, maybe he persuade Cornelius on losing the Ministry's guards? Or he took care of the security.
then Voldy himself could have gone. Why doesn't he go? Why elaborate on such a long and tedious plan when he could have done it himself?


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  #37  
Old May 7th, 2011, 2:29 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

If you guys want to have a longer discussion about this plothole, please go to our special thread: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v3


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  #38  
Old May 7th, 2011, 2:33 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

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Originally Posted by Hes View Post
If you guys want to have a longer discussion about this plothole, please go to our special thread: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v3
ok boss


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  #39  
Old May 7th, 2011, 3:36 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

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Originally Posted by the_archer View Post
When Harry gets to the Ministry, there is NO SECURITY! He just walks into Minstry and then continues his leisurely stroll into the Department of Mysteries (where the prophecy is) with as little resistance as somebody walking into their own bathroom.
There's also a thread about the Security of the Ministry of Magic.

I have a question; why is it said that Harry possesses the power of love, which would help him defeat Voldemort (as the Prophecy states), when it's his mother's love that saved him? .


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  #40  
Old May 7th, 2011, 3:47 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.19

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Originally Posted by bellatrix93 View Post
There's also a thread about the Security of the Ministry of Magic.

I have a question; why is it said that Harry possesses the power of love, which would help him defeat Voldemort (as the Prophecy states), when it's his mother's love that saved him? .
Harry does possess the love power protection, which his mom provided...and which so prevents him from getting murdered the first time and consequently contributes in defeating voldy.


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