Sherlock

[Fawkesfan1]

Originally Posted by ginger1

Sherlock - The Abominable Bride - January 1st 2016

Brilliant. Best thing on the box for a long long time.

Definitely. Just saw it last night and loved it. Perfect mix of mystery and humor .

[Liselle]

I'm wondering if I'm in the minority then - I have to say I enjoyed it with the exception for the last 20 minutes

I have to say, I really enjoyed the opening sequences and the whole setting the scene. The interplay between Sherlock and Watson nicely paralleled by Mycroft and Mary. I admit maybe my dislike of the last 20 mins or so stems from my desire to

Spoiler: show

not have Moriarty not be dead!

[Spacecadet]

Originally Posted by Liselle

I'm wondering if I'm in the minority then - I have to say I enjoyed it with the exception for the last 20 minutes

I have to say, I really enjoyed the opening sequences and the whole setting the scene. The interplay between Sherlock and Watson nicely paralleled by Mycroft and Mary. I admit maybe my dislike of the last 20 mins or so stems from my desire to

Spoiler: show

not have Moriarty not be dead!

I 100% agree with you... I felt so cheated by how this actually turned out. The setup was great the ending definitely fell flat.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by Liselle

I'm wondering if I'm in the minority then - I have to say I enjoyed it with the exception for the last 20 minutes

I have to say, I really enjoyed the opening sequences and the whole setting the scene. The interplay between Sherlock and Watson nicely paralleled by Mycroft and Mary. I admit maybe my dislike of the last 20 mins or so stems from my desire to

Spoiler: show

not have Moriarty not be dead!

Ha! That might indeed explain your disappointment. Actually, I'm glad that

Spoiler: show

there's no actual resurrection for Moriarity.

There was a lot of fascinating information

Spoiler: show

about both Mycroft and Sherlock, their true dynamic. And I expect that John will change quite a bit as far as the way he looks at his place in their relationship. I think that up to this point John hasn't realized the vulnerability Sherlock carries, that what makes Sherlock so brilliant also has a destructive element over which Sherlock has only a perilously tenuous control. I also loved the way Sherlock's psyche interprets both Mycroft and John in his mind palace.

[Melaszka]

Only a week to Series 4! Am i the only one who's excited.

Also, the Moff has said (bold mine):

Interviewer: What do you mean when you say ghosts of the past are coming back?

Moff: By ghosts of the past we mean consequences. There are consequences to the kind of mad cap in-the-moment fun lives that Sherlock and John and Mary lead. There are things that have happened, there are enemies that they have made, there is damage that has been done and some of that is coming back to visit them. There will be surprises and when some of those surprises happen you’ll think “ah I should have seen that coming”.

I have also read interviews where both the Moff and the Cumberbunny suggest that this series will pick up plot arcs that were begun as far back as Series 1 which no fans seem to have noticed. I'm a little sceptical about this (Moffat also said that nobody had correctly guessed how Sherlock defied death in Series 2, when clearly several people had), but I'm excited about seemingly insignificant details/characters from earlier series suddenly becoming hugely significant.

Any ideas, people?

[ginger1]

Well? What do you think?

Personally I loved some bits and hated others.

[Melaszka]

Spoiler: show

To be brutally honest, I was a bit disappointed - felt the pace was too rushed and Mary's life as an elite assassin was more credible and powerful when it was alluded to than when shown on screen.

Also felt that it wasn't credible that John would lock Sherlock out like that, when it really wasn't Sherlock's fault and he's forgiven him so much else previously.

Plus, I feel we've been down the John-painfully-bereaved-and-then-on-non-speakers-with-Sherlock plotline before so recently, it feels repetitive.

But I'm excited by the mystery redhead on the bus who's obviously up to no good and I have read a theory about who she is which has BLOWN MY MIND. If it turn out to be true, it will be the biggest coup de television ever.

[ginger1]

Oh, go on, Melaszka, give us some hints about the redhead ... anything to keep me quiet until next Sunday ...

[Melaszka]

Originally Posted by ginger1

Oh, go on, Melaszka, give us some hints about the redhead ... anything to keep me quiet until next Sunday ...

Spoiler: show

"I gave you my number. I was hoping that you'd call"

[ginger1]

Well, in my humble opinion, tonight's episode was one of the best ever.

[Melaszka]

I thought it was very good - maybe not up there with A Scandal in Belgravia, A Study in Pink or The Reichenbach Fall, but on a par with The Great Game.

[Schlubalybub]

Episode one

Spoiler: show

I'm in the minority, but I really liked it. Dan was certain that the redhead was trouble, and not just for John and Mary's relationship, but I'll touch on that when I talk about the second episode.
With John, I understand why he was shutting Sherlock out. Mary was right. I need to rewatch,and when I do, I'll talk about it more.

Episode two

Spoiler: show

Well. A fantastic episode. Mrs Hudson was brilliant. She said all the things I've been thinking about Sherlock for years. Mainly that he is a very emotional man, no matter how hard he tries to claim otherwise. I mean, when I saw the "go to hell, sherlock" bit at the end of the credits, I thought that Mary meant that he had to suffer to help John, and my god, did he suffer!

Sherlock and John near the end were brilliant. Dan and I were discussing whether Sherlock had been talking to Mary as much as John had, or if he was just filling in the blanks based on what John was saying, and how well he knows him.

And I thought that the therapist was the same woman who went to see Sherlock, and not the daughter, but I didn't say anything, because I'm well known for thinking that two characters are the same person in my house.

And...is she Sherringford? Or is she another one? Again, I need a rewatch, because I got confused...she said her name was something else, but it got so intense, I forgot what she said. But bloody hell, what an ending!

Spoiler free comments: I liked episode one. I absolutely adored episode two

Ooh, I just remembered

Spoiler: show

Mycroft was actually tempted by Lady Smallwood? Big development. And Sherlock admitting that he occasionally texts The Woman? Just said to make John feel better, or truth?

And I will admit it. Yes, I was sobbing by the time Sherlock actually hugged John. Before it happened, I had tears in my eyes and said to Dan "Sherlock's gonna do an emotion, isn't he?" But even though I expected the hug, I was still crying when he actually did it. I felt that Sherlock would do that, but I wasn't sure whether the script would allow him to.

[BrianTung]

Originally Posted by Melaszka

Spoiler: show

To be brutally honest, I was a bit disappointed - felt the pace was too rushed and Mary's life as an elite assassin was more credible and powerful when it was alluded to than when shown on screen.

Also felt that it wasn't credible that John would lock Sherlock out like that, when it really wasn't Sherlock's fault and he's forgiven him so much else previously.

Plus, I feel we've been down the John-painfully-bereaved-and-then-on-non-speakers-with-Sherlock plotline before so recently, it feels repetitive.

But I'm excited by the mystery redhead on the bus who's obviously up to no good and I have read a theory about who she is which has BLOWN MY MIND. If it turn out to be true, it will be the biggest coup de television ever.

Spoilers for Episodes 1 and 2 of Series 4:

Spoiler: show

I didn't find John's lockout of Sherlock to be incredible. He does always forgive Sherlock...eventually. It took him a while when he came back from the dead (from John's perspective), and it took him a while this time, too. Also, although it's mostly not his fault—Mary chose to shield Sherlock*—he did goad the old woman into pulling the trigger. She had the gun, obviously, but might well have gone quietly if Sherlock hadn't been such an obnoxious show-off know-it-all. He escalated the situation needlessly. That's who he is, that's why we love watching him, but the writers don't entirely let him off scot free.

It was repetitive, I agree with that. It also lasted about the same length of (television) time, the better part of one episode. I didn't like the retread.

Regarding the redhead: I didn't have much of an idea about her (although I did feel that she was thoroughly unlikely to be a one-off), but come the second episode, I figured the therapist and the fake daughter were one and the same. I didn't tie them to the redhead, though. That came as a complete surprise.

Possible ties to Moriarty: I have a friend who finds Moriarty (well, his portrayal) rather...distracting and fascinating. Anyway, at the end of Series 3, she was hoping he was alive after all, but admitted that my idea that it was a dead-man's switch was more likely. Evidently, Sherlock and co thought so too. But now maybe the revival was purely Euros's idea, or at least mostly so. Maybe it was a dead-man's switch, but she's piggybacking on it. Anyway, I expect we'll see in the final episode.

I will be disappointed if they choose to end the show after Series 4. I think it would require so much to be tied up in too rushed a fashion to do it justice. But I guess we'll see.

*As an aside, maybe I'll have to watch the first episode again, but the way it was portrayed, Mary's defensive lunge was shown as requiring superhuman speed. They showed the gun being fired first, and then Mary leaping into action. Obviously, unless the bullet is travelling at mule-cart speeds, that's not possible (and then it would at best given her a stomachache). I wonder why they chose to show it that way.

Originally Posted by Melaszka

I thought it was very good - maybe not up there with A Scandal in Belgravia, A Study in Pink or The Reichenbach Fall, but on a par with The Great Game.

Interesting! I really liked "A Scandal in Belgravia" and "A Study in Pink," but I wouldn't call them great episodes, especially the former. Just very good. I liked "The Sign of Three" the same way. In contrast, I find "The Reichenbach Fall" incredibly painful to watch, but it seems to me to reveal a lot about the characters, and the tension is real—real to the point that I can't stand the journalist, who (like Donovan) never gets her comeuppance on screen. And Donovan, geez. At least Anderson shows some remorse. "The Sign of Three" shows her just as dismissive of Sherlock as ever. What a tool.

[ginger1]

Thoughts on the final episode?

[Schlubalybub]

Loved it.

But then again, I've loved all of them.

Spoiler: show

Art Malik was brilliant. Again, emotional Sherlock, which I always like. And Mycroft, who was showing his faults yet again, very well played by Mark Gatiss. Although, I did recognise him straight away in his disguise. But as I've said elsewhere, you don't watch League of Gentlemen for as long as I have without being able to spot Gatiss in makeup and whatnot...fhe amount of characters he played in that.

It was pretty horrific, though. I'll probably need to rewatch soon to put some proper thought into what I want to say.

[Melaszka]

I quite enjoyed it, but I feel the series has got a bit too cartoony now. Overall, I haven't enjoyed Series 3 and 4 as much as the first two series and if they do come back for Series 5 (which is by no means certain - Loo Brealey, who plays Molly, made it sound quite final on Twitter), it's hard to see where they could go from here. I think it's a mistake to just keep going bigger and bolder and twistier.

[ginger1]

I must confess that though I was a totally engulfed and committed viewer, I liked this series less than the previous ones (Loved some parts, hated others). I'm not convinced about the balance between storyline/hype/manipulation.

In some way I hope that the hints are right, and that that was that . The last.

[BrianTung]

Originally Posted by Melaszka

I quite enjoyed it, but I feel the series has got a bit too cartoony now. Overall, I haven't enjoyed Series 3 and 4 as much as the first two series and if they do come back for Series 5 (which is by no means certain - Loo Brealey, who plays Molly, made it sound quite final on Twitter), it's hard to see where they could go from here. I think it's a mistake to just keep going bigger and bolder and twistier.

Spoiler: show

I didn't think she made it seem more final than the episode itself did. They might have thought they made it two-way, capable of ending either Series 4 or the show outright, but it sure felt like a valedictory to me.

I agree with your feelings about this episode, and the show as a whole. It was intriguing, but there's only so many "it didn't really happen" moments you can pull out before people won't invest themselves in the show any further. I was sort of looking forward to Sherlock figuring out the plane situation, and I felt cheated that it never happened.

But the thing is, I feel like the show could easily go back to its central strength: clever mysteries and the moments of insight that unravel them, piece by piece. I don't have to feel like a story is grander in scale to admire it more; a modest logical sleight of hand is more appealing to me than a massive kaleidoscopic hoodwinking. But only time will tell whether they can bring themselves to "rightsize" the drama.

[Sereena]

Spoiler: show

Just saw the season finale yesterday. I liked it but some things were a bit too far fetched for my liking. Eurus playing games with Sherlock was certainly intersting and entertaining to watch but her going from criminal mastermind to scared little girl so quickly was a bit strange. I also couldn't really buy that she manipulated/brain washed everyone in prison. Yes, it's true that brilliant psychopaths are often charismatic but to get into people's minds like that after just one meeting was a bit hard to swallow.

And also, how did they get from the island to Sherlock's family house? They had a boat, sure, but how did Eurus manage to transport three unconscious men a considerable distance by herself? Or maybe the guards helped her? I also thought it was a bit weird that she would impersonate Watson's psychologist and then also flirt with him on the bus. What did she get out of it? Information about Sherlock maybe? As you can see, many question marks. I did enjoy the plane metaphor, that was clever, and also Eurus's character in general (though the long lost sister/brother/son/daughter is a bit of a cliché). Like everyone here, I think this was perhaps the weakest season.

[Moriath]

Originally Posted by Melaszka

I quite enjoyed it, but I feel the series has got a bit too cartoony now. Overall, I haven't enjoyed Series 3 and 4 as much as the first two series and if they do come back for Series 5 (which is by no means certain - Loo Brealey, who plays Molly, made it sound quite final on Twitter), it's hard to see where they could go from here. I think it's a mistake to just keep going bigger and bolder and twistier.

I still haven't made time to watch it because, like you, I loved series one and two and then my passion fizzled out. I'm just not excited about being meta-chided by Moffat for having expectations that aren't the same as his.