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Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3



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  #21  
Old March 24th, 2010, 8:31 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
I don't think the Sorting Hat can foresee the future. If it did, it may not have sorted Voldemort at all but screamed bloody murder. I think it sorted Peter as he saw him then, at eleven.
People don't usually change as easily. What character traits you have at eleven stays with you till life, unless ofcourse if something major happens that turns you around. We haven't seen anything major which causes Peter to change much, he succumbed to peer pressure early at school he did the same as a Death Eater. So that suggests that he had this in his nature right from the beginning something which the Sorting Hat would notice.


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Old March 24th, 2010, 8:43 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
Peter became a traitor only after school. He kept Remus' secret throughout the seven years at Hogwarts and he became an illegal Animagus, too. Later he joined the Order. That's courageous and loyal. Granted, his main motivation for doing these things was peer pressure and the wish to be part of the gang, but he did them.
It was peer pressure and also the wish to be part of the gang as you said; but I'd like to add, that it was also because he felt such actions would reap benefits. He could not/dare not say anything about Remus; he would be thrown from the group and that Peter at the time did not want IMO.

Joining the Order is more interesting; he joined the Order probably because James and Sirius joined it and then maybe because he saw the fear in the Order for Voldemort and his DEs, so went and joined Voldemort too and became a spy for him. He was safe from Voldemort in this way; safe in the war IMO.

I think Peter was in Gryffindor, maybe because he was brave enough to do all this.


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  #23  
Old March 24th, 2010, 8:48 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

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Originally Posted by mysterious View Post
People don't usually change as easily.
I wouldn't count the shaping influences of a terrible war easy. I think the circumstances that drove Peter to betray his friends were extreme. That doesn't excuse his actions in any way.


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  #24  
Old March 24th, 2010, 8:52 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

The Flaw in the Plan, DH...and Phineas Nigellus called, in his high, reedy voice, “And let it be noted that Slytherin House played its part! Let our contribution not be forgotten!”


All the other headmaster who belonged to other houses didn't point out that their house had contributed, but Phineaus did, the reason being Slytherins don't usually end up fighting for others (this war wasn't their as such, because they were safe, or so they thought) but they aren't coward, so bravery without selflessness can be a possible trait for Slytherin as well.

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
I wouldn't count the shaping influences of a terrible war easy. I think the circumstances that drove Peter to betray his friends were extreme. That doesn't excuse his actions in any way.
Thats true the war might have made him switch sides (we don't know for sure) but then his actions at Hogwarts, they weren't influenced by a war, were they? We don't see him standing up for himself, against James and Sirius.


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Old March 24th, 2010, 10:25 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

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Originally Posted by mysterious View Post
I think bravery by itself isn't the sufficient criteria for landing you up in Gryffindor.
It will be, if it's not overridden by a quality which qualifies you for another House. As someone else said, if he wasn't ambitious enough, loyal enough or smart enough for Slytherin, Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw, respectively, then Gryffindor is his best fit, because there is enough evidence that he exhibited bravery throughout his life - he ran with a werewolf, he joined the Order (an illegal, highly dangerous resistsnce organisation), and he went to Voldemort while still officially a member of that organisation. I don't really see him showing much loyalty, brains or ambition. He explicitly says, and it's confirmed by other characters (Sirius and McGonagall, I think), that what he did, he did it for protection, not because he wanted to rank higher or because he had any means to achieve besides staying safe. He doesn't sound as a very good candidate for any of the other Houses to me.

Quote:
Like I said in above, Voldemort was brave, was he a Gryffindor?
But Voldemort was also extremely ambitious. That likely overshadowed his bravery.


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  #26  
Old March 24th, 2010, 5:48 pm
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

One of my thoughts on why Pettigrew was in Gryffindor... I think the sorting hat not only looked at the characteristics of each student to place them, but also on a "need" basis. Pettigrew (this is my assumption) probably was not an outgoing kid. He needed to be placed with other students who would accept (or at the least, tolerate) him. Sirius, James, and Lupin fit that.

Just as Hermione could have easily been in Ravenclaw, Harry needed her. Can you imagine Harry and Ron trying to figure out everything without Hermione's brains?

We don't really know if the sorting hat can or cannot see the future, but it does seem to have a bit more knowledge about the students than even the students themselves have. I mean, what 11 year old ever describes themselves as brave, loyal, etc? Most would say athletic or something similar.


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  #27  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 9:02 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

Here's my theory:

He's not smart so he didn't belong in Ravenclaw, he's not hard-working and certainly isn't loyal so he didn't belong in Hufflepuff, he didn't have any qualities that Salazaar Slytherin would have appreciated so he wouldn't have been wanted in his house either, and he's not brave so he doesn't fit Griffindor.

He simply didn't fit anywhere so instead of packing him off home the Sorting Hat figured it would just do a toss up and Pete landed in Griffindor.


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  #28  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 9:13 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

DARKastheRAIN, your reasons could very well be why Peter was sorted into Gryffindor. Plus he was brave to join Voldemort; to go on deceiving his friends and the Order and then, brave enough to stay in plain sight for over 13 years as a rat in the Weasley home.


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  #29  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 6:46 pm
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

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Plus he was brave to join Voldemort; to go on deceiving his friends and the Order and then, brave enough to stay in plain sight for over 13 years as a rat in the Weasley home.
Exactly. For me this is like asking why Neville was in Gryffindor. Of course you aren't going to question it after DH and for me it's the same with Wormtail. It just took longer to see that Wormtail was a Gryffindor because he waited to show courage. It took bravery to betray his friends and the Order and turn to Voldemort.
I'm sure Wormtail had a few Gryffindor moments in his years at Hogwarts just like Neville did. We only see the true Gryffindor in both of them later on when the first and second war are in full swing.

If Wormtail truely wasn't fit to be in Gryffindor than I don't think he would have been. Imo it seems the only house he could really be in.


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  #30  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 7:37 pm
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

I think, like everyone else, got to choose to go into the house. He wanted to simply be with his new friends, if he made any, that is.

I think he resembles Karkaroff, somewhat. He acts too cowardly. His cowardice overrides any brave actions.

(all in IMO, unless proven by the books)

EDIT=
Also: I'll have to disagree with Wormtail doing some of those activities with bravery. He seemed to appear as a person to run away from his problems, not being able to face anyone with Harry's parents' deaths (turning into a rat), etc.
One thing though: could the people described what made him courageous to join Voldemort? Because I think that's an interesting and good answer.


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  #31  
Old April 5th, 2010, 3:03 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

I believe that while Wormtail did some of those things with bravery - like cutting off his hand and helping Voldemort rise to power once again - he is not, overall, a brave man. He chose to be in Gryffindor with his 'friends', the Marauders. Wormtail runs away from everything in this series, and like Voldemort said, only returned out of fear.


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  #32  
Old April 5th, 2010, 3:16 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

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Originally Posted by PotterFanDuh View Post
I believe that while Wormtail did some of those things with bravery - like cutting off his hand and helping Voldemort rise to power once again - he is not, overall, a brave man. He chose to be in Gryffindor with his 'friends', the Marauders. Wormtail runs away from everything in this series, and like Voldemort said, only returned out of fear.
Did Peter know any of the Marauders before he was sorted?


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  #33  
Old April 5th, 2010, 4:43 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

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Originally Posted by Slytherin_12 View Post
I think, like everyone else, got to choose to go into the house. He wanted to simply be with his new friends, if he made any, that is.
'If he made any' is a good point as we don't actually see him becoming acquainted with any of his future roomies. Anyway students don't get to choose their house unless the Sorting Hat perceives a conflict. (Contrary to popular belief, Harry didn't actually choose Gryffindor; he just kept whispering 'Not Slytherin, not Slytherin.')


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  #34  
Old April 5th, 2010, 6:39 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

The answer to tat question is simple -- because that's where the Sorting Hat sorted him! Really, you've read all 7 HP books, watched all 6 movies, and you still don't know why people are out into the houses that they are? O.O


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  #35  
Old April 5th, 2010, 9:43 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKastheRAIN View Post
Here's my theory:

He's not smart so he didn't belong in Ravenclaw, he's not hard-working and certainly isn't loyal so he didn't belong in Hufflepuff, he didn't have any qualities that Salazaar Slytherin would have appreciated so he wouldn't have been wanted in his house either, and he's not brave so he doesn't fit Griffindor.

He simply didn't fit anywhere so instead of packing him off home the Sorting Hat figured it would just do a toss up and Pete landed in Griffindor.
I like that theory.
Peter Pettigrew probably doesn't really fit anywhere. Maybe he had had a few brave moments. But overall, he doesn't really look like anything that could be in Gryffindor. Is it bravery to join Voldemort? Is it bravery to betray the Order? I don't think so. He didn't do so out of his own conviction. He simply do so out of fear. And he went back to Voldemort after PoA also simply out of fear, not even out of loyalty to Voldemort.

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  #36  
Old April 5th, 2010, 6:05 pm
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

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Which qualities do you think Peter possessed that landed him in Gryffindor?
Or maybe the Hat thought he wasn't loyal, wasn't a lover of learning, and lacked the correct background for Slytherin (his blood status is unknown in the books, and as far as I know, has not been revealed outside them either).

He may also have wanted to be in that House, figuring all those brave kids would protect him from people in other Houses.


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  #37  
Old April 5th, 2010, 6:16 pm
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

It takes guts to cut off your own limbs.

I think sometimes the hat takes into account the qualities you want/admire as well as those your possess. Perhaps Peter had both the potential for bravery and admiration for that quality at 11. He always seemed very impressed by qualities others had rather than trying to hone his own skills.

I think what prevented Peter from making Slytherin was the fact that he never wanted power so much as protection. A House full of people trying to climb to the top isn't going to give one as much protection as a House where the people are more loyal to one another.

He may also have run into James and Sirius beforehand and been somehow impressed enough to tell the hat he wanted to follow them.


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  #38  
Old April 5th, 2010, 6:46 pm
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

This is a very good question. To be in Gryffindor, you need to be brave. In a way, Peter is. I mean, though he did surrender to Voldemort, in my opinion, it takes bravery to cut off your own arm. He did a lot for Voldemort that many people without bravery couldn't have done.


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  #39  
Old April 6th, 2010, 1:39 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

To reiterate what another poster had put Wormtail may have had the potential to have the bravery in him come out. Neville Longbottom didn't show very much of his bravery either at first but being friends with Harry, Ron, and Hermione he was almost forced to or maybe encouraged to by Harry. It was probably always there but never truly brought to the surface. Of course the sorting hat would know that the potential was there but had to be brought out.

Just a thought.


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  #40  
Old April 10th, 2010, 1:46 am
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Re: Why was Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor? v3

In Harry Potter's adventurous journey into the Pensieve in the Prince's Tale, Dumbledore says to Snape something along the lines of "sometimes it seems we sort too soon." It seems that sometimes sorting can be borderline, or just plain impossible.

It would appear that Peter wasn't loyal, smart or prejudiced/cunning, so he had just as much right to be in Gryffindor as in any of the other houses. I would put forth the idea, bad though it would seem, that just because you are not willing to endure torture in order to save your friends, it does not necessarily mean you are not brave. I mean, doing that would be the absolute epitome of bravery. If that kind of bravery was a prerequisite for being a Gryffindor, then there wouldn't be many students in that house, would there?

I think it is even more of a mystery why Snape got put in Slytherin. He showed before Hogwarts that he had absolutely no problem with mixed blood (and he was a half-blood himself, which technically should have excluded him right away), but he does not really seem that cunning to me. Throughout his life, his most obvious quality is bravery, which makes it a mystery as to why he wasn't a Gryffindor.


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