Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Cloak > The Pensieve

The Two Harrys: Comparing the Potter-verse with the Dresden-verse.



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old June 13th, 2008, 1:45 am
skullangel  Male.gif skullangel is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4639 days
Posts: 332
Re: The Two Harrys: Comparing the Potter-verse with the Dresden-verse.

Hi! found your post, you refered it to me. Indeed there is another tread in this complicated world that could easily tie Star Wars, Harry Potter and Harry Dresden, its belief you could do something. Yoda once said and it is applicable to all three... Do or Do not there is no try.

All three have been down that road before. Another common thread is channeling power for the galaxy that to quote it simply "binds the universe together"


__________________

Who the Heck Recast?

See my HP music videos at Youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAAm8ogssSU What is behind the Shell?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBRqBm52n-8 Is Harry "Good Enough" by Evanescence
Read My Crossover Fanfic: Goblet of Fire
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=114176
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #22  
Old June 13th, 2008, 7:24 pm
SusanBones's Avatar
SusanBones  Female.gif SusanBones is offline
Inconceivable!
 
Joined: 5656 days
Location: in a galaxy far, far away
Posts: 4,090
Re: The Two Harrys: Comparing the Potter-verse with the Dresden-verse.

Okay, I brought this conversation over to this thread because it uses Harry Dresden's world as part of the discussion. Almost everyone is familiar with Star Wars, but not everyone would catch the references to Dresden in the other thread. So bear with me for mixing the three sources: Potter, Dresden and Star Wars.

Something that was brought up on the thread: Jo pulls from Star Wars and LoTR is the idea that the Force that the Jedi knights use is closer to the way Harry Dresden gathers his power for his spells than the way Harry Potter gets his magical power. Luke uses the power of the Force, which is described in Wikipedia as:
The ForceIn Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, the original Star Wars film, the Force is first described by the Jedi Knight Obi-Wan Kenobi (Alec Guinness) as an energy field created by all living things, that surrounds and penetrates living beings and binds the galaxy together.[1] Throughout the series, characters exhibit various powers that rely on the Force.

The Force has a "dark side", which feeds off emotions such as anger and fear, whereas the Jedi use the Force only for peaceful purposes.[2] The series' villains, the Sith, embrace the dark side in order to seize power.[3] The Jedi's compassionate and selfless use of the Force has come to be known by inference as "the light side", although that term is not used in the films.[4]


One of the interesting things about the Force is how easy it is to turn toward the Dark Side with negative emotions. Dresden can and does use negative emotions to fuel his magical ability without any fear of becoming evil. Potter can also use dark spells, such as the Cruciatus spell, and not fear being seduced by the dark side. But Luke Skywalker cannot do that. In fact, it wasn't until he refused to fight Darth Vader and refused to let his hate take control of him, that he was able to win.

There is another interesting aspect of magic or force in the three worlds. It seems as if magic in Potterverse is pretty much self-contained. Only wizards can do magic and you have to learn how to do it in order to it properly (a very simplistic description for the sake of brevity). Potter magic doesn't give off an energy field. But the energy plays a big role in both Dresden verse and Star Wars. Dresden regularly burns out electrical equipment just by being near it. He lives almost the same way the Weasleys do to some extent, without electricity. The force of his magical energy it like a potent type of aura that causes things around him to malfunction. Luke doesn't give off an energy field, he uses the energy of the force to sense things that are happening in the universe. When he feels a disturbance in the Force, that usually means something really bad has happened. Lea is able to know where Luke is by being sensitive to the Force. I have only read the first 5 Dresden books, but I think that there is a certain amount of "feeling the energy" that Dresden uses, too.

That's all I have time for, and all in my opinion, too, just in case.


__________________


avatar artwork by Ruth Sanderson
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old November 14th, 2008, 4:01 pm
RemusLupinFan's Avatar
RemusLupinFan  Female.gif RemusLupinFan is offline
I want to believe
 
Joined: 5843 days
Location: The office in the basement
Posts: 5,897
Re: The Two Harrys: Comparing the Potter-verse with the Dresden-verse.

Here are my general thoughts/comparisons on HP vs. Dresden:

1. There is a difference in the way magic is done, in that in HP, the words a person says dictates the effect of the magic. In Harry Dresden, words are only used in order to focus magical energy while thoughts are used to direct the magic. So in the Dresden world you could say a bunch of nonsense words and work powerful magic, while in Harry Potter you must speak the words of the spell exactly right or the spell won't work. In general, the mechanisms of magic are explained in a lot more (logical) detail in the Dresden world. I really like that Butcher's magic agrees with physics, for example, he mentions impacts from Dresden's shields being transformed into heat and light. I dig that as a scientist- makes the story more believable.

2. One similarity is that in both worlds, magical folk have secrecy laws in place which prevent non-magical folk from knowing about their world. But HP is different in that a big distinction is made by many between being a wizard and being a muggle; the state of your blood is also a big deal. This doesn't seem to be focused on very much in Dresden. Also, in HP, many of the magical community frown upon those without magical powers, but in Dresden, the supernatural community realizes that ordinary mortals can be very dangerous for them. It's interesting that in both books, wizards live longer than ordinary folk, but only in HD do we get a scientific explanation of why.

3. The Cardinal Laws of Magic, as they were, are pretty similar in both stories. In HP, there's the Unforgivables, which are killing, forcing someone to do what you want, and causing pain. The Seven Laws of Magic in HD are comparable. But the wizards in the Dresden world are a lot less tolerant of violation of these rules, as they're ready to execute Harry for killing in self-defense. Both magical worlds also have a governing body to enforce the rules, both with varying degrees of corruption.

4. In Dresden, there is a greater diversity of magical creatures, many of which have much more power than mortal wizards, and many of which are immortal beings from the Nevernever (ie Sidhe, ogres, demons, etc). Conversely, in HP there really weren't any creatures from the spirit world except ghosts.

5. The concept of magical bindings is present in both worlds. In the Potterverse, there are magical contracts such as the Unbreakable Vow and the life debt that are binding, which have dire consequences if broken. In Dresden, the deals made with the Sidhe cause Harry physical harm when he breaks them.

6. There's an interesting similarity with magical swords in both stories. In the Potterverse, we've got Gryffindor's sword, which can only be pulled out of the Sorting Hat by a true Gryffindor, and which can be used to destroy very evil things like Voldemort's horcruxes. In Dresden, there's the three swords of the Knights of the Cross, which also destroy very evil things (like demons). It's interesting that those three swords are named after Faith (Fidelaccius), Hope (Esperacchius) and Love (Amoracchius). I wonder if Gryffindor's sword had a name.

7. The power of love is very, well, powerful in both series. In HP, the love that Lily has for Harry protects him from being killed. It causes Quirrelmort to get burned when he touches Harry. Harry's love for his friends and Ginny allows him to live in DH, and helps with Voldemort's undoing, as Voldy now has some of Harry's love-infested blood inside of him. With Dresden, his love for Susan protects him against the seduction of the White Court vampires - similar to HP, it burns them when they try to touch someone who has experienced strong love.

8. The magic in Dresden doesn't seem to have many everyday uses like it does in HP. Most of the magic in Dresden is for defense/offense, though there are tracking spells and the like. It seems the spells are not used for mundane things as much as they are in HP.


__________________

X-Files is the property of Ten Thirteen Productions, 20th Century Fox
WolfCloak30 Pottermore
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old May 21st, 2009, 10:42 pm
RemusPotter  Male.gif RemusPotter is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4645 days
Location: Romania, Timisoara
Posts: 188
Re: The Two Harrys: Comparing the Potter-verse with the Dresden-verse.

can somebody please tell me more about the Wardens? How they organise? How are they structured and how they work? Do they have their own ways of transportation? Also, please make a comparison with the Aurors. Put it in a Spoiler tag, if you want.


Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old May 22nd, 2009, 1:21 am
ally_xx's Avatar
ally_xx  Female.gif ally_xx is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 4095 days
Location: Australia
Age: 30
Posts: 1,471
Re: The Two Harrys: Comparing the Potter-verse with the Dresden-verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusLupinFan View Post
Here are my general thoughts/comparisons on HP vs. Dresden:

1. There is a difference in the way magic is done, in that in HP, the words a person says dictates the effect of the magic. In Harry Dresden, words are only used in order to focus magical energy while thoughts are used to direct the magic. So in the Dresden world you could say a bunch of nonsense words and work powerful magic, while in Harry Potter you must speak the words of the spell exactly right or the spell won't work. In general, the mechanisms of magic are explained in a lot more (logical) detail in the Dresden world. I really like that Butcher's magic agrees with physics, for example, he mentions impacts from Dresden's shields being transformed into heat and light. I dig that as a scientist- makes the story more believable.

2. One similarity is that in both worlds, magical folk have secrecy laws in place which prevent non-magical folk from knowing about their world. But HP is different in that a big distinction is made by many between being a wizard and being a muggle; the state of your blood is also a big deal. This doesn't seem to be focused on very much in Dresden. Also, in HP, many of the magical community frown upon those without magical powers, but in Dresden, the supernatural community realizes that ordinary mortals can be very dangerous for them. It's interesting that in both books, wizards live longer than ordinary folk, but only in HD do we get a scientific explanation of why.

3. The Cardinal Laws of Magic, as they were, are pretty similar in both stories. In HP, there's the Unforgivables, which are killing, forcing someone to do what you want, and causing pain. The Seven Laws of Magic in HD are comparable. But the wizards in the Dresden world are a lot less tolerant of violation of these rules, as they're ready to execute Harry for killing in self-defense. Both magical worlds also have a governing body to enforce the rules, both with varying degrees of corruption.

4. In Dresden, there is a greater diversity of magical creatures, many of which have much more power than mortal wizards, and many of which are immortal beings from the Nevernever (ie Sidhe, ogres, demons, etc). Conversely, in HP there really weren't any creatures from the spirit world except ghosts.

5. The concept of magical bindings is present in both worlds. In the Potterverse, there are magical contracts such as the Unbreakable Vow and the life debt that are binding, which have dire consequences if broken. In Dresden, the deals made with the Sidhe cause Harry physical harm when he breaks them.

6. There's an interesting similarity with magical swords in both stories. In the Potterverse, we've got Gryffindor's sword, which can only be pulled out of the Sorting Hat by a true Gryffindor, and which can be used to destroy very evil things like Voldemort's horcruxes. In Dresden, there's the three swords of the Knights of the Cross, which also destroy very evil things (like demons). It's interesting that those three swords are named after Faith (Fidelaccius), Hope (Esperacchius) and Love (Amoracchius). I wonder if Gryffindor's sword had a name.

7. The power of love is very, well, powerful in both series. In HP, the love that Lily has for Harry protects him from being killed. It causes Quirrelmort to get burned when he touches Harry. Harry's love for his friends and Ginny allows him to live in DH, and helps with Voldemort's undoing, as Voldy now has some of Harry's love-infested blood inside of him. With Dresden, his love for Susan protects him against the seduction of the White Court vampires - similar to HP, it burns them when they try to touch someone who has experienced strong love.

8. The magic in Dresden doesn't seem to have many everyday uses like it does in HP. Most of the magic in Dresden is for defense/offense, though there are tracking spells and the like. It seems the spells are not used for mundane things as much as they are in HP.
Wow thats really amazing. Do you think JK knew about these similarities?


__________________
It All Ends 15.7.2011
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old May 22nd, 2009, 2:44 am
SusanBones's Avatar
SusanBones  Female.gif SusanBones is offline
Inconceivable!
 
Joined: 5656 days
Location: in a galaxy far, far away
Posts: 4,090
Re: The Two Harrys: Comparing the Potter-verse with the Dresden-verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusPotter View Post
can somebody please tell me more about the Wardens? How they organise? How are they structured and how they work? Do they have their own ways of transportation? Also, please make a comparison with the Aurors. Put it in a Spoiler tag, if you want.
The Wardens:

Spoiler: show
The Wardens are chosen by the Council of Wizards. They are the policemen for the Wizards, making sure that they don't violate the Wizard rules. The Wizards in Harry Dresden are mortal and need cars and trains to travel, unless they take a shortcut through the Nevernever, which is a magical land of the fairies.


__________________


avatar artwork by Ruth Sanderson
Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Cloak > The Pensieve

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:27 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.