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Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?



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  #301  
Old October 10th, 2010, 4:06 pm
SunXia  Female.gif SunXia is offline
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

Nobody is ever to blame for somebody else's actions, sad childhood or not, there is never an excuse for being a bad egg and committing murder!! Voldemort was evil from the start and nobody else is to blame for that!! He wasn't the only child in that orphanage but he was the only one abusing other children!!


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  #302  
Old October 21st, 2010, 6:32 am
LadyTaiyo  Female.gif LadyTaiyo is offline
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

I actually think it was his talent that did him in. It's pretty common for highly intelligent people to have a hard time relating to others. It's easy to see how he could come to feel isolated. Many geniuses feel that they alone see the greater picture and that "ordinary" people are very stupid or narrow minded.

I would also guess that he was a sociopath, it would go a long way to explaining his apparent inability to care for the emotions of another human. A mental disorder would also explain why Harry and Snape, while certainly not perfect, still ended up being relatively normally and healthy people, while Voldemort, who had a very similar upbringing, was so highly dysfunctional.


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  #303  
Old November 19th, 2010, 10:07 pm
noellee  Undisclosed.gif noellee is offline
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

Voldemort is a classic case of a neglected child. He comes from a dysfunctional family....all in-bred....something's bound to go wrong. It doesn't help that he grows up in an orphanage with no love and proper attention. And he's an outcast.


So who's to blame?

Voldemort himself.
Biology
his family or lack thereof.

All of these things are possibles for the reason he's so evil.

Also, here's an interesting point. It was way too easy for him to go bad. Dumbledore was the only person who saw through him and what could he do really without proof?


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  #304  
Old November 20th, 2010, 1:00 pm
Sirius_Weasley  Male.gif Sirius_Weasley is offline
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

If you look at it in another way, Dumbledore should shoulder some blame for keeping his suspicions to himself


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  #305  
Old November 28th, 2010, 7:59 am
kreestu  Female.gif kreestu is offline
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

I think there were a lot of factors that contributed to Tom Riddle's horrible decisions. Mostly to blame was his circumstances, IMO, not any one person in particular.

First, the fact that he was conceived under a love potion, and also the fact that his mother's side of the family practiced a lot of inbreeding and that is proven to cause mental problems.
Plus mental instability was already common in the Gaunt family, when you look at Marvolo and his son.
Riddle learning that he was the descendant of Salazar Slytherin also gave him some feelings of entitlement and a basis for what he would found his prejudices on later on in his life.

Riddle was already shown to be a sociopath, and his infancy was talked about as odd by the orphan worker. The fact that he was never shown any motherly love or anything probably also added to his not being able to understand the concept of love.

Not to mention his vast intelligence- I mean, he was one of the top students at Hogwarts, and knew how to deceive teachers and students alike (besides Dumbledore). He knew how to control people and obviously felt superior to most of them.

When you put together the feeling of self entitlement, not understanding how to care for other people, and a history of violence in his family, I really think he was doomed from the start when his mother died.

Dumbledore warning the other teachers would not have halted his rise to power, IMO.
Riddle's mindset was already well developed by the age of eleven. Even if he did just take a Ministry job, I believe he would eventually have still tried to take over, killed a lot of people, etc. He needed to feel powerful. I don't think his sadistic impulses could have been reined in by anyone by the time he was eleven and went to Hogwarts.

I think just the combination of all these things... it was really just his circumstances. I honestly don't completely blame him for everything.


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  #306  
Old November 28th, 2010, 6:33 pm
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius_Weasley View Post
If you look at it in another way, Dumbledore should shoulder some blame for keeping his suspicions to himself
I'm not sure anyone would've believed Dumbledore though.. not that it excuses him for trying though! As JKR put it, DD was somewhat "Machiavellian", and tended to keep a bit too much to himself, so you may have a point!
--

Regards the thread in general, I still think V is to blame, mostly, for V.
After all, Harry had similar circumstances -grew up an orphan, without love- and came out completely different. People are responsible for who they are, ultimately. Not society. Society has an influence, but not the final word.


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  #307  
Old December 3rd, 2010, 9:22 pm
Sophia_Weasley  Female.gif Sophia_Weasley is offline
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

I think you could look at this in diff ways and get alot of diff answers you clould say his mom dumbledore......


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  #308  
Old December 4th, 2010, 1:23 am
exl2398  Female.gif exl2398 is offline
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

I think voldemort went bad on his own, but his circumstances may have provided some of the experiences that exasperated the situation. he was an orphan, never knowing a mother's love, a father's love, or proper parental discipline. maybe this is what led older voldemort to place such little stock in love.


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  #309  
Old December 4th, 2010, 5:14 am
PotterGurl08  Undisclosed.gif PotterGurl08 is offline
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

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Originally Posted by firth4eva View Post
I couldn't find anything on this so...
Who is to blame for him going bad?
I think Marvolo Gaunt because of his attitudes towards his daughter
Very interesting question. This is something I've thought about. I concluded that it was for a variety of reasons, one being the conditions he was conceived under. Merope had Tom Riddle, Sr. under the influence of love potion. Thus, their love was not real. Most children are conceived out of love. Voldemort was not.

Then of course, after he was born, he never received love. Merope was emotionally broken and did not love him. Tom Riddle, Sr. never wanted anything to do with him. He was not loved at the orphanage. While his teachers at Hogwarts were impressed with him, as teachers, they of course were not loving in a nurturing way toward him.

I think this is a way to show that Voldemort's entire existence was without love. From the moment he was conceived to the moment his life ended.

I'm not sure anything could have changed this. It can be argued that maybe if Merope had lived and raised him, he would have known his mother's love. But I'm not sure Merope ever loved him or had any intentions to either. I get the impression that her pregnancy was an attempt to win Tom Riddle, Sr.'s true love. Thus, when that attempt failed, she did not want to keep the reminder of the failure, i.e. Tom Riddle, Jr. She felt she had nothing to live for.

And thus, Voldemort is just an all-around tragic character. The fact that Harry attempted to offer him a chance to remourse, a chance to redeem himself, and he could not even fathom it just shows that Voldemort was truly and absolutely a lost cause.

I think this is what makes Voldemort such a frightening figure. He just IS evil. Lots of villians become evil due a particular circumstance. But Voldemort was literally created out of corruption, and everything about him was corrupt--even his mere existence.



Last edited by PotterGurl08; December 4th, 2010 at 5:32 am.
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  #310  
Old December 4th, 2010, 7:36 am
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

There used to be the whole debate of "Nature vs. Nurture" was Voldemort born evil or did he become evil. And while I find it hard to believe anyone can be born evil, Voldemort was not, like PotterGurl08 says, someone who became evil. He just was evil. You can tell looking back at 10 year old Tom Riddle that he was already at that time evil. Not just scary or scarred, but absolute evil incarnate. So going back to the original question "who is to blame," I do not think the blame can be placed on anyone. Voldemort just was evil.


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  #311  
Old December 4th, 2010, 9:37 am
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

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Originally Posted by Lord Godric View Post
There used to be the whole debate of "Nature vs. Nurture" was Voldemort born evil or did he become evil. And while I find it hard to believe anyone can be born evil, Voldemort was not, like PotterGurl08 says, someone who became evil. He just was evil. You can tell looking back at 10 year old Tom Riddle that he was already at that time evil. Not just scary or scarred, but absolute evil incarnate. So going back to the original question "who is to blame," I do not think the blame can be placed on anyone. Voldemort just was evil.
Couldn't put it better.


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  #312  
Old December 4th, 2010, 1:13 pm
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

Voldemort was a sociopath, but the way Dumbledore treated 11-year-old Voldemort was completely different to the way he treated Harry. Also, it seems that Armando Dippet was trying to send Riddle back to the Orphanage if not during the Blitz, then at least during the War, when resourced were stretched very very thin. It is my opinion that the choices that Voldemort made are entirely his own, but also that the ball was dropped several times by people in his life who should've known better.


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  #313  
Old December 4th, 2010, 1:48 pm
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Voldemort was a sociopath, but the way Dumbledore treated 11-year-old Voldemort was completely different to the way he treated Harry. Also, it seems that Armando Dippet was trying to send Riddle back to the Orphanage if not during the Blitz, then at least during the War, when resourced were stretched very very thin. It is my opinion that the choices that Voldemort made are entirely his own, but also that the ball was dropped several times by people in his life who should've known better.
The reason Dumbledore treated Riddle different from the way he treated Harry was because Harry and Riddle were completely different.
You cannot help someone who doesn't want to be helped. While Harry started seeing Dumbledore as a father figure he could go for help, Riddle started seeing him as an adversary. I don't think there was anything anyone could have done with Riddle. It was already too late when he started at Hogwarts.


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  #314  
Old December 4th, 2010, 1:56 pm
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

I don't really agree. I'm not saying that he didn't have psychopathic tendencies, but hopefully with some help he could've been steered onto a less destructive path. In Hogwarts, to me, the entire problem was that Tom was being encouraged by the wrong people (Slughorn and Armando Dippet), and the right person (Dumbledore) was not doing enough to reach out to him.

I don't see how you can justify ethically giving up on a 11-year-old.


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  #315  
Old December 4th, 2010, 2:34 pm
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

Dumbledore did say himself he didn't yet know which path Riddle would chose. I don't think anybody could have suspected such a strong wish to achieve evilness when he still was in Hogwarts.

It's right Dumbledore observed him, but what could he have done? I don't think he could have reached Tom, even if he tried every day. I don't say it isn't helpful to meet the right people in life. But I also believe we meet only few of them by pure accident. Riddle's, Snape's and to some extend Draco's actions are certainly explainable with their according family background. They certainly didn't have the easiest path to go. Just, at the end, it's our choices how to spend our life.


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  #316  
Old December 4th, 2010, 2:55 pm
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
I don't really agree. I'm not saying that he didn't have psychopathic tendencies, but hopefully with some help he could've been steered onto a less destructive path. In Hogwarts, to me, the entire problem was that Tom was being encouraged by the wrong people (Slughorn and Armando Dippet), and the right person (Dumbledore) was not doing enough to reach out to him.

I don't see how you can justify ethically giving up on a 11-year-old.
Slughorn and Armando were fooled by Riddle. They never saw his evil tendencies.
Riddle says that he could never charm Dumbledore the way he could others and Dumbledore says that Riddle was always guarded with him.
What can you possibly do to help someone who is wary of you and doesn't want your help ?
Dumbledore's situation is further complicated because all the other teachers see nothing wrong with Riddle. He can't force anything to happen.


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  #317  
Old December 4th, 2010, 4:48 pm
wingardium713  Undisclosed.gif wingardium713 is offline
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grymmditch View Post
Regards the thread in general, I still think V is to blame, mostly, for V.
After all, Harry had similar circumstances -grew up an orphan, without love- and came out completely different. People are responsible for who they are, ultimately. Not society. Society has an influence, but not the final word.
Harry did have a huge benefit that Voldemort did not have. He was loved unconditionally in his first year. I think that Voldemort ended up like those poor Romanian orphans who had very little human emotional contact during their early years and ended up with a host of mental problems. Add into the mix that he was probably an odd kid (making magic happen) and he was probably given an even wider berth than the average kid int that orphanage. I think he ended up not being able to connect with people and then he found out he could control them.

Some kids could probably have survived all of this and still come out okay. I think that Voldemort had a combination of nuture and nature that was a perfect storm for what ended up happening. I think that by the time he got to Hogwarts, he was pretty much set on course. He was pretty scary before he even got there. Perhaps a good, caring teacher who saw through his facade may have been able to temper his behaviour, but I don't know if all of his mental scaring could have been undone.


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  #318  
Old December 4th, 2010, 4:57 pm
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

Many noted sociopaths and serial killers suffered abuse in their childhood.

IMO you cannot contrast Voldemort to Harry or Snape to Harry because the way the Dursleys abuse was drawn was almost comical. I guess so Harry's innate goodness would become more believable that way. I find Voldemort's character to be written in a rather one-dimensional fashion. The only person whose life sequence seems most believable is Snape.

It is not morally justifiable to give up on children because they are supposedly innately evil.


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  #319  
Old December 4th, 2010, 5:40 pm
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

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Originally Posted by wingardium713 View Post
Harry did have a huge benefit that Voldemort did not have. He was loved unconditionally in his first year.
Before Dumbledore even went to visit Riddle, Riddle was torturing the other children with his magic. He was intimidating them and stealing their stuff. He already was showing the signs of someone with great evil tendencies.
Quote:
I think that Voldemort ended up like those poor Romanian orphans who had very little human emotional contact during their early years and ended up with a host of mental problems.
I don't think we have any proof that Riddle was neglected, at least not to a serious extent. Sure he was an orphan, but that doesn't mean he received little human emotion because of that. I always imagined Riddle to force anyone who tried to get close to him away. Again, being responsible for who he became.
Quote:
Add into the mix that he was probably an odd kid (making magic happen) and he was probably given an even wider berth than the average kid int that orphanage. I think he ended up not being able to connect with people and then he found out he could control them.
I do agree that he was probably seen as an odd kid by the other kids, but for someone to come to the conclusion that he could control others through means of torture by the time they're 11 years old, something is already very wrong.

Quote:
Some kids could probably have survived all of this and still come out okay. I think that Voldemort had a combination of nuture and nature that was a perfect storm for what ended up happening. I think that by the time he got to Hogwarts, he was pretty much set on course. He was pretty scary before he even got there. Perhaps a good, caring teacher who saw through his facade may have been able to temper his behaviour, but I don't know if all of his mental scaring could have been undone.
I agree that by the time he got to Hogwarts he was set on his course, but I do not think a caring teacher could have helped him. Like I said before, Riddle would have most likely pushed anyone away who wanted to help him. Dumbledore was the only one who saw through his facade and Riddle saw him as an enemy not as someone who would help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post

It is not morally justifiable to give up on children because they are supposedly innately evil.
But this never happened in the books. Riddle was never given up on by anyone. Dumbledore just watched him closely, like he did Harry. And the two developed in complete opposite directions.


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  #320  
Old December 4th, 2010, 5:50 pm
wingardium713  Undisclosed.gif wingardium713 is offline
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Re: Who is to blame for Voldemort going bad?

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Originally Posted by Lord Godric View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingardium713 View Post
Harry did have a huge benefit that Voldemort did not have. He was loved unconditionally in his first year.
Before Dumbledore even went to visit Riddle, Riddle was torturing the other children with his magic. He was intimidating them and stealing their stuff. He already was showing the signs of someone with great evil tendencies.
I don't think I was clear. I meant Harry's first year of life, not his first year at Hogwarts. Sorry.


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