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Dumbledore's Cold Feet



 
 
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  #41  
Old March 30th, 2007, 9:58 am
moonarcher  Female.gif moonarcher is offline
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

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Originally Posted by snuka View Post
Straight out lied, no. Told less than the whole truth, yes.

Compare his account of the prophecy night in OOTP, and Trelawney's in HBP. Also, I don't believe he gave the real or at least, the whole reason why he trusts Snape to Harry with the "he was sorry your parents died" story. And overall in OOTP, he didn't share his plans with Harry - why he didn't teach him Occlumency, what the snake vision meant etc...

Also notice how he evades Harry's direct question why LV tried to kill him in PS. He did say he can't tell him yet, but still - he wasn't telling him everything he knew.

The socks answer in PS about the Erised mirror, I believe, was also his polite way of not really answering what he saw. It was a personal question after all.

I agree, Dumbledore only ever reveals what is appropriate at the time rather than lying outright, at least as much as I can remember. The exception maybe being not telling Harry about the prophesy when indicating he was telling Harry everything. Again, I feel this is more lying by obmission than outright lying.

I also agree with it being a personal question, and if you look at it in terms of a teacher talking to a eleven year old student, its probably more appropriate to talk in terms of warm wooly socks for Christmas instead of books than wishing for a more simple life without the complications of needing to be constantly vigilent and terrified of neeeding to guide Harry through the future perils of the prophesy being taken seriously by Voldemort.


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  #42  
Old March 30th, 2007, 10:15 am
Puddlefeet  Female.gif Puddlefeet is offline
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

Or maybe it was Dumbledores' desperate plea for warmth and affection; was his dream to live in a sweet little house, to sit in front of a warm fire with his socks on, a Mrs. Dumbledore Scourgifying away in the kitchen, and lots of little Dumbledores' floating around on toy broomsticks?
Perhaps Dumbledores' life ambition was to be Mr. Family Man!



Last edited by Puddlefeet; March 30th, 2007 at 10:18 am. Reason: Grammar error. So sue me!
  #43  
Old March 30th, 2007, 4:57 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

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Originally Posted by Puddlefeet View Post
Or maybe it was Dumbledores' desperate plea for warmth and affection; was his dream to live in a sweet little house, to sit in front of a warm fire with his socks on, a Mrs. Dumbledore Scourgifying away in the kitchen, and lots of little Dumbledores' floating around on toy broomsticks?
Perhaps Dumbledores' life ambition was to be Mr. Family Man!
heehee! that made me giggle!

Ive always thought that the socks thing was just a way of avoiding the question, why would he tell an eleven year old his hearts desire?

But I do like the cold feet metaphor! Tis interesting and could be included in an analysis without upsetting the idea that DD avoided the question.


what do you reckon DD did see in the Mirror though? I reckon Harry, healthy happy and safe with Voldemort gone and dead finally.


  #44  
Old March 31st, 2007, 2:41 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

I also don't think that Dumbledore was being truthful. Harry himself thought at the end of the chapter that Dumbledore might not have been telling the truth. I think he was joking. But I think that his reply also gives us an insight into his character. Dumbledore was wise and strikes me as the kind of person that enjoyed the simple things in life. I think JK Rowling used this to show us that. But his heart's deepest desire? Don't think so...


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  #45  
Old March 31st, 2007, 3:27 am
DrLazy_89  Male.gif DrLazy_89 is offline
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

I don't think he got cold feet. Dumbledore doesn't look like the type that would get cold feet. He was an extremely smart wizard, Voldemort must have something really powerful so that Dumbledore could have gotten cold feet about "something". I do believe that he expected to find the Horcrux in the cave, and that he was surprised not necessarily by the events that followed or how they turned out, but by the order of events.


  #46  
Old April 1st, 2007, 8:53 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

I think that between his fondness of Muggle knitting patterns and his wish for a pair of socks, it is very possible that all he wanted was just a nice warm pair of nice, simple socks, and not some fancy magical piece of finery or special thing to think and worry about. He was an old man. He lived in a drafty old castle. Old men have cold feet, just like anyone else. He was human, and he was also a Wizard, and it was Jo's way of reminding both Harry and us that we all long for simple comforts sometimes -- that we all need these things.


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  #47  
Old April 14th, 2007, 1:07 pm
moonarcher  Female.gif moonarcher is offline
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

There seems to be a bit of a fun theme running here - DD's socks in the mirror, Dobby's odd sock fetish, Hermionie knitting for freedom, DD liking knitting patterns...!?

I actually agree Dumbledore would wish for a more simple life for both he and Harry, but to me this still fits into the original cold feet theory. I also agree that he probably has more of a fondness for Harry than he lets on, knowing that becoming too subjective could ultimately make things difficult for Harry - not only for being teacher's pet, but also because as an old man he would eventually end up dying and Harry would loose another important person in his life (not knowing how true that wwould end up being), and not wishing it on Harry at such a young age.

I also have a theory that Dumbledore would like knitting patterns for a reason. He has an uncanny knack of seeing how one event can tie in to another, and how to predict or analyse a whole chain of events and the parts individuals might play in them, eg the whole Sirus and Buckbeak rescue, using the knowledge stored in the pensieve to piece together the possibilitiy of horcruxes etc. I know there are a whole assortment of silver thingies in DD's office that are probably used to help him out, but the way one tread of yarn (life) interconnects with itself to create a piece of simple and yet very complex piece of material (interactions creating past, present and future events) just seems up DD's alley. Its a bit like the Fate's of greek mythology, and JK's use of mythology strengthens the idea for me.

Any thoughts?


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  #48  
Old April 14th, 2007, 3:54 pm
InsaneKira  Male.gif InsaneKira is offline
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

All this time I believed it was just something silly he said to a little kid, and that it wouldn't matter what he thought of it, like the Nitwit Oddment Blubber Tweak thing. But it may be a clue.


  #49  
Old April 14th, 2007, 4:16 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

I actually stumbled upon an interesting essay in hp lexicon the other day about the role of socks in the series. I don't have really have a well thought out opinion of the matter my self, but this does add an interesting angle to the whole sock question:

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/socks.html


  #50  
Old April 14th, 2007, 4:37 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

Like many others, I think it was just Dumbledore evading the question, but hypothetically speaking, if Dumbledore was telling the truth, then I guess this could be why:
You usually only give people socks when you can't think of anything else to get them i.e. they don't need anything. Maybe Dumbledore longs for a time when he doesn't need stuff like complicated spell books or whatever, so all people get him are socks. All he wants is not to have to worry about LV or anything.
Unfortunatey he never got his wish


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  #51  
Old April 14th, 2007, 4:40 pm
InsaneKira  Male.gif InsaneKira is offline
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

Harry's Felix Felicis was also hidden neatly in a pair of socks!


  #52  
Old April 14th, 2007, 4:47 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

I always thought that he wanted a pari of socks because he was tired of getting books and such from everyone. Maybe he just wanted something that didn't have to do with him being smart or a great wizard, maybe he wanted what a normal wizard would get.


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  #53  
Old April 28th, 2007, 12:21 pm
moonarcher  Female.gif moonarcher is offline
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasfres View Post
I actually stumbled upon an interesting essay in hp lexicon the other day about the role of socks in the series. I don't have really have a well thought out opinion of the matter my self, but this does add an interesting angle to the whole sock question:

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/socks.html
Thanks, I hadn't seen that one yet! Long story short, socks are used quite a bit in the series, are usually gifts - some thoughtful, others last minute - and most links relate back to Dobby!

Maybe Dobby and Dumbledore have more in common than first thought!

The felix being kept inside a sock is a good pick up too InsaneKira, I'd missed that one - the trusty sock

The connection with socks and freedom is interesting. Dobby is freed with a sock, Harry's inhabitions are "freed" by drinking the felix he keeps in a sock, Dumbledore seems to see freedom in the simplistic sock...

I've got it! Harry will defeat Voldie by taking his socks off and suffercating him with the odor of smelly feet!


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  #54  
Old April 30th, 2007, 2:03 am
firebolt57  Female.gif firebolt57 is offline
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

This is so cool! I've never even thougt about this. I think it's just voldemort being finish and harry surviving through it. I know he wouldn't be scared of death, because we've heard several times from dumbledore that Death isn't the worst thing to happen to someone.


  #55  
Old May 2nd, 2007, 3:24 am
moonarcher  Female.gif moonarcher is offline
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

I agree firebolt57, but because I think there is a difference between being frightened or worried about something you don't want to happen as a reaction to acknowledging the dangers, compared with being so worried or frightened you don't act, fight for what you believe , or do what needs to be done.

(Added later...)
Given that Dumbledore looks into the Mirror in PS, he probably has no idea about horcruxes and caves etc, and would be focusing on past and preent events, such as Harry being in the school, whispers of LV being alive but not, recognising the sacrifice Harry's parents made and the sacrifice Harry himself made without actually making a decision. Which brings me to something that has been bothering me both in the books and with some posts in this thread...

A while ago I posted:
Quote:
I also have a theory that Dumbledore would like knitting patterns for a reason. He has an uncanny knack of seeing how one event can tie in to another, and how to predict or analyse a whole chain of events and the parts individuals might play in them, eg the whole Sirus and Buckbeak rescue, using the knowledge stored in the pensieve to piece together the possibilitiy of horcruxes etc. I know there are a whole assortment of silver thingies in DD's office that are probably used to help him out, but the way one tread of yarn (life) interconnects with itself to create a piece of simple and yet very complex piece of material (interactions creating past, present and future events) just seems up DD's alley. Its a bit like the Fate's of greek mythology, and JK's use of mythology strengthens the idea for me.
The theory kinda got overlooked, and I'd really like some feedback, mainly because I'm trying to figure out if we're giving Dumbledore more credit than we should. Dumbledore, at the beginning of the series, pretty much always seems to be on the same page if not one step ahead of Voldemort eg knowing about and keeping the Philospher's Stone safe, knowing someone close to the Potters was feeding LV info, figuring out the relationship between Nagini and LV and Harry and LV, etc. Why then does he start making mistakes and not having such insight in GOF (Not knowing Moody was not Moody despite being friends for a long time), getting hurt, putting himself in a position to be killed - not very Dumbledorish behaviour IMO givien his previous insights.

So, was it just old age kicking in, was he not reading the signs / relationships (ie, really looking at and interpreting the "knitting" patterns in the same way), was he just not as capable because LV was using new (or really old and obscure) strategies and magic, or are we just giving Dumbldeore more credit for his abilities to see ahead and figure out what's going on than we should?


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Last edited by moonarcher; May 5th, 2007 at 12:01 pm. Reason: added at a later date, I had last post in thread
  #56  
Old May 8th, 2007, 3:09 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonarcher View Post
I agree firebolt57, but because I think there is a difference between being frightened or worried about something you don't want to happen as a reaction to acknowledging the dangers, compared with being so worried or frightened you don't act, fight for what you believe , or do what needs to be done.

(Added later...)
Given that Dumbledore looks into the Mirror in PS, he probably has no idea about horcruxes and caves etc, and would be focusing on past and preent events, such as Harry being in the school, whispers of LV being alive but not, recognising the sacrifice Harry's parents made and the sacrifice Harry himself made without actually making a decision. Which brings me to something that has been bothering me both in the books and with some posts in this thread...

A while ago I posted:


The theory kinda got overlooked, and I'd really like some feedback, mainly because I'm trying to figure out if we're giving Dumbledore more credit than we should. Dumbledore, at the beginning of the series, pretty much always seems to be on the same page if not one step ahead of Voldemort eg knowing about and keeping the Philospher's Stone safe, knowing someone close to the Potters was feeding LV info, figuring out the relationship between Nagini and LV and Harry and LV, etc. Why then does he start making mistakes and not having such insight in GOF (Not knowing Moody was not Moody despite being friends for a long time), getting hurt, putting himself in a position to be killed - not very Dumbledorish behaviour IMO givien his previous insights.

So, was it just old age kicking in, was he not reading the signs / relationships (ie, really looking at and interpreting the "knitting" patterns in the same way), was he just not as capable because LV was using new (or really old and obscure) strategies and magic, or are we just giving Dumbldeore more credit for his abilities to see ahead and figure out what's going on than we should?
Okay, I just came over from the thread "What did DD really see in the mirror" and you gave this thread (thanks moonarcher).

So glad to be hear because I have been thinking about this throughout the whole septology and thought maybe I was the only crazy person out there. I totally agree that Dumbledore actually saw socks in the mirror. I love the idea that he has "cold feet" about something. I dont think that Jo would put so many references into all the books about socks if she wasnt leading us somewhere with them.

Like mentioned before in this thread its not just one character, its Harry, Dobby, DD, Hermione, and Ron. Is DD quirky? yes, but does he lie? no. He may evade the truth, but he doesnt lie. When I was reading HBP I was literally waiting for a sock reference.... and the hiding of FF in a sock was it. I also too thought the knitting pattern (lets not forget Molly knitting sweaters for her family every christmas, and Harry, and then Ron giving his to Dobby) comment to be interesting.

DD is also noted to be in "woolen dressing gown" somewhere in the books (forgive me I cannot remember where). This whole sock/wool/knitting pattern thing might just be to remind us that he likes creature comforts (like lemon drops and chocolate eclairs). Maybe that creature is connected to Dobby? I think so. There is a houseelf depicted on the front cover of the UK version of book 7. I would be very dissappointed if there was no sock reference in Book 7.

I think your cold feet theory is great, but I think it was cold feet/worry about what Harry's future would be and that DD would feel directly responsible for him. I dont think DD is a seer, but just reads the signs well. I think his love for Harry has kept him from doing the "right" things at times, perhaps clouding his vision. Dont forget, he admits that when he makes mistakes, because he is such a great Wizard, his mistakes are at a much grander scale. I think we need to continue to give DD all of the credit he deserves. Jo has said in interviews that DD and Hermione are the two she uses to convey truthful facts (dont quote me on this, but it was asked in one of her interviews). I think DD is great character, and should be treated that way.

Great thread...well done!


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  #57  
Old May 8th, 2007, 4:13 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

His way of saying- He is still human and he doesn't take things like socks for granted.


  #58  
Old May 8th, 2007, 6:16 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by gottriplets
In western culture one of a pair of socks is popularly understood to disappear, usually at some point during the washing and drying process, leaving the owner with many socks without mates. There are any number of humorous theories to "explain" the disappearance.
* wormholes open in the dryer, sucking socks into a different part of the universe, a planet that closely resembles ours except that socks mysteriously appear out of nowhere, while coat hangers vanish. This sock displacement is explored by children's author Grant Slatter, whose series of "Oddies" books tells the story of the planet Oddieworld and its inhabitants - an odd sock utopia in a galaxy far, far away [2].
* Socks are the larval form of the coathanger. This neatly explains why there are always too few socks and too many coathangers.
* Socks are by nature cannibalistic, but they only eat their mates.
Maybe he was hitting that he’s lonely and wants a life partner. Like the other sock is missing from his pair. Also about not getting socks for Christmas maybe he was saying that nobody got him anything. It’s like ninja_myrtle said “But sometimes the greatest people in the world long for just the simple things in life”. What’s simplier than a pair of socks? All he wants is to not have the burden of being one of the few greatest wizards of his time.


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  #59  
Old May 8th, 2007, 8:35 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

It was JKR's way of portraying Dumbledore's quirkiness. Dumbledore might've been truthful about desiring a pair of socks at that particular moment, but his heart's desire lies in something else, and assuming that he was being untruthful, he may have said that just to avoid giving away the true answer. It was a great way of showing how human yet different Dumbledore is - the greatest wizard in the world who loves candies and warm socks.


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  #60  
Old July 3rd, 2007, 3:08 am
moonarcher  Female.gif moonarcher is offline
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Re: Dumbledore's Cold Feet

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Originally Posted by legilimency View Post
I think your cold feet theory is great, but I think it was cold feet/worry about what Harry's future would be and that DD would feel directly responsible for him. I dont think DD is a seer, but just reads the signs well. I think his love for Harry has kept him from doing the "right" things at times, perhaps clouding his vision. Dont forget, he admits that when he makes mistakes, because he is such a great Wizard, his mistakes are at a much grander scale. I think we need to continue to give DD all of the credit he deserves. Jo has said in interviews that DD and Hermione are the two she uses to convey truthful facts (dont quote me on this, but it was asked in one of her interviews). I think DD is great character, and should be treated that way.
This is why I think DD's intrest in knitting patterns makes so much sence. I don't believe he is a seer so much either, just observant. He has a knack of being able to see how relationships and events inter-weave, and can see the possible, or even likely consequences of two or more threads of wool crossing paths.

Dumbledore was in a good position to do this, with so many of the key characters having been students at Hogwarts, and many of the friendships and rivallries that influence the lives of the broarder wizarding community starting at Hogwarts.

Having said this, why Dumbledore never got involved in some of those relationships and help steer them into more positive ones can only be explained by his belief in individual choice. Imagine the influence he could have had if he'd encouraged Snape and James to work out their differences, or if Harry and Draco had been given a need to work together instead of having so many oppotunities to work against each other?!

I suppose this is why I find his influence on Harry by giving him the cloak at such a young age and allowing Harry to gain knowledge of the Stone on his first trip into the wizarding world so interesting. It shows Dumbledore showing Harry the path, without pushing him actually onto it. By the time Harry is found in front of the mirror, the wheels have already been put in motion and its too late for Dumbledore to stop them, even if he wants to - it has become Harry's choice.


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