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  #21  
Old June 16th, 2007, 2:49 am
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Re: conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

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Originally Posted by charlessnider View Post
I think Voldemort assembled a supporting cast for Malfoy who were all expendable should the worst happen. The DeathEaters who showed up were kind of "chumps" in that none had been real significant to plot development or Voldemort's plan.
Notice that he sent an "all-star" squad to the Ministry in Order of Phoenix, but for this assignment he sent a bunch of chumps who would kill everyone in site,,,,,,and I bet Voldemort gave them orders like "Trash the joint!"
I agree with you on the supporting cast but i don't think Fenrir Greyback is expendable since he is the connection to the werewolf community,for the death-eaters.Voldemort could still us Fenrir to get the were-wolfs on the deatheaters side,so that wouldn't exactly make Fenrir expendable unless he already got the werewolfs to join voldemort(which i can't remember since i can't find my harry potter and the half-blood prince book)


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  #22  
Old June 16th, 2007, 3:02 am
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Re: conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

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Originally Posted by ShadowAngel View Post
I agree with you on the supporting cast but i don't think Fenrir Greyback is expendable since he is the connection to the werewolf community,for the death-eaters.Voldemort could still us Fenrir to get the were-wolfs on the deatheaters side,so that wouldn't exactly make Fenrir expendable unless he already got the werewolfs to join voldemort(which i can't remember since i can't find my harry potter and the half-blood prince book)
I also agree that the group who entered Hogwarts were the people who were considered expendable. As for Fenrir, remember Draco says that he didn't know Fenrir was going to be there? He could have found out about it and then came along at the last second.


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  #23  
Old June 16th, 2007, 3:02 am
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

Personally, if I were Voldy, I would obviously be pretty mad at all the DEs that went into the MoM and were basically showed up by a bunch of 5th and 4th years. So, how do I get back at Bella? Not let her go. Someone so faithful, that has always pledged her allegiance to the Dark Lord, would more then likely be upset with herself greatly and would vow never to fail again. She would also do almost everything in her power to make sure of that. Now, how to punish Lucius? Go after his family. Send DEs that are as pathetic as Wormtail. If Draco dies, that is too bad. Lucius shouldn't have messed up so badly.


  #24  
Old June 16th, 2007, 3:22 am
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Re: conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

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Originally Posted by AlbusLives30 View Post

I also think that Voldy may not have wanted to send anyone that he thought would kill Dumbledore instead of Draco. There are holes in this statement, I know, because any DE would want to kill Dumbledore. However, I think there are certainly the more devoted, ready to jump at a moment's notice DEs that would kill Dumbledore if Draco showed any hesitation, and I'd place Bella in this category.
I think you might be on to something. Look at the way Bella acted in the Ministry. She didn't listen to Lucius, tried to attack Harry when she knew she shouldn't and just acted out of control. I don't think she would have given Draco the chance to kill Dumbledore and she hates Snape. She might have let her hatred of Snape ruin the mission.


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Old June 16th, 2007, 4:03 am
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Re: conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

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Originally Posted by YellowPoofBall View Post
There was an idea going on in some other thread that Voldemort assigned his Death Eaters into different groups. So the group at the Ministry in OotP would be one group, the group at Hogwarts in HBP would be another group. I think that the people in Bella's group that were prosecuted for the torture of the Longbottoms were also present at the Ministry in OotP (excluding Crouch, Jr.). That seems to support the statement that Voldemort alone knows who all his Death Eaters are.
exactly but hbp and ootp is a year apart! what could be the "all-star" doing now???

I think that Bella was placed there by Rowling to intensify the Neville plot...
I think that Fenrir was placed there by Rowling to intensify the Bill (Or future Draco) plot...

that's it... a book mistake....


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  #26  
Old June 16th, 2007, 4:10 am
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

IMHO

Voldemort told Bellatrix to keep out so that Draco could have a chance to prove himself worthy to become a Death Eater.

Plus, the Vow compelled Snape to help Draco if he needed assistance. Perhaps Bellatrix secretly hoped that Snape would somehow screw things up. Then Snape would be disgraced in Lord V's eyes, and Bellatrix could reign as the Unchallenged Favorite Death Eater of Lord V's Second Coming.

IMHO


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Old June 16th, 2007, 1:12 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

Do we really know for sure that Bella wasn't there? The Death Eaters were wearing masks at first, weren't they?


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  #28  
Old June 16th, 2007, 7:08 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

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Originally Posted by hedwig_3180 View Post
Do we really know for sure that Bella wasn't there? The Death Eaters were wearing masks at first, weren't they?
i think bellatrix is an important engough character that if she was there we would have known either by harry seeing her or someone else mentioning her...what if part of the reason jk rowling didnt have her there was because if harry saw her he would be distracted and he needed to focus on draco and snape


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  #29  
Old June 16th, 2007, 7:13 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

I'm relatively sure Bella wasn't part of the attack on the school. My own opinion is that Bella wasn't there because LV recognizes that Bella and Draco have a family relationship, too. As such, LV probably was leery that the plan could go wrong because of their family ties, even though he knows that Bella's quite devoted to him.
Plus, he probably knows Bella doesn't have the same patience that some of the other DE's do. She might have just hauled off and killed DD right away; which was explicitly against the orders the DE's had.
I guess what I'm saying is the trip to Hogwarts wasn't her type of mission - she's better suited to be in on something like the freak hurricane, where it's OK if she goes overboard a bit.


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  #30  
Old June 16th, 2007, 7:56 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

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Originally Posted by chparadise View Post
I'm relatively sure Bella wasn't part of the attack on the school. My own opinion is that Bella wasn't there because LV recognizes that Bella and Draco have a family relationship, too. As such, LV probably was leery that the plan could go wrong because of their family ties, even though he knows that Bella's quite devoted to him.
Plus, he probably knows Bella doesn't have the same patience that some of the other DE's do. She might have just hauled off and killed DD right away; which was explicitly against the orders the DE's had.
I guess what I'm saying is the trip to Hogwarts wasn't her type of mission - she's better suited to be in on something like the freak hurricane, where it's OK if she goes overboard a bit.
Dumbledore wasn't supposed to suspect Malfoy so that's why the plan possibly could have worked. Even if Bella had gone to Hogwarts (and Dumbledore hadn't been incapacitated) there is no way she could have killed him. She ran for her life in OOTP. Bella would have messed up the mission, but with her talent she would have killed members of the Order.


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  #31  
Old June 16th, 2007, 8:00 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

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Originally Posted by elfears91 View Post
i think bellatrix is an important engough character that if she was there we would have known either by harry seeing her or someone else mentioning her...what if part of the reason jk rowling didnt have her there was because if harry saw her he would be distracted and he needed to focus on draco and snape
I agree with this, but also, I think that Bellatrix might be to valuable to Voldemort, maybe. Possibly the people he sent to help Draco were less valuable members of the DEs. I'm not actually sure if Bellatrix is just making up all the rubbish she says about Voldemort and her being besties. I think we will discover much more avout their relationship in DH. For the time being, I think Bellatrix must have been off doing other things, or was specifically told she could not go, because it would interfere with Snape and Draco being able to escape.


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  #32  
Old June 16th, 2007, 8:04 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

Bella wasn't there probably because she might have been tempted to kill Dumbledore herself - for the glory. So the "Big V" wanted this to be the Draco-Snape show, to see what would happen.


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  #33  
Old June 16th, 2007, 8:28 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

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Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
Bella wasn't there probably because she might have been tempted to kill Dumbledore herself - for the glory. So the "Big V" wanted this to be the Draco-Snape show, to see what would happen.
Yup, that way two of the people whose loyalty he questions the most are in a spot where they have to declare one side or the other. Bella's loyalties are clear; and LV thought he'd get an answer regarding Draco and Snape.


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  #34  
Old June 16th, 2007, 8:37 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

I agree with silver ink pot and chparadise. But I do think Bella might have been helping Draco from outside the castle through the year. Draco implies to Snape before Christmas that he has outside assistance of some sort, better than Crabbe and Goyle. And it seems, from that conversation, that she was training Draco (at least at Occlumency, and I would guess in other stuff too) over the summer.


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  #35  
Old June 16th, 2007, 11:29 pm
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Re: conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

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Originally Posted by hphphp62442 View Post
I also agree that the group who entered Hogwarts were the people who were considered expendable. As for Fenrir, remember Draco says that he didn't know Fenrir was going to be there? He could have found out about it and then came along at the last second.
i forgot about that(i seriously need to re-read half-blood prince).As for Bellatrix's absence i think voldemort doesn't want her to mess up like she did at the department of mysteries in OOTP.


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  #36  
Old June 17th, 2007, 4:24 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

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Originally Posted by chparadise View Post
My own opinion is that Bella wasn't there because LV recognizes that Bella and Draco have a family relationship, too.
This is my opinion as well. If Bella had been there, she might have helped Draco with his task, and I doubt Voldemort wanted Draco to have help in killing Dumbledore.

But Bella's absence could have been for other reasons, like perhaps he had her busy on some other task. Or as others have said, Voldemort could have refrained from sending his most important people.


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  #37  
Old June 17th, 2007, 9:11 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

I never looked at it that way, but yeah, it would be a perfect oppurtunity to test Snape's loyalty.


  #38  
Old June 18th, 2007, 4:14 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

I get the impression that nobody really knew about Draco's plan. Once Dumbledore had left, whoever was around at the time simply bundled into Borgin & Burkes to get to the school as soon as possible. perhaps Bellatrix was not around.

Alternatively, LV might not have needed such a finished approach as the one he used in MoM. The Death eaters he chose were simply there to punch a hole through any resistance so that Malfoy could get to Dumbledore and the dark mark could be put up. Lestrange would have spent too much time stopping for chats 'oooo i remember you mr longbottom' 'ur a talented little witch arent you' etc. etc.


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Old June 18th, 2007, 6:34 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

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Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
Bella wasn't there probably because she might have been tempted to kill Dumbledore herself - for the glory.
That's a good suggestion. Bella is a bit unhinged - she's loyal, but unhinged enough that she would violate orders if she had a strong enough impulse to.

I think she might also be a little too close to Draco (at least in the sense of feeling a familial bond for her nephew) - she might kill DD in an effort to 'help' Draco.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
So the "Big V" wanted this to be the Draco-Snape show, to see what would happen.
I agree.


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  #40  
Old June 18th, 2007, 7:05 pm
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Re: Conspicuous absence of Bellatrix

Voldemort was also conspicuously absent during Harry's sixth year, wasn't he? Perhaps Bella was helping him prepare some evil attack that won't take place until after Dumbledore is dead.


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