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Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?



 
 
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  #81  
Old August 23rd, 2006, 2:57 am
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead
What is your reasoning for him taking it at the start of the term? He did not know that Harry was late until everyone arrived, and then the Patronus came probaby about that time so he wouldn't have had time to take a swig of Felix unless he carries it around with him wherever he goes, which seems highly unlikely.
Did Harry need to take Felix with him to see get the memory from Slughorn. No. The plan was to go to his office and convince Slughorn for the Horcrux memory. After he took the Felix it told him to go to Hagrid's which at the time did not make sense. But low and behold Slughorn was in the garden with Sprout. I see the same think happening at the opening feast. Harry is late and Tonks finds him and brings him to the castle, she sends a message to Hagrid. But Hagrid is a couple of minutes late and Snape is just in the right spot to take the message. Seems pretty lucky. I am suggesting that Snape had a need to put the idea in Harry's head that patronuses can change. He took some Felix before the train arrived, and everything seemed to work just right for: Hagrid to be late, Tonks to be bringing Harry to the castle, and Snape is in the right spot to intercept Tonks' message. He took the Felix before the train arrive and took enough for it to still be working during the feast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead
You're suggesting that he used it when he heard Myrtle shout about the murder in the bathroom? Again, I doubt he was carrying it around everywhere, and I do not see what the lucky potion would have done for him in the bathroom anyway.
Again, Snape doesn't need to be carrying it around. He just needs to drink some and Felix leads the way. I believe it lead him near the bathroom to hear Myrtle shouting. Because if Snape wasn't in the right spot and Draco had been killed then Snape's a dead man. Awful LUCKY for Snape that he was so close by don't you think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead
Snape may use Felix Felicis occasionally, but I'm guessing that using it as often as you are suggesting Snape does would be disastrous to him.
And that is the premise. I think he is using it more often than he should and it could lead to his downfall in the next book.


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  #82  
Old August 23rd, 2006, 4:00 am
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defyeverything
I agree that Slughorn didn't have the time to brew the potion inorder for it to be ready in Septemeber. However I don't agree that Snape used it when talking with Voldemort or Dumbledore because in HBP it states: "Now, I must give you warning that Felix Felicis is a banned substance in organized competitions...sporting events, for instance, examinations, or elections. So the winner is to use it on an ordinary day only...and watch how that ordinart day become extraordinary!" (HBP, Pg 188) So it would make sense that it wouldn't work if you took it to keep playing the double agent role.
Although, I don't think that he used it, it was just a theory. I don't think that Snape cared about using it on an Ordinary day. You are supposed to, but I doubt he plays by the rules, so he didn't really care. I think it still would have worked on any day, and if Snape were to use it, it would probably work.


  #83  
Old August 23rd, 2006, 5:13 am
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by muggl3tt3
Although, I don't think that he used it, it was just a theory. I don't think that Snape cared about using it on an Ordinary day. You are supposed to, but I doubt he plays by the rules, so he didn't really care. I think it still would have worked on any day, and if Snape were to use it, it would probably work.
Was there question somewhere about it working or not on Snape?


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  #84  
Old August 23rd, 2006, 7:51 am
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

I haven't read all the posts - just the first one, but I do like the theory. I wonder exactly how it works when two opposing sides both take felix at the same time, as would have happened according to this theory.


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Old August 23rd, 2006, 5:30 pm
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rell
I haven't read all the posts - just the first one, but I do like the theory. I wonder exactly how it works when two opposing sides both take felix at the same time, as would have happened according to this theory.
Great question!

I see several possibilities.
1) The task for the person who took it first gets more attention from Felix because the wheels are already in motion for them to be lucky.

2) The task for the person who took it second gets more attention from Felix because the potion is more potent in the second having taken it more recent.

3)Felix balances the luck between them to give the best outcome possible for both, but not the best outcome for either one.

I'm leaning towards 3.

Let's say Snape's goal was to wait in his room. Knock Harry out as he entered. Get to the tower unscathed. Do what he planned to do. Take Draco and leave. The best outcome would have been for Snape to "kill" Dumbledore and leave without anyone knowing he was the one that did it, other than Death Eaters and Draco.

Hermione's goal was to watch Snape and stop him if she could. So her best possible outcome would be for Harry to never show up, therefore Snape would never leave his room and Hermione would not be in danger.

So take these two best outcomes and throw them in the Felix Felicis blender and what do we have. Harry does not make it to Snape's office because Dumbledore had to freeze him on the tower to protect him. Flitwick shows up instead of Harry to get Snape. Snape tells Hermione to go tend to Flitwick and Felix nudges her to obey because if she doesn't Snape would attack her too. Snape shows up on the tower, but Harry is a witness to the event. And then Harry goes chasing after Snape.

So it really wasn't the best for either one, but in the balance of the two it was the best compromise. Snape's goal was achieved, but a witness was present. Hermione's goal was achieved in that Harry did not show up, but Snape still got past her.

Possible?


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  #86  
Old August 23rd, 2006, 7:06 pm
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Your explanation is spot-on. We know that Hermione took some Felix, and if Snape took some as well (very likely), the Potion did achieve the best compromise for both of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuelpagan
The worst addicts are ones who think they are in control of their addiction. I can see Felix becoming very addictive. Snape may have known better. But there are many addicts that knew better and still became addicts.
Good point. You got me convinced. Being a double-agent is a tricky business, so I can see him starting to carry around an emergency bottle of Felix. That could have easily tempted him to take a couple of swigs too many.

btw: Addictiveness isn't explicitly mentioned by Slughorn (though I also think it is very likely that Felix is addictive). What he mentions though is that it's 'highly toxic in large quantities'. This could be an explanation for Snape's sallow complexion and his greasy hair.


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  #87  
Old August 23rd, 2006, 8:13 pm
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quidagis
Addictiveness isn't explicitly mentioned by Slughorn (though I also think it is very likely that Felix is addictive). What he mentions though is that it's 'highly toxic in large quantities'. This could be an explanation for Snape's sallow complexion and his greasy hair.
Funny, but not much of a possibility. By the way, what constitutes "large"?


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  #88  
Old August 23rd, 2006, 8:30 pm
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emmasgoodlookin
Funny, but not much of a possibility. By the way, what constitutes "large"?
There I am, trying to be nice to old Snivelly by finding an alternative explanation for his greasy hair which does not accuse him of being oblivious to the basic principles of personal hygiene... and you aren't buying it.

Seriously. If Snape took Felix in quantities that would usually be toxic, it would fit the pattern of drug abuse. Drug addicts start to need the substance they're addicted to in increasingly larger doses. The body is conditioned to digest the intake, and when they reach a point where the addiction is undeniable and really serious, they're already consuming doses that would be deadly for a person who's never consumed the drug in question.


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  #89  
Old August 23rd, 2006, 8:40 pm
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quidagis
If Snape took Felix in quantities that would usually be toxic, it would fit the pattern of drug abuse. Drug addicts start to need the substance they're addicted to in increasingly larger doses. The body is conditioned to digest the intake, and when they reach a point where the addiction is undeniable and really serious, they're already consuming doses that would be deadly for a person who's never consumed the drug in question.
Good point. So if Snape took enough to get addicted, he would be going nuts by now and getting just about everything he wanted. So if he took Felix Felicis at any time during the series it probably wasnt more than once or twice. But as I said before, I think that there is something to it that is huge whether Snape had taken some or somebody else because I dont think JK would bring it up not to have it play a HUGE role in the series. Also I think it could have been taken by someboy in an earlier book. Whenever JK brings something new to the series she has a charachter say something about when they saw it or used it or something, but not with Felix. So will we learn more about the history of it in book 7?


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  #90  
Old August 23rd, 2006, 9:59 pm
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quidagis
Seriously. If Snape took Felix in quantities that would usually be toxic, it would fit the pattern of drug abuse. Drug addicts start to need the substance they're addicted to in increasingly larger doses. The body is conditioned to digest the intake, and when they reach a point where the addiction is undeniable and really serious, they're already consuming doses that would be deadly for a person who's never consumed the drug in question.
True. But I think the large quantity limitation is so that someone can't take a whole cauldron full and be lucky for an entire year. By only being able to take 24 hours worth at a time it eliminates this possibility.


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Old August 24th, 2006, 12:20 am
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuelpagan
True. But I think the large quantity limitation is so that someone can't take a whole cauldron full and be lucky for an entire year. By only being able to take 24 hours worth at a time it eliminates this possibility.
That was my question, how much is large quantity?


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  #92  
Old August 24th, 2006, 6:45 pm
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

I added my answer for Rell for the question, "What happens when two people with opposite goals are both using Felix Felicis," to the opening post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmasgoodlookin
That was my question, how much is large quantity?
For the answer to that question we will need to wait for an answer from JKR. All we know is that 2 tablespoons is a safe amount to take at one time.


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Old August 24th, 2006, 7:38 pm
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emmasgoodlookin
Good point. So if Snape took enough to get addicted, he would be going nuts by now and getting just about everything he wanted. So if he took Felix Felicis at any time during the series it probably wasnt more than once or twice. But as I said before, I think that there is something to it that is huge whether Snape had taken some or somebody else because I dont think JK would bring it up not to have it play a HUGE role in the series. Also I think it could have been taken by someboy in an earlier book. Whenever JK brings something new to the series she has a charachter say something about when they saw it or used it or something, but not with Felix. So will we learn more about the history of it in book 7?
That's true. We could open up a whole can of worms if we start second-guessing all the instances where something went right for someone, however. It's got to be something huge. It's in the same book, but the most likely Felix-user besides Snape and those we know for sure about would be Regulus Black (assuming he is RAB).
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmasgoodlookin
That was my question, how much is large quantity?
We can only guess, unfortunately.


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  #94  
Old August 26th, 2006, 12:44 pm
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by muggl3tt3
Although, I don't think that he used it, it was just a theory. I don't think that Snape cared about using it on an Ordinary day. You are supposed to, but I doubt he plays by the rules, so he didn't really care. I think it still would have worked on any day, and if Snape were to use it, it would probably work.
Well if the felix only works by the rules Slughorn mentioned, then it wouldn't work on days where you knew something was going to happen and you needed luck because of it. So the reason it work for Harry the day he went for the memory is because, he wasn't sure what would happend. The reason it worked for Luna, Neville, Ginny, Ron and Hermione that night is because all though they all were on watch, they weren't sure anything was going to happen. So if Snape was to take it when he knew he needed it, I don't think it would still work for him. Maybe there would be an effect like Ron's when he thought Harry sliped him some but the actual activating things that make it work, would be in void.


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Old August 26th, 2006, 1:28 pm
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defyeverything
Well if the felix only works by the rules Slughorn mentioned, then it wouldn't work on days where you knew something was going to happen and you needed luck because of it. So the reason it work for Harry the day he went for the memory is because, he wasn't sure what would happend. The reason it worked for Luna, Neville, Ginny, Ron and Hermione that night is because all though they all were on watch, they weren't sure anything was going to happen. So if Snape was to take it when he knew he needed it, I don't think it would still work for him. Maybe there would be an effect like Ron's when he thought Harry sliped him some but the actual activating things that make it work, would be in void.
I actually think the opposite is the case. They wouldn't need to forbid Felix for sporting events or exams if the Potion wouldn't work anyway.


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  #96  
Old August 27th, 2006, 9:39 am
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

I'd say a safe quantity is anything less than your usual cup of pumpkin juice.


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Old August 28th, 2006, 7:58 pm
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?
Wow, now Snape's officially been accused of 'abusing' every person or thing in this series...


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  #98  
Old August 29th, 2006, 7:19 am
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quidagis
I actually think the opposite is the case. They wouldn't need to forbid Felix for sporting events or exams if the Potion wouldn't work anyway.
Well maybe there's an unknown to us side effect if you do take the potion in a sporting even or exam. Which is why they banned it, for the protection of those involved.


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Old August 29th, 2006, 7:22 am
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defyeverything
Well maybe there's an unknown to us side effect if you do take the potion in a sporting even or exam. Which is why they banned it, for the protection of those involved.
I know this is the magic world and all but if there is a side effect I dont think it would be because of a certain place you took it at. Do we see anything else in the world of JK like this? I dont know. I will try to find something and get back to you with it.


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  #100  
Old August 29th, 2006, 7:22 am
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Re: Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?

Sorry, but I don't think he is, because I have yet to see Snape, Giddy. actually Snape Giddy would frighten more than the dark, brooding demonor.


 
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