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Laughing girl in Snape's Memory



 
 
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  #61  
Old October 4th, 2006, 1:24 am
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Hey folks - thanks for all the great responses so far!

On the topic of Lily, I agree that Lily wouldn't be the type to laugh maliciously at someone. But (and this doesn't necessarily have to apply to Lily) perhaps we are interpreting this memory wrong. We're assuming that this was cruel laughter - could it have been that of a friend who's innocently amused, and trying to keep things light? Granted, it doesn't seem likely in the case of Snape.

I also think hwyla made a really good point about the broom being hexed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hwyla
OotP, Seen and Unforseen: "...A girl was laughing as a scrawny boy tried to mount a bucking broomstick

'Bucking' pretty much describes what happened to Harry's broom in his first Quidditch Game. Is that why Snape learned how to break a broom hex?


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  #62  
Old October 8th, 2006, 9:26 am
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

There is no proof though that Lily and Snape liked each other, the time they were together they argued with each other, Snape sent Lily to her death! I don't think there was an attraction there. There's a lot of posts saying thet knew each other but nothing to back it up.


  #63  
Old October 8th, 2006, 7:03 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Snape and Lily were Slughorn's prize students and would have been in NEWTS Potions together. And it's interesting that Snape's hobby is telling Harry what a gorp James was but he never says anything bad about Lily. (He doesn't ever mention her at all, but it has to mean something that he uses only one of Harry's parents to torment him.) In "Career Advice" in Order when Harry contacts 12G to talk to Sirius about his father--a conversation Lupin is part of as well--Lupin seems to be speaking very carefully when the conversation turns to the Hogwarts relationship between Snape and James.

It's also significant that we know that Snape began working as a spy for Dumbledore at great personal risk before Voldemort's power was broken--which means before James and Lily were killed (Dumbledore's testimony in "The Pensieve" in Goblet). In Prince ("The Seer Overheard") Dumbledore tells Harry that he thinks Snape turned to him because of the way Voldemort interpreted the Prophecy (to attack the Potters). Putting these together sounds to me like Snape accurately betrayed Voldemort's plans to the Order and used his double agent access to warn Dumbledore (or the Potters directly) when they were in danger. In "The Marauder's Map" in PoA we're told that Voldemort seemed to be aware of the Potters' movements; this is apparently why Dumbledore thought one of the Potters' friends was a spy.

I find it hard to believe that Snape, who had to know when he told the Prophecy that some young family would suffer for it, suddenly was appalled at the idea that Voldemort was going to attack somebody. Nor do I believe he put himself into danger for the Potters' sakes because he was so attached to James.


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  #64  
Old October 8th, 2006, 9:48 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

For more Snape/Lily arguments just like these, please go to The Snape and Lily thread.

We now return you to your actual thread topic...

Maybe it was Florence.


  #65  
Old October 8th, 2006, 9:52 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Yeh, Im with ignesia. I didn't think much about the girl when I read it, maybe just a girl that Snape liked. I still think that, sort of, but now after reading those certain theories, it might be Lily. But, in truth, laughing at Snape does not sound like Lily's character. She would probably have felt sorry for Snape, depending on what time Snape was trying to ride this bucking broomstick. So it can go both ways, it might just be 'a girl' and we will never know this girl's identity.


  #66  
Old October 8th, 2006, 10:00 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

just a girl...


  #67  
Old October 8th, 2006, 10:42 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62442al Man
But, in truth, laughing at Snape does not sound like Lily's character. She would probably have felt sorry for Snape, .
Unless it was two kids taking turns on it, bouncing around like idiots, falling on the ground and laughing their butts off.


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  #68  
Old October 8th, 2006, 10:43 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkwolf View Post
Here's a thought: Andromeda Black.
I find it funny that you would think that because I wrote a ficlet about this memory and that's exactly who I picked. I also opted for the laughing girl to not have done so maliciously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capella_black View Post
Let's not forget the broom is actually hexed. Brooms don't normally buck like that. Whoever the girl is, she probably hexed the broom herself.
I will shamelessly force you to read the fic to see how else a broom might buck non-maliciously.


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  #69  
Old October 8th, 2006, 11:05 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by coco1965 View Post
Unless it was two kids taking turns on it, bouncing around like idiots, falling on the ground and laughing their butts off.
Hmm, thats a good way to look at it. The vision infers the girl was laughing at him, not with him though, but that is interesting.


  #70  
Old October 10th, 2006, 7:12 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by coco1965 View Post
Unless it was two kids taking turns on it, bouncing around like idiots, falling on the ground and laughing their butts off.
Exactly. When we discussed this vision in the Snape/Lily thread, I likened it to two kids who are friends learning to rollerblade together. They do laugh their butts off at each other when they fall down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62442al_Man View Post
Hmm, thats a good way to look at it. The vision infers the girl was laughing at him, not with him though, but that is interesting.
I don't think the tiny little snippet of a vision itself infers that the girl is laughing at him. Rather I think our interpretation of it is influenced by the other images. We've just seen the first image of the shouting man, cowering woman and crying boy, which is negative, and we've seen a brooding teenager alone and bored, also negative and hinting at Snape's unpopularity, so when the image is presented, it's somewhat natural to think it is a negative memory as well, but it isn't necessarily. If JKR wanted the image to be another example of Snape being teased, she could easily have said the girl was laughing "at" him, but instead she used the ambiguous "laughing as" which completely opens up the possibility that it was a happy memory.

Also, Harry sees the image of his mother and father in the Mirror of Erised in the same sequence with the dragon and Cedric's dead body, so the Mirror image is a bittersweet memory thrown in with a couple of horrifying images. In any case, the image of the girl was the one which prompted Snape to shout "ENOUGH!" He is also noted as being very white in the face, much the same as he is described as being "paler than usual" following Harry's dragon/ James & Lily/Cedric vision.

Another reason I personally connect Lily to the laughing girl is that Snape goes over to the pensieve just after and Harry notes that it seems "almost as though checking that they were still there." We do know that he has at least one memory with Lily in that pensieve.

I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread, but great thread topic, owlpostgirl! That laughing girl "feels" important.


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  #71  
Old October 14th, 2006, 9:05 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62442al_Man View Post
I didn't think much about the girl when I read it, maybe just a girl that Snape liked. I still think that, sort of, but now after reading those certain theories, it might be Lily. But, in truth, laughing at Snape does not sound like Lily's character.
Agreed, it sounds a lot more like Narcissa and Bella. I still like the idea that the reason Sirius put Snape as one of Bella's 'gang' even though he was 8 years her junior was because Snape was brought along by his sitter (Bella is older so she is more likely).

And I can definitely see Bella and friends hexing a broom and talking Snape into trying it.


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  #72  
Old October 15th, 2006, 12:40 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

If Jo mentions something... its almost always impoortant.

I think that was Lily. Her past will be revealed in the coming book...


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  #73  
Old October 15th, 2006, 12:48 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by banana_fritter View Post
It might be Lily because she was only about 11 or 12, so it'd be easy to laugh. It might not be Lily because she seems like someone who woudn't laugh at someone else's mistakes.
I agree; Lily might be the one because it was Snape himself who was making the mistake of mounting a broom, and she would be angry at someone (James) for torturing him. ....Socially torturing him.


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  #74  
Old October 15th, 2006, 2:51 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASKhan_Moony View Post
If Jo mentions something... its almost always impoortant.
**coughcoughmarkevanscoughcough**


I think if the girl in the memory is anybody it is probably Lily. Also if they were friends before hogwarts, who's to say snape wouldn't show her a broom or tell her about the wizarding world. If they were close friends it's very possible. Younger kids sometimes share secrets without thinking much about the possible consequences. Then it just so happened she turned out to be a witch.


  #75  
Old April 4th, 2007, 3:33 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

I think the better bet is Bella or Narcissa. Sirius's words tie Snape to Bella and given she is 8 years his senior it seems believable this connection had to occur pre-Hogwarts (Sirius says Snape knew more curses BEFORE HE ARRIVED than most seventh years - implying Sirius had contact with Snape pre-Hogwarts.)

And JKR says Sirius and Snape loathed one another and we will find out why.


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  #76  
Old April 4th, 2007, 3:37 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

If it wasn't Lily, maybe it was some random girl that just happened to be there when he was climbing onto the broomstick.


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  #77  
Old April 4th, 2007, 3:56 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

First off, we don't have any indication of how old Snape or the girl was. a "scrawny boy" could have been a young boy or a teenager. I took it to be the first time Snape tried to ride broom with someone else watching. (It reminded me of Neville.) Obviously Snape gets better at the broom, he refereed a Quidditch match in the first book.

I never bought the idea that Snape was jealous of James' Quidditch Skills. Snape is a book worm, not a jock. The only cannon we have to suggest this is Lupin in POA and even he says it's just a guess. It's possible but kind of cliche. (Nerd envies Jock zzzz....)


  #78  
Old April 4th, 2007, 3:57 pm
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

I don't think it was Lily either, to me it seems kind of unlikely even with the Snape/Lily speculation... it just seems like we would have been given more of a clue if it was Lily, or that Harry would have noticed. I find it likely that it was either Bellatrix or Narcissa; at least, it was definitely somebody he wanted to impress, I'm assuming - it wouldn't have been a semantic memory otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhanax315
maybe it was some random girl that just happened to be there when he was climbing onto the broomstick.
But this is J.K. Rowling's writing we're talking about!


  #79  
Old April 5th, 2007, 4:00 am
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bscorp View Post
I took it to be the first time Snape tried to ride broom with someone else watching. (It reminded me of Neville.) Obviously Snape gets better at the broom, he refereed a Quidditch match in the first book.
I think Harry describes the broom stick as 'bucking' or something. Rather like Harry's jinxed broom in a Quidditch match. Was the laughing girl actually causing the bucking? If so, I'd lay odds on Bella. But then if it was a particularly humiliating experience (as Harry seemed to be reliving in his memories) Narcissa might be the better bet. I don't see Lily laughing - and her red hair should have been noteworthy. I agree with DarkSphynx, Lily seems less likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSphynx View Post
I don't think it was Lily either, to me it seems kind of unlikely even with the Snape/Lily speculation... it just seems like we would have been given more of a clue if it was Lily, or that Harry would have noticed. I find it likely that it was either Bellatrix or Narcissa; at least, it was definitely somebody he wanted to impress, I'm assuming - it wouldn't have been a semantic memory otherwise.
Agreed, which makes me tempted to select Narcissa - I know she is much older than Snape but we only have to look as far as Ron for a boy that looks at older women (Rosmerta anyone? Fleur?)

Narcissa manipulated Snape beautifully at Spinner's end, I think he cared about what she thought of him.


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Thanks to coco1965 for my new buddy the goat...I call him 'Abby'.

I finally wrote up my web of speculations and posted them here: Book 7: What clues has JKR given us?

"I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts." - Mark Twain
  #80  
Old April 5th, 2007, 4:54 am
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Re: Laughing girl in Snape's Memory

Well I don't think it was Lily, becasue to me JK always mentions when a character has red hair or blond hair, if she doesn't say then I asume that they have dark hair. So I'm asuming that this person has dark hair. Besides I doubt that Lily would laugh at him like that.


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