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Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 7th, 2007, 8:47 pm
zinner  Female.gif zinner is offline
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Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

I was re-reading the "Spinners End" chapter and something struck me that I have not heard discussed before. As soon as Bella and Narcisa enter the house, Snape is practically forcing them to drink wine...and they both do. Narcisa is even given a second helping after she spills some.

In ordinary circumstances this might mean nothing, but with a very talented potions Master doing the pouring....it is very interesting. Is it possible that they were both given potions that in some way effected the unbreakable vow or their view of events. I can't think what potion it could be but it is very interesting. Possibly wormtail is even in on adding the potion and that is why he is acting so strange. Maybe he doesn't want to do it because it will be his first real resistance to LV but he has decided to help Snape in his work for Dumbledore because of his life debt to Harry.


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Old March 7th, 2007, 8:52 pm
sum_insana  Female.gif sum_insana is offline
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

i can't remember and don't have the book with me, but didn't bellatrix seem a trifle suspicious about drinking the wine, and snape, noticing, drank first? maybe i'm making that up.


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  #3  
Old March 7th, 2007, 10:31 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

I saw nothing more in this scene than Snape being a good host by offering his guests the best wine.


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  #4  
Old March 7th, 2007, 10:43 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

And the ladies seemed a bit .... not sure best way to say it . ...on edge? They clearly shouldn't have been there. Alcohol is a good way to calm nerves and generally as a good host offering wine around would be polite.

I like the idea that Snape would poison them but i don't think that we can read anymore into this than there is actually there: a host being polite. Apart from anything else, poisoning Bellatrix and Narcissa would not really achieve anything: it could make LV suspicious, and it would not really be of any great help to the Order (though i imagine some would like to see the back of Bellatrix).


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Old March 7th, 2007, 10:49 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

Quote:
Originally Posted by sum_insana View Post
i can't remember and don't have the book with me, but didn't bellatrix seem a trifle suspicious about drinking the wine, and snape, noticing, drank first? maybe i'm making that up.
That's a very interesting theory and definitely possible. But even if Snape did drink first it would have effected the UV on both ends.
I like the idea of Wormtail helping almost out of compulsion connected with his life debt, and it would explain his strange behavior.
I don't think there's any way to prove it, but I think it's a definite possibility.

EDIT: Also, wine, potions, and Snape have been linked before. In book 1, Snape's riddle involves deadly potions, safe potions, and wine! Could be a connection.


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Last edited by kala_way; March 7th, 2007 at 11:23 pm.
  #6  
Old March 7th, 2007, 11:16 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

That's interesting, but I thought the only significance to the wine was toasting Voldie. But then again, there is quite a bit of emphasis on poisoned wine in that book... I mean, it nearly killed one of our main characters...

Not to suggest it was actually poisoned... I suppose spiked would be a more appropriate word.


And it's not just wine... Hermione thought Harry had slipped the Felix into Ron's juice... and in OotP Umbridge tried to spike Harry's tea with veritaserum. Perhaps this is just a popular theme, or maybe it's a clue. There's no rule against overanalyzing, right?


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Old March 7th, 2007, 11:31 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

Quote:
Originally Posted by RWeasleysgirl View Post
That's interesting, but I thought the only significance to the wine was toasting Voldie. But then again, there is quite a bit of emphasis on poisoned wine in that book... I mean, it nearly killed one of our main characters...

Not to suggest it was actually poisoned... I suppose spiked would be a more appropriate word.


And it's not just wine... Hermione thought Harry had slipped the Felix into Ron's juice... and in OotP Umbridge tried to spike Harry's tea with veritaserum. Perhaps this is just a popular theme, or maybe it's a clue. There's no rule against overanalyzing, right?
Half the point of these threads to analyse every word . . . (does that class as over-analysing, hope not . . . )

If we assume there was spiking/poisoning; Snape drank first: he could easily have an antidote.


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Old March 7th, 2007, 11:51 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

Snape to me acted like Dumbledore the way he was so nice to Bellatrix and the way he offered wine to Bellatrix and Narcissa. It reminded me of when he was at the Dursleys always offering something to drink acting very hopitably.


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Old March 8th, 2007, 12:48 am
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

Snape most probably didn't expect any visitors, so I doubt he prepared some kind of manipulation poisoning, but was mainly being polite and offered them drinks, also with the intention of calming down Narcissa a bit. When the sisters arrived, he pretty much ordered Wormtail to bring them drinks right away, and Wormtail wouldn't have known witch potion to include in the wine even if Snape had prepared several for unpleasant visitors. I don't think Snape would have thought that was necessary though, as he is an extremely powerful wizard.

He also had no clue that Narcissa was going to ask him to perform the Unbreakable Vow, as he was seemingly surprised when Narcissa asked him to do it - his hesitation showed that. So he wouldn't have thought of preparing him for it with the wine, if that is even possible. He also drank the wine himself, and he wouldn't want to poison and manipulate himself, would he? He could have transfigured it under the table or something, but the sisters (Bella in particular) might have done the same. All in all, this theory isn't very plausible.


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Old March 8th, 2007, 12:53 am
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

Well, yes, it is very possible that Snape could have added something that affected thier opinions or something, but if he did, I doubt it was for Dumbledore, and Pettigrew was in on it.


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Old March 8th, 2007, 1:28 am
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

Didn't Snape ask for a certain wine? Being the kind of wizard he is I wouldn't be surprised if he had bottles of wine already spiked with certain potions. Maybe thats what he had Wormtail go get?


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Old March 8th, 2007, 12:34 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

If it had been left as an unanswered plotpoint, I would have thought it possible that the wine was something else. But we've already seen that the UV was made, Snape was carrying it out as best he could, and Dumbledore had to die because of it. There's no room for suspicion anymore.

And if the wine really was spiked with some potion, it wouldn't effect the UV. Maybe it helped soothe their nerves or make Bella less suspicious or something, but it definitely didn't change the UV.

Wormtail shouldn't necessarily have been in on the plan. Snape could just have added some potion to the bottles there and was just asking him to go and get the drinks.


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  #13  
Old March 8th, 2007, 1:38 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

I don't think it would have affected the UV, but I do think it's posible there may have been something in it.


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Old March 8th, 2007, 8:14 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

How could the wine have affected the UV itself?


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Old March 8th, 2007, 9:16 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

I'm not sure there is anything that can interfere with the Unbreakable Vow. To be that binding it must be some powerful magic.


I remember Snape specifying that Wormtail should bring the elf-made wine out, but does anyone remember if Wormtail reacted to that? I know he muttered about being treated like a servant that whole scene but I was just wondering if he reacted to that at all... I should really start getting my books out before I get on the computer...


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Old March 8th, 2007, 11:18 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

It is highly possible that the drinks were spiked as Snape is always well prepared for any event, however, like mentioned before, the UV is pretty much unbreakable so i doubt even Snape could have developed a potion to protect against its effects!

Its also common for visitors to be offered alcohol by their hosts, especially if they're not drivin (i doubt the sisters would even touch a muggle car lol)


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Old March 9th, 2007, 5:09 am
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

I think it was just the act of a good host.


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Old March 9th, 2007, 5:22 am
Leslie33  Female.gif Leslie33 is offline
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

He's just being polite and maybe trying to help calm Narcissa down. But other than that, I see him as being polite so not to give Bellatrix reason to get suspicious or suggest it herself.


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Old March 10th, 2007, 12:15 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

It's a good theory which I won't totally rule out, but I think there is too much reading into it. i think it was mainly a way of snape humiliating wormtail by making him act the part of servant


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Old March 10th, 2007, 1:09 pm
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Re: Wine, potions, and the unbreakable vow

i was thinking about this one too some time ago. the offering of drinks seems to play an important role in book six and there are lots of possibilities: poisening someone (like ron) or just beeing polite (dumbledore). and also potions play a very important role: the half blood princes book and of course felix.i am not sure if this could be a clue. but it is very obviously that snape nearly forced narcissa to drink more.but otherwise, i have just no idea what snape could have done in the wine.


 
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