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Grawp: Character Analysis



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  #21  
Old May 11th, 2008, 1:25 pm
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by chunkylvr678 View Post
Being brutal and fighting is just their nature, and they are not meant to mingle with humans.
I don't think that's true. Or what has exactly been the point of JKR to show us a full fleshed giant getting on quite well with students after the war?

I think it is, as others have said, another sign of showing the predjudices.

Giants in general are not meant to be in groups, that's why they killed each other, not because they are brutal and nasty by nature. I'm positive that the Giants would live perfectly normal, hunting deers and stuff, if they could live solitary. But they can't because they were persecuted by wizards.


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  #22  
Old May 11th, 2008, 8:03 pm
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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Giants in general are not meant to be in groups, that's why they killed each other, not because they are brutal and nasty by nature. I'm positive that the Giants would live perfectly normal, hunting deers and stuff, if they could live solitary. But they can't because they were persecuted by wizards.
I agree. They are not allowed to live the way they would naturally do and living together with other giants is against their nature. Besides, wizards expect giants to act and react like humans although they are clearly not. Just because giants have different reactions and reflexes as well as customs does not mean that they deserve to be hunted down and wiped out.


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  #23  
Old May 11th, 2008, 8:36 pm
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

1. How do you think Grawp would react to someone harming Hagrid? Think of what Grawp has been through. He had no mother to protect him and he was the smallest giant in a vicious band of giants where their forced close cohabitation led to violence and disputes regurarly. He probably got attacked a lot and received the most meagre amounts of food. Then he was essentially kidnapped, er giantnapped and forced to travel against his will across many countries where he was held captive by what he saw as wizards and seeing as I'm sure he was taught to fear wizards this must have been scary for him. Finally, somehow he must have realized that Hagrid cared for him and had actually brought him to safety as opposed to away from it. So, to Grawp Hagrid is someone who saved him even though it was dangerous and even though he fought him every step of the way and hurt him many times Hagrid didn't give up on him. Once Grawp realized this I'm sure he become very loyal to Hagrid.

What kinds of things do Hagrid and Grawp talk about when they have nice chats? I don't think they can communicate very well. Grawp seems to be learning English and Hagrid doesn't seem to speak Giant, but I'm sure they can communicate their feelings to each other with-out words. Providing food, comfort, shelter, and warmth to someone often speaks louder than words.

2. What does Grawp contribute to the series story?
I think he underlines one of the pivotal themes of the book being that prejudice is dumb. We're told that giants are nasty and dangerous, even Ron feels this way despite being close to a half giant, but clearly Dumbledore didn't feel this way or he wouldn't have bothered reaching out to the giants. I think if one reads between the lines in Hagrid's Tale chapter you'll see their violent nature has a lot to do with distrust of wizards and by the same token humans and that forcing them to live together in packs only exacerbates that. However, when we see Grawp the first time we're given the impression that the stereotypes are true and that they can't be safe. So as Grawp's story unfolds we learn not to judge a book by it's cover or to believe every stereotype we hear even if at first glance it seems to be true.

3. Is it at all suspicious that Grawp got "better" after Dumbledore spent a bit of time in the Forbidden Forest? Or did Grawp finally do what all the other giants used to tell him, grow up? I think it's possible that Dumbledore speaks Giant and was able to communicate to Grawp that he was brought here out of love and that they didn't want to harm him. However, I think seeing Dumbledore, who I'm sure even Grawp must have realized was a powerful wizard painstakingly make him a home in the mountains where he'd be comfortable (and away from the centaurs) must have even with-out words being necessary told Grawp that these people meant him no harm.

4. Any new thoughts on Grawp post DH? He seems like a young giant so I think it's possible a wife would be brought for him eventually and that they would slowly form a small giant family in the mountains near Hogwarts. I think this would go a long way to open the minds of people, that a safe giant family was cohabiting peacefully and in cooperation with the school. I also think his English would improve drastically.


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  #24  
Old May 11th, 2008, 11:00 pm
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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Giants in general are not meant to be in groups, that's why they killed each other, not because they are brutal and nasty by nature. I'm positive that the Giants would live perfectly normal, hunting deers and stuff, if they could live solitary. But they can't because they were persecuted by wizards.
They lived in the mountains (assumly somewhere close to Russia). You'd think there's still enough place for them. And there are things like "adaption".


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  #25  
Old May 12th, 2008, 8:41 am
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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They lived in the mountains (assumly somewhere close to Russia). You'd think there's still enough place for them. And there are things like "adaption".
Adaptation and evolution do not happen overnight though. That's why so many animals of our world are extinct.


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Old May 12th, 2008, 11:56 am
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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I agree. They are not allowed to live the way they would naturally do and living together with other giants is against their nature. Besides, wizards expect giants to act and react like humans although they are clearly not. Just because giants have different reactions and reflexes as well as customs does not mean that they deserve to be hunted down and wiped out.

I so agree with this. I think it was highly unfair to make the giants live together in such close proximity. They were almost entirely wiped out because of it and then turn on the wizarding world and fight for Voldemort when the time comes. Had the wizarding world treated them decently, I do not think that would have happened.


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  #27  
Old May 14th, 2008, 2:44 am
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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Adaptation and evolution do not happen overnight though. That's why so many animals of our world are extinct.
Well I mean it more in a way like integration, that they could find a way to live together and learn to interact with eachother in a normal way. Not evolution, which is more physically anyway. But when they are able to get in contact with humans and also mate with them, then I'd expect them to have the intelligence to handle situation other than killing eachother.


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  #28  
Old May 14th, 2008, 7:04 am
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Tenshi View Post
Well I mean it more in a way like integration, that they could find a way to live together and learn to interact with eachother in a normal way. Not evolution, which is more physically anyway. But when they are able to get in contact with humans and also mate with them, then I'd expect them to have the intelligence to handle situation other than killing eachother.
It's not so simple, in my view. It may be only integration for humans but giants do not seem to be made to live with each other. It's against their nature and has nothing to do with intelligence. This is more than a cultural obstacle, as I see it, it is a biological one.


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  #29  
Old May 14th, 2008, 9:56 am
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Tenshi View Post
that they could find a way to live together and learn to interact with eachother in a normal way.
But what is normal for humans is not necessarily normal for giants. As Moriath says, they are not meant to live in groups. And that is ok IMO. I'm sure that they would be fine meeting every few month but generally being solitary.

That might be a reason why Fridwulfa left Mr Hagrid, maybe they are not meant to live in a long term relationship.

Also Grawp, even if we see him quite ok with students and with Hagrid at the end of DH, I don't think he'd be happy living in the middle of London. He likes his cave and he likes to be left alone. Occasional social interactions are ok.

The main problem is that the persecution of the giants forced them to live constantly together, which led to problems. But even so, not all giants are brutal, Karkus seemed quite ok and perfectly able to have productive social interactions with humans. And he was interested in human matters, he had heard about Dumbledore.

The problem was with Golgomath, a giant who most likely got motivated by death eaters to make the putsch and kill Karkus.


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  #30  
Old May 14th, 2008, 6:23 pm
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

I think he might be subject to bit of discrimination if he lived in London anyway.
Plus the house would have to be HUGE.
It seems horrible to leave someone alone in acave for months on end, but if that is how a giant feels more comfortable and normal than that would be better anything else.


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  #31  
Old May 21st, 2008, 7:16 pm
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

He lives in a cave? Must have missed that.

To place a giant in the middle of London would be the most stupid thing to do and irresponsible towards the people there. To keep them away from normal people is the best thing to do. They aren't the most peaceful creatures around, so it's too dangerous to let them near people in a lot of cases.


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  #32  
Old March 2nd, 2010, 6:04 am
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

1. How do you think Grawp would react to someone harming Hagrid? What kinds of things do Hagrid and Grawp talk about when they have nice chats?
I feel sorry for anyone who tries to hurt Hagrid once Grawp finds out. That poor soul is gonna be very very hurt. As for their chats, I imagine Hagrid has some command of Giant (how else would he have communicated with them on his little journey to the mountains in OoTP?) so they talk in a combination of both.

2. What does Grawp contribute to the series story?

Through him, we learn more about Hagrid's past and connections to the giant world. Plus, he does contribute a little comic relief. He also shows how not all giants are inhuman beasts (as opposed to those who Hagrid met in the mountains).

3. Is it at all suspicious that Grawp got "better" after Dumbledore spent a bit of time in the Forbidden Forest? Or did Grawp finally do what all the other giants used to tell him, grow up?
I imagine Dumbledore was able to help him a bit.


4. Any new thoughts on Grawp post DH?

It wouldn't surprise me if he did become Hagrid's assistant. Did he ever find love? That's a question worth asking.


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  #33  
Old March 5th, 2010, 10:52 am
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by HeadLikeAHole View Post
Through him, we learn more about Hagrid's past and connections to the giant world. Plus, he does contribute a little comic relief. He also shows how not all giants are inhuman beasts (as opposed to those who Hagrid met in the mountains).
Grawp wasn't much better, he had to be chained up in the forest and he did hurt Hagrid. Violence was also in his blood. He had to be trained to be good.


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  #34  
Old March 5th, 2010, 1:11 pm
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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Grawp wasn't much better, he had to be chained up in the forest and he did hurt Hagrid. Violence was also in his blood. He had to be trained to be good.
It's got more to do with his nature than his character, imo. He was a giant and violence was a part of his nature. Just like the obedience was the nature of house elves.
IMO, he was better because he was ready to change. While in OOTP, he hurts Hagrid badly, in HBP, he's patting his back after Dumbledore's funeral and actually trying to comfort him. Which refers to the fact that he has some feelings like sympathy.
However, the other giants Hagrid and Madame Maxime met, were not even willing to listen to what they'd got to say. They turned Hagrid upside down and would've killed him if they'd got the chance. Also there's great difference between the giants who were fighting alongside the DEs and Grawp.

He had to be trained so he would be able to deal with humans without violence, like it Dobby took some time to be able to talk about the Malfoys without fear.


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  #35  
Old July 16th, 2010, 3:38 am
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Tenshi
Grawp wasn't much better, he had to be chained up in the forest and he did hurt Hagrid. Violence was also in his blood. He had to be trained to be good.
This hearkens back to the 2008 discussion.

I do agree that giants are naturally more violent than humans. However, as I said in my previous post, I do not think Grawp's violence was purely dictated by his giant heritage.

Firstly, giants are violent when in groups. That has been established by almost any mention of giants. Wizards are afraid of them, too, which shows that they are likely violent against trespassers (and those that use magic against them: again, not solely the blame of the giants to be violent). This is why the revelation that Hagrid is a half giant was so explosive, I believe. However, as we have been told in the books, giants were forced to go away from wizardkind - they were oppressed beings. That is the blame of wizards. Individually, I do not think giants are nearly as violent as in groups. However, as Hagrid told us, grouping all the giants together results in riots and fights. This is understandable: different tribes clash. Even in Muggle culture, this results in war. Different cultures persist, and giants (and, evidently, Muggles and wizards) decide to resolve this clash by violence. Thus, I do not see why giants are highlighted as being overly violent when sequestered to a certain area, with several tribes clashing.

Therefore, I think it is a product of culture that made Grawp more violent than the average human. It is not necessarily blood: Hagrid's blood was half giant, yet he is one of the kindest, gentlest characters we are introduced to. Again, it largely returns to culture and upbringing. Grawp was, as I see it, taught to be violent (it was a way of survival in the giant clans) just as he was re-taught, by Hagrid, to be docile. Not only does Grawp learn to be "tamed," but he learns it within a year! To me, that shows that Grawp's upbringing was not so centered around violence that he was unable to change. I think that speaks for Grawp's true nature, as well as giants' overall natures.

Therefore, while Grawp's upbringing of violence and his "giant ways" did contribute to his violence, I do not think they defined his character. As I said before, I think Grawp was continuously violent towards Hagrid because Hagrid took him away from his family, brought him to a foreign place, and tied him up. Hagrid basically kidnapped Grawp and held him against his will - why would Grawp not be violent?

And, of course, Hagrid eventually taught Grawp how to behave civilly, and this was achieved relatively quickly, in my opinion. I think that is the greatest testament to Grawp's true character.


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  #36  
Old July 26th, 2010, 6:30 am
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

1. How do you think Grawp would react to someone harming Hagrid? What kinds of things do Hagrid and Grawp talk about when they have nice chats?

I think Grawp would probably throw a fit. He loved Hagrid, you could tell during the Hogwarts battle when he was looking for him. and maybe Hagrid and Grawp talk about their mom? but i think mostly its Hagrid talking to Grawp like hes a small child and teaching him manners and how to talk

2. What does Grawp contribute to the series story?

I think hes an example of a giant who can be "tamed". Therefore, showing us that NOT all giants are brutal but maybe just misunderstood since no one has actually taken the time to teach them how to talk or how to behave like Hagrid did


3. Is it at all suspicious that Grawp got "better" after Dumbledore spent a bit of time in the Forbidden Forest? Or did Grawp finally do what all the other giants used to tell him, grow up?

i just think Grawp grew to love Hagrid and his company and began to try to behave himself for him

4. Any new thoughts on Grawp post DH?

i was very proud of him. He went against larger more brutal giants than himself and he held his own.


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  #37  
Old January 27th, 2011, 9:17 pm
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

Do-to-doo!


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Originally Posted by SageThyme View Post
1. How do you think Grawp would react to someone harming Hagrid? What kinds of things do Hagrid and Grawp talk about when they have nice chats?
Post-DH and actually even during the his time in the Forest in OotP, he'd have reacted exactly how he did in the Battle for Hogwarts IMO. He came around, saw the melee, hollered Hagger! and then put on the big boy boots and started stomping and smiting the two largest in reach, even though he was smaller then the two combined.

Does that say how willing giants are to kill one another? Hmm. I don't actually think so. I think in this case it shows how willing Grawp was to risk everything for his littlest big brother. Of, and that apparently Grawpy, bless his heart, has a long freaking memory. I wonder how long he'd been waiting for his chance to give some payback clobber of these to gargantuan bullies?

When it comes to the torment and the people who inflicted it, we've all got an elephant's memory.

Quote:
2. What does Grawp contribute to the series story?
That not all feared creatures are of an evil and had their own small roles to play in the story. That not all giants would fall to Voldemort, similar to how not all werewolves {Remus}, goblins {Griphook}, House Elves {Kreacher/Dobby/Hogwarts Elves} would follow him either.

Quote:
3. Is it at all suspicious that Grawp got "better" after Dumbledore spent a bit of time in the Forbidden Forest? Or did Grawp finally do what all the other giants used to tell him, grow up?
Actually, I think that Grawpy was on his way to recovery prior to Dumbledore's intervention in the Forest and I'll talk more about that further down the page.

Quote:
4. Any new thoughts on Grawp post DH?
That Giants are seriously misunderstood creatures and I really came to totally Grawp in DH.

Quote:
More questions: Who's his daddy? Why's he so runty? What happened to mommy Fridwulfa?
Okay, so obviously we don't know who exactly the giant was that fathered Grawpy, but I am curious. He should have, like his mother, died a long time ago - or he flat abandoned them both, which is a normal giant behavior if the offspring isn't big and strong. I previously posted on the Giants thread that this compulsion to have the biggest/strongest giant baby could be based on future connections, trying to perhaps pre-plan some of the future and hope that they'll have a prominent position if their child ever becomes Gurg.

And keeping this entirely PC and family friendly, Fridwulfa was okay with breeding outside her species...and possibly liked the smaller *hem hem* mates? Maybe it was a defense mechanism, that she needed to not feel fear over the size/temperament of her mates? This, if true, actually would lean her towards being more gentle than anyone gives giants credit for and in fact throws the idea of currying future favor with kids becoming potential Gurgs out the window. She'd have been thinking of herself, her safety, first and foremost and that's not a thought process ever ascribed to giants IMO.

Hagrid says its their nature to abandon smaller kids, but IF Fridwulfa had self-concern then her leaving him and his father - to be with her own kind - may have very well been motherly kindness and protection on her part. I do feel if she'd taken Hagrid off with her, he'd have been dead within the year, just from how we see giants interact amongst themselves. And so, her abandonment would not only be a kindness and thinking for someone other than herself - her child - she could also have considered what leaving her smaller mate would do to him emotionally. She could have been thinking of Mr Hagrid, his love and acceptance of her, and his need to have something good in his love. His gentleness with her would be indicative of his future gentleness with their child.

Perhaps it's not just his dad that who was the "gentle" person in the family after all, perhaps it was mum too?
Quote:
How'd Hagrid figure out they were brothers?
This would have been a natural curiousity IMO. He'd want to seek out his mum. And so to me, when they were cave crawling, looking for giants willing to be of aid to the wizarding community, is when he'd be popping questions about his mum...and of course be when he learned of his brother.

Actually, I think part of the reason they stayed so long was not just for Dumbledore's mission but because he'd learned of his biggest baby brother and he was determined to find him and take him back home...family should stick together.

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Why did he so want to live with the giants when they treated him so terribly? What were his initial feelings towards finding a halfling brother?
I do think it had to have been a frightening prospect, having lived so far off and basically told to stay put by the wizards who'd all but eradicated your race from the face of the planet...now being forcibly dragged across the continent by someone much smaller than you. Perhaps it was all of that plus he wasn't sure he believed in the wizards - giants feared magic - need for his future aid. Maybe he was afraid he was finally being culled from the herd?

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Why'd Madame Maxime have such a hard row to hoe in dealing with him or is it more the lack of magic she was forced to endure?
Hagrid said she could rough it, and rough it I no doubt she did. But I also think that part of her problems - besides from Grawp's temper tantrums and Hagrid's continually being hurt - was a fear of discovery and thus guilt by association. She was the one who was openly fearly and even offended at the questioning of her parentage, after all.

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Why'd Grawp not like the Forest as well as he liked the Mountains, is it because it was the only home he'd ever really known?
I think that may well have been it, along with loneliness. I lot of Giant myths have them living at great heights, in the mountains, or even in the clouds. So the unfamiliar territory would be a problem for fearful giant. His behavior, the uprooting of the trees, seems to indicate that he wasn't at all sure what he was supposed to be doing while tied up in the Forest.

Quote:
Was it the meeting with "Harry & Hermy" that really helped settle him down and the potential to have "friends" other than his littlest big brother?
I actually think that Hagrid coaxed Grawpy with the promise of love and friends...and then he promptly hid him away in the Forest and Grawpy never saw anyone that was friendly to him. Then came the meeting with Harry and Hermy and I feel that's when we finally get to see that promise start to be fulfilled - at least on his end. When they come out into the Forest, Grawp seemed happy to see them and actually facilitated their release from the Centaurs and then he immediately wanted to know from them where Hagger was...he was lost and lonely IMO. Also he was bemused by the Centaurs and though he was reaching for the kids I don't think he realized how frightening he was being to them or that he might injure them. After all, we get to see him "carry" Hagrid and this may have been something they did on occasion so perhaps he thought he could manage it with mashing them into porridge. Anyhow, I always thought the Centaurs admired Harry for standing there afraid but unmoving from his protective stance while they backed into one another and drawed their bows. I think that admiration is the only reason they reacted as they did, firing at poor bemused Grawpy. I wonder if he ever caught any of those horsey-men?

Speaking of Centaurs, I think they felt the Forest belonged to them and that they were beyond long suffering patient with Hagrid over his "creatures" fascination. After all, he managed to populate the Forest with Thestrals, Acromantulas, Fluffy the giant 3-headed dog {I always secretly wondered if Grawpy fell in love with the ickle puppy! or whether he clouted it on it's three heads! }, Hippogryffs, and heaven only knows what else he'd hidden there since his school days! They'd put up with everything but IMO the destructive Giant was going one step to far and so while they were patient, they weren't going to be that way forever awaiting the taming of the brute, which is why they warned him off.

Being reunited with Hagrid, moved to a more familiar surrounding in the Mountains, and now having a regular visitation from his brother along with "small friends" Harry and Hermy IMO made all the dif in his character.
Quote:
Why'd the Ministry not act to deal with Grawp after they learned of his existence?
I think by this time they realized how very, very wrong Cornelius had been in not sending envoys out...they already knew some large giants were set loose in their country by the DEs and so if there was one ickle giant loyal to Dumbledore/Hagrid, then that's one less they'd have to fight and kill - and one more ally in their arsenal IMO.

Plus, they saw him acting in an unusually calm manner, dressed and tame-like, and even seeming to comfort his littlest big brother. I'm sure that's an emotional display that no wizard ever thought possible much less they'd live to see in their own lifetimes.
Quote:
Was he really able to discern difference between the attacking Centaurs and Firenze in the end?
I think he was always able to discern the difference. He actually made no acknowledgement, angry or otherwise, of Firenze at the funeral of Dumbledore or the Centaurs in the Forest who paid homage to Dumbledore with a display of arrows.

Perhaps his anger was laid to rest when he finally saw Hagrid again, told him what had happened, and Hagrid could tell him the horsey-men were protecting Grawpy's new friends from him - him not knowing his own strength and all.


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  #38  
Old January 27th, 2011, 9:23 pm
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

1. How do you think Grawp would react to someone harming Hagrid? What kinds of things do Hagrid and Grawp talk about when they have nice chats?
We see in DH what Grawp does. He ran to the battle crying "Hagger!" He loves his brother and will defend him.

2. What does Grawp contribute to the series story?
He helps to introduce the giants. He also represents Hagrid's family. Hagrid has a half-brother.

3. Is it at all suspicious that Grawp got "better" after Dumbledore spent a bit of time in the Forbidden Forest? Or did Grawp finally do what all the other giants used to tell him, grow up?
Dumbledore is awesome. No, really, I think Grawp needed help growing up and with the aid of his brother he's able to do that.


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  #39  
Old January 27th, 2011, 9:58 pm
AldeberanBlack  Male.gif AldeberanBlack is offline
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

Quote:
1. How do you think Grawp would react to someone harming Hagrid?
Violently.

Quote:
What kinds of things do Hagrid and Grawp talk about when they have nice chats?
Grawp's vocabulary seems limited to basic grunts, and Hagrid is virtually incomprehensible, so I doubt they talk about anything other than "me hungry, want food, bye"

Quote:
2. What does Grawp contribute to the series story?
Just muscle really in the final battle.

Quote:
3. Is it at all suspicious that Grawp got "better" after Dumbledore spent a bit of time in the Forbidden Forest? Or did Grawp finally do what all the other giants used to tell him, grow up?
I think he just reacted on instinct.

Quote:
4. Any new thoughts on Grawp post DH?
It confirms my belief that A- giants should be controlled and ruled by the wizarding community and B- under no circumstances should one of these things be permitted to breed with a magical human.


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Old January 27th, 2011, 11:40 pm
eliza101  Female.gif eliza101 is offline
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Re: Grawp: Character Analysis

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=AldeberanBlack;5691040]Violently.
How else would you expect someone to react to his brother being attacked.

Quote:
Grawp's vocabulary seems limited to basic grunts, and Hagrid is virtually incomprehensible, so I doubt they talk about anything other than "me hungry, want food, bye
"

I understand Hagrid perfectly well. He speaks English with a Northern accent Nothing hard about it.

Quote:
Just muscle really in the final battle.
Muscle comes in very handy in a battle.


Quote:
I think he just reacted on instinct.
Instinct drives us all to a certain degree.


Quote:
It confirms my belief that A- giants should be controlled and ruled by the wizarding community and B- under no circumstances should one of these things be permitted to breed with a magical human
.

I'm not a fan of controlling sentient beings myself. I think that we humans don't do that great a job with ourselves, what gives us the right to decide for others. Giants are sentient, they are entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of their happiness to quote the American Declaration of Independence. Yes, they can be dangerous to meddling wizards, so the meddling wizards should leave them alone.


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