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Eileen Prince: Character Analysis



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  #21  
Old August 25th, 2008, 9:19 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

We know she was at Hogwarts fifty years ago - the same time as Tom Riddle, Sirius tells us that Snape came to Hogwarts knowing more curses than most Seventh Years. If this is true, did he learn them from his mother? Is it possible she was part of Tom Riddle's group at Howarts.
I personally believe Snape learned them from his mother. I can't fathom where else he learned them from.
I do not think she was a part of Tom Riddle's group. I could imagine her being enamored by him but never actually even talking to him.

2. The Half Blood Prince's Potions Book was fifty years old, did she contribute anything to it? Was she a member of the Slug Club?
I do not believe she contributed to it. It was all Severus.

3. We know she married a muggle, Tobias Snape. Why would she choose to do this?
Who knows? Maybe it was love. Maybe just to anger her family.

4. When Harry is shown glimpses of Snape's past in Occlumency lessons we see him hiding while his parents fight. Was this a regular occurence? Why would she stay with him if they were not happy?
I don't know if it was a regular occurence or not.
Not everyone can leave an unhappy marriage.

5. Eileen sends her son to Hogwarts, despite her marriage to a Muggle. Do you think she encouraged him to become a Death Eater? Is it possible she enouraged his conversion to the Order?
I think Eileen didn't care what Snape did, really.

6. Do you think Eileen and Tobias were the original occupants of Spinner's End?
Yes

7. Do you think Eileen loved her son?
It doesn't matter to me.


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  #22  
Old August 25th, 2008, 11:09 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

1. We know she was at Hogwarts fifty years ago - the same time as Tom Riddle, Sirius tells us that Snape came to Hogwarts knowing more curses than most Seventh Years. If this is true, did he learn them from his mother? Is it possible she was part of Tom Riddle's group at Howarts.

This is an interesting question because it assumes that what Sirius Black said about Snape is true. I could debate this on two levels.

1.)To assume Eileen taught young Snape Dark Arts- assumes that Snape's first year showed him using Dark magic and we have no evidence of this other than Sirius Black's flippant comment. Black said a lot of things about Snape in passing as he perceived him through his own personal prejudices. These two were enemies, if we are to take Sirius's word about Snape and his "curses" than we must also take Snape's word about Black being a "mad killer" up until the end of POA.

2.) "More curses" does not necessarily mean "Dark" magic. Snape was gifted, no doubt, and we see that he was very inventive by his own hand. But the only "dark" curse we Really know about from his school days was Sectum-Sempra which was inscribed inside of the Princes Potions book - with no additions or corrections- compared to other entries that had several corrections (which could mean that it was copied and not invented by or brought to Hogwarts by Snape.)

There is no doubt or argument that Snape became absorbed by "Dark" arts in his later years at school but exactly when and why is debateable. I don't think we can assume anything about what Elieen did or did not teach young Snape, unfortunately.

I wish we knew more about her, but we simply don't.


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  #23  
Old August 25th, 2008, 11:26 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

Concerning Eileen Prince's marriage to the muggle Tobias Snape, it can be assumed that they fell in love. Often when people fall in love, they get married. We don't know whether or not Eileen Prince herself was against muggles/muggleborns. As far as the arguments go, as we learned from Snape's memories in Deathly Hallows, there were many arguements. This often happens in an abusive relationship in which one spouse feels like he or she needs to stick with his/her abusive partner for this or that reason. (In Oliver Twist Nancy feels that she needs to stick by the abusive Bill Sykes's side because "he needs me.") The abusive spouse often has had a troubled childhood and/or feels justified in what he or she is doing and is sometimes even blind to the fact that (s)he is abusive.
As far as Mrs. Prince loving her son, I don't see any reason why she wouldn't and there is no evidence that she didn't.


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  #24  
Old August 25th, 2008, 11:37 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Headless_Nick
As far as Mrs. Prince loving her son, I don't see any reason why she wouldn't and there is no evidence that she didn't.
I think that some people believe she didn't love him because he was dressed horribly mismatched and he seemed sad as a kid, which gives people the impression she didn't love/care about him.


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Old August 25th, 2008, 11:49 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by PerfectDystopia View Post
I think that some people believe she didn't love him because he was dressed horribly mismatched and he seemed sad as a kid, which gives people the impression she didn't love/care about him.
Hmm...I'd forgotten about that. But that is a good point. At the same time, Eileen Prince didn't seem the most organized person. Plus she's in an abusive relationship, always arguing with her husband. Anybody who has been in an arguement with somebody they love knows the miserable, sometimes even lost feeling that one gets during and after such arguements. Imagine life constantly being like that. Eileen Prince must have sat in a corner crying a lot.


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  #26  
Old August 26th, 2008, 12:28 am
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by PerfectDystopia View Post
I think that some people believe she didn't love him because he was dressed horribly mismatched and he seemed sad as a kid, which gives people the impression she didn't love/care about him.
That more of gave me the impression that he was poor, but as for the sad part, either they were poor, or maybe he was sad because of his family's arguements or the way his parents expressed their love was disagreeable to him.

1. We know she was at Hogwarts fifty years ago - the same time as Tom Riddle, Sirius tells us that Snape came to Hogwarts knowing more curses than most Seventh Years. If this is true, did he learn them from his mother? Is it possible she was part of Tom Riddle's group at Howarts.
he almost definitely learned them from his mother, or at least he may have read some of her old spellbooks. i don't really this Eileen would have taught her son spells before he could use a wand, and once he got one, i just don't think Severus would have learned that much in so little time. I'm not sure whether she was in Tom Riddle's group. she's kind of an odd case to me. Her family's kind of Slytherinish with the whole anti muggle thing, and i think she was pure blood or close to it, if Severus was a half blood, however, she marries a muggle, which makes her kind of like Andromeda, but it doesn't really seem like a happy marriage, and somehow her son is a pure blood supremacist...even as a half blood with his parents together. Of course little Sevvie could simply be a pure blood supremacist because he didn't like his father and blamed him for his life or something.

2. The Half Blood Prince's Potions Book was fifty years old, did she contribute anything to it? Was she a member of the Slug Club?
I think it was all Severus, and I don't know about the Slug Club. But I'm more inclined to think she wasn't, because whether Slughorn is really good at picking out students that will go onto doing great things or not, he would've helped her out, and maybe they would've had a better life.

3. We know she married a muggle, Tobias Snape. Why would she choose to do this?
Although their marriage seems unhappy afterward, I don't think that's how it started, unless she married for the sole reason of angering her parents,which i don't think seems likely. More likely, they fell in love and the whole wizard muggle differences may have torn them apart later on. Or maybe it was a case like Seamus's, where she didn't tell him she was a witch because she was afraid of what he would think and told him afterwards.

4. When Harry is shown glimpses of Snape's past in Occlumency lessons we see him hiding while his parents fight. Was this a regular occurence? Why would she stay with him if they were not happy?
I kind of think it seems kind of regular, but that's just a hunch. i'm not sure why she would stay with him though....but maybe it was only sometimes that they fought

5. Eileen sends her son to Hogwarts, despite her marriage to a Muggle. Do you think she encouraged him to become a Death Eater? Is it possible she enouraged his conversion to the Order?
Absolutely no idea

6. Do you think Eileen and Tobias were the original occupants of Spinner's End?
I don't think Snape would want to stay in a place with unhappy memories, and I think that like most teenagers, he would want to move out

7. Do you think Eileen loved her son?
I think she did, but it seems kind of likely that either she didn't have enough time to really care for him, or the way she showed her love for him was...i don't know, disagreeable to snape


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  #27  
Old August 26th, 2008, 12:50 am
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Headless_Nick View Post
Hmm...I'd forgotten about that. But that is a good point. At the same time, Eileen Prince didn't seem the most organized person. Plus she's in an abusive relationship, always arguing with her husband. Anybody who has been in an arguement with somebody they love knows the miserable, sometimes even lost feeling that one gets during and after such arguements. Imagine life constantly being like that. Eileen Prince must have sat in a corner crying a lot.
I wonder about this whole "abusive relationship" thing. We see the memory of Eileen cowering on the floor while Tobias was shouting at her and we see Severus telling Lily that his parents are always arguing. I think it is pretty obvious JK Rowling is trying to show that Severus' family wasn't happy, but it leaves me with a lot of questions. Was it a physically abusive relationship? Why was she cowering? What did they argue about?


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  #28  
Old August 26th, 2008, 12:52 am
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

Quote:
4. When Harry is shown glimpses of Snape's past in Occlumency lessons we see him hiding while his parents fight. Was this a regular occurence? Why would she stay with him if they were not happy?
I kind of think it seems kind of regular, but that's just a hunch. i'm not sure why she would stay with him though....but maybe it was only sometimes that they fought
In one of Snape's memories in DH, Lily asks him about his parents' arguements, and he replies that they're still fighting often. I'd look it up and give you the page number, but I can't find my DH book. Sorry.


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  #29  
Old August 26th, 2008, 1:17 am
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfectDystopia View Post
Was it a physically abusive relationship? Why was she cowering?
I think Eileen may have indeed been in an unhealthy relationship with Tobias. I think he may have emotionally abused her, and perhaps she was a bit frightened of him (despite her magic).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless_Nick View Post
In one of Snape's memories in DH, Lily asks him about his parents' arguements, and he replies that they're still fighting often. I'd look it up and give you the page number, but I can't find my DH book. Sorry.
Here's the scene:
DH, p667"How are things at your house?" Lily asked
A little crease appeared between his eyes.
"Fine," he said.
"They're not arguing anymore?"
"Oh yes, they're arguing," said Snape. He picked up a fistful of leaves and began tearing them apart, apparently unaware of what he was doing. "But it won't be that long and I'll be gone."
"Doesn't your dad like magic?"
"He doesn't like anything, much," said Snape.
I think this shows that Snape's dad wasn't a very nice person, and that he probably was the source of the unhealthiness in the relationship between he and Eileen. Snape doesn't seem to think too highly of him either.


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  #30  
Old August 26th, 2008, 4:56 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by RemusLupinFan View Post
I think Eileen may have indeed been in an unhealthy relationship with Tobias. I think he may have emotionally abused her, and perhaps she was a bit frightened of him (despite her magic).Here's the scene:
DH, p667"How are things at your house?" Lily asked
A little crease appeared between his eyes.
"Fine," he said.
"They're not arguing anymore?"
"Oh yes, they're arguing," said Snape. He picked up a fistful of leaves and began tearing them apart, apparently unaware of what he was doing. "But it won't be that long and I'll be gone."
"Doesn't your dad like magic?"
"He doesn't like anything, much," said Snape.
I think this shows that Snape's dad wasn't a very nice person, and that he probably was the source of the unhealthiness in the relationship between he and Eileen. Snape doesn't seem to think too highly of him either.
Thanks. When Severus says that his dad "doesn't like anything, much," it does seem as though he is starting arguments fairly regularly and/or is verbally abusive.


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  #31  
Old August 26th, 2008, 5:34 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis


1. We know she was at Hogwarts fifty years ago - the same time as Tom Riddle, Sirius tells us that Snape came to Hogwarts knowing more curses than most Seventh Years. If this is true, did he learn them from his mother? Is it possible she was part of Tom Riddle's group at Howarts.

I think Snape's mother must have taught her some curses because Snape lived 'in the shack by the river', a place that sounds pretty isolated and his dad was a Muggle. I don't know if she was in Riddle's group, it could be that she just taught him them for self-defense, knowing about the likely followers in Hogwarts/Slytherin. My dad taught me swear words for similiar causes =)

2. The Half Blood Prince's Potions Book was fifty years old, did she contribute anything to it? Was she a member of the Slug Club?
Didn't Eileen get a medal or a prize for her Potions ? That Hermione found in a newspaper in the library ? If so, then I think it's very likely she did contribute to the Potions Book (maybe she was the first Half Blood Prince ?) and that she was a member of the Slug Club.

3. We know she married a muggle, Tobias Snape. Why would she choose to do this?
Er... Love ? x) But also I would guess that Tobias discovered that Mrs Snape was a witch after the mariage.

4. When Harry is shown glimpses of Snape's past in Occlumency lessons we see him hiding while his parents fight. Was this a regular occurence? Why would she stay with him if they were not happy?
In DH, it says that Lily (and James and Sev') were born in 1960 and (please correct me if I'm wrong I wasn't alive then ) I think that divorces were much rarer and much less possible then. Today people are divorcing left right and centre.

5. Eileen sends her son to Hogwarts, despite her marriage to a Muggle. Do you think she encouraged him to become a Death Eater? Is it possible she enouraged his conversion to the Order?
Er ... I ... Um ... *No idea* Wasn't she dead ?!

6. Do you think Eileen and Tobias were the original occupants of Spinner's End?
I think it's possible that Eileen wanted a quite, isolated place for her magical son to grow up.

7. Do you think Eileen loved her son?
Yes. Although, Snape was always described as 'lonely' in the memories, so maybe he wasn't close to his mother or father.


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  #32  
Old August 26th, 2008, 5:55 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

It could've been just emotional abuse, but I kind of think the cowering maybe hinted at physical abuse. It doesn't have to, but I don't know, it's a scene we only see for about a second and JKR felt it was important to mention that she was not just upset, but cowering, as though she was seriously afraid Tobias might hurt her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoonyLuny View Post

2. The Half Blood Prince's Potions Book was fifty years old, did she contribute anything to it? Was she a member of the Slug Club?
Didn't Eileen get a medal or a prize for her Potions ? That Hermione found in a newspaper in the library ? If so, then I think it's very likely she did contribute to the Potions Book (maybe she was the first Half Blood Prince ?) and that she was a member of the Slug Club.

3. We know she married a muggle, Tobias Snape. Why would she choose to do this?
Er... Love ? x) But also I would guess that Tobias discovered that Mrs Snape was a witch after the mariage.

4. When Harry is shown glimpses of Snape's past in Occlumency lessons we see him hiding while his parents fight. Was this a regular occurence? Why would she stay with him if they were not happy?
In DH, it says that Lily (and James and Sev') were born in 1960 and (please correct me if I'm wrong I wasn't alive then ) I think that divorces were much rarer and much less possible then. Today people are divorcing left right and centre.

5. Eileen sends her son to Hogwarts, despite her marriage to a Muggle. Do you think she encouraged him to become a Death Eater? Is it possible she enouraged his conversion to the Order?
Er ... I ... Um ... *No idea* Wasn't she dead ?!
No, she didn't win a medal for potions (but I still think it's likely she was good at them)....All that was found was that she was captain of the gobstones team, and she married Tobias Snape. And we don't know when she died.


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  #33  
Old August 26th, 2008, 6:19 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

It's hard to look at any relationship from the outsider point of view and understand what is going on inside of it. Not just 'behind closed doors' but inside the minds and hearts of those involved. I know some very intelligent and very strong-minded women who were once involved in abusive relationships. It' s so hard to imagine how they got "in deep" with someone who turned out to be violent or controlling but it happens all the time.

For one, having a family, a society, or a community of support that encourages the woman to seek help is a key factor in escaping these situations. If a woman (or a man ) has no community or family to lean on -or feels she can't bother them- or if she was raised in a similar environment - there is no one there to say, 'get out' come over and you will be kept safe. Or even- 'you don't deserve this' 'you're not useless' 'you are valuable.'

If Eileen was a Witch married to a Muggle- and by all accounts not wealthy or well-to-do it was likely she felt like an outsider in both worlds. Muggles would not understand where she came from , and Full-bloods might not understand why she chose to live in a "muggle- dung heap" (as Bellatrix called it.)

However she came to be involved with Tobias, once she got married she may have cut off all means of support, not just emotionally but financially as well. This is a woman who could have felt very isolated and as she grew more and more depressed over the situatoin- became more self-absorbed in her problems and fears to that point that she couldn't step outside of herself to see that her son was not clean, dressed properly, or getting absorbed by darker forms of magic and anti- muggle tendencies.

I think the point made about Voldemort's mother loosing her magic is a metaphor for anyone who gets absorbed by this kind of situation. So many people- just give up- and it's tragic because they literally have no idea how much power they have or that they do have the right to speak up and get out.

When we see Eileen on the train station, the fact that she is not looking around, she is not even speaking and in fact we never hear her Voice- anywhere in Snape's memories Say VOLUMES to me about her situation. Because breaking that communication barrier and teaching the abused person to Speak UP and out against the abuse- is the hardest part of the process. Eillen seems to have been a silenced person.


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  #34  
Old August 28th, 2008, 9:30 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

1. We know she was at Hogwarts fifty years ago - the same time as Tom Riddle, Sirius tells us that Snape came to Hogwarts knowing more curses than most Seventh Years. If this is true, did he learn them from his mother? Is it possible she was part of Tom Riddle's group at Howarts.
I'm sure it is true. His mother must have taught the curses to him. It is very possible that she was part of the group. She might have even been close friends with Tom, as well.

2. The Half Blood Prince's Potions Book was fifty years old, did she contribute anything to it? Was she a member of the Slug Club?
Yes. Yes.

3. We know she married a muggle, Tobias Snape. Why would she choose to do this?
It's possible that they were young she thought she was in love and they married. I can't think of any other reason, but even the reason stated above doesn't seem like it was possible for her.

4. When Harry is shown glimpses of Snape's past in Occlumency lessons we see him hiding while his parents fight. Was this a regular occurence? Why would she stay with him if they were not happy?
I'm sure it was a daily occurence. Perhaps she stayed because she needed his support. Maybe if she left she wouldn't be able to support herself in the Muggle World or the Wizarding World.

5. Eileen sends her son to Hogwarts, despite her marriage to a Muggle. Do you think she encouraged him to become a Death Eater? Is it possible she enouraged his conversion to the Order?
I think she tried everything to get him to become a DE and join Voldemort. Yes.

6. Do you think Eileen and Tobias were the original occupants of Spinner's End?
No, I think Snape just choose some random place to stay. I don't think he was very intouch with his family.

7. Do you think Eileen loved her son?
I can't pick. I think it's most likely she didn't.


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Old September 14th, 2008, 9:09 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

1. We know she was at Hogwarts fifty years ago - the same time as Tom Riddle, Sirius tells us that Snape came to Hogwarts knowing more curses than most Seventh Years. If this is true, did he learn them from his mother? Is it possible she was part of Tom Riddle's group at Howarts?

Well, based on a chronology I worked out in a different thread, Eileen Prince bought her book circa 1948. Lord Voldemort had finished school in 1945, so it's not that they were in school together. I do think that his mother taught him these curses or at least that she had books or whatever that he read through and discovered. I don't think she was part of Riddle's group, but I do think she thought through his thoughts and his views, and likely found she agreed with some of them. But I don't think she could have agreed with them all, seeing as how she married a muggle.

2. The Half Blood Prince's Potions Book was fifty years old, did she contribute anything to it? Was she a member of the Slug Club?

Even if she did contribute, I don't think she was a part of the Slug Club, because Slughorn shows Snape no favouritism whatsoever, as he was prone to do when he knew someone's parents. As for the book, I think most of that was Snape himself, he showed talent at an early age.

3. We know she married a muggle, Tobias Snape. Why would she choose to do this?

Arguably she met him and fell in love with him. That's pretty much the only reason I can see. So that's also why I figure she wasn't so much into Voldemort's ideals as she had a big interest in the Dark Arts. Voldemort was beginning to win quite a lot of supporters, and I figure she wasn't with him because she was swept off her feet by Tobias Snape.

4. When Harry is shown glimpses of Snape's past in Occlumency lessons we see him hiding while his parents fight. Was this a regular occurence? Why would she stay with him if they were not happy?

Why would anybody? I don't think there exists a good answer to this question. Many men and women suffer in difficult relationships that are hard to escape. I imagine Snape always hid away, especially if things got physical. I think it was too much for him, as it would be for any child, to bear.

5. Eileen sends her son to Hogwarts, despite her marriage to a Muggle. Do you think she encouraged him to become a Death Eater? Is it possible she enouraged his conversion to the Order?

I think she didn't get him into the Order. But as for encouraging him to be a Death Eater, yes, maybe she was resentful enough of her central relationship that this is exactly what she did.

6. Do you think Eileen and Tobias were the original occupants of Spinner's End?

Yes, I do. There's a lot of social and historically accurate information granted there, considering the fall of the mills in Britain in the 1960s, and the fact that a single chimney was visible in the background of a time when Snape was with Lily. It makes sense that they were the original occupants of the house Snape himself took over in the neighbourhood of Spinner's End.

7. Do you think Eileen loved her son?

Yes. Yes, I do. I don't think she was so set against Snape in this way. He was definitely more open with girls than boys, taking Lily into account. He was bookish, not strong, and he disliked his father more than his mother- he references being glad that he could leave the man behind. He also gives out more about his father than his mother, it seems that he preferred her as opposed to hating her, and vice versa.


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Old July 5th, 2010, 10:33 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

1. We know she was at Hogwarts fifty years ago - the same time as Tom Riddle, Sirius tells us that Snape came to Hogwarts knowing more curses than most Seventh Years. If this is true, did he learn them from his mother? Is it possible she was part of Tom Riddle's group at Hogwarts?
Maybe. I doubt she was a follower of Tom Riddle, but she could have taught Sev some dark stuff all the same.
2. The Half Blood Prince's Potions Book was fifty years old, did she contribute anything to it? Was she a member of the Slug Club?
Nah.
3. We know she married a muggle, Tobias Snape. Why would she choose to do this?
Because she loved him?
4. When Harry is shown glimpses of Snape's past in Occlumency lessons we see him hiding while his parents fight. Was this a regular occurence? Why would she stay with him if they were not happy?
They were probably poor, I think her family life could've been tough, so maybe she had no where else to go.
5. Eileen sends her son to Hogwarts, despite her marriage to a Muggle. Do you think she encouraged him to become a Death Eater? Is it possible she enouraged his conversion to the Order?
No. Neither. I don't think she was very involved with his life or influenced his decisions at all; if she did, we would have known.
6. Do you think Eileen and Tobias were the original occupants of Spinner's End?
I doubt it matters.
7. Do you think Eileen loved her son?
No.


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  #37  
Old July 5th, 2010, 10:49 pm
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

1. We know she was at Hogwarts fifty years ago - the same time as Tom Riddle, Sirius tells us that Snape came to Hogwarts knowing more curses than most Seventh Years. If this is true, did he learn them from his mother? Is it possible she was part of Tom Riddle's group at Howarts.
Somehow i doubt she really was a member of RIddle's group. Its possible she knew him of course, what with sharing classes and a House with him. If she were one of the first Death Eaters, she would not have married a muggle. That was a big no-no. I think Severus probably looked up curses with the idea in mind that if his father did something very nasty to his mum, he would curse him. My theory.

2. The Half Blood Prince's Potions Book was fifty years old, did she contribute anything to it? Was she a member of the Slug Club?
We dont see any different writing in the book other than Snape's. I dont think she was a member of the Slug Club but we dont know which people were in it at that time.

3. We know she married a muggle, Tobias Snape. Why would she choose to do this?
Good question. Maybe she wasnt very popular among her wizarding ilk. Its possible she didnt get a lot of romantic interaction with other wizards. Eileen herself is a pure blood though. Perhaps her relationship with Tobias Snape mirrors that of Severus's relationship with the Death Eaters. Its possible she went with Tobias because she wanted to be accepted.

4. When Harry is shown glimpses of Snape's past in Occlumency lessons we see him hiding while his parents fight. Was this a regular occurence? Why would she stay with him if they were not happy?
It seems to be a regular occurance seeing how Lily remarks on it in TPT. Maybe Eileen stayed with him because she was afraid of being alone with a son to care for. They didnt have much money and its possible her parents either disowned her or werent around anymore to support her.

5. Eileen sends her son to Hogwarts, despite her marriage to a Muggle. Do you think she encouraged him to become a Death Eater? Is it possible she enouraged his conversion to the Order?
She encouraged him about being a Slytherin. He wants to be in that House even before hes sorted. I dont think she had much to do with Snape becoming a Death Eater, but i think his father's actions had something to do with his anti-muggle outlook as a youth. Snape's decision to be a part of the Order later on was his own.

6. Do you think Eileen and Tobias were the original occupants of Spinner's End?
Im not sure what you mean by this.

7. Do you think Eileen loved her son?
Yes i do. But i do think she was a bit resentful of him because he was a part of Tobias as well.


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  #38  
Old July 6th, 2010, 3:36 am
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

IMO, I still picture Lucius Malfoy with spending time with Snape. I know, I might be wrong, but I think it might be the reason for all the arguing between Eileen and Tobias. Especially if Eileen saw the fine mansion that the Malfoys lived in and she went back to her home. Somehow, I don't think Eileen pushed Snape into joing the DE. I think he found out about them from the Malfoys.
I think Tobias and Eileen were the original occupants of Spinner's End.
Why did Tobias and Eileen stay married? it seemed like the logical thing to do. No matter how bad a marriage, the parents stayed together.
I am wondering why people think the HBP book was Eileen's book. Hermione did think the writing looked liked a girl's writing, but, maybe Lily wrote in the book along with Snape.
Did Eileen love her son? Yes, I believed she did. In fact, when I read that JKR said Snape loved someone, I thought it was a love Snape had for his mother. Nothing wrong with that.
Snape just wanted to do something to improve his mother's life, maybe to take her away from his dad.


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Old October 20th, 2010, 11:02 am
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

1. We know she was at Hogwarts fifty years ago - the same time as Tom Riddle, Sirius tells us that Snape came to Hogwarts knowing more curses than most Seventh Years. If this is true, did he learn them from his mother? Is it possible she was part of Tom Riddle's group at Howarts.

First, IMO, Sirius was exaggerating. It would have been extremely difficult for Severus to have learned and practiced curses at such a young age as he would have had the trace on him as an underaged wizard.

Since there is never any mention at all of Eileen Prince during Voldemort and Severus' conversations, if she was a member of his group, he either forgot about her (meaning she must not have made much of an impression), or, he didn't know that she was Severus' mother.

She was the Captain of the Gobstones team, but, we are not told much about the game or the "popularity" of it or its members. I don't think that Eileen was a very prominent member of her class, as we hear nothing about her other than that...including her being accomplished in the Dark Arts or being a part of Voldemort's group. Dumbledore would have known this, and, IMO, it would at least have been discussed between him and Severus at some time during the series.

2. The Half Blood Prince's Potions Book was fifty years old, did she contribute anything to it? Was she a member of the Slug Club?

The reason Severus had a 50-year-old book was probably the same reasons the Weasley's handed down their books from family member to family member -- money. I doubt that she was a member of the Slug Club since, again, we do not hear anything mentioned about her by Slughorn. He talks about all of the other students he "collected," so, it would seem if she were an outstanding enough student to make his Club, he would have mentioned something about her.

3. We know she married a muggle, Tobias Snape. Why would she choose to do this?

Love. Love is blind, and, for whatever reason, I believe she fell in love with him. Possibly he thought she could use her magic to conjur things for them and he wouldn't have to work. I see Tobias as a mean and abusive person from the start. Unfortunately, people usually get into abusive relationships unknowingly, and remained in them because the still "love" their spouse. Having spent 10 years working in a program offering support and services to victims of both physical and emotional abuse, I learned (with much frustration, at times) that leaving an abusive partner is not as easy as someone who's never been in that type of relationship would think.

We're really not told enough to ascertain how and why the Snapes got together. I would say that her family might not have been too happy with it, considering the state that the couple was living in. Either that, or the Prince family was extremely poor as well. Or, maybe Eileens family was all dead. We really don't know enough, unfortunately, to make that judegment, but, my guess is that they were a pure-blood family, and, poor or not, would have not taken kindly to her marrying a Muggle.

4. When Harry is shown glimpses of Snape's past in Occlumency lessons we see him hiding while his parents fight. Was this a regular occurence? Why would she stay with him if they were not happy?

Victims of domestic abuse don't want the relationship to end, they want the violence to end, and are always hopeful that it will.

There is a cycle to domestic violence: the incidence of violence, the self-recrimination of the abuser, the promises that they will change and it will never happen again, the "honeymoon," when everything is going so "well," and during which there is usually a building of tension that is again released through an act of physical and or emotional abuse.

Relationship violence (between married couples, domestic partners, dating couples) is about power and control. The abuser is strictly out to control the other party. Abusers are very good at selecting their "victims" and of isolating them from any outside support system, incuding friends, family, co-workers, etc. They usually prey on people who have low self-esteem and convince them that they are the only ones who would have them, or, that if they leave they will kill them and other family members -- or, kill themselves and it will be the victim's fault for making them do it. Abusers are usually, but, not always, from abusive homes themselves, and use their status as the prominent individual in the relationship.

The abused partner isn't just a stupid person who enjoys getting kicked around. Many are professional people with degrees, people in successful jobs, people one wouldn't even guess. Many times the abuse goes on without anyone from the outside ever knwoing about it. It is kept a secret because none of the family members want anyone outside to know about it.

My guess is that Eileen loved Tobias, and, at first thought things would change. But, without outside support -- without a reality check -- she might have just given up and accepted the situation and tried to make the best of it.

5. Eileen sends her son to Hogwarts, despite her marriage to a Muggle. Do you think she encouraged him to become a Death Eater? Is it possible she enouraged his conversion to the Order?

I think she sang the praises of Slytherin House, her House at Hogwarts, to Severus as he was growing up. I think that's why he was so anxious to be in Slytherin. But, by the time he actually left for Hogwarts, I don't think she was in a state to encourage him one way or the other. I think she was glad to have him out of the house and away from his father for the time he was in school, and just spent most of her life trying to survive.

6. Do you think Eileen and Tobias were the original occupants of Spinner's End?

I doubt it. Spinner's End in general, and, their home, in particular, seemed to be a part of a factory-based residential section and was probably there a long time before they moved there.

7. Do you think Eileen loved her son?

Yes. I think he was probably the only bright spot in her life for a while, which would have made Tobias resent and dislike him for giving her anything to love or cling to. (That's why abusers will often kill their partners pets, to eliminate them having anything to shower affection or attention on).

I have often thought that the nickname, "Half-Blood Prince" may have been an endearment his mother used toward him when he was small, a term of endearment just between the two of them, and that is why he used it as his "alias" in his Potions book.


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Old October 20th, 2010, 10:57 pm
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Eileen Prince: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinervasCat View Post
I have often thought that the nickname, "Half-Blood Prince" may have been an endearment his mother used toward him when he was small, a term of endearment just between the two of them, and that is why he used it as his "alias" in his Potions book.
I never thought of it that way, but it's a very sweet idea, and it may well be the way it was.

I don't know if you ever read VampiricDuck's story that she posted as an entry to the Holiday Calendar a couple of years ago? It was a very sweet story of Snape getting a Christmas present from Lily that made him, for a few moments, forget the screaming and fighting between his parents. It doesn't really have a bearing on Eileen Prince's character analysis, but this made me think of it. Check it out, it's probably in the archives here somewhere.


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