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Why Voldemort Would Have Spared Lily: Revisited



 
 
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  #441  
Old July 3rd, 2007, 1:09 am
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Re: Why Voldemort Would Have Spared Lily: Revisited

Jo has assured us that James and Lily were Harry's parents. I'm sorry I can't find the quote.


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  #442  
Old July 3rd, 2007, 1:49 am
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Re: Why Voldemort Would Have Spared Lily: Revisited

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox143 View Post
I'm fairly convinced Petunia is Harry's mother, whom she had to give away as Vernon would never accept the fact that she had given birth to a magical son.
Shortest pregnancy on record then, since Dudley is Petunia's son and is about a month older than Harry. Petunia herself confirms their age difference in HBP. [Plus, you have to wonder how a Muggle "thrice defied" Voldemort. ]


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  #443  
Old July 3rd, 2007, 1:52 am
Dor  Male.gif Dor is offline
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Re: Why Voldemort Would Have Spared Lily: Revisited

Nostalgia, I ran a search and found your post because I am having thoughts that are similar to yours.

I think you are absolutely right. I believe Voldemort made an unbreakable vow to Snape that he would not kill Lilly. It is, of course, not easy to demand anything from Voldemort. Snape is probably the only Death Eater who is powerful enough in his own right, and proud enough, to dare (and succeed) in doing so. And, as you say, he could use his knowledge of the prophecy as leverage.

If indeed this is the case, then why did Voldemort murder Lilly anyway? Well - the answer may be that perhaps he didn't. Not on purpose anyway.

Throughout the series, we assume that Voldemort murdered Lilly because she would not move aside to let him kill Harry. But I couldn't find anywhere in the text a statement by Voldemort that confirms this notion. In GoF he says to the Death Eaters "His mother died in the attempt to save him". In SS/PS he tells Harry "I killed your father first, and he put up a courageous fight ... but your mother needn't have died ... she was trying to protect you". Voldemort says he killed James, but he doesn't say that he killed Lilly - he only says that she "died".

So how did Lilly die?

One possibility is that she killed herself and in so doing managed to place a piece of her soul inside Harry. A twist, if you will, on the usual method for producing Horcruxes. Voldemort AK may then have rebounded because of his unbreakable vow to Snape. Lilly's soul would give Harry continued protection in later encounters with Voldemort.

What I imagine may have happened (just guessing of course) is that Voldemort, laughing, pried Lilly and Harry apart using magic. Lilly was screaming. Then, as he turned to curse Harry, Lilly died, perhaps by throwing herself at a barrier Voldemort put between her and Harry (I know, I know ... pure guesswork). Harry then became a Horcrux for a piece of Lilly's soul.

The question that remains (or at least one of them) is: how was the "connection" between Harry and Voldemort established? Well. I don't know.









Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostalgia View Post
Something just occurred to me, and it has to do with the old idea that he spared her because Snape loved asked him to.

Perhaps Snape, after learning of the prophecy (the knowledge of which was too great of an asset to refuse under any circumstances) he told Voldemort not to lay a wand on Lily Potter (because she and James were already targets, being in the Order). He may have told Voldemort that he'll only spill the prophecy if Voldemort doesn't kill Lily. And I think they may have made an Unbreakable Vow.

Voldemort may have been too confident with his Horcruxes and may have thought the properties of the vow (one who breaks it will die) would not apply with him. This might explain why, when the curse backfired, his body vanished. We know that Avada Kedavra does not destroy the body, so maybe this was the result of the breaking of the vow.

It would make the idea that Voldemort's "demise" at Godric's Hollow was caused by love gain a double meaning. Lily's sacrifice for her son made the curse backfire in the sense of a shield, but beyond that, it also destroyed his body because of Snape's love.


  #444  
Old July 3rd, 2007, 3:11 am
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Re: Why Voldemort Would Have Spared Lily Revisited

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Originally Posted by Hinoema View Post
I'll have to agree here. I would guess that somewhere he must feel a terrible btterness and resentment that his mother apparently didn't think him important enough to live for, cursing him to life in the orphanage, without love.

My specualtion on the matter:

Imagine Voldemort trying to 'prove' his belief that all mothers are just as bad as his own was by offering Lily a chance to stand aside and save her own life while he kills her son. I think he imagined that she would do just this, based on his own experience. I don't htink that if she had, he would have spared her, either. I think he would have raged at her for being as low as his own mother was, and killed her, feeling bitterly justified in removing an inferior being- another loveless mother- from the world.

Imagine his rage and twisted, mad betrayal when Lily refused his offer...

but it doesn't work with him laughing his high cruel laugh as/after killing her.

what could be is that Snape regrets telling LV because he killing James and Lily, so after LV kills JAmes, snape tells him to stop, because if he kills lily, something will happen.

LV doesn't wanna take chances, so he tells her to stand aside but she doesn't so he kils her. and when nothing happens to him, he laughs!


  #445  
Old July 3rd, 2007, 3:56 am
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Re: Why Voldemort Would Have Spared Lily: Revisited

Quote:
Originally posted by DOR
One possibility is that she killed herself and in so doing managed to place a piece of her soul inside Harry.
So why did she show up in GoF in the graveyard scene with Prior Incantatem....did she wrestle Voldemorts wand away?
I dont think that if she killed herself that she would have given Harry any protection, and she wouldnt have given her life so he could live...suicide is a selfish act. i dont believe there is alot of glory in that, and I dont know if Jo would like to portray that.


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Last edited by CoeurDeLyon; July 3rd, 2007 at 4:01 am.
  #446  
Old July 3rd, 2007, 5:32 am
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Re: Why Voldemort Would Have Spared Lily: Revisited

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeurDeLyon View Post
So why did she show up in GoF in the graveyard scene with Prior Incantatem....did she wrestle Voldemorts wand away?
I dont think that if she killed herself that she would have given Harry any protection, and she wouldnt have given her life so he could live...suicide is a selfish act. i dont believe there is alot of glory in that, and I dont know if Jo would like to portray that.

Good point! No, she didn't wrestle the wand away, but she may have placed herself in the way of the AK - so the wand killed her without Voldemort's intending her to die. And her suicide wasn't selfish if she fully intended to give Harry her protection by dying.


  #447  
Old July 3rd, 2007, 6:17 am
Phil_Stone  Undisclosed.gif Phil_Stone is offline
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Re: Why Voldemort Would Have Spared Lily: Revisited

Rosalee- It was Slytherin's locket originally, and I would expect its contents are a key to him. We know that he was once friends with the other founders, but they fell out to the point Slytherin would kill students with his monster. Would yo want to start a school with someone like that?

It seems more likely that something happened to split them up. If JKR has include the trio's romantic adventures to show that the course of true love is never smooth, and we are supposed to see that that has been true in the past as well, for James and Lily (and Snape?) perhaps we should realize that this has always been the case at Hogwarts, even among the founders.

The Sorting Hat keeps urging a unity it says was lost when Slytherin departed. Why is it doing that unless the unity is valuable, and attainable? While it seems a stretch, I think that there is a mystery about Slytherin and the founders which will be important to the resolution. Dumbledore's mysterious past and ties to the school may be relevant. Perhaps Voldemort ultimately cannot be the heir to Slytherin, because he cannot love.


  #448  
Old July 3rd, 2007, 8:39 am
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Re: Why Voldemort Would Have Spared Lily: Revisited

Just a quick reminder: Please stay away from Snape/Lily in any form. You may discuss this topic in one of the triumvirate threads but nowhere else for the time being. Thanks.


  #449  
Old July 5th, 2007, 6:51 am
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Re: Why Voldemort Would Have Spared Lily: Revisited

Hi CoeurDeLyon and others,

I admit if Petunia really was Harry's mother, I don't know how all th eplot ends would be tied up to reveal this to be the case, like you say the Lily-James relationship obviously being a huge complicating factor. JKR has said though that there will be things in DH which you couldn't really guess at so I think it is a but naive of fans to base their theories purely on established canon, she is a fantasy writer after all so its highly likely she will pull a few rabbits out her sleeve towards the end.

As for there being a month age difference in Harry and Dudley, this age gap could well have been concocted by Petunia if Harry and Dudley were twins, there births seem rather too close, almost too close to be coincidental.

Come July 21st I may well be eating my words but I think its very revealing that JKR become most afraid she was going to give vital plot details away ("I'm being shockingly indiscreet!") while describing Aunt Petunia, NOT Harry, not Dumbledore, not Voldemort but Petunia. This has to be foretelling of the magnitude of Petunia's relevance to the plot.

Regards,
Knoxy


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