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Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?



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  #21  
Old August 31st, 2011, 2:11 am
SBNB  Female.gif SBNB is offline
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

That theory never occurred to me, but it makes sense. I got the impression from Firenze's classes in Hogwarts that the predictions were somehow fuzzy, and it never seemed like the centaurs knew exactly when something was going to happen.


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  #22  
Old August 31st, 2011, 6:08 pm
Chikibun  Female.gif Chikibun is offline
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

I'd actually thought on this a while back when I was re-reading the series.

To me, it seems, that by reading the movements of the stars and plants, that centaurs can foretell might possibly happen in the future.

I can recall that in the first novel, the centaurs would comment " Mars is bright tonight, unusually bright". And I also believe that it was said by Firenze about the centaurs, that it could take years for them to interpret correctly what they were seeing - and even then, they may be wrong.

So, while I do believe that they may interpreted the movements to mean that Harry would die in that forest by Voldemort's hand, though, they seem to be wooly on the details.

And I do remember, something that struck me while re-reading, is that before Harry met Voldemort in the forest, a centaur commented on Mars being unusually bright but he'd also said something like " It is always the innocent as the first victims, so it was in the past and so it is now "

From what I remember, I personally believe, that the centaurs believed that Harry's death would mark the beginning of the the second war, and it may have. Harry's death could have marked Voldemort's rise to power.

But it could also be said that it was Cedric Diggory's death that marked Voldemort's return, or the old man death or Bertha Jorkins who were also innocents who were killed.

So, it could be said that the centaurs believed that Mars being bright foretold the soon-to-be start of a coming war. And by that particular centaurs comment (I can't remember names) they may have believed that the first victim would be an innocent.

So I think that the centaurs knew that there was a coming war; and as a war was coming, that the first victim would be an innocent. They also seemed to have believed it possible that Harry would 'die' at Voldemort's hand in the future, I don't believe they knew it would be in that particular forest, only that it -may- happen. Which may be why they did not intervene or participate in the war until they believed Harry to be dead.

It may have been interpreted from the planets, stars movements that Harry Potter, an innocent, would die by Voldemort's hand and it would mark the beginning of the war. When, really, it marked the end of the war and it was Cedric Diggory, the old man and Bertha Jorkins who were the first innocents killed as by-products of Voldemorts return.

So it seems they were correct, in a way, but a bit off in the details



Last edited by Chikibun; August 31st, 2011 at 6:12 pm.
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  #23  
Old August 31st, 2011, 10:08 pm
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Depends on how you look at it. Honestly, it seems like a lot of people seemed to predict it. Even Trelawney seemed to accidently predict it ... I-SENSE-A-TRAGIC-DEATH thing seemed to be right, which I suspect she'll be gloating about.


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  #24  
Old August 31st, 2011, 11:56 pm
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

I do believe Bane predicted Harry's death, but one thing I wonder is if he could have predicted Harry coming back. I have no idea what he saw, but I wonder if stars simply didn't reveal all the facts to Bane, or if (at the time he read the stars) Harry needed more time and development to be ready for the sort of sacrifice he needed to return.


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  #25  
Old September 1st, 2011, 5:21 am
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
This is an interesting theory, but I think that if centaurs are able to read the movements of the planets and what is to come, they would have known when this event was going to happen.
Just my two cents.
I think that based on what Firenze has said when he comes to teach at the school, they would be able to see that Harry would be killed by Voldemort, or maybe more accurately that evil would triumph over good. To some extent those things did happen. I don't think they can see specific events and what exact day or time those events are to happen.


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  #26  
Old September 4th, 2011, 2:33 am
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

This is such an interesting theory. The centaurs always get me thinking about native american style wisdom... As i try to apply and compare aspects of the magical world to that of our own. That mysterious power, ignorant to wizards, probably did fortell many events and i think the centaurs would only act if anything predicted would affect them directly. They seem to be a proud, private species....


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  #27  
Old September 4th, 2011, 5:18 am
Sergio182  Male.gif Sergio182 is offline
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

They probably knew something unexpectedly would soon happen, but they didn't know exactly when; because as you know in the books it clearly states that divination isn't an always clear science but a very blurry and approximate study.


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  #28  
Old September 4th, 2011, 5:39 am
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Ohh I love this theory! And Chikibun's elaboration is great as well!

I remember finishing the end of SS when I was 9 and thinking, "Ohhh Mars was bright because Harry was about to confront Voldemort!" As I got older, I realized that was probably too insignificant of an occurrence to be in the planets and stars, so the start of the second war is what occurred to me as well.

The centaurs are totally my favorite magical creatures. They have so much going on.


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  #29  
Old September 4th, 2011, 7:50 am
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

All the signs (centaurs and Trelawny's predictions) pointed to Harry's death and they were all accurate because he did die. He just came back, something they could not foresee because it was unprecedented and exceptional. They could not see beyond the pall of death to foresee Harry's resurrection. I think it is rooted in the philosophy that is quite commonly referred to as a Christian concept in the modern world (and most likely comes back to Rowing's beliefs) as to the great hope that no mortal can truly perceive, of Jesus (or a savior in general) conquering death.


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  #30  
Old September 19th, 2011, 3:18 pm
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

So what we've come up so far with is that they knew something bad was going to happen some time in the nearish future and it might have to do with Harry dying, but definitely to do with voldy coming back.


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  #31  
Old September 20th, 2011, 8:52 pm
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Yes, I think Chikibun has it pretty much right on. I think that he didn't want them setting themselves against the heavens by trying to stop events that were already foretold, even if their details were a little fuzzy. I think the fuzziness was clear enough, though, that they felt that in the middle of all this dark and dreary stuff, Voldemort was going to somehow succeed over Harry--likely in death, but it could have even meant something like the graveyard scene, where Voldy overpowered him and got what he wanted from Harry. But as a more staid and haughty member of the group, who's sure he has a better grasp of the signs that the average guy, he might think it's "clear" that Harry will lose, and think they shouldn't rail against that already foretold event.


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  #32  
Old September 29th, 2011, 2:33 am
Aileth  Female.gif Aileth is offline
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Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_moldywort View Post
I thought it was pretty clear that Bane was predicting Harry being killed off by Voldemort and thus did not want Firenze to interfere with it.
Technically, Harry was indeed killed by Voldemort, so they predicted it correctly, but being an imprecise branch of knowledge (I don't think star movement can be called magic, unless you're saying that they move by magic) they might not be able to tell exactly when the tiny little movements and actions are to take place. After all, they think in term of centuries, perhaps not even in decades.

I'm talking as an astrology student and believe you me, it's more difficult to see the meaning when you know how the stars are actually moving than when you don't.


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