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Discussion: The Horcruxes



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  #61  
Old July 24th, 2007, 3:37 pm
Weasleytwin's Avatar
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

1. What did you think of Umbridge having Slytherin's locket?
That was an unexpected twist. I honestly expected Aberforth to have it, since we saw that rather conspicuous scene in HBP between him and Mundungus. I thought it was great that Umbridge ended up with it - very fitting.

I really wonder how much the locket affected her, since she was wearing it all the time. I know that she was VERY nasty in OotP, but I don't remember her specifically targeting Muggle-borns; only half-breeds. Perhaps the locket had something to do with her extreme viewpoints?

2. What did you think of the destruction methods for each Horcrux? Was the sword of Godric Gryffindor overused for that purpose?
Did I miss something? Wasn't the sword only used to destroy the locket? And Nagini? The ring, too - but we didn't actually see that in this book. I didn't think it was overused. I'm sure they could have found other ways to destroy horcruxes (as they did, with the basilisk fangs and the fiend fire), but why bother thinking of other ways when they knew that the sword would work? Neville pulling it out of the hat was brilliant!

On a related note, I found it VERY interesting that the Gryffindor sword was not used to destroy the Hufflepuff Cup or the Ravenclaw tiara - but it WAS used to destroy the Slytherin locket. The sword was used to destroy the three horcruxes that had specific links to Slytherin: the locket, which belonged to him; the ring, which was an heirloom of his descendants, the Peverell family; and the snake, which was Slytherin's personal emblem. VERY INTERESTING that Gryffindor symbolically triumphed over Slytherin, but not the other two houses.

3. Were you surprised at how many different people destroyed Horcruxes?
No, not at all. I don't think I had any specific expectations about who would physically destroy each horcrux, but I didn't expect Harry to do it all himself.

4. Were the Horcruxes in places you expected them to be?
Pretty much, with the exception of Umbridge having the locket. I definately didn't see that coming.

5. Did it surprise you how easy it was for Hermione to get the book about Horcruxes?
No, but I do wonder why she didn't think of it during HBP, when they spent months trying to figure out what horcruxes were.


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  #62  
Old July 24th, 2007, 5:02 pm
Kadaj010  Undisclosed.gif Kadaj010 is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

Yep, it was all predictable. Umbridge having one of the horcruxes was a pleasant surprise. Wish she was possesed though, It might have made her nicer...

The destruction of some of the horcruxes was plain silly. Fiendfyre I tell you. Both the diadem and the goblet should have had scenes like what happened when Ron tried destroying the locket. It was very meaningful. In fact, that was actually good character development.


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  #63  
Old July 24th, 2007, 5:08 pm
Scato  Female.gif Scato is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

1. What did you think of Umbridge having Slytherin's locket?

I was quite surprised, but thought it was a nice twist and a great chance for the trio to get back at her.

2. What did you think of the destruction methods for each Horcrux? Was the sword of Godric Gryffindor overused for that purpose?

I don't think the sword was overused (only destroyed three out of seven). I think it would've been far too confusing if they'd had to find a different way of destruction for every single one.

I must say, though, that I'm a bit annoyed at how Ron and Hermione got into the CoS. Not only was Ron able to remember and repeat words in a foreign language some five years after he heard them, it was also a language he shouldn't be able to speak. We were always told how special parseltongue was and that parselmouths were very rare. It also seemed that parseltongue was an inherited trait rather than an acquired skill (with the acception of Harry due to his connection to Voldy). And now we are casually informed, as if it was no big deal, that anyone can learn parseltongue simply by hearing it? I'm really not too impressed by this.

3. Were you surprised at how many different people destroyed Horcruxes?

I was a bit surprised when Harry told Ron to destroy the locket, but after that it seemed natural that others would get a go, too.

4. Were the Horcruxes in places you expected them to be?

I thought the locket would be with Kreacher, but didn't expect it to end up with Umbridge. I expected Nangini to stay with Voldemort and that the Ravenclaw Horcrux would be in Hogwards. Apart from that I had no clue.

I don't think that the RoR was that bad a hiding place, though. Sure, it was quite stupid of Voldemort to not expect anyone to find the room. But he left the ring in a deserted house, hidden only by the assumption that no-one knew he was related to the Gaunts. In comparisson to this, the RoR (which *is* difficult to find and stuffed with centuries worth of rubbish) makes a brilliant hiding place. How likely was it that someone would stumble upon and pay attention to an old tiara in this gigantic pile of garbage? How likely was it that of all people it would be Harry Potter that finds it? And if Harry hadn't accidentally found it before, they would never have gotten it on time during the battle. Even if they had thought of searching the RoR, without Harry already knowing where the tiara was they could have spent months, if not years, searching the endless piles of rubbish. It was basically mere dumb luck that made it so easy for the trio to find it and not just Voldy's brainless arrogance.

5. Did it surprise you how easy it was for Hermione to get the book about Horcruxes?

No. It was typical for both her and Dumbledore.


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  #64  
Old July 24th, 2007, 5:25 pm
Lord_V  Male.gif Lord_V is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

I don't understand something.
On page 90, UK version, Hermione explains about what she read in the Horcrux book:
Quote:
The soul inside it depends on its container, its enchanted body, for survival. It can't exist without it.
How can that Voldemorts soul transfered into Harry when his own AK-curse killed him?


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  #65  
Old July 24th, 2007, 5:26 pm
dbuske  Undisclosed.gif dbuske is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

I felt the finding and destruction of the horcruxes was all too easy. Voldemort didn't find out about Harry knowing about the Horcruxes until it was to late.
I would have liked to see Harry battle to find the Horcruxes and figure out how to get them through Voldemorts defenses.


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  #66  
Old July 24th, 2007, 5:47 pm
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

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Originally Posted by Lord_V View Post
How can that Voldemorts soul transfered into Harry when his own AK-curse killed him?
This is really confusing, but Voldemort's AK curse didn't kill him. Normally, an AK curse would kill someone, but Voldemort was not killed because he already had horcruxes. If someone has at least one horcrux, the part of their soul that is in their body cannot be destroyed, though the body will be. Because he had at least one horcrux, he did not die.

However, since killing rips the soul apart (and Voldemort's soul was already in pretty bad shape), his soul tore when he cast the AK curse, intending to kill Harry. At this point, we now have two disembodied parts of Voldemort's soul, since the AK curse killed the body. One part (the part that became Vapormort) glided away and hid in Albania. The other part (the part that Voldemort had planned to put into an object to make a horcrux) went into Harry instead. I'm not really sure why that part went into Harry - and why it didn't just go flying off, like the Vapormort portion did.

Your question was why these two pieces of soul were not destroyed, despite the evidence in the Dark Arts book that says that the soul cannot exist without the object. Well, if it is not in an object, it can't be destroyed, right? And it couldn't go on to the afterlife because there were still other parts of it that were in horcruxes. That's why creating horcruxes is such a problem! I think that the 'tied to an object' quote only refers to pieces of the soul that have been turned into horcruxes. The final piece of Voldemort's soul (Vapormort) existed on its own without being tied to a body or an object.


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  #67  
Old July 24th, 2007, 5:58 pm
ewill936  Female.gif ewill936 is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

1. I think that Umbridge having the locket can explain for why she was so evil in the book. The adventure in the ministry of magic to get it was really good!

2. I thought that the destruction method was good, except I didn't like the fact the ron opened the chamber of secrets with hermione and destroyed a horcrux. Rowling made it seem unimportant.

3. I like how so many people destroyed the Horcruxes. Everyone had an important role, and showed the strength of character.

4. The bellatrix lestrange vault was unexpected, but I thought that the room of requirement was a stupid place to hide the diadem. Couldn't voldemort see that there were so many other objects hidden in there from past people that had known about it!?


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  #68  
Old July 24th, 2007, 6:09 pm
srgrounds  Undisclosed.gif srgrounds is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

After the detailed account of DD and harry going into the cave in HBP, i was really bummed to see how easy and fast they were to find and get rid of.


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  #69  
Old July 24th, 2007, 7:02 pm
wizgurl  Female.gif wizgurl is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

I think Umbridge took the locket because she probably doesn't have a totally pureblood family tree. I think she was a little scared of that fact, so she took the locket.

I liked how the Horcruxes were destroyed. It was great to read about all the different characters playing a part. I love how Neville, instead of getting revenge on Bellatrix, got to kill Nagini. It was much more fitting in with the books many messages.

I didn't think finding the Horcruxes were that easy. They actual act of destroying them was easy, but finding the means and things to destroy them were not.

As I said, Voldermort wasn't very smart. He was so mad with power that he did not stop to think and reason everything out. So, when he hid the Horcruxes, he didn't think about all this being very traceable. He didn't think of anyone "doing their homework" and researching his history. I was thrilled to see that I theory that I've had for a while proved to be right. I thought that Harry was a Horcrux ever since I heard about them. He was the 7th one--the unintentional one. I thought Voldermort knew Harry was one or would at least figure it out, so I was surprised when he did not. All and all, Voldermort wasn't that smart after all!


Hermoine is always brilliant. I've had people say that they cannot stand Hermoine's know-it-all character, but she is likeable because of her immense compassion. Anyway, when they were talking about her getting books and stuffing them in her bag, I assumed she would find any of the answers that needed to be researched.


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  #70  
Old July 24th, 2007, 7:06 pm
jkof7  Male.gif jkof7 is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

So if harry was a horcrux, does that mean there were 8 pieces of voldemorts soul.

1. the ring
2. the locket
3. the cup
4. the diadem
5. the diary
6. the snake
7. the piece in harry
8. and the piece in voldemort


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  #71  
Old July 24th, 2007, 7:15 pm
tupshall90  Female.gif tupshall90 is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

1. What did you think of Umbridge having Slytherin's locket?
I thought it dangerous and I found it stupid that Umbridge didn't understand that it wasn't just an ordinary locket.

2. What did you think of the destruction methods for each Horcrux? Was the sword of Godric Gryffindor overused for that purpose?
No I thought it was used brilliantly, showing them to be brave throughout the journey. I thought that it was frustrating to be reading half way through the book and not having destroyed one horcrux.

3. Were you surprised at how many different people destroyed Horcruxes?
I'm surprised that Harry didn't destroy a horcrux himself.

4. Were the Horcruxes in places you expected them to be?
I knew one would be in Hogwarts but couldn't believe that Voldemort was stupid enough to think that no one had discovered the room of requirement. How did he think Draco operated his plane the year before.

5. Did it surprise you how easy it was for Hermione to get the book about Horcruxes?
No not as much as how fast they destroyed them.


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  #72  
Old July 24th, 2007, 7:16 pm
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

1. What did you think of Umbridge having Slytherin's locket?

Gut reaction- creepy. I would have to reread to recall how she got it, but I remember reading and thinking it was a little odd and a tiny bit awful that she had it in her possession. Not to mention the fact that she was around at all!

2. What did you think of the destruction methods for each Horcrux? Was the sword of Godric Gryffindor overused for that purpose?

I thought that it was fitting- moreso because the sword was meant to be used by someone brave and noble of heart.

3. Were you surprised at how many different people destroyed Horcruxes?

Again, I thought it was fitting. Harry tried to go it alone and he couldn't- his friends were with him. I was pleased when he had Ron destroy the locket and also when Ron told him Hermione had destroyed the cup. In addition to being Harry's friends, Ron and Hermione were affected by what was going on as well, so it seemed natural that they take a hand in destroying the Horcruxes.

4. Were the Horcruxes in places you expected them to be?

Not really. I need to reread because I'm not sure I understand why Bellatrix had the cup.

5. Did it surprise you how easy it was for Hermione to get the book about Horcruxes?

Unh? I have to reread that bit. Overall, though, by the middle of the book I wouldn't be surprised at how Hermione got anything! Ballsy, that one.

I preordered the book, but I didn't understand that Amazon delivers them all on the day (they messaged me that I wouldn't get it until the 23rd to the 25th) so unfortunately I was practicing "defensive reading"- ie trying to finish before it all got spoiled!


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  #73  
Old July 24th, 2007, 7:35 pm
xx2pure5  Female.gif xx2pure5 is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

1. What did you think of Umbridge having Slytherin's locket?
I think that Umbridge just fancy those unique accessories. As you know, she is always over the top, a cloud of proud all over her... Perhaps she doesn't bother to know what that is..
2. What did you think of the destruction methods for each Horcrux? Was the sword of Godric Gryffindor overused for that purpose?
Well I haven't thought of this before, destorying them by a sword is just the easiest way to finish it off...
3. Were you surprised at how many different people destroyed Horcruxes?
Blimey yes... Well another moral here maybe ;p that people have to unite to do things properly and easily
4. Were the Horcruxes in places you expected them to be?
Not really, some places, at Hogwarts, yes, but never thought of inside the room of requirement... And Harry's memory got to be extremely powerful to remember where the diadem is, as he has been to so many places, and after so many months...
5. Did it surprise you how easy it was for Hermione to get the book about Horcruxes?
yes a bit of.. if she can just summon those books from the headmaster room, and she should even be able to summon other stuff easily, like hmmm other important stuff from some of the rooms at hogwarts


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  #74  
Old July 24th, 2007, 7:37 pm
tigger101023  Female.gif tigger101023 is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

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Originally Posted by Alex90 View Post
I'm slightly confused. Voldemort's soul was split into 7 parts right? and 7 parts of his soul has been destroyed from the moment when Neville killed Nagini, so how was Voldemort still alive? With no soul left shouldn't he have been like people who have suffered the dementor's kiss?

Or did I misunderstand, and there were actually 8 parts of Voldemort's soul, 7 horcruxes and one part still in Voldemort?
There are 8 parts. He intended for there to be 7, as it's such a magical number, but the bit of soul that went to Harry was entirely unexpected.

I still want to know what his intentions were for the 6th Horcrux. I always thought that there would be an unused relic in the rubble of Godric's Hollow that would tell the trio what house the fifth Horcrux came from and that Nagini was an emergency contingency plan. But then Dumbledore said that the only known Gryffindor relic was the sword - he couldn't have planned to use that, could he?

Umbridge having the locket was unexpected and very fitting. What a blankety-blank!

I liked how many people destroyed Horcruxes and I liked that Harry wasn't having to do it all alone.

I'm not that surprised that Bella was protecting a Horcrux. I thought Nagini was one and as such, I was shocked that Harry was one. I'm not surpised that the diadem was at Hogwarts. As careful as Voldemort should have been, in some ways it's completely fitting that he put it just in the RoR - it's not like anyone was going to know what he had done to it because he was way too smart for them. He should have been worried that a Ravenclaw would recognize it, but such is his arrogance, IMO. I'm sure he knew the Grey Lady would cover his tracks in her shame. Although I was interested in how much he liked and respected Hogwarts, considering his incapacity for respecting and liking much of anything.


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  #75  
Old July 24th, 2007, 7:42 pm
ehemisgod  Female.gif ehemisgod is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

1. What did you think of Umbridge having Slytherin's locket? not entirely sure if i'm honest, maybe a bit too convinient. Kind of wish that she had bumped into Voldy while wearing it around her neck, that might have been funny!!!

2. What did you think of the destruction methods for each Horcrux? Was the sword of Godric Gryffindor overused for that purpose? Hmm... liked the sword of Gryffindor idea... and the basilisk, thought it was kind of amusing that Neville ended up being the one to avenge Snape by killing Nagini... about Crabbe's fire thought, it just seems wierd that someone who has been described frequently as stupid is able to conjure something as powerfull as that fire

3. Were you surprised at how many different people destroyed Horcruxes? yes. wish Snape had got to destroy at least one...

4. Were the Horcruxes in places you expected them to be? well nagini was always going to be with Voldermorte, guessed one would be in Gringotts (that cover art), and one was always going to be in Hogwarts...

5. Did it surprise you how easy it was for Hermione to get the book about Horcruxes?
yeh, and if Dumbledore didnt want either Snape or Voldemorte to know that he knew about the Horcruxes then why did he leave a load of books about them in the office that he knew Snape would inherit because he wanted him to become headmaster?


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  #76  
Old July 24th, 2007, 7:48 pm
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

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Originally Posted by jkof7 View Post
So if harry was a horcrux, does that mean there were 8 pieces of voldemorts soul.
Right. I don't have the book with me, but I remember Dumbledore saying the words, 'You were the accidental seventh horcrux,' or something like that. I had to read that part twice to make sure.

Here's how I see it. Voldemort had 5 horcruxes before he went to kill Harry. He tore his soul by using the AK curse, since he intended to create a horcrux that night. One part flew away to Albania - the other part just didn't know what to do, so it joined Harry. 13 years later, Voldemort, believing that he still only has 5 horcruxes, kills Frank Bryce and turns Nagini into a horcrux. He then re-bodies himself and starts doing evil stuff, not realizing that he made an accidental horcrux. Since his soul was already so mutiltated BEFORE he tried to kill Harry the first time, he didn't notice it ripping again. (or perhaps he did...'pain - oh, the pain!') So yes, he did have 8 pieces of soul, but he never meant Harry to be a horcrux.


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  #77  
Old July 24th, 2007, 8:14 pm
Serena_Hallow  Female.gif Serena_Hallow is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

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Originally Posted by Weasleytwin View Post
However, since killing rips the soul apart (and Voldemort's soul was already in pretty bad shape), his soul tore when he cast the AK curse, intending to kill Harry. At this point, we now have two disembodied parts of Voldemort's soul, since the AK curse killed the body. One part (the part that became Vapormort) glided away and hid in Albania. The other part (the part that Voldemort had planned to put into an object to make a horcrux) went into Harry instead. I'm not really sure why that part went into Harry - and why it didn't just go flying off, like the Vapormort portion did.
I agree, this is really confusing, and to me it's one of the parts of the book where you have to stretch your belief to buy into it. I thought that the Horcrux-making process involved serious dark magic and an extremely complicated process, that it wasn't just the act of killing which split your soul. It is still hard for me to believe that a soul can become "unstable" and just split whenever a murder happens, but the way I've reasoned it out is that the rebounding curse, coupled with the ancient magic of Lily's sacrifice, hit Voldemort too strongly for him to be left whole. So, that part of his soul was forced into Harry as a bad side effect of the combining spells, forming the connection between Harry and Voldemort. It might be a stretch, or a shaky explanation, but magical accidents have been known to happen and Harry and Voldemort have always been, in some way or another, exceptions to the rule. At least that's the way I see it.


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  #78  
Old July 24th, 2007, 8:34 pm
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

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Originally Posted by Serena_Hallow View Post
It is still hard for me to believe that a soul can become "unstable" and just split whenever a murder happens, but the way I've reasoned it out is that the rebounding curse, coupled with the ancient magic of Lily's sacrifice, hit Voldemort too strongly for him to be left whole.
That's sort of the way I understand it.

Remember that Voldemort did intend to make a horcrux that night - he just didn't plan on Harry being the horcrux. According to Dumbledore in HBP, Voldemort intended to use Harry's murder to create his final horcrux. If we believe this, then we must accept that Voldemort intended for his soul to split, so that he could put the other part of it into a horcrux. I think that's why his soul split, but since he lost his body, he wasn't around to perform the spell necessary to put the other piece of soul into whatever object he had chosen, so it picked Harry.

On another note, what object do you think Voldemort intended to be the last Horcrux? He had already made the diary, the ring, the locket, the cup, and the tiara into horcruxes. He probably didn't have Nagini at the time - so what exactly was the final horcrux supposed to be? Did he find a Gryffindor object?


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  #79  
Old July 24th, 2007, 8:36 pm
tenacioustonks  Undisclosed.gif tenacioustonks is offline
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Re: Discussion: The Horcruxes

I would’ve never expected Umbridge to have the locket. I don’t think anyone saw that coming. It was pretty gratifying to see it ripped from her neck, though.
I don’t think that the sword was overused. I didn’t like the Fiendfyre, though. I thought it was, I don’t know, a bit too easy.
I liked how the Horcruxes were destroyed by different people. Dumbledore stressed that Harry not tell anyone other than Ron and Hermione about the Horcruxes and the plan. I think it was a nice twist on Dumbledore’s “secrets and lies.”
I was right about the diadem. I knew that the crown in the Room of Requirement was a Horcrux. I knew there was something fishy about that crown and that it was a Horcrux!
However, how could Voldemort have thought that he was the only one who knew about the Room of Requirement? For him to think that, even though the room was filled with thousands of other objects and possessions, would mean that he didn’t know the full purpose and secret of the room. For such a powerful wizard, Voldemort was pretty stupid.
I wasn’t surprised by how Hermione got the books on Horcruxes. He knew, Dumbledore knew.


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  #80  
Old July 24th, 2007, 8:58 pm
sapere_aude  Male.gif sapere_aude is offline
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About his Horcruxes.

Was anyone else upset that all Voldemort had to do was read in a book how to make horcruxes when it's always been implied that he had ventured into the darkest magic secrets ever.


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