Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

[Gwendolen]

Originally Posted by CyclonePrefect8

Hmmmm. Well as it was Dumbledore who told the Potters to use th Fidelius Charm im guessing he had an idea and the fact they lived in Godric's Hallow. Also when Voldemort attacked the charm broke i think since everyone knew where it was in the 7th book. But the news spread fast of the attack because people were partying the day and night after.

Dumbledore would have known where the Potters' house was, but the Fidelius charm would stop anyone knowing they were hiding there.

I suppose Peter could have told Dumbledore that Voldemort had murdered the Potters and been killed himself, or perhaps another death eater was there as a witness.

[CyclonePrefect8]

Originally Posted by Gwendolen

Dumbledore would have known where the Potters' house was, but the Fidelius charm would stop anyone knowing they were hiding there.

I suppose Peter could have told Dumbledore that Voldemort had murdered the Potters and been killed himself, or perhaps another death eater was there as a witness.

Maybe Dumbledore performed the spell, and knew it broke when Voldemort attacked. And Hagrid doesnt deliver Harry to the Dursleys until the night after which doesn't make a ton of sense since he's on a flying magical bike and the wizarding community knows about it in the morning...

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by CyclonePrefect8

Maybe Dumbledore performed the spell, and knew it broke when Voldemort attacked. And Hagrid doesnt deliver Harry to the Dursleys until the night after which doesn't make a ton of sense since he's on a flying magical bike and the wizarding community knows about it in the morning...

No, if Dumbledore had cast the Fidelius Charm, he'd have known Peter was the secret keeper.

[CyclonePrefect8]

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

No, if Dumbledore had cast the Fidelius Charm, he'd have known Peter was the secret keeper.

Ok, but Flitwick said once the Secret Keeper was chosen than no one could find the location. So it is possible Dumbledore knew where they lived before. Also Hagrid said in the first book that Muggles were starting to come to the place, so the Fidelius Charm broke after the attack. So maybe there was a nearby fellow wizard that noticed it burning and alerted Dumbledore? There is a large gap between the attack and Harry being left on Dursley's doorstep.

[hpfan101]

Originally Posted by willfitz

Well, yes, I believe he does know that he is saying 'open,' by virtue of Harry saying "I'm going to tell it to open," but I'm afraid that wasn't my point.

What I meant was if Ron was saying the Parseltongue phrase for open which he had learned from Harry, would Harry hear that as English, or as a hiss? Judging by the fact that the door recognizes it as true Parseltongue, I'd say Harry would just hear English.

I don't agree that Harry hears it as English. I will try to explain my reasoning: if you are bi-langual, you have no need to translate words from either language. You just understand them. Take, for example, when you hear words in English. You don't have to stop and think about the meaning of them, you just naturally "get" them. It's the same for a second language. However, when you are studying a second language, you DO have to translate at the beginning (ex: okay, he said "Hola," I know that means, "Hi," so he just said "hi."). Harry is past that point. He understands Parseltongue and doesn't need to translate it. So he doesn't understand it in English. He understands the hisses and just naturally accepts them as words. In the Gaunt's house, I think once Dumbledore points out that they are speaking Parseltongue, Harry started to pay attention and realized that he was hearing hisses, not English. It is hard to explain unless you are bi-langual, but having studied a second language (and translated for many years before getting to be bilangual), there is a difference (and I may be explaining it poorly).

Originally Posted by CyclonePrefect8

Ok, but Flitwick said once the Secret Keeper was chosen than no one could find the location. So it is possible Dumbledore knew where they lived before. Also Hagrid said in the first book that Muggles were starting to come to the place, so the Fidelius Charm broke after the attack. So maybe there was a nearby fellow wizard that noticed it burning and alerted Dumbledore? There is a large gap between the attack and Harry being left on Dursley's doorstep.

I agree that Dumbledore would have known where the Potters lived beforehand. That would allow Dumbledore to send Hagrid to the correct place. The Fidelius Charm protects others from being able to see those protected even if they are looking through the window where the protected are staying. It does not protect people from even SEEING the actual place.

Ergo, no one should have been able to find the Potters EVEN THOUGH Dumbledore knew where their actual house was located...unless the Fidelius Charm was inactivated. I think I remember reading somwhere that the Fidelius Charm broke because of the rebounded curse that Voldemort cast. Otherwise, Hagrid would have been able to see the house burning, but he would not have been able to find the people inside of it. So I am assuming that once the curse blasted the house and broke the Fidelius Charm, Dumbledore became aware and then people were able to see the occupants of the house, not just the house itself.

[CyclonePrefect8]

Originally Posted by hpfan101

I agree that Dumbledore would have known where the Potters lived beforehand. That would allow Dumbledore to send Hagrid to the correct place. The Fidelius Charm protects others from being able to see those protected even if they are looking through the window where the protected are staying. It does not protect people from even SEEING the actual place.

Ergo, no one should have been able to find the Potters EVEN THOUGH Dumbledore knew where their actual house was located...unless the Fidelius Charm was inactivated. I think I remember reading somwhere that the Fidelius Charm broke because of the rebounded curse that Voldemort cast. Otherwise, Hagrid would have been able to see the house burning, but he would not have been able to find the people inside of it. So I am assuming that once the curse blasted the house and broke the Fidelius Charm, Dumbledore became aware and then people were able to see the occupants of the house, not just the house itself.

I totally agree with you. The only thing I'm confused on is how come it took so long for Harry to be delivered to the Dursley's? Hagrid showed up when the Muggles were starting to gather so that would probably make it early morning when he got Harry. Did he wait for nightfall to deliver? If so what was he doing, just flying around? I might have missed something in the books about this...

[nevilleismyhero]

Originally Posted by Gwendolen

How did Dumbledore know? Dumbledore thought Sirius was secret-keeper. If Peter had told him where the Potters were hiding Dumbledore would have known Sirius wasn't the secret keeper. Before the attack, the only people who knew where the Potters were and who the secret keeper was were Lily, James, Peter and Sirius (and Voldemort, once Peter told him).

Who would have told Dumbledore that the Potters had been attacked?

could Snape have told him.... after voldy killed lily, did snape run to dumbledore and tell him because he was angry that dumbledore couldnt protect them (in his eyes) and wouldnt have voldy told snape or maybe snape heard peter pettegrew tell voldy etc... and snape told dumbledore? and dumbledore told hagrid? and that lapse in time is the time it took for the message to be passed along.... idk just a thought..

[CyclonePrefect8]

Originally Posted by nevilleismyhero

could Snape have told him.... after voldy killed lily, did snape run to dumbledore and tell him because he was angry that dumbledore couldnt protect them (in his eyes) and wouldnt have voldy told snape or maybe snape heard peter pettegrew tell voldy etc... and snape told dumbledore? and dumbledore told hagrid? and that lapse in time is the time it took for the message to be passed along.... idk just a thought..

Good theory but if Snape hear Peter tell Voldemort than he would have probably warned Dumbledore (did he i cant remember?) and i dont think dumbledore would let it happen... But if Snape did get told, that would make the scene in the movie true than with snape holding lilys head if he heard about it later. The only thing that makes me think no about that is that a house on fire might catch muggles attention pretty quick even at night.

[nevilleismyhero]

Originally Posted by CyclonePrefect8

Good theory but if Snape hear Peter tell Voldemort than he would have probably warned Dumbledore (did he i cant remember?) and i dont think dumbledore would let it happen... But if Snape did get told, that would make the scene in the movie true than with snape holding lilys head if he heard about it later. The only thing that makes me think no about that is that a house on fire might catch muggles attention pretty quick even at night.

hmm...true...maybe there was such a lapse in time because they were modifying so many muggle memories? hmm haha, im just trying to make something fit

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by CyclonePrefect8

Good theory but if Snape hear Peter tell Voldemort than he would have probably warned Dumbledore (did he i cant remember?) and i dont think dumbledore would let it happen... But if Snape did get told, that would make the scene in the movie true than with snape holding lilys head if he heard about it later. The only thing that makes me think no about that is that a house on fire might catch muggles attention pretty quick even at night.

Snape couldn't have overheard Peter tell Voldemort the secret; remember in PoA he still believes Sirius was the SK.

He had warned Dumbledore; that's why they needed an SK in the first place.

We don't know how Snape knew Lily had been killed, but in his memories he's in Dumbledore's office in severe distress because Lily has died. 'I thought . . . you were going . . . to keep her . . . safe . . .'

Originally Posted by CyclonePrefect8

The only thing I'm confused on is how come it took so long for Harry to be delivered to the Dursley's? Hagrid showed up when the Muggles were starting to gather so that would probably make it early morning when he got Harry. Did he wait for nightfall to deliver? If so what was he doing, just flying around? I might have missed something in the books about this...

No, there's nothing in the books to explain it! That's why it's a plot hole!

I vaguely remember something about JKR being unaware there was a missing 24 hours until someone pointed it out to her. She decided to leave the story as written.

[CyclonePrefect8]

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

Snape couldn't have overheard Peter tell Voldemort the secret; remember in PoA he thinks Sirius was the SK.

He had warned Dumbledore; that's why they needed an SK in the first place.

We don't know how Snape knew Lily had been killed, but in his memories he's in Dumbledore's office in severe distress because Lily has died. 'I thought . . . you were going . . . to keep her . . . safe . . .'



No, there's nothing in the books to explain it! That's why it's a plot hole!

I vaguely remember something about JKR being unaware there was a missing 24 hours until someone pointed it out to her. She decided to leave the story as written.

Ah ok this explains a lot than. I should've remembered that about Snape, but oh well. Im going to stick with Hagrid flew around during the day to avoid muggle detection and waited for nightfall, which to me makes the most sense. Thank you.

[GryffindorZach]

In the Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone there is a troll in the dungeons. When Quirrel announces this Dumbledore tells the prefects to take the students into their dorms. However the Slytherin dorms are in the dungeon. Would that not put the Slytherins at risk. Is this a plot hole.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by GryffindorZach

In the Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone there is a troll in the dungeons. When Quirrel announces this Dumbledore tells the prefects to take the students into their dorms. However the Slytherin dorms are in the dungeon. Would that not put the Slytherins at risk. Is this a plot hole.

All the teachers immediately went to the dungeons. We see Harry notice Snape going up instead of down, asking Ron why Snape isn't in the dungeons with the rest of the teachers. One would assume that the teachers would have checked the dormitory first and stopped the Slytherin prefect from going inside with the students if there were any sign of a troll.

[hpfan101]

Originally Posted by CyclonePrefect8

Ah ok this explains a lot than. I should've remembered that about Snape, but oh well. Im going to stick with Hagrid flew around during the day to avoid muggle detection and waited for nightfall, which to me makes the most sense. Thank you.

Yes, I love this image of Hagrid flying the motorbike! There have been a lot of theories on the "lost day;" however, perhaps it was just an oversight by Jo in the early days of writing. I would love it if there were some sort of story involving what happened during this time.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by hpfan101

Yes, I love this image of Hagrid flying the motorbike! There have been a lot of theories on the "lost day;" however, perhaps it was just an oversight by Jo in the early days of writing. I would love it if there were some sort of story involving what happened during this time.

Wouldn't it be great if some of that information was on Pottermore?

[CyclonePrefect8]

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

Wouldn't it be great if some of that information was on Pottermore?

That would be awesome. Isn't she doing a question answering thing on the site? idk, but itd be nice if she filled all the holes fans found thoughout the years.

[jackdagreenskin]

I remember finding a few in the first book, cant remember them all, will post as they come back to me.

But in the philosophers stone, for christmas, the dursleys send harry some socks (or 50p taped to a letter) - one is book, one is movie, cant remember which way around. How do they manage to send this, because hogwarts is unplottable so wouldnt have a postal address, and they wouldnt have used an owl...

[leah49]

There is a difference in being bilingual and in being able to speak and understand Parseltongue. Harry never had to learn Parseltongue. We have to learn the language we speak, even our native language. The only way Harry or any Parselmouth can speak Parseltongue is by looking at a snake, talking to a snake, or in the case of the Chamber of Secrets, a snake's image. It's not like knowing both French and Spanish. You know you're speaking a different language. You hear the words in that different language. In Parseltongue you don't hear yourself hissing or the snake hissing. You hear it in your native language.

Harry knew he was a Parselmouth only when others told him he was speaking strangely to the snake in Dueling Club. If you learn a second language like Spanish you're going to know you're not speaking your native language. You'll hear the difference. You'll know when you say "yes" and when you say "si."

[CyclonePrefect8]

Originally Posted by jackdagreenskin

I remember finding a few in the first book, cant remember them all, will post as they come back to me.

But in the philosophers stone, for christmas, the dursleys send harry some socks (or 50p taped to a letter) - one is book, one is movie, cant remember which way around. How do they manage to send this, because hogwarts is unplottable so wouldnt have a postal address, and they wouldnt have used an owl...

Hedwig could've flown to them like he did for Harry in the 3rd or Hogwarts might send an annual letter to the families of the kids to make sure they get something at least.

[SiriusWhite]

Originally Posted by jackdagreenskin

I remember finding a few in the first book, cant remember them all, will post as they come back to me.

But in the philosophers stone, for christmas, the dursleys send harry some socks (or 50p taped to a letter) - one is book, one is movie, cant remember which way around. How do they manage to send this, because hogwarts is unplottable so wouldnt have a postal address, and they wouldnt have used an owl...

I don't know when it was said, but I remembered reading that the mugglepostsystem is infiltrated.