Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone

Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old August 5th, 2011, 9:35 am
Jordan2814  Undisclosed.gif Jordan2814 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3499 days
Posts: 1
Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Hello, this will mark my first post and I hope it is a good one.

I was re-reading the series and was at chapter fifteen pg 257 of TSS and read this quote by Bane, "Remember Firenze, we are sworn not to set ourselves against the heavens. Have we not read what is to come in the movements of the planets?" and continues with, "For the best! What is that to do with us? Centaurs are concerned with what has been foretold!..." This is all after Firenze rescued Harry from Quirrel in the Forbidden Forest. My question is; was Bane angry at Firenze because he stopped Harry from being killed by Voldemort when he had read the future and saw that it would happen, but he just didnt know Harry and Voldemort would meet again?


Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old August 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Lonnie  Undisclosed.gif Lonnie is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3502 days
Posts: 46
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

This is an interesting theory, but I think that if centaurs are able to read the movements of the planets and what is to come, they would have known when this event was going to happen.
Just my two cents.


__________________
'Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.'
-Matsuo Basho
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old August 5th, 2011, 5:43 pm
gelowo93's Avatar
gelowo93  Female.gif gelowo93 is offline
Fourth Year
 
Joined: 4035 days
Location: England
Age: 27
Posts: 660
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

I've caught that when rereading PS before and I think you're right. Even though the centaurs have a reputation as being better than humans at predicting the future, the books also suggest that predicting the future is very "wooly" so it wouldn't surprise me if the centaurs knew what was going to happen but didn't know when. And really, when they are reading the planets to find out when things are going to happen, seven years isn't a long time to get mixed up between dates when they could be seeing things that happen 100+ years in the future


__________________
Slytherpuff

Images taken from http://dft.ba/-2M6r
Do not anger the kitty!Avengers.

Learning to Live AgainOne shots
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old August 5th, 2011, 5:48 pm
CyclonePrefect8  Male.gif CyclonePrefect8 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 3515 days
Posts: 114
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
This is an interesting theory, but I think that if centaurs are able to read the movements of the planets and what is to come, they would have known when this event was going to happen.
Just my two cents.
I do not think that knowing what will happen needs to be paired with when it will. The Hall of Prophecys has all those prophecys that have yet to be fufilled, but does that mean they are wrong. Banes anger with Firenze makes sense since Firenze went against their laws. I agree with Gelowo since it is an uncertain branch of magic.


__________________
"Perhaps just one more, Master Harry, for luck?" - Kreacher with pan in DH, Page 221
Wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure.
"Never forget Wizard Baruffio, who said 's' instead of 'f' and found himself on the floor with a buffalo on his chest" - Flitwick in SS page 171
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 5th, 2011, 5:51 pm
Lonnie  Undisclosed.gif Lonnie is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3502 days
Posts: 46
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CyclonePrefect8 View Post
I do not think that knowing what will happen needs to be paired with when it will. The Hall of Prophecys has all those prophecys that have yet to be fufilled, but does that mean they are wrong. Banes anger with Firenze makes sense since Firenze went against their laws. I agree with Gelowo since it is an uncertain branch of magic.
This is true. I just would've thought that if you were reading the movements in the stars, things would have matched up at a certain time, making it more apparent than with human's prophesies when things would happen.

Still, it's not something to rule out entirely.


__________________
'Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.'
-Matsuo Basho
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 5th, 2011, 6:47 pm
eep  Female.gif eep is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 6090 days
Location: oklahoma
Age: 40
Posts: 8
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

I have noticed this as well and I agree that the centaurs did have some idea that Harry would be killed by Voldemort. I don't think that they knew the time, just that it was destined. Firenze saving Harry can be interpreted to validate the centaurs knowing Harry had to die. Firenze acted against the beliefs of his people to save Harry, he didn't want to stand by and see a foal get hurt, but he knew it would cause a lot of problems. Firenze must have known Harry was in some serious danger which prompted him to act. I'm just thinking they all had an idea that Voldemort would take out Harry sooner or later. So I agree, good observation Jordan.


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 5th, 2011, 6:48 pm
lord_moldywort  Male.gif lord_moldywort is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 3713 days
Age: 23
Posts: 215
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

I thought it was pretty clear that Bane was predicting Harry being killed off by Voldemort and thus did not want Firenze to interfere with it.


__________________
Please read my fanfiction: Albus Potter and the Resurrectiion Stone at: Pleas visit and post some feedback here: http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=127414

YewSpirit36 is waiting for Pottermore
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 5th, 2011, 7:15 pm
FurryDice's Avatar
FurryDice  Female.gif FurryDice is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 4815 days
Location: Ireland
Age: 36
Posts: 2,591
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
This is an interesting theory, but I think that if centaurs are able to read the movements of the planets and what is to come, they would have known when this event was going to happen.
Just my two cents.
I don't think a short space of time like six years really means a lot to centaurs; Firenze told Lavender and Parvati that trivial human concerns were nothing to do with true Divination. I think, similarly, they would consider those few short years something trivial.

I do think the centaurs somehow knew that Voldemort would kill Harry in the Forest. Firenze says that the Forest is unsafe, especially for Harry. Bane's anger at Firenze for interfering with what was foretold also seems to suggest that Harry's death in the Forest was something they had foreseen.

Plus, the centaurs join in the Battle of Hogwarts only after Harry's "death". Perhaps up until then, they didn't want to interfere with what was foretold? Perhaps they knew that the battle would be won after Harry died, or perhaps the end of the battle was unclear to them, after that point?


__________________

Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632
"Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous
"Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 6th, 2011, 1:06 am
featherfish81  Undisclosed.gif featherfish81 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4972 days
Posts: 280
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

I never read that the centaurs specifically knew that Voldemort would kill Harry, because their prophesies don't seem to be that specific. They thought that they were simply in a lull between wars, but didn't really know when or where the second one would start again. I think Bane was mostly upset that Firenze let Harry ride him, which was beneath centaurs.


Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 6th, 2011, 1:40 am
Dark_Disciple  Male.gif Dark_Disciple is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 3512 days
Location: Slytherin Dungeon
Age: 37
Posts: 77
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

It is an interesting though. I believe the event taking place and a generalization of the type of event was known (like "a horrible event will take place in the coming years") but the actual specific event was completely unknown.

From what it appears, Wizards try to tell the future very specifically which appears to be a super rare gift and (while I don't get why they go into those trances) not something that they can voluntarily control. The prophecy comes! and that is it (involuntarily).


__________________

Banner by: Dark_Disciple
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 6th, 2011, 3:36 am
RemusLupinFan's Avatar
RemusLupinFan  Female.gif RemusLupinFan is offline
I want to believe
 
Joined: 6126 days
Location: The office in the basement
Posts: 5,897
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FurryDice View Post
I do think the centaurs somehow knew that Voldemort would kill Harry in the Forest. Firenze says that the Forest is unsafe, especially for Harry. Bane's anger at Firenze for interfering with what was foretold also seems to suggest that Harry's death in the Forest was something they had foreseen.
I tend to agree that the Centaurs did foresee Harry's death as well. But what confuses me a little is that if Harry's death seven years from that time was foreseen, surely interfering at that moment wouldn't have changed the fact that Harry was going to be killed seven years from then (unless they didn't know when it was going to happen). Or does Bane's anger mean that Harry's death was predicted to happen at that moment by the hands of Quirrellmort? Or a third option - was Bane simply upset with Firenze on the principle that any kind of interference would change the future?


__________________

X-Files is the property of Ten Thirteen Productions, 20th Century Fox
WolfCloak30 Pottermore
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 6th, 2011, 4:05 am
CyclonePrefect8  Male.gif CyclonePrefect8 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 3515 days
Posts: 114
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusLupinFan View Post
I tend to agree that the Centaurs did foresee Harry's death as well. But what confuses me a little is that if Harry's death seven years from that time was foreseen, surely interfering at that moment wouldn't have changed the fact that Harry was going to be killed seven years from then (unless they didn't know when it was going to happen). Or does Bane's anger mean that Harry's death was predicted to happen at that moment by the hands of Quirrellmort? Or a third option - was Bane simply upset with Firenze on the principle that any kind of interference would change the future?
I think the third option is more likely. I think the centaurs can predict the future, but do not know when it will take place. It must be sort of like the time turner rules and interfering can cause major repercussions. If harry was supposed to die wouldn't he had jist died since voldemort had yet to take his blood?


__________________
"Perhaps just one more, Master Harry, for luck?" - Kreacher with pan in DH, Page 221
Wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure.
"Never forget Wizard Baruffio, who said 's' instead of 'f' and found himself on the floor with a buffalo on his chest" - Flitwick in SS page 171
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old August 6th, 2011, 4:46 am
joeandjo  Male.gif joeandjo is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3499 days
Posts: 4
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

I agree, Bane did foretell Harry's death...and I think it was intended to be so by Rowling (I read somewhere that she had planned "19 Years Later" sinc the beginning) Speaking of predicing Harry's death did the tea leaves in PoA predict it too???


__________________
"If you love America, love your fellow Americans" Jon Foreman

Pottermore username: HowlStrike32
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old August 6th, 2011, 5:11 am
Snapes_Girl's Avatar
Snapes_Girl  Female.gif Snapes_Girl is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 5702 days
Location: Hogwarts Castle
Posts: 452
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeandjo View Post
I agree, Bane did foretell Harry's death...and I think it was intended to be so by Rowling (I read somewhere that she had planned "19 Years Later" sinc the beginning) Speaking of predicing Harry's death did the tea leaves in PoA predict it too???
I never paid attention to this before now (after reading the books numerous times), but it certainly does sound very possible.


__________________
~*Snapes_Girl*~



Pottermore Profile:
OwlPurple114
House: Ravenclaw
Wand Specifics: 12 1/4 in...Cedar...Phoenix Feather...Unbending



Proud Member of the House of Ravenclaw
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old August 6th, 2011, 12:33 pm
Elangomatt's Avatar
Elangomatt  Undisclosed.gif Elangomatt is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 6787 days
Location: Chicago Area IL
Age: 40
Posts: 402
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

I don't think the centuar's knowledge of the future is granular enough to know about a specific death, even if it is the "chosen one" being killed by the dark lord. When Firenze came to the castle to teach divination, Pavarti or Lavendar said something about Mars being at a certain angle so people need to be careful about handling hot things. Firenze's reply to that was that was just a trivial human prediction and that the heaven's didn't predict things that minor. (Sorry for any mistakes, going off of memory here)

I think that Bane was just admonishing Firenze for rescuing Harry because the Centaurs already knew that Harry was a major part of the war that was going to start back up again.


Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old August 6th, 2011, 3:09 pm
blueowl  Female.gif blueowl is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3865 days
Location: Platform 9 3/4
Posts: 23
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

I think that they had some idea of what would happen, maybe they just knew that there would be a war, or that people would be killed. I do not belive that they saw all of what was to come just bits and pieces IMO they were much better at divination than most wizerds.


__________________
Proud Hufflepuff!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old August 6th, 2011, 3:25 pm
BubblyShell22  Female.gif BubblyShell22 is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4972 days
Location: Indiana
Age: 38
Posts: 1,331
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

They may have seen snippets of what was to come but not everything. I think Bane was angry that Firenze was helping Harry because centaurs normally have nothing to do with humans.


__________________
"It is our choices that show us who we truly are far more than our abilities." -Albus Dumbledore.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old August 6th, 2011, 3:37 pm
Coldwindblows  Male.gif Coldwindblows is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 3510 days
Location: Hosting Whose Line?.
Age: 24
Posts: 143
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Wow. I never thought of it that way, but now you're saying it like that, I wouldn't doubt it. Centaurs are very intelligent magical creatures who can read the stars. Firenze was better than Professor Trelawney at teaching Divination.
I would not be surprised at all if Bane DID predict something along those lines, however, maybe he didn't predict the full story, obviously he didn't know that Harry wouldn't be killed by the Avada Kedavra curse that Tom cast.
Good theory though, I wouldn't doubt he predicted something like that.


__________________
HI GUYS I LIKE WHOSE LINE IS IT ANYWAY.
Let's sing a memorial "trololo" for Eduard Khil... 1934-2012
Mikey Welsh, 1971-2011.
MCA, 1964-2012.
Do visit my My Immortal analysis: http://cwbpresentsmyimmortalanalysis.webs.com/
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old August 6th, 2011, 5:04 pm
Lonnie  Undisclosed.gif Lonnie is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3502 days
Posts: 46
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elangomatt View Post
I don't think the centuar's knowledge of the future is granular enough to know about a specific death, even if it is the "chosen one" being killed by the dark lord. When Firenze came to the castle to teach divination, Pavarti or Lavendar said something about Mars being at a certain angle so people need to be careful about handling hot things. Firenze's reply to that was that was just a trivial human prediction and that the heaven's didn't predict things that minor. (Sorry for any mistakes, going off of memory here)

I think that Bane was just admonishing Firenze for rescuing Harry because the Centaurs already knew that Harry was a major part of the war that was going to start back up again.
Yes, but that really WAS something trivial, made up my silly frauds like Trelawney (she doesn't even REMEMBER her real prophesies) so that when someone burns themselves, they can go "wow! She was right!" and if they didn't burn themselves, they just wouldn't think about it again, or would assume they were "careful" enough.

Harry's death however was pivotal in the destruction of the Dark Lord, whose reign caused great strife for more than just wizardkind. It affected muggles, magical creatures, everyone.

It was not "trivial." If Harry was the one destined to die to kill Voldemort, then his life is important enough to be specifically mentioned.

Also, I think everyone has made a valid point. 6 years isn't too long, so I suppose they could've had trouble predicting the exact time.

Besides, I really like this theory.


__________________
'Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.'
-Matsuo Basho
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old August 30th, 2011, 4:45 pm
mollypotter  Undisclosed.gif mollypotter is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 3504 days
Location: Top of the Astronomy Tower
Posts: 108
Re: Did the centaur Bane predict the end of Deathly Hallows?

Yeah those centaurs believe in all that mumbo jumbo I think the most likely knew a war was coming, and that Harry would die. They knew what was coming, generally, just not the details. I having the centaurs know about the war and voldemort would be just the kind of thing Rowling would've put in there. Would be a good question to ask her!


__________________


Pottermore: ShadowMagic
And because everyone loves a bit of Disney blog magic: Just a Spoonful of Sugar
Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone

Bookmarks

Tags
bane, centaur, firenze, harry, voldemort


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 1:48 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.