Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > MuggleNet Editorials > General Editorial

Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old August 19th, 2006, 8:37 pm
Guakamolly  Female.gif Guakamolly is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5050 days
Location: Israel
Posts: 0
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

interesting....! I like your way of thinking.

oh, by the way, did you notice the resemblance of "Bleak House" and ---> "Black House"??
and this whole deal with inheritance?

hmmm....


__________________
<a href="http://piratemonkeysinc.com/quiz.htm"><img src="http://piratemonkeysinc.com/images/INFJ.gif" width=275 height=250 border=0 alt="Pirate Monkey's Harry Potter Personality Quiz"><br>Harry Potter Personality Quiz</a> by <a href="http://piratemonkeysinc.com">Pirate Monkeys Inc.</a>
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #22  
Old August 19th, 2006, 10:59 pm
lafemmenissa  Female.gif lafemmenissa is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4695 days
Location: Santa Fe
Age: 37
Posts: 81
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

[quote=AMS][quote=Robb]I doubt it. If Dumbledore could tell Tom's "signature" when he was in the cave, I'm sure he would have been able to sense anything of his that was left over at Hogwarts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb

This isn't true. DD didn't sense the Diary at Hogwarts at all. This is witnessed by Harry in his cluelessness in confessing to McGonagall, "The question is not who, but how." In fact, I think the only way DD "senses" Vmt is in direct contact with magic.

In the cave in HBP, DD did just that--he was looking for what Vmt hid. He was sensing presence. A cup placed somewhere by an unknowing, obedient, or disobedient servant of Vmt would not have the trace of presence and knowledge that Vmt would undoubtably leave behind--in his arrogance and pride. Perhaps pride is what Dumbledore truly senses--unfounded, foolish pride in self, and in the selfish acts which Vmt commits.
But wouldn't Dumbledore, who knew what Hufflepuff's goblet looked like, have reconized it if it were in the Hogwarts trophy room? Anyway, this is not the topic of the thread...

I think that the editorial was great and presents us with a very plausible theory of where 7 could take us. Filch is always so much in the background that he is easy to overlook. I do wonder if there might be a piece of paper in one of those boxes of files that might lead Harry to the idenity of R.A.B... Filch could very well have in his posession, unknowingly, an important piece of the puzzle. Great job!

all the best,
la femme


__________________
W.O.M.B.A.T. Grade One: Outstanding
W.O.M.B.A.T. Grade Two: Exceeds Expectations
Join the ASA today and help prevent spoilers!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old August 19th, 2006, 11:25 pm
Irregardless  Undisclosed.gif Irregardless is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4780 days
Posts: 0
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

So the Kwikspell course may pay off after all! I can see the new Kwikspell ad now:

Caretaker A. Filch of Hogwarts says, "I never did a bit of magic before in my life. Runny-nosed first years made my life miserable. But thanks to six years of Kwikspell, I was finally able to cast a Punishment Charm on You-Know-Who, a former student who escaped, ah graduated, many years ago, winning me the gratitude and admiration of the wizarding world. For details, see my upcoming eight-volume autobiography."



Last edited by Irregardless; August 19th, 2006 at 11:28 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old August 20th, 2006, 12:14 am
Ammoniel  Undisclosed.gif Ammoniel is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4935 days
Posts: 0
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

Maybe Filch will also spontaneously combust the way Krook does. But that would be a bit ridiculous


Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old August 20th, 2006, 1:10 pm
inkling7  Female.gif inkling7 is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 4809 days
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 1,150
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

I like it - Bleak House is on ABC TV in Australia at the moment but I was overseas for the first episodes so decided not to watch the rest in the hope that it will be repeated in the not too distant furture. I think JK has read Dickens and like other stories - myths and legends has drawn snippets of stories and names of characters etc from them. This means we have great storylines in the Harry Potter stories which will be poplular like the LOTR books for a long, long time.
Maybe it will be Filch who suprises us and himself by performing magic under desperate circumstances.


Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old August 20th, 2006, 6:01 pm
Wimsey's Avatar
Wimsey  Male.gif Wimsey is offline
Curse Breaker
 
Joined: 5124 days
Location: What day is it?
Posts: 7,036
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeringrose
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionheart
Tom Riddle must've done his share of exploring Hogwarts when students were supposed to be in bed, attracting the unwanted attentions of Mrs. Norris and Filch, if indeed they were both around when Tom was there
Dang that cat is OLD!
There is no reason to think that Filch or Mrs. Norris are anywhere near that old. Filch was caretaker ~20 years before HBP, as he confiscated the Marauder's Map according to Lupin. However, he could not have been caretaker 10 years before that, as it was Filch's predecessor who beat Arthur Weasley to a pulp after catching him out of bounds after hours according to Molly Weasley.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
I doubt it. If Dumbledore could tell Tom's "signature" when he was in the cave, I'm sure he would have been able to sense anything of his that was left over at Hogwarts.
This isn't true. Dumbledore didn't sense the Diary at Hogwarts at all. This is witnessed by Harry in his cluelessness in confessing to McGonagall, "The question is not who, but how." In fact, I think the only way Dumbledore "senses" Vmt is in direct contact with magic.
The difference is that Dumbledore probably had searched the castle pretty thoroughly at different times looking for things associated with Voldemort. One would think that he would have gone through the records of what punishments Voldemort received as a student, as well as any possible records of things people accused Voldemort of doing (if such records exist: there is no indication that the "convicted's" side of the story was recorded the way that the criminal, crime and punishment were recorded).



Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS
In the cave in HBP, Dumbledore did just that--he was looking for what Vmt hid. He was sensing presence.
Actually, Dumbledore probably was using Arithmancy. That is a skill that curse-breakers need (according to career advice pamphlets in OotP) and about which Harry knows nothing. JKR has described it as being like numerology, which is an attempt to determine properties of things through numbers. (There is hellacious math involved.) Inferring the properties of curses and potions is what we saw Dumbledore do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS
A cup placed somewhere by an unknowing, obedient, or disobedient servant of Vmt would not have the trace of presence and knowledge that Vmt would undoubtably leave behind
Voldemort would not leave a Horcrux out in the open! JKR notes that when she dismissed the idea that the Sorting Hat (a relic of Gryffindor's) was a Horcrux. Now, the Cup would draw less attention to itself: but JKR would have to resort to an first-order idiot plot for Dumbledore to have never noticed it after having spent so much time looking for evidence of missing relics and after having examined the Hepzibah Smith memory. Indeed, a Hogwarts Founder's relic in the trophy room would rapidly become common knowledge and a point of interest among the students. All-in-all, it would be a lousy place to put a Horcrux: what would stop Peeves from just grabbing it and breaking it for hoots and giggles?

Unless Dumbledore is a complete idiot (and I don't think that JKR will make him out to be that), then we'll find that Voldemort has hidden his Horcruxes the way that Dumbledore says that he has: in places of personal importance to Voldemort about which he thinks that he and only he knows, and very-well protected with magical traps and enchantments. Remember, even the Diary ultimately would have gone into the Chamber of Secrets!


That being said, I think that this is a very insightful essay. I am inclined to think that Filch is a literary tip of the cap to Krook rather than some sort of parallel. It would be one thing for JKR to salute one of her literary heroes in a small way: indeed, we've seen numerous small doffs of the cap to Jane Austen already. However, it would be quite enough to "borrow" a plot-line. This would not be like the MacBethian prophecy - the idea of the self-fulfilling prophecy was old when Shakespeare used it - as Krook's mishaps are fairly unique.


I'm still betting on Mrs. Figg being the one who successfully does magic, now that Petunia is out of the running. JKR has put the "they can attack after Harry turns 17" gun on the wall fairly prominently: given her Chekovian style, I expect her to shoot it. That does not guarantee that Figgy will be involved: but one would be surprised if she were not.


__________________
(It doubles for The Hobbit, too!)
If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there. - A. P. Chekhov, Gurlyand's Reminiscences, and who knew why the Dog was long before the Shack!

Last edited by Wimsey; August 20th, 2006 at 7:22 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old August 20th, 2006, 9:39 pm
Phil_Stone  Undisclosed.gif Phil_Stone is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4893 days
Posts: 369
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

An interesting editorial.

My first thought when I finished was of the concluding scene of Raiders of the Lost Ark, where there Ark is put somewhere for safe keeping with so many other things that it is sure to be lost foever. But bureaucracy doesn't strike me as Voldemort's idea of an ideal defense. While it would be a good way to hide something at Hogwarts where no one would find it, it would not necesarily be safe. The horcrux would have to be something which would never be thrown away if the files were ever cleared up. But the risk would be that the files would not be examined carefully when cleared.

Could the horcrux be the file cabinet itself? Permanently attached to the wall with the sort of spell Mrs. Black used to perpetuate her self through her portrait? But even if the file cabinet had originally been Gryindor's, it doesn't seem to be the sort of thing Voldemort would consider suitable. Isn't he in some respects competing with the Chamber of Secrets in this regard?

For these rreasons I doubt the Horcrux is in Filch's "care".But it does suggest something else. We have been assuming that the objects are all small. But presumably, like Snape, all the founders had a home or abode of some sort outside of Hogwarts. Could the house at Goderic's Hollow have once been Gryfindor's? Would that make a suitable horcrux? What about the house at Grimmauld Place? Could that have once been the home of someone more important than the Blacks? Is it possible that the reason some of those objects resisted being moved from the wall is that Voldemort left them secured to an unplotable house?

Filch may like to confiscate things, but he doesn't seem to do it for his own benefit. While he takes satisfaction from the students' misery, he generally seems to be acting from an interest in protecting the school. In this regard he doesn't really seem to have earned his name, yet. And yet we may still find that he has confiscated something which he keeps for his own entertainment, which perhaps he hasn't mentioned to Dumbledore. And perhaps this will be a key.


Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old August 21st, 2006, 12:52 am
MooMooImADuck  Undisclosed.gif MooMooImADuck is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4939 days
Posts: 0
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

Brilliant theory! I loved it!

Nearly everything makes perfect sense. (I haven't read Bleak House yet, but I think I might now.) The evidence for this parallel is overwhelming. Great insight on what Krook's fate means for Filch.

I've always felt sorry for Filch, so I hope JK deters from the parallel ever so slightly to spare him. She had said that she allowed one doomed character to live, so maybe it's him.


Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old August 21st, 2006, 2:29 am
gaucho  Male.gif gaucho is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4991 days
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

I think the comment 'Now that Petunia's out of the picture' is perhaps a little premature. I think the quotes from JKR read 'No, Petunia is not a squib; she is a muggle'.This does not preclude the possibility that she may, late in life and in desperate circumstances (remember that the moment Harry turns 17, LV is very likely to turn up in Privet Drive) be able to perform some sort of magic; we have discussed the genetics of magic and 90% agree that it is the dominant one; who is to say (quote #2) '...there is more to [Petunia] than meets the eye, and you'll find out what in book 7', that a dormant magical gene could not come 'magically' to the fore if she were confronted by the man or wizard she fears the most, which allowed her to do something remerkable to save the boy that she grudgingly accepted; recall her absolute horror in OotP when she found out that LV was BACK! No, I don't think that she's out of the picture yet.
Also, much as I like the comparison between Krook and Filch, it is the first name 'Argus', the man of a thousand eyes, which intrigues me more, and was more likely the inspiration for his name. Just my twopence worth!
Love and Peace,
GAUCHO


Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old August 21st, 2006, 5:32 am
justaHPfan's Avatar
justaHPfan  Female.gif justaHPfan is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 5068 days
Location: FL
Age: 42
Posts: 1,238
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

Gaucho, JKR said on her site in the Rumors section that Petunia will not start exhibiting magical qualities. That's where the idea of Petunia being out of the picture came from.

This was an interesting editorial. I enjoyed it! Thanks for the info on Dickens. I too am still considering Figgy as the one, but Filch is in the running as well, obviously. Imagine if Hogwarts were attacked?! That would be a desperate situation.


__________________
He "sobbed and sobbed"?! Oh no!!!!!!!!!!
What's that support number again?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old August 21st, 2006, 11:05 am
Harryzhorcrux  Female.gif Harryzhorcrux is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4790 days
Location: Melbourne
Age: 32
Posts: 1
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

Nice work, very nice indeed

The thing probably was the Mauraders Map but I like the idea of him using the magic late in life.


Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old August 21st, 2006, 9:28 pm
im_her_one  Female.gif im_her_one is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4542 days
Location: I'm ubiquitous...look it up
Posts: 2
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

Extremely interesting article. I've long been feeling that Filch needs to have some bigger part in the books. I never liked the idea of his being there just to get Harry into trouble or make him a little nervous on his "nighttime wanderings". I'd also wondered what else of interest Filch has in his files that could help Harry (the Marauder's Map was certainly a big help).

However, I don't know about the "magic late in life" statement. I would really like it to pertain to Mrs. Figg (she's one of my favorite characters), but if the other things in this editorial are true, it would make much more sense for that to pertain to Filch.

Good editorial, all in all.


__________________
Great Quotes To Live By:
"Alas, Earwax!"
"Nitwit, Blubber, Oddment, Tweak!"
"Ah music, a magic beyond all we do here..."
"Really, Hagrid, if you are holding out for universal popularity, I'm afraid you will be in this cabin for a very long time."
Join the movement to kick Peter Pettigrew out of the Marauders! Make James, Sirius, Remus, Fred and George the REAL Marauders! Add this to your signature to join! A proud member of Dear Dumby as Penelope ClearwaterProud Member of PA
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old August 21st, 2006, 11:11 pm
SoccerDM  Undisclosed.gif SoccerDM is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4757 days
Location: zanesville
Posts: 17
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziprose
Very cool theory. I hold a hope that Hufflepuff's cup is in Hogwarts' trophy room... I would be thrilled if this theory panned out. =)
I would not immediately dismiss this theory, but it seems to me that Voldemort may have put a curse on the cup, which was similar to Slytherin's ring. And we know that in Ron's second year he had to polish and shine every trophy in the trophy case twice. Nothing bad happened to Ron. But I guess that the Riddle Diary didn't do anything bad to you if one were to touch it; it only tried to possess you if you wrote in it.


Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old August 22nd, 2006, 4:28 am
ldysamillya709 ldysamillya709 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4510 days
Posts: 1
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

Wow! That's a really interesting theory! I can't wait to see how it works out. I hope it does, because I really enjoy the idea.


Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old August 22nd, 2006, 7:18 am
Dumbldoresman77 Dumbldoresman77 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4669 days
Posts: 0
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

I Loved the theory good research. I just had a thought what if voldemort hid the horcrux in the room of requirement. That way its hidden in a place of importance to him (hogwarts) and i feel confident he did his own wandering around hogwarts while he was there, so he would know about the room. What If Harry goes back to get his potions book and sees something in the room that he investigates and it turns out to be hufflepuffs cup or the unknown Horcrux hidden along with the junk. ANother way the room could be used which could prove more difficult for harry is that voldemort used the room the way malfoy did, so that no one can get inside unless they know what the room is being used for. This would be tricky for harry becuase even if he got in side voldemort would have enchanted *** object. I know this is purely speculatoin but its just a though.



I am dumbledores man through and through

"the unknown is all we fear from death and darkness, nothing more"
- albus dumbledore


Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old August 22nd, 2006, 9:39 am
subtlepotions  Female.gif subtlepotions is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4699 days
Posts: 2
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

great editorial! I am so happy to see some overlap between harry potter fans and bleak house fans... I was glued to pbs during its broadcast of the bbc's production of bleak house. I think that Argus Filch is definitely a literary twin of Krook's and I think you make a very good point that this may come up in Harry's favor in Book 7. Perhaps Filch's meticulous records of all the students' mischief over the years will pay off and give Harry a clue to the next Horcrux or missing persons associated with the horcrux. Filch is just the sort of anti-hero that may, in trying to protect what is most important to him -the 'law and order' of hogwarts-, wind up thwarting the bad guys long enough to give Harry enough room to get ahead of them (unintentionally, of course).

also - my first post after a lot of lurking - yeah!


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old August 22nd, 2006, 9:41 am
magiccheese magiccheese is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4513 days
Posts: 0
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziprose
Very cool theory. I hold a hope that Hufflepuff's cup is in Hogwarts' trophy room... I would be thrilled if this theory panned out. =)
Maybe a horcrux is in the room of requirement when it is the room where people hide things.


Interesting editorial.


Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old August 22nd, 2006, 7:37 pm
Harry_Lives  Undisclosed.gif Harry_Lives is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4798 days
Posts: 68
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

Fascinating. I love literary parallels like this. And now that you have spotlighted this information about Filch it occurrs to me how many seemingly unimportant facts about Filch could turn out to be as important as the vanishing cabinet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subtlepotions
Perhaps Filch's meticulous records of all the students' mischief over the years will pay off and give Harry a clue to the next Horcrux or missing persons associated with the horcrux.
That is what struck me upon reading this. All those hours Harry spent recopying the files. Perhaps he will recall seeing something of importance?


Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old August 23rd, 2006, 2:03 pm
Jewal  Female.gif Jewal is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5398 days
Location: The Potterverse
Posts: 27
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

I really like your theory!

Ironically enough the actor who plays filch has played characters in several dickens movies.


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old August 25th, 2006, 12:16 am
Desraelda's Avatar
Desraelda  Female.gif Desraelda is offline
Registered Animagus
 
Joined: 5070 days
Location: FlahDah
Posts: 4,210
Re: Ruminations on Filch, Charles Dickens and Book 7

I recently watched Bleak House myself so I can see the parallel. Very well-drawn. Most parallels to HP have to stretch some points, but I think you hit all targets.

Can't remember the names of all the characters, but the young couple that got married ... hopefully, there is no connection to Ron and Hermione, because the young man died.

Well done.


Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > MuggleNet Editorials > General Editorial

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 3:56 pm.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.