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View Poll Results: Can James in any way be blamed for what happened in 1981? | |||
Yes, he should have chosen Dumbledore as Secret Keeper. |
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40 | 12.27% |
Partly. He and Lily should not have agreed to switch to Peter. |
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26 | 7.98% |
No, he could not have anticipated such a betrayal. Hindsight is twenty-twenty. |
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110 | 33.74% |
No, he trusted his friends, something that paid off for Harry in DH, despite Remus' warning. |
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89 | 27.30% |
The only one to blame is Voldemort. |
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44 | 13.50% |
Oh dear, I never like Moriath's options. |
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8 | 2.45% |
Something else entirely that hopefully doesn't include Snape. |
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9 | 2.76% |
Voters: 326. You may not vote on this poll |
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#41
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
I have a question. Does the last poll option "Something else entirely that hopefully doesn't include Snape." mean you think the blame lies somewhere/on someone else that's not Snape, or you just don't want to involve Snape in this discussion period due to past craziness in these boards?
Cause really, I picked "the blame lies with Voldemort only", but I still think other little factors were involved. But I'm pretty much with the latter of what I said above, which is too late because I'm discussing Snape already. Aww ****.
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#42
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
1. What are James' greatest strengths? What his greatest weaknesses?
Well, I don't really like James, I agree heartily with Lily, who called him and arrogant toe-rag. His strengths are probably loyalty and bravery, while his weaknesses are arrogance, only-child-itis, and all that those entail. 2. Do you think James had ulterior motives for saving Snape in the Shack incident or was he doing the right thing on instinct? I think he probably had a motive, be it that he wanted to score points with Lily for saving her oldest friend or that he wanted to save Remus from discovery/guilt. 3. Which qualities do you think made Dumbledore choose James as Head Boy? His loyalty and bravery, which are both in such large amounts that they almost overcome his other flaws. 4. What do you think about James throwing himself in Voldemort's way and dying wandless? Foolish or very brave or both? Both. He was deeply stupid to try and take on Lord Voldemort, but also very gallant to give up his life in the hopes that Lily and Harry would escape. 5. James is Harry’s father but he died before Harry had the chance to get to know him. Is he a good role model? Would he have become a good father? How has he influenced Harry’s present life? Well, there's no way of knowing. I don't feel I know enough about James as a person to form an opinion on that. 6. Why did James choose Sirius over Dumbledore as Secret Keeper? Didn’t he trust Dumbledore with his life? Probably he just felt he could trust Sirius more, so it's not really a question of him trusting Dumbledore. 7. James made Sirius Harry’s godfather. Was this a good decision? Yes and no. Sirius was a great comfort to Harry, but a lousy role-model. 8. We got bits and pieces of James’ life. Has he matured over the years and become a better person? I couldn't begin to tell you. I don't feel JK gives us an adequate James background for such postulations. 9. What was James’ relationship to Lily Evans/Sirius Black/Peter Pettigrew/Remus Lupin/Albus Dumbledore/Minerva McGonagall/Frank and Alice Longbottom? Lily- Most change, romantic Sirius- best friend to point of brotherhood Peter- pet Remus- equivalent of Harry's Hermione Dumbledore- teacher-student... McGonagall- strict teacher-rebellious student Neville's mum and dad- no idea. 10. How did DH change your view on James Potter? It didn't really. 11. How did Lily's friendship with Snape influence James' behaviour? Probably their friendship made him feel threatened, which was displayed in his torture of Snape. 12. James supported his friend Remus Lupin financially after school. How do you interpret this piece of information? They were good friends, James had a lot of money, what is there to interpret? I see it as just friendship--if one of my mates needed help with money, I'd do whatever I could. 13. James and Lily were full-time Order members. How long do you think they kept fighting before they went into hiding? What does this say about James' character? Probably a few months. I think it says that James was brave and dedicated to his cause....although that did result in his death. |
#43
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
I can understand why they didn't choose Dumbledore. According to Lily's letter to Sirius, this would have been around the same time they found out about DD's friendship with Grindelwald. It's the sort of thing that would have made them suspicious, at least.
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#44
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
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Anyway, to me it all boiled down to James's loyalty to Sirius and Peter over a man that they respected, but probably weren't particularly close to.
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Last edited by snapes_witch; January 10th, 2010 at 2:17 am. |
#45
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
That's what I thought, as well. She acknowledged that Bathilda was an older lady and seemed to be taking most of her stories with a grain of salt, because she indicated that it was pretty difficult to believe. Still, I think that they knew Dumbledore enough to understand that he was the only man Voldemort ever feared, incredibly wise, etc. Plus, wasn't it widely known that Dumbledore had defeated Grindelwald and imprisoned him by then?
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#46
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
snapes_witch and SwedishSkinJer nail it, I think.
Lily's letter indicates that she puts little credence in Bathilda's story. Instead, she thinks Bathilda's mind is going. And of course, it was widely known that Dumbledore had defeated Grindelwald. Bathilda seems to be the only person old enough to remember that they had once been friends. Even if James and Lily had believed Bathilda's story, why would they refuse to allow Dumbledore to be secret keeper - when Dumbledore had later defeated Grindelwald and sent him to prison? Those actions would tend to argue for the notion that Dumbledore was so offended by the Dark Arts and by Grindelwald's crimes that he was willing to forsake an old friendship in order to defeat the Dark Wizard who was causing so much harm. So I really don't see Bathilda's stories - at least what we know of them - to give James and Lily any reason to disallow Dumbledore as the secret keeper. If she was telling James and Lily about Ariana, that might be another matter. But I don't think there's any evidence (is there?) that Bathilda went in to the other Dumbledore family secrets with the Potters.
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#47
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
This. As I see it, JKR wasn't writing a bunch of filler in DH, she had a clear cut idea of what information she wanted to provide and included it for a reason. Dumbledore wasn't looking very trustworthy - it was fact he'd taken 5 years to confront Grindlewald and now someone who had no reason to lie about Dumbledore was supplying a basis for his behavior to the Potters. The wise decision was to not place your safety in the hands of a man who might have some kind of relationship or goal oriented notions about the new and improved dark lord just as he had had relative to the one in the past. Lily didn't want to believe it, just as Harry didn't want to believe it when he found out either. But just like her son, it was sufficient to engender doubt and I'd imagine that extended to James as well. Frankly, after DH, considering what happened to many people who did put their faith in Dumbledore, the Potters were justified in a decision not to go with him, imo. Moody, Amelia, Snape, Sirius, Harry, Ariana, Alberforth, George...the list goes on and on.
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![]() Last edited by wickedwickedboy; January 10th, 2010 at 6:31 am. |
#48
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
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I like how Love for another person is what makes people act in the whole series. People are motivated by Love of one kind or another, in one form or another. James, Sirius, Lily, Snape, Dumbledore, Bellatrix, Narcissa, Lucius are all motivated by love in one form or another and Voldemort acts because he does not know love at all.
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The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly :indy: Last edited by The_Green_Woods; January 10th, 2010 at 6:24 am. |
#49
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
Aren't we loyal to those we love? I see no distinction between love and loyalty with regard to James and Sirius.
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![]() SEVERUS SNAPE HEADMASTER HOGWARTS SCHOOL OF WITCHCRAFT AND WIZARDRY 1997-98 REQUIESCAT IN PACE 9 JANUARY, 1960 - 2 MAY, 1998
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#50
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
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![]() The fact that they dismissed Dumbledore and Lupin, but chose their weak friend Peter based on the fact that he was insignificant to the Dark Lord, makes me question their judgment. JMO
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#51
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
Yes.
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With Sirius it was different; I think James' love for him made him lose sight of what he needed to do, with what the priority was at the time. (with respect to the SK switch I mean) Even if they did not think Peter was the traitor, they should have known that he was the weakest link. If he were caught; he would either spill the secret if he was the SK or he would tell Voldemort who the SK was. Peter should have never been chosen and he should have never known who the SK was. He was Sirius' suggestion, another reason to think carefully. Sirius was known to be reckless. James and Lily never thought of it though IMO.
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The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly :indy: |
#52
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
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![]() Last edited by wickedwickedboy; January 10th, 2010 at 12:12 pm. |
#53
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
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If their distrust of Lupin wasn't about being a werewolf, then to me the only other answer was Lupin's inability to get a job, which meant he had to spend time with other Werewolves, and that's what they feared. But that's just one theory. Another theory is that Lupin might have questioned their distrust of Dumbledore or the fact that they were still cruising around when they were supposed to be hiding. That would be seen as disloyalty to the Marauders group on Lupin's part, whereas Peter appeared to be loyal when he was really a traitor. Dumbledore says it himself in DH: "They trusted the wrong people." Which means they didn't trust the right people. The fact that Lupin is not mentioned in Lily's letter as being around the summer before they died is also in the canon. In my opinion, they never discussed their plans with Lupin before they died. To me, if they chose one person over another,they were dismissing someone. JMO
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#54
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
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But I wouldn't say that James's weakness was love for Sirius. I don't think James's trust in Sirius was misplaced at all. I would say that his love for Peter was the weakness. From what Sirius said, they all would have died to protect Peter, and they all simply expected that Peter would do the same for them. Still, even though I originally said that loyalty was James's greatest weakness (because I'm on this anti-blind-loyalty kick), I still voted in the poll that hindsight is 20/20. I don't like blaming the victim, especially when I have so little information. It's hard to know what would have happened, given what little we know about that time and the characters involved. Plenty of people have been fooled by double agents. Nor do I think that James didn't take Dumbledore's warning seriously-- the Potters were going under the Fidelius Charm (sp?), afterall, which could have protected them suffinciently, in my opinion, if Sirius had been Secret Keeper. I think Dumbledore's warning made them second-think their original plan to have Sirius as there Secret Keeper-- and the irony is that I think they would have been fine if they had stuck to the original plan. Quote:
Dumbledore might say, "They trusted the wrong people." But I think this also points to the need to have good information. When only sketchy information is available, I think it natural to stick with those people you are familiar with and trust, and love. I never saw Dumbledore as one who imparted much information to other people, and I don't know why he would be any different with the Potters. Quote:
Last edited by OldMotherCrow; January 10th, 2010 at 3:26 pm. |
#55
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
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Therefore, it is canon that Sirius believed Lupin was the spy. It is not canon that James and Lily thought the same - that is only a theory. I think the theory has some grounds, but I do not think it is, overall, true. I do not think Sirius singled Remus out as the spy - he simply thought it was possible that Lupin was the spy and did not want to risk it. Why? Probably because he was suspicious of everyone at that point, given Voldemort's influence. As wickedwickedboy says, Sirius likely would have seen Lupin as one of the top wizards Voldemort would approach, and Sirius would, therefore, have some trepidations about Lupin. One reason he did not suspect Peter, in my opinion, was that Peter was vital to his plan succeeding. Therefore, Sirius was blinded of the possibility of Peter being the spy because he was desperate for Peter not to be the spy. Also, Sirius probably would have thought Peter was unlikely to be recruited by Voldemort - it would have purely been Peter's decision, and Sirius would not have believed one of his best friends would betray him and James willingly. How does this relate to James and Lily? I believe James trusted Sirius more than anyone else, hence why Sirius was the original Secret Keeper. If Sirius trusted or did not trust someone, I think James and Lily were prone to do the same. Quote:
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#56
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
The way I see it, they suspected Lupin by way of elimination. I think James, even in the end, was not completely sure that Lupin was the spy. I think it was Sirius who believed it. He told James and James, unwillingly, agreed. I think Lupin spending lot of time with werewolves would also have fueled suspicions.
I think the SK plan was sound. I believe there were systems in place to warn James and Lily if something went wrong. Unfortunately for them, it was rendered useless because Peter willingly sold them out. |
#57
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
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I am blaming James for what he did not do. What he should have done; he could have done IMO. That was James' mistake and I am only pointing out that part of it. Quote:
Of course more than Sirius, the final responsibility lay with James and Lily; but I think James followed Sirius because he was Sirius, and he loved Sirius IMO. Quote:
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The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape! There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard Spotlight on Snape and Molly :indy: |
#58
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
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#59
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
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#60
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4
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