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Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?



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  #21  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 8:45 am
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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Originally Posted by StaceysChain View Post
Yes I do think he did a very good job. I personally think Michael Goldberg was better and I would've loved to see what he could've done with the other films, but I think Kloves got better and better with each film. Don't forget he might've written really excellent lines and scenes but they were cut out for whatever reason. There are some parts that he really could've improved on (Ron for example) but overall, I think he did a good job adapting Rowling's complex world on screen. Deathly Hallows Parts 1 and 2 were utterly fantastic.

Wow! I'm actually surprised that alot of people's movie-only friends get confused. Most of my family and friends only watch the movies and they're totally fine. My mother for example correctly guessed that Harry was a horcrux and figured out the Elder Wand plot because she recognuse it in Dumbledore's grave. In fact, now that I think about it the only things she got confused by was the prophecy and what happened between Snape and Lily.



Yes I agree.



I disagree entirely. I think Michael Goldenberg kept more true to Ron's character (in fact, most of the characters to some extent) than Kloves. What about that scene were Ron supports Harry in the common room in front of the whole house? What about that scene were Ron congratulates Harry on doing a grrat job with the DA? And there's a deleted scene where Ron asks if Harry's ok after Sirius's death. Regardless Kloves really improved on Ron's character in the Deathly Hallows films.



I completely disagree. I think the Harry/Dumbledore relationship in Half-Blood Prince was written beautifully by Kloves and was brought to life on screen by Radcliffe and Gambon. If people really think Kloves ships Harry/Hermione, then I think they should go watch Chamber of Secrets, Prisoner of Azkaban, Goblet of Fire, Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows Part 1 all over again and watch closely. There are tons of scenes that clearly say Ron/Hermione not Harry/Hermione. In POA, where Harry first meets Buckbeak, Hermione grabs Ron's arm and they look at each other awkardly. There's another scene where Hermione innocently suggests they get closer to the shrieking shack and Ron gets the wrong idea for a moment. Even Rowling herself got kinda scared because Kloves was unknowingly foreshadowing their get-together in Deathly Hallows which wasn't even out yet! Not to mention scenes like Ron's jeaously and his and Hermione's argument in Goblet of Fire, Hermione's jeaously in confiding in Harry about it, Ron speaking Hermione's name in his sleep and she holds his hand in Half-Blood Prince and Hermione crying when Ron leaves and the "tiny ball of light" scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1. I could go on and on but it's best if I leave it at that. And people think Kloves ships Harry/Hermione just because that Hermione is his favourite character and of one little dance? *shakes head*

I think I went off-topic there, but I had to say it.
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  #22  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 8:55 am
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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Order of the Phoenix was written by Michael Goldenberg.
That explains a lot. That movie, while good, was really confusing. I followed the others just fine. Even GoF! And i didnt read the books until after OotP film came out. GoF, while obviously missing lots, was still pretty easy to follow and to understand the key plots. OotP felt more disjointed.

Overall, i think Mr. Kloves did fine. Its difficult to adapt anything let alone a series like Harry Potter. Im not exactly the purist type, so i can hang with deviation from things. I think the DH movies were his best!


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  #23  
Old September 4th, 2011, 2:57 pm
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

Steve Kloves was an amazing screenwriter. It's the directors who messed things up, by cutting loads of the script out and leaving you to infer what happened in those scenes.

The first two films made loads of sense, but were boring - that was Columbus's influence. As another poster mentioned, he wanted to keep as true to the books as possible, and did.

The next film was brilliantly written, and the Marauder's storyline was cut out by Cuaron, not Kloves.

Goblet of Fire was fairly well written, except the Barty Crouch storyline, which I'm convinced must have existed in some more significant format before Newell chopped it up, giving the film a disjointed feel.

Order of the Phoenix can't be blamed on Kloves, but Goldenberg's writing was emotional and surely made sense before Yates cut down his three-hour film into just over two hours.

Half-Blood Prince had amazing screenwriting. It holds together well as a film, and it's one of the only films with no major plot holes.

Deathly Hallows makes very little sense to non-book readers, but if you examine the original script, a lot of those things are explained but were cut out so as to make the movie less boring.


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Old September 4th, 2011, 4:39 pm
Lotoc_Sabbath  Male.gif Lotoc_Sabbath is offline
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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Originally Posted by jallen View Post
Half-Blood Prince had amazing screenwriting. It holds together well as a film, and it's one of the only films with no major plot holes.

Deathly Hallows makes very little sense to non-book readers, but if you examine the original script, a lot of those things are explained but were cut out so as to make the movie less boring.
Agreed. This is very much what I think.
I really loved Kloves' work only in HBP, I know that some of Voldemort's past was missed but that really was the only big thing he cut, maybe making in a bit more longer would have been good, and actually it is the only film in which Ron really seems Ron I must say. The humorism was so balanced and great.


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  #25  
Old September 5th, 2011, 4:02 am
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
Just a reminder -- OotP can't be blamed on Kloves; that was Michael Goldenberg's fiasco.
Oh yeah! Thanks for the reminder!
And while there are a lot of things I didn't like, me and e eryone here are major potter heads. We will NEVER be satisfied. It was very much a thankless job. I know lots of silly people that never bothered to read the books and loved the movies because of that.


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  #26  
Old September 6th, 2011, 1:13 am
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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Originally Posted by Lotoc_Sabbath View Post
Agreed. This is very much what I think.
I really loved Kloves' work only in HBP, I know that some of Voldemort's past was missed but that really was the only big thing he cut, maybe making in a bit more longer would have been good, and actually it is the only film in which Ron really seems Ron I must say. The humorism was so balanced and great.
Kloves said in an interview that he wrote all the HBP Riddle flashback scenes, but Yates chose not to use them.


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  #27  
Old September 7th, 2011, 4:03 am
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
Kloves said in an interview that he wrote all the HBP Riddle flashback scenes, but Yates chose not to use them.
I think that this summarizes the fundamental problem with this discussion, and one that Jallen hits a couple of posts back: unless we have the scripts in hand, it is really tough to separate what Kloves did from what the director did. Scripts for some of the films are (or were) online, and they illustrate this nicely. The Chamber script was much more adapted than the final product: Columbus altered adaptations back to what was in the book. Conversely, the Prisoner script was less adapted than the final product: Cuaron altered some parts that were closer to the book to (in his opinion and mine, in comparison) better tell the story cinematically.

One of the most obvious differences that I remember is that the Chamber script was (like the book) presented so that the film would be from Harry's point of view. The way the book does this simply cannot be done cinematically unless you resort to having Harry narrate his thoughts. So, this failure was Columbus', not Kloves. Columbus also re-inserted a lot of things into the first two films that were nice narrative backdrop in the book, but irrelevant distractions in a film. So, again, we cannot blame Kloves for those.

I never have seen the scripts for Prince, but Snapes_witch brings up another example that Yates verified elsewhere. Kloves' script included the lessons about Voldemort and also included Scrimgeour. In other words, it included the ingredients for telling Rowling's story about Harry's choices in personal politics. Yates dropped all of that and instead told a story about teenage sexual politics, which is just one aspect of personal politics. So, this is a case where we might complain (with justification) that the movie told a different story than the book did, but this was the director's decision, not the scriptwriter's.

If I get a chance, I'll see if I can dig out those old URLs. It's possible that other scripts also are available: I suspect that Prisoner was the last I looked at in part because the other films were not out yet, which means that those URLs might very well be defunct!


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  #28  
Old September 7th, 2011, 6:58 am
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

I think everyone did the best they good given the stories they had to work with. I don't think it was easy writing a screen adaptation nor was it easy to direct it. But I like the films overall. there was just some things that were left out I wish wasn't left out.


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  #29  
Old September 16th, 2011, 8:45 am
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

No, I hated what he did to the characters. Because of him I can't love the movies.

There's no equality with the trio because he writes them with the Hollywood mindset of hero, heroine, sidekick. And that's what I hate.


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  #30  
Old September 18th, 2011, 9:21 pm
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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There's no equality with the trio because he writes them with the Hollywood mindset of hero, heroine, sidekick. And that's what I hate.
Then you must hate what Rowling wrote, which is hero and two sidekicks. There certainly was no equality among the characters there: Harry was the protagonist, with Ron and Hermione both supporting characters, and with Hermione being vastly more useful than Ron. Indeed, a question 4.5 years ago was: how would Ron be useful in the last book? The question about Hermione was, which of the many uses Hermione has would be important?

At any rate, didn't Rowling herself say that the reason why she immediately hit it off with Kloves was that his favorite character was Hermione? She, herself, did much more with Hermione than she did with Ron, so you cannot fault Kloves, Yates, etc., for doing the same.

(Of course, there were several threads on this site devoted to Hermione being so badly out-of-character throughout Half-Blood Prince: so, perhaps Rowling didn't know Hermione very well, either! )


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  #31  
Old September 18th, 2011, 11:24 pm
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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Then you must hate what Rowling wrote, which is hero and two sidekicks. There certainly was no equality among the characters there: Harry was the protagonist, with Ron and Hermione both supporting characters, and with Hermione being vastly more useful than Ron. Indeed, a question 4.5 years ago was: how would Ron be useful in the last book? The question about Hermione was, which of the many uses Hermione has would be important?

At any rate, didn't Rowling herself say that the reason why she immediately hit it off with Kloves was that his favorite character was Hermione? She, herself, did much more with Hermione than she did with Ron, so you cannot fault Kloves, Yates, etc., for doing the same.

(Of course, there were several threads on this site devoted to Hermione being so badly out-of-character throughout Half-Blood Prince: so, perhaps Rowling didn't know Hermione very well, either! )
Like Hermione is more useful in terms of knowledge and ideas, Ron is more useful than Hermione to Harry in terms of understanding what it is like to be Harry's best friend. :P And by that, I don't mean that Hermione is any less of a friend, but that Harry is more comfortable around Ron than Hermione - and the scenes in GoF and DH without Ron proves that. In GoF, he even said that having Hermione as a best friend meant more trips to the library and a lot less laughter.

You are correct; Hermione and Ron are both Harry's sidekicks. But Hermione and Ron are also equally important to Harry.

And Kloves, being biased because Hermione is his favorite character, doesn't quite show the bromance that Harry and Ron have. I'm not saying that he ships H/Hr or anything (although that could be a possibility), but I personally think that Hermione gets way more screentime and better lines and therefore seems more prominent to the viewers than in the book where she and Ron both get equal importance.

I disagree. JK Rowling made Ron just as much of a character as she did with Hermione. In fact, out of all the characters, I would say Ron is the most human of them all - his friendly, light hearted personality mixed with his flaws of jealousy and stubbornness makes him a realistic character. JK Rowling said that she put herself in Harry and Hermione, while Ron is based off her best friend. The fact that she "hit off" because Kloves' favorite character was Hermione doesn't prove that Hermione was more important at all - Kloves' favorite could have been Harry or Ron and she might have said the same.

Also, how the heck could readers know more about the character than the actual author? That makes absolutely no sense. Hermione's personality did not change drastically at all in HBP - though this is going to go off topic...


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  #32  
Old September 19th, 2011, 2:13 am
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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Also, how the heck could readers know more about the character than the actual author? That makes absolutely no sense. Hermione's personality did not change drastically at all in HBP - though this is going to go off topic...
That was part of my point: there have always been fans who think that they understand the characters better than anybody else, including the author. I agree that it is absurd: but that is also human nature. (I think that the "Hermione was out of character," "Dumbledore was out of character," "Harry was out of character" threads can still be found in the books section if you care to go back and look; they do provide a history of how hardcore fans reacted back in 2005 and even 2003 to things Rowling did that hardcore fans did not anticipate.)


As for Hermione and Ron being equally important, well, that is very subjective. However, Hermione always was much more important than Ron for advancing both plots and themes, which happen to be things that films do well. One could argue that Ron did more for developing Harry's character. We would have to agree to differ on that, but I certainly would agree that this is where Ron was most important in the stories, especially after Chamber. However, this rarely was material that would have worked on screen.

What that means is that of the "cinematic" material that Rowling presented, Rowling shafted Ron relative to Hermione. Now, could Kloves have done more to balance this? Possibly: but not without fundamentally altering Ron by making him much more able in magic, general knowledge and wit than he was in the books.

(Again, when we put together the "101 Questions to be Answered in Hallows" "test" 5 years ago, one of our struggles was to even come up with options for how Ron could be important; we had no problem at all coming up with options for how Hermione could be.)


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  #33  
Old September 19th, 2011, 5:12 am
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

^ Oh, lol okay, now I see that you weren't actually agreeing with whoever said they knew more than the author. xD It IS absurd. o_o'

Yes, of course Hermione is important for advancing the plot. Because that's what her character was written as. She's supposed to be clever and help Harry to move on with the show.

Quote:
What that means is that of the "cinematic" material that Rowling presented, Rowling shafted Ron relative to Hermione. Now, could Kloves have done more to balance this? Possibly: but not without fundamentally altering Ron by making him much more able in magic, general knowledge and wit than he was in the books.
He wouldn't have to do anything more to Ron to make him balance with Hermione. He could have left out scenes where Hermione acted like she knew everything or when Hermione is there to comfort Harry, but Ron almost never is. Hermione isn't there to give Harry all the answers; that's Dumbledore's job. Not every little thing is answered by Hermione (or Dumbledore, for that matter) either - other characters step in to help Harry throughout the books. All Kloves needed to do was look at the characters objectively. And I'm not just talking about advancing the plot, either.

When you read the books, you get the sense that Harry loves both Ron and Hermione equally, Ron having the position of his loyal best mate who he can understand the most while Hermione having the position of his nurturing friend who supports him. When you watch the movies, Hermione seems to take the place of Ron as Harry's best mate and is still the nurturing friend, while Ron seems to be deemed as that jealous, silly sidekick. IMO, that is why the books made Ron and Hermione seem more equal and not the movies. Even my friends who have only watched the movies agree that they make it seem as if Hermione is more important to Harry than Ron is.

Not hating on Kloves or anything; his screenwriting is great. It's just his Hermione love is taken a bit too far.


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  #34  
Old September 20th, 2011, 5:25 pm
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

It's odd, because some movies he did brilliantly, for the most part (DH1&2, HBP, PS). He adapted the books excellently in these ones, and kept them at the right levels of 'darkness'. He trimmed what needed to be trimmed, and, especially with DH, kept the best bits of the book fully intact.

However, in GoF and CoS, his dialogue was particularly atrocious. The story came out clunky and confusing and far too lengthy. At the end of both, Voldemort/Tom was given a lengthy speech about his plans for conquering the world that works in the books, not so much the films. It just makes me cringe. Worst of all, Ron is made to look like a pathetic, temperamental idiot, whereas Hermione is made to look like a saint. Ugh.


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Old September 20th, 2011, 6:19 pm
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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It's odd, because some movies he did brilliantly, for the most part (DH1&2, HBP, PS). He adapted the books excellently in these ones, and kept them at the right levels of 'darkness'. He trimmed what needed to be trimmed, and, especially with DH, kept the best bits of the book fully intact.

However, in GoF and CoS, his dialogue was particularly atrocious. The story came out clunky and confusing and far too lengthy. At the end of both, Voldemort/Tom was given a lengthy speech about his plans for conquering the world that works in the books, not so much the films. It just makes me cringe. Worst of all, Ron is made to look like a pathetic, temperamental idiot, whereas Hermione is made to look like a saint. Ugh.
I agree 100% with you on nearly all your points except for one: the DH script. I think part one was done very well except for some humorism here and there that shouldn't have been in, but I think part 2 as a script wasn't as good as HBP or DH1: he cut some crucial things (or maybe it was done by the director) yet it is the film in which Ron seems the most ignored, he made very arguable choices and some small points were horrible (Harry snapping the wand) yet don't get me wrong I still think it is great.


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I know JKR denied it, but unless she gives me proof with a Deathly Hallows Sequel, in my head Harry and Ron are going to go back to hogwarts for their last year!
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  #36  
Old September 20th, 2011, 7:44 pm
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

I agree. I think the script for DH2 was just awful. It was unintelligible at times and boring the rest. I can not think of a single bit of interesting dialogue in the entire film. The entire film was just off, in my opinion.


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Old September 20th, 2011, 7:54 pm
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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I agree. I think the script for DH2 was just awful. It was unintelligible at times and boring the rest. I can not think of a single bit of interesting dialogue in the entire film. The entire film was just off, in my opinion.
Well not like this, I think you are exaggerating, there were some very nice parts and the canon parts were very well done. I think the prince's tale and all the forest part/king's cross were great. I think the bad parts were the parts where ron seemed an idiot or he was just left aside (i.e. Harry walking to the forest).


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I know JKR denied it, but unless she gives me proof with a Deathly Hallows Sequel, in my head Harry and Ron are going to go back to hogwarts for their last year!
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  #38  
Old September 20th, 2011, 9:46 pm
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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I agree. I think the script for DH2 was just awful. It was unintelligible at times and boring the rest. I can not think of a single bit of interesting dialogue in the entire film. The entire film was just off, in my opinion.
fair enough i respect your opinion but i think thats a bit over the top, to say not one bit of interesting dialouge the entire film is a bit exaggerated and i cannot understand were you get that from


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Old September 20th, 2011, 11:30 pm
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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Originally Posted by Lotoc_Sabbath View Post
I agree 100% with you on nearly all your points except for one: the DH script. I think part one was done very well except for some humorism here and there that shouldn't have been in, but I think part 2 as a script wasn't as good as HBP or DH1: he cut some crucial things (or maybe it was done by the director) yet it is the film in which Ron seems the most ignored, he made very arguable choices and some small points were horrible (Harry snapping the wand) yet don't get me wrong I still think it is great.
While I concur that Ron was ignored, at least he didn't appear a bumbling coward. He got a few heroic moments, right? (On a different note, I hate the way Harry hugs Hermione on his way to the Forest, and only glances at Ron... but that might be just Yates' fault.)
And I've said this before, but I like when Harry snapped the wand. *shrug*


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Old September 21st, 2011, 12:20 am
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Re: Do you think Steve Kloves did a good job?

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fair enough i respect your opinion but i think thats a bit over the top, to say not one bit of interesting dialouge the entire film is a bit exaggerated and i cannot understand were you get that from
What dialogue did you really like in the film? I mean there was dialogue that was okay and some that sort of had potential but was edited so poorly that it wasn't what it should have been. Then there was just bad dialogue which i thought there was a lot of especially in places where it really needed to be great.


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