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Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis



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  #321  
Old April 20th, 2011, 9:22 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
Why did he become a DE in the first place? Did he believe in Voldemort's ideals of pure-blood supremacy (well, we know he believed in that) and think he would be helping to create a new order in the wizarding world? Was he that much of an idealist? Was he just aligning himself with 'the biggest bully in the playground' like Pettigrew? Or did he see in loyalty to Voldemort, something which would serve his self-interest?
I think he did genuinely believe in the blood prejudice; there's plenty of evidence for that. I think he joined Voldemort for power. He shows at several points during the series that he likes power, and that he enjoys being able to influence important people and Ministry policy. And that he's not above attempting murder in order to get what he wants. I think it was the possibility of power that led him to the DEs. I wonder when/if he figured out that Voldemort wasn't going to share power with anyone?


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It seems to me that Lucius' defining characteristic is self-interest. Did he see in Voldemort a way to advance his interests which would not have been available without him? He seemed to do pretty well when Voldemort was Vapormort, so why did he need to be Voldemort's man? Or wasn't he?
Lucius found enough ways to influence the Ministry and cause harm while Voldemort was Vapourmort - the diary in CoS is a prime example. I think Lucius would have preferred to do such things of his own volition, that way he could make sure his backside was covered. I think his actions in CoS show that he doesn't have a problem with murder and destroying innocent lives, it's the possibility of getting caught that troubles him. He's smart enough to know that Voldemort isn't going to try to keep his DEs from trouble with the law.


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Originally Posted by BadEyeBella View Post
Whether he would let go of the kids later I don't know. He wasn't afraid of more powerful figures, let alone kids as witnesses.
Six kids being missing from Hogwarts for several hours would have raised questions. That wasn't going to be explained away as a figment of anyone's imagination. I think he and his DE colleagues may have killed them, to eliminate witnesses. I think it's unknown whether any eyewitnesses spoke against Lucius in the first war - but even if they did, he pleaded Imperius, and his old friend Karkaroff didn't name Lucius among the DEs.

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3) He has a huge ego. That's why Voldemort didn't kill him, but took his wand instead.
I think any witch or wizard would be at a complete loss without their wand, whether or not they were as arrogant as Lucius. I think Voldemort enjoyed seeing people squirm, and seeing them on a knife edge, not knowing when or if he would kill them.

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Originally Posted by Pecilla View Post
I think he was happy that he was gone. Well we know he did not go to Azkaban. Maybe he would get out of the country for a bit and then come back when all the hostility towards him is gone.
You mean a permanent move out of Britain, so? Because I doubt that hostility towards people like Lucius Malfoy will go away for a long time. This time, he can't hide behind the lie of "it was the Imperius Curse".


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  #322  
Old April 20th, 2011, 9:42 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by FurryDice View Post

You mean a permanent move out of Britain, so? Because I doubt that hostility towards people like Lucius Malfoy will go away for a long time. This time, he can't hide behind the lie of "it was the Imperius Curse".
It just sounds like a very "Lucius" thing to do. Get out of the country and just "generously" donate money to various charity organizations. And then come back maybe after 10 years and claim he did a bit of "soul searching" . Of course there would always be hostility towards him. But that is what I think he would do to make things better.


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  #323  
Old April 20th, 2011, 10:41 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

The freaky thing is that Lucius Malfoy was as horrible as Bellatrix and Barty Crouch, but unlike them he got away with everything TWICE. I think he's the best example of a Slytherin (as odd as that may sound given Voldemort was the series' antagonist). To be among the most highly ranked DEs, a known DE, survive both wars and NOT end up imprisoned is a huge achievement IMO. However, I think JKR spared him because he did put his family first and she wanted to highlight that.

One more thing, I wouldn't say he was a bad father. We could blame Abraxas for Lucius's political views and so on. It's never ending. He only thought Draco what his own father thought him. However, he didn't really raise Draco to be a DE. Draco was all talk, but when it came down to it he didn't have it in himself to really be a DE like Lucius did. People may disagree with his views, but I don't think it's fair to use that as an arguement against him when discussing if he was a good father or not. We know Draco loved him and he loved Draco and always took care of him (even too much!). I think he was too protective as a father, but not a bad father. Wasn't Draco treated like a little Prince by his parents? I'd say he was a good husband as well. I doubt Narcissa would defend him as fiercly as she did in HBP if he wasn't. The whole Lucius-abuses-his-family belongs to the world of fanfiction. There was nothing in the books that made me think he was in any way abusive towards his family.

As for his realtionship with Snape. I think they were friends which is odd given that Snape is everything Lucius seems to dislike. Snape is poor and he is a half-blood. Yet Sirius calls Snape Lucius' lapdog which sort of implies Snape got some sort of protection from Lucius. Lucius really didn't have a reason a befriend Snape. Snape was 3-4 years younger if I'm not mistaken, poor and half-blood. Lucius couldn't get anything from this friendship. Only Snape could profit from it. Yet, Lucius always spoke well of Snape and Narcissa was sure Snape wouldn't ditch her to Voldemort after she asked for his help because of his friendship with Lucius. I guess we don't know Lucius that well when it comes to Snape. My only conclusion, based on the books, is that Lucius really considered Snape a friend and didn't care about his blood or financial status.


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  #324  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:09 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by BadEyeBella View Post
The freaky thing is that Lucius Malfoy was as horrible as Bellatrix and Barty Crouch, but unlike them he got away with everything TWICE. I think he's the best example of a Slytherin (as odd as that may sound given Voldemort was the series' antagonist). To be among the most highly ranked DEs, a known DE, survive both wars and NOT end up imprisoned is a huge achievement IMO. However, I think JKR spared him because he did put his family first and she wanted to highlight that.

One more thing, I wouldn't say he was a bad father. We could blame Abraxas for Lucius's political views and so on. It's never ending. He only thought Draco what his own father thought him. However, he didn't really raise Draco to be a DE. Draco was all talk, but when it came down to it he didn't have it in himself to really be a DE like Lucius did. People may disagree with his views, but I don't think it's fair to use that as an arguement against him when discussing if he was a good father or not. We know Draco loved him and he loved Draco and always took care of him (even too much!). I think he was too protective as a father, but not a bad father. Wasn't Draco treated like a little Prince by his parents? I'd say he was a good husband as well. I doubt Narcissa would defend him as fiercly as she did in HBP if he wasn't. The whole Lucius-abuses-his-family belongs to the world of fanfiction. There was nothing in the books that made me think he was in any way abusive towards his family.

As for his realtionship with Snape. I think they were friends which is odd given that Snape is everything Lucius seems to dislike. Snape is poor and he is a half-blood. Yet Sirius calls Snape Lucius' lapdog which sort of implies Snape got some sort of protection from Lucius. Lucius really didn't have a reason a befriend Snape. Snape was 3-4 years younger if I'm not mistaken, poor and half-blood. Lucius couldn't get anything from this friendship. Only Snape could profit from it. Yet, Lucius always spoke well of Snape and Narcissa was sure Snape wouldn't ditch her to Voldemort after she asked for his help because of his friendship with Lucius. I guess we don't know Lucius that well when it comes to Snape. My only conclusion, based on the books, is that Lucius really considered Snape a friend and didn't care about his blood or financial status.
Brilliant post . Many people assume that Lucius was an abusive hasband towards Narcissa but I remember reading that Lucius wanted to send Draco to Durmstrang but Narcissa did not want Draco to be so far away. If he was an abusive dominating husband, he would have not listened to her and sent Draco to Drumstang anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I see Lucius as a heinous and unpleasant person but unlike Voldemort, he has redeeming qualities. But it would have been better if he received a harsher fate.

I see Snape and Lucius as friends too. Based on Narcissa's and Umbridge's comments. And also during the DH, Yaxley drew his wand when he heard the sound of a peacock while Snape didn't. Indicating Snape had been to the manor before.


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  #325  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:10 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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I think he did genuinely believe in the blood prejudice; there's plenty of evidence for that. I think he joined Voldemort for power. He shows at several points during the series that he likes power, and that he enjoys being able to influence important people and Ministry policy. And that he's not above attempting murder in order to get what he wants. I think it was the possibility of power that led him to the DEs. I wonder when/if he figured out that Voldemort wasn't going to share power with anyone?
I think you're right about him wanting power for himself. I also felt (though this might be just me) that he wasn't exactly thrilled when Voldemort came back. Maybe he'd enjoyed his influence between the Voldwars too much to want to go back to being an underling? Even the #2 underling?

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Six kids being missing from Hogwarts for several hours would have raised questions. That wasn't going to be explained away as a figment of anyone's imagination. I think he and his DE colleagues may have killed them, to eliminate witnesses. I think it's unknown whether any eyewitnesses spoke against Lucius in the first war - but even if they did, he pleaded Imperius, and his old friend Karkaroff didn't name Lucius among the DEs.
Do you think Lucius would have killed the kids himself or got the other DEs to do it? We don't see him actually kill anyone face to face, do we? (He could kind of distance himself from the diary, I think). Interesting that Karkaroff didn't mention him though. Especially if he'd been as influential among the DEs as he was in VWII.

Remembering that he had a load of Dark Magic objects at home that he was trying to sell off to Burgin in CoS, it sounds a bit as though he had been up to some nasty stuff in Voldemort's absence. Didn't Voldy says something about him keeping up the old ways in the graveyard scene? We never hear what those were as far as I can remember, but it sounds as though Lucius found Dark Magic attractive for its own sake, which perhaps was what drew him to Snape.


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  #326  
Old April 21st, 2011, 12:41 am
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

Thank you, Rodrick! I agree with you.

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Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
Do you think Lucius would have killed the kids himself or got the other DEs to do it? We don't see him actually kill anyone face to face, do we? (He could kind of distance himself from the diary, I think). Interesting that Karkaroff didn't mention him though. Especially if he'd been as influential among the DEs as he was in VWII.
I don't know why but I have hard time imagining him killing children personally or giving out such order. That's why I said in some of my previous posts that I think he'd let go of the kids if he got the prophecy (maybe obliviate them). I don't think he was lying to Harry when he told him he'd let go of them. I just can't imagine him doing that in the middle of the MoM. Like I said, I think he'd oblivate them or put them under the imperius curse or something similar (I'm sure the killing curse isn't the only effective curse one can use to keep his opponent silent, especially if that opponnent consists of a few kids who didn't even finish Hogwarts). But, on the other hand, I think Lucius is more than capable of killing and he would kill if he didn't have an alternative. IMO he's not like Draco. If we consider Barty Crouch or Bellatrix capable of murder, I think we have to cinsider Lucius capable of murder as well. Barty Crouch/Moody told Draco he could tell him quite a few horrible stories about the things his dad did (I don't remember the exact quote, sorry). So my answer is that I think Lucius is capable of murder and that he did kill in the past, but that he wouldn't kill the kids in the MoM or allow them to be killed if he had an alternative.

Regarding Voldemort's return, I think Lucius was as happy about it as Harry was. In other words, why would he be happy? He probably joined the DEs way before he married, maybe before he even reached the age of 20 (I think that because he was highly ranked and I assume you can't buy your position with Voldemort so he had to 'earn' it probably by all those horrible things Barty Crouch was talking about and that takes some time; he was 25-26 when the VWI ended), he was carefree back then, didn't have a family, but he did have plenty of free time. Now, he's 40. He's married, he has a son, he lives a comfortable life, he holds all relevant politicians in his pocket either by money or fear. Why would he want to serve Voldemort again? Why would he want to bow to Voldemort again? Why would he want to meet at the cemetery with Voldemort at midnight when he could be at home drinking brandy? Over the years his priorities must have changed and I think he wasn't happy at all with Voldemort's return. Without Voldemort around Lucius had more power than with Voldemort around. He was very young during the VWI. He was just a few years older than his own son in DH when VWI ended.

I'm just trying to understand the Diary thing. He really didn't need that little scandal. He could've found other ways to get rid of it... Unless, he really couldn't. Because after all, it was a horcrux even though he didn't know what it was. I wonder if he started writing to it and the thing started writing back to him and it terriffied him so he just thought that it would be the best if someone like Dumbledore took care of it or ended up getting blamed for the murders and getting sacked (either thing would've worked fine for him). But he couldn't personally hand it over to him without incriminating himself so he just decided to slip it in school somehow... With all those raids, he had to get rid of it somehow so nobody connects him with Voldemort again... As for muggleborns in Hogwarts, he doesn't care about them. He probably killed them in the past. Colateral victims in his eyes. I think his aim was just to get rid of the Diary and possibly get Dumbledore sacked/get him to destroy the thing. I'll have to think more over this one.


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  #327  
Old April 21st, 2011, 3:41 am
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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I'm just trying to understand the Diary thing. He really didn't need that little scandal. He could've found other ways to get rid of it... Unless, he really couldn't. Because after all, it was a horcrux even though he didn't know what it was. I wonder if he started writing to it and the thing started writing back to him and it terriffied him so he just thought that it would be the best if someone like Dumbledore took care of it or ended up getting blamed for the murders and getting sacked (either thing would've worked fine for him). But he couldn't personally hand it over to him without incriminating himself so he just decided to slip it in school somehow... With all those raids, he had to get rid of it somehow so nobody connects him with Voldemort again... As for muggleborns in Hogwarts, he doesn't care about them. He probably killed them in the past. Colateral victims in his eyes. I think his aim was just to get rid of the Diary and possibly get Dumbledore sacked/get him to destroy the thing. I'll have to think more over this one.
I didn't get the impression that Lucius was trying to get rid of the diary so much as wanting to use it as a weapon to discredit Arthur Weasley and the Weasley family, which was why he slipped it to Ginny. I seem to remember that Voldemort had told him it could be used to reopen the Chamber of Secrets and release the basilisk. I think this was what he wanted it to do and throw the school into panic. I agree that he also saw it as a means of getting rid of Dumbledore and that it was politic to get rid of what could be an incriminating object, although what the Ministry would have made of a blank diary if they'd come across it, I can't imagine. I see it as a definite downside of Lucius' personality though that he didn't care if students were killed so long as they were Muggle-borns.


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  #328  
Old April 21st, 2011, 4:27 am
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

Oh yes, he was furious because of the Muggle Protection Act, the raids and Arthur who was behind it all. He had to get rid of it I think. Isn't there a way to detect dark objects? How else would the Aurors (or whoever deals in the MoM with that) differ a random necklace from a cursed one? I think there must be a way to detect it. Otherwise, he could just turn all the things he had at home into random pieces of furniture (Slughorn style) and not sell it at B&B. That diary was pretty dark. I'd be surprised if he cared about Muggleborns. He is a 1st class DE, after all. That's what I said earlier actually. He's just like Bellatrix or Barty Crouch, he just doesn't put Voldemort before his family. He got away with everything twice. I'd love to know exactly what Barty Crouch could tell Draco about Lucius. This man didn't accidentally end up guarding Voldemort's horcrux and being in charge even after he abandoned Voldemort and destroyed his horcrux. You can't fool Voldemort, he had a good reason to trust Lucius so much. One thing, I doubt Draco knew 10% of his dad's life story.


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  #329  
Old April 22nd, 2011, 8:38 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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He's just like Bellatrix or Barty Crouch, he just doesn't put Voldemort before his family. He got away with everything twice. I'd love to know exactly what Barty Crouch could tell Draco about Lucius. This man didn't accidentally end up guarding Voldemort's horcrux and being in charge even after he abandoned Voldemort and destroyed his horcrux. You can't fool Voldemort, he had a good reason to trust Lucius so much. One thing, I doubt Draco knew 10% of his dad's life story.
Yes, why did Voldemort feel he could trust Lucius with his Diary? Why did he want him to have it at all? Was he thinking that Malfoy Manor would be a good hiding place for a horcrux? Seems unlikely as the Ministry don't seem to have problems raiding it later on. And Voldemort wasn't expecting to be Harryed so he would have meant Lucius to hang on to the Diary till he needed it. Was he just expressing his trust in young Lucius to bind him closer? (Didn't really work, did it?) Was he grooming Lucius to be his second in command? Lucius was quite young at the time - in his 20s - so he had been chosen above people who had been DEs for years. Lucius showed leadership qualitiies later in life, so perhaps he did then.

I wonder what Lucius made of it when he got the Diary back with a great hole through it??


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  #330  
Old April 23rd, 2011, 10:08 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
Yes, why did Voldemort feel he could trust Lucius with his Diary? Why did he want him to have it at all? Was he thinking that Malfoy Manor would be a good hiding place for a horcrux? Seems unlikely as the Ministry don't seem to have problems raiding it later on. And Voldemort wasn't expecting to be Harryed so he would have meant Lucius to hang on to the Diary till he needed it. Was he just expressing his trust in young Lucius to bind him closer? (Didn't really work, did it?) Was he grooming Lucius to be his second in command? Lucius was quite young at the time - in his 20s - so he had been chosen above people who had been DEs for years. Lucius showed leadership qualitiies later in life, so perhaps he did then.

I wonder what Lucius made of it when he got the Diary back with a great hole through it??
Voldemort didnt really care THAT much about his horcruxes. Dumbledore explains this actually, that the diary was more of a tool than anything else. Personally, i dont think Voldy was that fussed about it. Sure he was hopping mad when Lucius told him it was destroyed, but Lucius survived the anger. I think that tells us that Voldy may have intended the diary to return to Hogwarts at some point. Considering the diary was in fact a way to open the Chamber. Perhaps Voldy was just more angry that Lucius acted on his own accord regarding it.

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As for his realtionship with Snape. I think they were friends which is odd given that Snape is everything Lucius seems to dislike. Snape is poor and he is a half-blood. Yet Sirius calls Snape Lucius' lapdog which sort of implies Snape got some sort of protection from Lucius. Lucius really didn't have a reason a befriend Snape. Snape was 3-4 years younger if I'm not mistaken, poor and half-blood. Lucius couldn't get anything from this friendship. Only Snape could profit from it. Yet, Lucius always spoke well of Snape and Narcissa was sure Snape wouldn't ditch her to Voldemort after she asked for his help because of his friendship with Lucius. I guess we don't know Lucius that well when it comes to Snape. My only conclusion, based on the books, is that Lucius really considered Snape a friend and didn't care about his blood or financial status.
My opinion is that Lucius recognized that Snape wasnt just any ordinary wizard and was capable of a great deal. Not only that, but Snape was a half-blood who had a rather awful muggle father. Perhaps Lucius thought he could "brainwash" Snape in thinking that muggles and the like were simply pigs using his father as an example. Of course theres nothing to state they even discussed Snape's father. Perhaps in the earlier days, Snape acted as something of a yes-man for Lucius and other prospective Death Eaters. But since Snape probably got very high marks at Hogwarts, Lucius may have thought that this was a person to have on your side. Perhaps a friendship evolved from that and a great deal of trust. Snape after all, never really incriminated the Malfoys at all. Lucius may have asked Snape to "look after" Draco in a way.


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  #331  
Old April 25th, 2011, 2:05 am
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

Just going through this thread.... I noticed interesting comments concerning what happened to Lucius after the DH. A lot of people say that his reputation was destroyed and maybe even some of his money was taken for funds in rebuilding the school. But I was wondering about the damage to his mental health. I remember Sirius saying how a few weeks in Azkaban can a person go crazy. The whole Shack incident in DH must have also been horrible. So do you guys think maybe he will never regain his mental health? Imo that is much worse than his reputation ruined. I reckon he would need years of therapy to come get his mental health back. Though as much as I feel sorry for him... you can't honestly say that he didn't deserve it.


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  #332  
Old April 25th, 2011, 2:15 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Barty Crouch/Moody told Draco he could tell him quite a few horrible stories about the things his dad did (I don't remember the exact quote, sorry)
But in the book it was only: "Oh yeah?" said Moody quietly, limping forward a few steps, the dull clunk of his wooden leg echoing around the hall. "Well, I know your father of old, boy... . You tell him Moody's keeping a close eye on his son... you tell him that from me... . Now, your Head of House'll be Snape, will it?"
He told about horrible stories in movie.


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  #333  
Old April 25th, 2011, 8:33 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

@Fotida
Thanks for the quotes. It's been a while since I read GoF, I must've confused it with the movie.

@Pecilla
I must say I didn't think about that before. He was broken in DH and that could be at least partially thanks to Azkaban. I was under the impression he rellied on Narcissa in DH, I didn't expect that. But on the other hand, if I'm not mistaken the Dementors were under Voldemort's control at that point so it was probably a bit easier for him than it was for Sirius or Bellatrix. I think the whole thing was more traumatic for the Lestrange brothers than for Lucius. They spent 15 years in Azkaban and within a few months they were imprisoned again. I could be wrong, but maybe what came after Azkaban (humilliation in his own home) was even more traumatic for a man who cares about appearance and power as much as Lucius does. I don't think Lucius' mental health was as damanged as Sirius' was and he strikes as someone who would at least pretend (successfully) that everything is okay.

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
My opinion is that Lucius recognized that Snape wasnt just any ordinary wizard and was capable of a great deal. Not only that, but Snape was a half-blood who had a rather awful muggle father. Perhaps Lucius thought he could "brainwash" Snape in thinking that muggles and the like were simply pigs using his father as an example. Of course theres nothing to state they even discussed Snape's father. Perhaps in the earlier days, Snape acted as something of a yes-man for Lucius and other prospective Death Eaters. But since Snape probably got very high marks at Hogwarts, Lucius may have thought that this was a person to have on your side. Perhaps a friendship evolved from that and a great deal of trust. Snape after all, never really incriminated the Malfoys at all. Lucius may have asked Snape to "look after" Draco in a way.
I'm not sure. I can see a 40-year-old Lucius Malfoy becoming Snape's friend for the reasons you pointed out, but I'm not sure a 14-year-old Lucius was that smart. He was just a kid back then. I don't know. I think making fun of Snape would be more likely (the way Draco treats Hermione who's smart but not a pureblood) than becoming his friend because he might have some use of him in the future. What if they really were just friends? ATM that sounds most likely to me.


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  #334  
Old April 25th, 2011, 10:45 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by BadEyeBella View Post
People may disagree with his views, but I don't think it's fair to use that as an arguement against him when discussing if he was a good father or not.
IMO, it is an indication that he was a bad father - he raised his son to believe he was entitled to power over life and death of others. I think that's tremendously bad parenting.

Plus, Lucius' actions as a parent are contradictory to his aims - he wants Draco to do well, and is unimpressed that Draco was beaten by a Muggleborn. Yet, he spoils Draco and that hinders the development of independence and skills to achieve - he buys Draco's place on the Quidditch team, for example.

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I'd say he was a good husband as well. I doubt Narcissa would defend him as fiercly as she did in HBP if he wasn't.
I think he treated Narcissa well. In addition to your example, I think she would not have put up with ill-treatment from a partner - she was raised to think the Black family were practically royal, so she wouldn't have accepted anything less than respect from her partner, or what she considered respect.


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Originally Posted by Rodrick View Post
And also during the DH, Yaxley drew his wand when he heard the sound of a peacock while Snape didn't. Indicating Snape had been to the manor before.
Good point, that makes sense. On the other hand, the DEs were using Malfoy Manor as a base. It could also be that Yaxley was just more jumpy than Snape.

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Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
I think you're right about him wanting power for himself. I also felt (though this might be just me) that he wasn't exactly thrilled when Voldemort came back. Maybe he'd enjoyed his influence between the Voldwars too much to want to go back to being an underling? Even the #2 underling?
I think he wasn't too happy, either. While Voldemort had been in exile, Lucius had been able to harm others at his leisure. He could do as he pleased, and not have to answer to anyone. He also knew that he was more concerned with covering his trail than Voldemort would be.

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I don't know why but I have hard time imagining him killing children personally or giving out such order. That's why I said in some of my previous posts that I think he'd let go of the kids if he got the prophecy (maybe obliviate them). I don't think he was lying to Harry when he told him he'd let go of them. I just can't imagine him doing that in the middle of the MoM.
I can't imagine Lucius having any qualms about murdering children. He had no qualms about it in CoS. If the students were obliviated, there would still be questions as to where they had been when they disappeared from Hogwarts. Whether they lived or died, questions would be raised that could lead back to the DEs. A group of bodies wouldn't be able to tell Dumbledore or the Aurors anything.


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He probably joined the DEs way before he married, maybe before he even reached the age of 20 (I think that because he was highly ranked and I assume you can't buy your position with Voldemort so he had to 'earn' it probably by all those horrible things Barty Crouch was talking about and that takes some time; he was 25-26 when the VWI ended), he was carefree back then, didn't have a family, but he did have plenty of free time.
Draco was born during the war, just as Harry and Neville were. Lucius' life during the first was wasn't entirely that of a single person.

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Yes, why did Voldemort feel he could trust Lucius with his Diary? Why did he want him to have it at all? Was he thinking that Malfoy Manor would be a good hiding place for a horcrux? Seems unlikely as the Ministry don't seem to have problems raiding it later on. And Voldemort wasn't expecting to be Harryed so he would have meant Lucius to hang on to the Diary till he needed it. Was he just expressing his trust in young Lucius to bind him closer?
"Harryed" -

It's been suggested that Voldemort gave Bellatrix the cup because the prestige of an old wizarding family's vault appealed to him. Perhaps the prestige of keeping a horcrux in the Manor of a wealthy old family was appealing?

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
Voldemort didnt really care THAT much about his horcruxes. Dumbledore explains this actually, that the diary was more of a tool than anything else. Personally, i dont think Voldy was that fussed about it.
I think Voldemort did care about his horcruxes - they were the key to his immortality. His reaction to Harry's break-in at Gringotts suggests that he cared about keeping them intact, too. The diary was intended as a weapon, though, which is what tipped Dumbledore off about multiple horcruxes.


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  #335  
Old April 25th, 2011, 10:48 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by BadEyeBella View Post
@Pecilla
I must say I didn't think about that before. He was broken in DH and that could be at least partially thanks to Azkaban. I was under the impression he rellied on Narcissa in DH, I didn't expect that. But on the other hand, if I'm not mistaken the Dementors were under Voldemort's control at that point so it was probably a bit easier for him than it was for Sirius or Bellatrix. I think the whole thing was more traumatic for the Lestrange brothers than for Lucius. They spent 15 years in Azkaban and within a few months they were imprisoned again. I could be wrong, but maybe what came after Azkaban (humilliation in his own home) was even more traumatic for a man who cares about appearance and power as much as Lucius does. I don't think Lucius' mental health was as damanged as Sirius' was and he strikes as someone who would at least pretend (successfully) that everything is okay.
I'm with you on this. I don't think Lucius spent enough time in Azkaban for the Dementors to have had a permanent effect on his mental health. I'm sure it was a shocking experience for him, especially as he'd managed to keep out when Voldemort fell. I think, for a man like him, having Voldemort using his home, mocking him in front of the other DEs, taking his wand, was so humiliating he didn't know how to react and became dependent on Narcissa. He was a broken man in the sense that his beautiful life had fallen apart, but not IMO through traumatic mental illness.

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I'm not sure. I can see a 40-year-old Lucius Malfoy becoming Snape's friend for the reasons you pointed out, but I'm not sure a 14-year-old Lucius was that smart. He was just a kid back then. I don't know. I think making fun of Snape would be more likely (the way Draco treats Hermione who's smart but not a pureblood) than becoming his friend because he might have some use of him in the future. What if they really were just friends? ATM that sounds most likely to me.
As Lucius was a prefect when Snape began school, that makes him 4-6 years older, which is a big gap in school terms. Lily, when accusing Snape of hanging round with potential DEs didn't mention Lucius so I assume he'd already left school. It would help if we knew when Lucius became a DE as Voldemort might have asked him to look out for likely candidates and Snape's fascination and expertise with the Dark Arts would have been quite a recommendation. But we don't know anything about that, and I'm inclined to think their friendship is more likely to have begun when they were DEs together in Voldwar I. They were both very accomplished wizards, both trusted by Voldemort, and probably had more in common with each other than they did with the other DEs.

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Originally Posted by FurryDice View Post

It's been suggested that Voldemort gave Bellatrix the cup because the prestige of an old wizarding family's vault appealed to him. Perhaps the prestige of keeping a horcrux in the Manor of a wealthy old family was appealing?
Yes, but the vault at Gringotts was protected by Gringotts security which included a dragon plus at least 2 extra curses put on it (the heat one and the duplicating one whose names I've forgotten). What was protecting the horcrux at Malfoy Manor? Dobby?


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  #336  
Old April 26th, 2011, 4:19 am
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
As Lucius was a prefect when Snape began school, that makes him 4-6 years older, which is a big gap in school terms. Lily, when accusing Snape of hanging round with potential DEs didn't mention Lucius so I assume he'd already left school.
Yes, of course he had. If he was a Prefect, he was at least a 5th year, so he would be gone by Sev and Lily's fifth year.

I do think Lucius befriended Severus at school. Sirius mentions Severus was in a "Slytherin gang" at school, that included older students such as Bella and her husband. They seem even less likely to be friends with him!

Also, Lucius's Head of House was Slughorn, so Lucius sw the Slug Club in action. This could give him the idea that bothering with talented kids could prove useful down the line.

Sirius (OotP, "Occlumency") tries to rile Severus up by referring to him as "Lucius's lapdog". Sirius could have known about a possible friendship between those two that started at school, but not about one that started later.

And finally, I think this is hinted at in "The Prince's Tale" when Lucius welcomes Snape and invited him to sit next to him at the House table.


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  #337  
Old April 26th, 2011, 5:41 am
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
Yes, but the vault at Gringotts was protected by Gringotts security which included a dragon plus at least 2 extra curses put on it (the heat one and the duplicating one whose names I've forgotten). What was protecting the horcrux at Malfoy Manor? Dobby?
If I recall correctly, Malfoy Manor was protected at least at the perimeter. There were huge iron gates, and you couldn't get in unless you had the Dark Mark on your arm. Without it, you had to wait to be allowed entrance.

There is also mention of hidden vaults or somesuch where Malfoy hid his Dark Arts objects -- anything that would incriminate him if the Ministry came to call. Harry tries to tip off Arthur Weasley that Lucius has some things hidden, and I think he even overhears Draco telling someone about it and passes on the information of how to find the hiding place. The Ministry did send people to search Malfoy Manor at least once, and probably more than once, and they did not find anything to send Lucius to jail over until he broke into the Department of Mysteries at the end of OotP.

I think we have pieces of evidence enough to conclude that Malfoy had the ability to securely hide the Riddle Diary Horcrux well enough until he decided to implement his diabolical plan in Harry's 2nd year.


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  #338  
Old April 26th, 2011, 5:26 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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If I recall correctly, Malfoy Manor was protected at least at the perimeter. There were huge iron gates, and you couldn't get in unless you had the Dark Mark on your arm. Without it, you had to wait to be allowed entrance.

There is also mention of hidden vaults or somesuch where Malfoy hid his Dark Arts objects -- anything that would incriminate him if the Ministry came to call. Harry tries to tip off Arthur Weasley that Lucius has some things hidden, and I think he even overhears Draco telling someone about it and passes on the information of how to find the hiding place. The Ministry did send people to search Malfoy Manor at least once, and probably more than once, and they did not find anything to send Lucius to jail over until he broke into the Department of Mysteries at the end of OotP.

I think we have pieces of evidence enough to conclude that Malfoy had the ability to securely hide the Riddle Diary Horcrux well enough until he decided to implement his diabolical plan in Harry's 2nd year.
You're right! I cede the point!


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  #339  
Old April 26th, 2011, 10:32 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by arithmancer View Post
Yes, of course he had. If he was a Prefect, he was at least a 5th year, so he would be gone by Sev and Lily's fifth year.

I do think Lucius befriended Severus at school. Sirius mentions Severus was in a "Slytherin gang" at school, that included older students such as Bella and her husband. They seem even less likely to be friends with him!

Also, Lucius's Head of House was Slughorn, so Lucius sw the Slug Club in action. This could give him the idea that bothering with talented kids could prove useful down the line.

Sirius (OotP, "Occlumency") tries to rile Severus up by referring to him as "Lucius's lapdog". Sirius could have known about a possible friendship between those two that started at school, but not about one that started later.

And finally, I think this is hinted at in "The Prince's Tale" when Lucius welcomes Snape and invited him to sit next to him at the House table.
I think that is logical. After all, Lucius was a prefect, he could have shown Snape the ropes of how things are in Slytherin. Id imagine it was a bit like Harry and Percy (only without Lucius having a younger sibling who was Snape's best friend.) where Lucius was more than civil to Snape at the Slytherin Table and common room.
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But we don't know anything about that, and I'm inclined to think their friendship is more likely to have begun when they were DEs together in Voldwar I. They were both very accomplished wizards, both trusted by Voldemort, and probably had more in common with each other than they did with the other DEs.
lol Voldwar. Well, i think the REAL friendship between those two happened then. Both out of school (Lucius most likely married by then) and both in the same circle.


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  #340  
Old April 26th, 2011, 11:48 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

I don't know where to put this but...

If both Bellatrix and Lucius had Voldemort's capabilities and powers, based on canon evidence, who do you think would have made the most dangerous dark lord/ dark lady?

I am interested in the responses. I apologize if this is in the wrong section.


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