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Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows



 
 
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  #1001  
Old April 4th, 2011, 10:06 pm
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Re: Deathly Hallows Part 1: Romantic moments & that scene...

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Originally Posted by Chocoron View Post
I refuse to believe that she wrote that two moments in the book that someone previously mentioned (the one where Hermione ruffles harrys hair) with the intention of or the possibility of an undercurrent b/w H/Hr. I think she has just sort of, given in on the idea of a different view existing, and she just doesn't want to take them on/ or offend them by imposing her own. Which is ok though, it pains me a little, because I believe the author should have the final word and should be fiercely possessive of their characters, but I guess this is a more selfless thing to do (or selfish if the motives are purely pecuniary, but since I love Rowling with all my heart I will not believe this to be true ).
I agree with this. Ever since her interview back in 2005 where JKR practically called Harry/Hermione shippers "delusional" she has been unwilling to say anything remotely controversial (as H/Hr fans got very upset after that interview). JKR doesn't want to alienate any H/Hr fans and as a result in interviews she no longer dismisses them entirely in order to keep them happy.

Unfortunately due to her not wanting to offend anyone JKR doesn't stand up for her work as much as i think she should but i guess that is her decision.


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  #1002  
Old April 4th, 2011, 10:18 pm
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Re: Deathly Hallows Part 1: Romantic moments & that scene...

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Originally Posted by GingerCat1 View Post
I agree with this. Ever since her interview back in 2005 where JKR practically called Harry/Hermione shippers "delusional" she has been unwilling to say anything remotely controversial (as H/Hr fans got very upset after that interview). JKR doesn't want to alienate any H/Hr fans and as a result in interviews she no longer dismisses them entirely in order to keep them happy.

Unfortunately due to her not wanting to offend anyone JKR doesn't stand up for her work as much as i think she should but i guess that is her decision.
Going as far as saying "It could have happened definitely" is taking it a bit too far in my opinion. I was a little upset when I read that, primarily because I couldn't decide if she has suddenly genuinely seen her characters in a new light, or if she was just taking the easy way out. Her interview sounds like its an attempt to please all fans (Harry/Ginny, R/Hr, H/Hr, everyone is given their due), but I think Kloves has had quite an influence on how she interprets Harry and Hermione too. He has always been a H/Hr shipper, he even said he thought these two were better suited in a number of interviews, in fact it shows a little in the scripts too. I think she might now just believe that as two normal teenagers, that emotional spectrum could exist between H/Hr, even if she never intended for it to exist in the books. I don't like this change of her opinion, because I loved all her R/Hr rambles, and I LOVE the way she has written their relationship over the course of seven books. I think its a beautiful and real love story, and I think she had immense amount of fun writing it too, it really does show. But, I guess somewhere you start believing that your work is bigger than your own ideas, which is not wrong really, though it upsets me nonetheless because having Jo as a shipper was awesome .
She could maybe publish the Silver Doe in Hermione's and the Battle of Hogwarts in Ron's POV's just to sort of spread more good cheer in the fandom .


  #1003  
Old April 4th, 2011, 10:25 pm
GingerCat1  Undisclosed.gif GingerCat1 is offline
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

I really hope that JKR isn't beginning to believe the rubbish that Kloves, Heyman and Yates have been saying. I hope she is stronger than that and no matter what anyone else says she maintains her convictions about her characters and her universe and doesn't let anyone change her mind.

There were a million signs that Ron and Hermione had feelings for one another and Harry and Hermione did not and it would have been beyond ridiculous for Harry and Hermione to end up together in the final book.


  #1004  
Old April 4th, 2011, 10:38 pm
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

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Originally Posted by GingerCat1 View Post
I really hope that JKR isn't beginning to believe the rubbish that Kloves, Heyman and Yates have been saying. I hope she is stronger than that and no matter what anyone else says she maintains her convictions about her characters and her universe and doesn't let anyone change her mind.

There were a million signs that Ron and Hermione had feelings for one another and Harry and Hermione did not and it would have been beyond ridiculous for Harry and Hermione to end up together in the final book.
That goes without saying! I don't think she even for a moment believe that she messed up with R/Hr. She totally stands by them still I think, she LOVES them in fact. I just think where she earlier could never understand how people could see Harry/Hermione together, and she was very vocal about it, she now seems to accept that such an interpretation can exist. I don't know if its either because she just wants peace in her world and doesnt want any more hate mail, or if its because some of her close friends (Kloves being one) have sort of explained to her how her writing itself can be interpreted to give credence to the other viewpoint too. That is the only shift in stand she has had. Which I still dont understand, I mean, in the books I just don't see how anyone could ever consider Harry and Hermione, irrespective of how compatible they seem to be, because I think passion trumps compatibility anyday, and passion breeds compatibility in the long run anyway.
I have read a few other posts in the interim, and I agree with the view that the H/Hr though hinted at in the movies till now (primarily, i still believe, to keep all sections of the fan base happy) they have also established it well and good that Ron and Hermione are it. Its in subtle moments that aren't loud, but are still focussed upon. Which was my one gripe with the actors actually; I think Emma outdid herself in DH1, i mean, my god. I was shocked to see her act like she did, I thought it was a brilliant performance, and same goes for Rupert and even Dan did better than he usually does. But my one issue is, that Rupert and Emma never weave in their characters affection and comfort in the scenes that arent focussed on them, or in scenes where they haven't been asked to project a certain emotion. What I mean to say is, that if you are playing two characters for over a decade, and you know them really well, then in your performance as those characters you go beyond the script and embody them in every scene. I feel there should a continuous comfort that should flow between Ron and Hermione which I don't see, unless they are actively acting towards it, in underplayed scenes, but scripted scenes nonetheless.


  #1005  
Old April 4th, 2011, 10:43 pm
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

None of us is JK. Please leave out speculations about the author's motivation and stick to the topic of romance in the films and what it means for you. Thanks!


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  #1006  
Old April 4th, 2011, 11:31 pm
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

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Originally Posted by Chocoron View Post
But my one issue is, that Rupert and Emma never weave in their characters affection and comfort in the scenes that arent focussed on them, or in scenes where they haven't been asked to project a certain emotion. What I mean to say is, that if you are playing two characters for over a decade, and you know them really well, then in your performance as those characters you go beyond the script and embody them in every scene. I feel there should a continuous comfort that should flow between Ron and Hermione which I don't see, unless they are actively acting towards it, in underplayed scenes, but scripted scenes nonetheless.
I know what you mean.

I've felt that Rupert and Emma have never quite had the spark they had in the first three films. A particular favourite of mine is when Hermione tells Ron she has been doing some light reading before slamming a HUGE book on the table. Ron sarcastically says something along the lines of, "This is light reading!?" and Emma gives him the most terrifying, Hermione glare. It's totally Ron and Hermione.

I also liked it in PS, when Harry leaves hospital wing to find Hermione and Ron in the middle of a conversation and in PoA when Harry meets them to go to school and again, they are in the middle of a conversation. I always felt that during the mundane days when someone isn't trying to kill Harry, that Hermione and Ron were particularly chatty and that Harry often just listened. I don't think this has quite come across in the films in a long time. I watched HBP and counted the amount of times Ron and Hermione talk directly to each other. Not to Harry, whilst the other listens. To each other. I only got so far as their estrangement and they had a total of 18 lines of dialogue BETWEEN them.

The rest was spoken to the other, through Harry.

So it isn't just Emma and Rupert's fault. It's something wrong in the script.

And I've always felt Ron/Hermione scenes or bits are treated very distantly by the directors (except Columbus strangely who I'm not actually a fan of). That they should put more emphasis on their facial expressions, reactions and making them tell the scene.


  #1007  
Old April 4th, 2011, 11:37 pm
GingerCat1  Undisclosed.gif GingerCat1 is offline
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

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Originally Posted by Shaun_MT View Post
And I've always felt Ron/Hermione scenes or bits are treated very distantly by the directors (except Columbus strangely who I'm not actually a fan of). That they should put more emphasis on their facial expressions, reactions and making them tell the scene.
Oddly enough in OotP there were quite a lot of moments between Ron and Hermione where they look at each other in a way that goes a bit beyond friendship but they really are blink and you'll miss it kind of moments.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...oenix_1446.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...oenix_1446.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...oenix_0941.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...oenix_1636.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...oenix_0810.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...oenix_2037.jpg



Last edited by GingerCat1; April 4th, 2011 at 11:43 pm.
  #1008  
Old April 5th, 2011, 12:03 am
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

I've always supported the canon relationships in the HP series. Ron and Hermione was so obvious. Harry and Ginny came as a suprise, but a nice surprise.

I knew going into the film franchise that not everything in the movies would be the same. And maybe it's because at the time the books had not all been written. No one knew how the story would end, so they took things in their own direction, which could have mislead certain fans who only follow the movies.

That said, I must admit that I didn't hate the dance. I liked it.

Maybe it's because I'm so invested in the trio and those 3 relationships. But I could never see the Harry+Hermione relationship as anything other than platonic. While I will never ship H/Hr romantically, I thought it was a beautiful scene in the book when Harry admitted to loving Hermione like a sister. He's always longed for a family of his own, and Ron and Hermione are the closest thing he's ever had to a brother and sister. So for him to say that and then to follow with Ron and him hugging felt very fulfilling.

I liked the dance. Harry was just trying to cheer Hermione up because she was missing Ron. That's a very human thing to do. If I saw my friend upset I'd try to make them feel better. It also showed that while they may have been having fun at that moment, eventually reality sunk back in, and we saw that Hermione still needed Ron. They both did.

The only thing I dislike is when the dance gets misinterpreted and made out to be some kind of 'will they, won't they?' moment. That's not what it was at all. I don't care what Mr Yates says. He may have wanted it to be portrayed like that, but the actors know their own characters better than he does. Even Kloves didn't write the scene with any sort of "tension" in the script.



Last edited by Warlock27; April 5th, 2011 at 12:07 am.
  #1009  
Old April 5th, 2011, 12:05 am
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

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Originally Posted by Warlock27 View Post
Maybe it's because I'm so invested in the trio and those 3 relationships. But I could never see the Harry+Hermione relationship as anything other than platonic. While I will never ship H/Hr romantically, I thought it was a beautiful scene in the book when Harry admitted to loving Hermione like a sister. He's always longed for a family of his own, and Ron and Hermione are the closest thing he's ever had to a brother and sister. So for him to say that and then to follow with Ron and him hugging felt very fulfilling.
The thing is that i don't think i would really have had a problem with the dance if the line about Harry thinking of Hermione like a sister was also included. It was a combination of that line being dropped and the dance being included which has really annoyed me.


  #1010  
Old April 5th, 2011, 12:20 am
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

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Originally Posted by GingerCat1 View Post
Oddly enough in OotP there were quite a lot of moments between Ron and Hermione where they look at each other in a way that goes a bit beyond friendship but they really are blink and you'll miss it kind of moments.
I don't mind the subtlety. It wouldn't be prudent to make Ron and Hermione bits too in your face. But these are just too slight. I'm not saying I want long lingering shots, but I just want more interaction.

But then again I didn't like a lot of the Hermione and Ron interactions in OotP. It's just too tame and lifeless for me. I didn't like their duel (Ron would never underestimate Hermione because she's a girl, in fact he's chuffed to bits in the book when he beats her because he knows how good she is), the bit where Ron nags her to do his homework or their reactions to Harry kissing Cho. I understand in the book they weren't as fierce with each other because they were supporting Harry, but in the movie they don't make that clear.

My favourite Ron and Hermione bit (actually I don't think Hermione says anything) is when Ron is stuffing his face in the dinner hall and I think Ginny tells him he's disgusting (should have been Hermione) and Ron says so incredibly defiantly, "What?! I'm hungry!". This is my case, the bit should be kept between Ron and Hermione, but Ginny is there for no reason and it is shot in one take over Hermione's shoulder so we don't get any reaction shots of her. So the scene doesn't feel between them.

And I also liked the deleted scene (I'm sure it's OotP and not GoF) where Ron tries to get Harry to go to the leaving feast but can't and he goes downstairs where Hermione is waiting, shakes his head and Hermione kinda deflates. It didn't feel as if Hermione and Ron were waiting for a cue, it felt as if they had talked and made this plan and been living lives off camera, doing their thing whilst not in scenes y'know? Whereas in other scenes it feels Hermione and Ron don't do anything until Harry shows up. Like they go into some sort of freeze.


  #1011  
Old April 5th, 2011, 12:25 am
Warlock27  Undisclosed.gif Warlock27 is offline
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

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Originally Posted by Shaun_MT View Post
My favourite Ron and Hermione bit (actually I don't think Hermione says anything) is when Ron is stuffing his face in the dinner hall and I think Ginny tells him he's disgusting (should have been Hermione) and Ron says so incredibly defiantly, "What?! I'm hungry!".
Actually, I believe it's Hermione who says "do you ever stop eating?" in that scene, while it's Ginny who doesn't say anything.

Yeah, I'm almost positive that it's Hermione who has the line.



Last edited by Warlock27; April 5th, 2011 at 12:34 am.
  #1012  
Old April 5th, 2011, 12:28 am
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

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Originally Posted by Shaun_MT View Post
I don't mind the subtlety. It wouldn't be prudent to make Ron and Hermione bits too in your face. But these are just too slight. I'm not saying I want long lingering shots, but I just want more interaction.

But then again I didn't like a lot of the Hermione and Ron interactions in OotP. It's just too tame and lifeless for me. I didn't like their duel (Ron would never underestimate Hermione because she's a girl, in fact he's chuffed to bits in the book when he beats her because he knows how good she is), the bit where Ron nags her to do his homework or their reactions to Harry kissing Cho. I understand in the book they weren't as fierce with each other because they were supporting Harry, but in the movie they don't make that clear.
I agree with everything you wrote. Unfortunately the scene where Ron is beaten by Hermione was played for laughs as they (the makers of OotP) clearly thought it would be funny to have Hermione kick Ron's arse. Ron being used as comic foil is certainly not something that is new with the movies.

As for Ron/Hermione moments well Kloves is a huge Hermione fan and doesn't seem to like Ron that much so it doesn't surprise me that the amount of moments they get together is limited. If asked Kloves would probably say that the movies are about Harry and he is merely reflecting that but i think the truth of the matter is Kloves doesn't like the Ron/Hermione pairing.

I do think if given the opportunity Rupert and Emma could nail the romantic tension between Ron and Hermione.


  #1013  
Old April 5th, 2011, 12:38 am
steph4harry  Undisclosed.gif steph4harry is offline
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

I've never read the books, but Ron and Hermione definitely are much better than Harry and Hermione. I agree with the whole it was just a what if moment. Did seem a bit silly that there wasnt as much intimacy depicted between Ron and Hermione though...

who else really fancies rupert grint!? just me? cool x


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Last edited by steph4harry; April 5th, 2011 at 12:43 am.
  #1014  
Old April 5th, 2011, 12:46 am
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

The skipping stone scene looked more like BTS. And that scene would have been much more jarring in the film than the dance could've ever been. You couldn't just have Ron seemingly enjoying himself after being sulky in the exodus montage and right before the fight where he is just angry all over the place.

The dancing scene isn't jarring because they start out sad, try and get a bit happy, but then they end up being sad again at the end of it. Context. The Ron/Hermione skipping stones scene did not have that and would've made little to no sense. I am glad it was cut.


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  #1015  
Old April 5th, 2011, 12:49 am
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

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Originally Posted by weasley9 View Post
The skipping stone scene looked more like BTS. And that scene would have been much more jarring in the film than the dance could've ever been. You couldn't just have Ron seemingly enjoying himself after being sulky in the exodus montage and right before the fight where he is just angry all over the place.
The scene however would have worked great after the trio get to Shell Cottage and begin planning their bank robbery. I could easily see after a long day of planning Ron and Hermione wandering off to the water and Ron teaching Hermione how to throw stones. It would be the perfect time as well because at that point Hermione had completely forgiven Ron for leaving and Ron had found a new level of maturity and he also felt a bit more confident about his potential/developing relationship with Hermione.


  #1016  
Old April 5th, 2011, 12:55 am
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

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Originally Posted by GingerCat1 View Post
I agree with everything you wrote. Unfortunately the scene where Ron is beaten by Hermione was played for laughs as they (the makers of OotP) clearly thought it would be funny to have Hermione kick Ron's arse. Ron being used as comic foil is certainly not something that is new with the movies.

As for Ron/Hermione moments well Kloves is a huge Hermione fan and doesn't seem to like Ron that much so it doesn't surprise me that the amount of moments they get together is limited. If asked Kloves would probably say that the movies are about Harry and he is merely reflecting that but i think the truth of the matter is Kloves doesn't like the Ron/Hermione pairing.

I do think if given the opportunity Rupert and Emma could nail the romantic tension between Ron and Hermione.
I don't mind it that Hermione kicks Ron arse. That's what would have happened. But they just got the dynamics wrong. Ron is the sort of person who would have joked that he would take it easy on Hermione because she's a girl, not sincerely mean it. They could have made their verbal sparring funny without making an incredibly easy joke such as boy underestimates girl, boy gets arse kicked by girl, boy pretends he let girl win. Ha ha ha.

Kloves doesn't seem to get Ron. He doesn't seem to see the value of him as a character. He can't seem to think of funny things for him to say or do and most strikingly he can't think of ways to make Ron and emotionally supportive character. All of Harry's emotional scenes with one of the trio involve Hermione most prominently.

I think Rupert and Emma can nail the sexual tension, that stone skipping scene proved it even though they improvised the most un-Ron and un-Hermione way to say their dialogue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock27 View Post
Actually, I believe it's Hermione who says "don't you ever stop eating?" in that scene, while it's Ginny who doesn't say anything.

Yeah, I'm almost positive that it's Hermione who has the line.
I did think it was Hermione and then I did a playback in my head and heard Ginny's voice. But yes, it is Hermione. Apologies.


  #1017  
Old April 5th, 2011, 2:26 am
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

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Originally Posted by Shaun_MT View Post
I don't mind it that Hermione kicks Ron arse. That's what would have happened. But they just got the dynamics wrong. Ron is the sort of person who would have joked that he would take it easy on Hermione because she's a girl, not sincerely mean it. They could have made their verbal sparring funny without making an incredibly easy joke such as boy underestimates girl, boy gets arse kicked by girl, boy pretends he let girl win. Ha ha ha.
Agreed. From memory in the book Ron was thrilled that he managed to beat Hermione at all. I think they squared up around 3 times and Hermione won twice but Ron was still over the moon that he one once. He certainly didn't seem upset that Hermione beat him more than he beat her and i never got the impression Ron ever thought Hermione needed protecting because Ron has always been well aware of how talented Hermione is. I (like you) didn't like how in the movie Ron seemed to believe he needed to go easy on Hermione because Ron in the books is not like that at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun_MT View Post
Kloves doesn't seem to get Ron. He doesn't seem to see the value of him as a character. He can't seem to think of funny things for him to say or do and most strikingly he can't think of ways to make Ron and emotionally supportive character. All of Harry's emotional scenes with one of the trio involve Hermione most prominently.
Kloves doesn't get Ron at all. Kloves has admitted that Hermione is his favorite character and he does seem to enjoy giving her a larger role in the movies than she has had in the books giving Hermione lines from other characters, removing her negative personality traits and giving her new scenes with Harry that were not in the books.

I read the original script written by Kloves for DH1 and i was amazed at how often Kloves refers to Hermione as "beautiful" in the script. It was boarding on being completely absurd and it is obvious he has a huge crush on Hermione.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun_MT View Post
I think Rupert and Emma can nail the sexual tension, that stone skipping scene proved it even though they improvised the most un-Ron and un-Hermione way to say their dialogue.
Rupert and Emma could certainly portray sexual tension if they were given the scenes to do so. I don't mind the way Ron and Hermione acted in that scene even though it seemed a bit more Rupert/Emma than Ron/Hermione because we have no real basis for telling how Ron and Hermione act when Harry isn't around. For all we know they do act differently around each other when they are alone compared to how they act when Harry is with them.


  #1018  
Old April 5th, 2011, 5:55 am
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

It is a real shame that the Ron/Hermione relationship is not elaborated on in the movies. It may not have seemed like an important plot point to many fans, but I saw it as important. The entire series is based on the strength of love, and this was just one of the ways JK decided to show it's power.

Rupert and Emma do an excellent job with what they are given, especially the momentary glances (I love those pictures you posted from OoTP, GingerCat ) and other small actions that show the developing romance. I really liked the stone skipping scene, it was very natural, even if the dialogue was not typical Ron and Hermione. It would have been great to have a scene like that every now and again just to show their feelings for one another


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  #1019  
Old April 5th, 2011, 7:57 am
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

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Originally Posted by Chocoron View Post
But my one issue is, that Rupert and Emma never weave in their characters affection and comfort in the scenes that arent focussed on them, or in scenes where they haven't been asked to project a certain emotion. What I mean to say is, that if you are playing two characters for over a decade, and you know them really well, then in your performance as those characters you go beyond the script and embody them in every scene. I feel there should a continuous comfort that should flow between Ron and Hermione which I don't see, unless they are actively acting towards it, in underplayed scenes, but scripted scenes nonetheless.
Part of this may be because of the ages Rupert & Emma acted at were preteen & early teen years for the first 3 HP films. There's just not that emotional range or repertoire as young children or early teen years, the inexperience of youth, and maybe their off-camera relations had no "chemistry" of passion or deep emotional connection or that indefinable feel of natural compatibility?

Imo, Emma has done an excellent job in her passionate moments to convey to Ron her true feelings as Hermione starting in GoF. There is an enormous amount of love-interest generated by Emma. Ron has his jealous moments in GoF too. So, from GoF forward they are given the scenes to verify their relationship is much more than a friendship. There's just not that open display of touch and physical affection that most teens will experience when dating someone. (This isn't Twilight. ) But in HBP there is no doubt this is the beginning of a love-affair thanks again to Emma's acting. Her scene taking Ron's hand & the look she gave him having won Ron over the other girlfriend's attentions is priceless. What more needs to be said or shown? It seems waayyy deeper than just snogging or any other acted relationship in HP movies.

But you make a very good point here, imo...
Quote:
What I mean to say is, that if you are playing two characters for over a decade, and you know them really well, then in your performance as those characters you go beyond the script and embody them in every scene. I feel there should a continuous comfort that should flow between Ron and Hermione which I don't see, unless they are actively acting towards it, in underplayed scenes, but scripted scenes nonetheless.
So, I ask the following: maybe Emma's & Rupert's off-camera relations had no "chemistry" of passion or deep emotional connection or that indefinable feel of natural compatibility? None of that came natural to them, because E&R were not close that way on-set and off-camera as close friends?

Anyone know, comparing actor to character, how old Emma & Rupert vs R&H were in GoF, OotP, HBP, and DH1?


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Last edited by wandrider; April 5th, 2011 at 8:16 am. Reason: HBP comments.
  #1020  
Old April 5th, 2011, 8:09 am
GingerCat1  Undisclosed.gif GingerCat1 is offline
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Re: Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows Part 1

I disagree with that as i think Rupert and Emma can show on screen sexual tension. The stone throwing scene had a bit of it and i suspect if they were given the right material they could nail it.


 
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