The Hunger Games

[Bella_Crucio_U]

(ps. I love the new avi! AVPM is totally awesome. )

Thanks

So apparently Andrew Sims got a copy of Mockingjay already. I think it's funny how people hate him now on some sites. I really don't care as long as he doesn't spoil it which he won't.

13 days!! I'm super excited!

[HMN]

I was just at Barnes & Noble and found out that Suzanne Collins is doing a book signing on August 24th on Long Island (NY) right near my mom's house where I am staying this week. They have a bracelet system and the poster said they expect a big crowd. I won't be able to go though because we're going out of town on the 21st.

Oh, and looking at Mockingjay.net I see that she has a lot of book dates. The midnight release party at Books of Wonder is so close to my house. Total bummer. Here are the dates for anyone who is interested:
http://mockingjay.net/2010/08/03/suz...full-schedule/

I know it's no HP release party, but still, would have been really great to go to.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by Bella_Crucio_U

Okay remember when I said I though Gale would die saving Katniss in a social group post? Well I have another option. Maybe Gale will end up with Madge? Anyone think of that? So I think he'll either die or end up with Madge. I really hope he doesn't end up with Katniss because they are too good of friends and that's all they are meant to be in my eyes. Sorry for the randomness. Mockingjay in 19 days!!

I can see Gale and Madge, yeah. Hopefully they'll both survive, but I think there will be casualties with the Capitol so bent on subduing the rebellion and with President Snow holding Katniss responsible for inciting it. I can see Katniss losing people close to her in Mockingjay.

I think the capitol was playing with fire by forcing the games to happen every year. I read on a thread on another board someone mentioning that if the games only happened every few years the citizens would become complacent between Games. That they then wouldn't be as hateful of the Capitol. The constant reminder to the district citizens seems a sure fire way of causing rebellion. Which the capitol seems to know because they try to use the result of D13's rebellion as the antidote to the people rising up.

I think that's a good point. Sooner or later, people were going to be pushed too far. However, the Capitol had other ways of preventing people rebelling. There was a lack of communication between the districts; people were kept malnourished and downtrodden, except in the Career Districts, especially 1 and 2, it seems. Plus, there were plenty of people who had got to the stage of just not caring any more, like those who were taking bets at the Reaping.

[GinnyIsGenius]

I'm really excited for Mockingjay. Really trying to keep my mind open as the release date approaches. I'm currently listening to the audiobooks to refresh my mind. I'm on Catching Fire right now.

I hate the Team talk, Maybe because I have not jumped on the Saint Peeta train yet. I really don't why is it, but part of me expects something more from Peeta than being the selfless, good-natured boy-with-bread that loves Katniss. I'm expecting a big surprise out of him in Mockingjay.

I connect more with Gale as a character. He has a more round personality for my taste, and I found him to be very much like Katniss. I like their unspoken connection.

They both have been there for Katniss. Gale throughout the struggle of their every day life (Chp 8 of HG is a very insightful chapter on their relationship), and Peeta throughout the Games and, inevitably, afterward. The strong emotional ties for both are meant to be there because of the hard things she has have to experience with them. That's why it's so hard to sort feelings out while they are still in the middle of the mess. BUT since to me the romance aspect of the plot is complete dependent on the results of the rebellion, on who will survive or not, as well as on the information we are yet to know, I'll refrain myself from making further judgment.

Originally Posted by FurryDice

But I think there will be casualties with the Capitol so bent on subduing the rebellion and with President Snow holding Katniss responsible for inciting it. I can see Katniss losing people close to her in Mockingjay.

I believe so too. I would also add that both Peeta and Gale are big contenders for that end.

Frankly, my faith is on Suzanne Collins and her writing. I hope she'll serve the story before anything else, even if it'll be hard to see our characters go. I'll be destroyed, but story first, sentimentalisms for the Epilogue, please.
*gets Breaking Dawn tics*


ANYHOW

I'm really interest to know how far back the rebellion plans go, who were involve, who knew more than Katniss, and how much? Even Gale and Peeta could be somehow involve to some extent (massive speculation here! ). There is so much we don't know because Katniss is just realizing that a rebellion has been blowing up in throughout Panem thanks (and unbeknown) to her. Katniss' berries move and the Quarter Quell were the catalysts, but how was the reaction set in motion? Who has been working for this behind the scenes?

We don't know much about District 13 and what has been happening there. I can even began to explain how curios I am. I'm expecting a bunch of surprises from District 13.

Haymitch is one of my favorites in the books. I love Haymitch (even if that makes me weird) because he knows a lot more than we think he does, and he's a lot wiser than we think he is. Oh, yes, he is trouble.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius

I hate the Team talk, Maybe because I have not jumped on the Saint Peeta train yet. I really don't why is it, but part of me expects something more from Peeta than being the selfless, good-natured boy-with-bread that loves Katniss. I'm expecting a big surprise out of him in Mockingjay.

I'm not crazy about the Team stuff either. Mainly because I'm much more interested in finding out who survives to end up with anyone at all, and whether the rebellion will be successful. I'd love to see something unexpected from Peeta, too.

Frankly, my faith is on Suzanne Collins and her writing. I hope she'll serve the story before anything else, even if it'll be hard to see our characters go. I'll be destroyed, but story first, sentimentalisms for the Epilogue, please.

Agree, the story doesn't need loads of sentimentality. (Although I'm hoping the ending isn't something downbeat, like Orwell.)

I'm really interest to know how far back the rebellion plans go, who were involve, who knew more than Katniss, and how much? Even Gale and Peeta could be somehow involve to some extent (massive speculation here! ). There is so much we don't know because Katniss is just realizing that a rebellion has been blowing up in throughout Panem thanks (and unbeknown) to her. Katniss' berries move and the Quarter Quell were the catalysts, but how was the reaction set in motion? Who has been working for this behind the scenes?

I'm not mad about the theory that practically everyone apart from Katniss knew what was going on in terms of the plans. I know she was fairly oblivious in CF (wanting to go off and incite a rebellion, not realising that she'd already done that!), but I don't like the idea that everyone she trusts could have deceived her like that. As a catalyst, did Katniss' stunt with the berries push forward the planned rebellion? It was something that showed the citizens that they could defy the Capitol, that they did have a chance to defy the odds. Or, do you think the leaders of the underground movement orchestrated a situation where someone would publicly defy the Capitol and inspire the people to rebel? I think it's possible but even then, there's no guarantee on how people will act once they're manoeuvred into a situation.

We don't know much about District 13 and what has been happening there. I can even began to explain how curios I am. I'm expecting a bunch of surprises from District 13.

Haymitch is one of my favorites in the books. I love Haymitch (even if that makes me weird) because he knows a lot more than we think he does, and he's a lot wiser than we think he is. Oh, yes, he is trouble.

Haymitch is a great character. He's funny, and he's very interesting. I think he's not as blindly addicted to alcohol as he seems. For one thing, he's able to deal effectively with sponsors, and get the messages to Katniss in the arena. And his involvement in the revolution suggests it's possibly a front, too - he's not going to come under too much suspicion if he only seems capable of making a fool of himself. On the other hand, it fits the pattern of former victors turning to ways to distract themselves from the memories of the arena.

[GinnyIsGenius]

Originally Posted by FurryDice

I'm not mad about the theory that practically everyone apart from Katniss knew what was going on in terms of the plans. I know she was fairly oblivious in CF (wanting to go off and incite a rebellion, not realising that she'd already done that!), but I don't like the idea that everyone she trusts could have deceived her like that.

Oh, I don't like it either. Not on such absolute level. Especially when talking about Gale, who seems to be a popular theory in the webzzzz because of his vocal pro-rebellion leanings. As for Peeta, that would definitely give him the substance I think his character is lacking ... but maybe that's just my Peeta paranoia speaking.

Originally Posted by FurryDice

As a catalyst, did Katniss' stunt with the berries push forward the planned rebellion? It was something that showed the citizens that they could defy the Capitol, that they did have a chance to defy the odds. Or, do you think the leaders of the underground movement orchestrated a situation where someone would publicly defy the Capitol and inspire the people to rebel? I think it's possible but even then, there's no guarantee on how people will act once they're maneuvered into a situation.

See this is where it gets tricky...

I think revolutions are orchestrated, they have to be organized, at least to some level, in order to work and be successful. This is not done in a couple of month. I believe is very possible that something had been in the works already for God knows how many years before. Not in a extremely calculated way, 'cause like you said, no one could predict how people are going to respond. But I do believe the berries stunt helped rallying Panem together, and that the "rebellion front" jumped at the opportunity.

Do I believe the first games were set-up by the "revolution front"? Frankly, no. Do I believe there IS a rebellion front that had been working towards a revolution, before Katniss ever thought of the berries? I'm leaning for YES. Even Katniss is aware that they need someone to direct them.

Who is part of this rebellion front? I have no idea ... other than the obvious choice, Plutarch and Haymitch. But I don't think either of them are at the top of the chain. It could be anyone really! Then add the others characters have joined the movement as the story developed. Cinna, for example (if indeed he asked for District 12 with no other intention than to prove himself as a stylist), or Finnick, and the other victors. IMO, Haymitch could go either way.

I think District 13 will be key on this topic as well.

John Granger (Potter Pundit) has a HUGE theory running around about it being Madge's mother and District 12 mayor's wife (who we have only heard of until now) being the "true Mockingjay", as he calls her. He points out lots of reason, but mainly (1) she has access to information, thanks to her husband's status, and (2) her twin sister (Haymitch former love) was a victim of the Games. Curiosly enough, the Mockingjay pin belonged to her before it was given to Katniss, and the family's name is Undersee.

He expands quite a lot on his theory. It's quite exhausting, but it's interesting to see how he connects the dots according to his interpretation. He calls it 'The Pearl Plot'.

You can read his complete set of posts Hunger Games Post at HogwartsProfesor.com there, if you're interested. I recommend starting in the older entries.

I don't agree completely with them, especially once he tried to expand and make it bigger, including almost every character into it, but I believe he is going to get a bunch of stuff right.


ETA: HUGE NEWS!

The first chapter of Mockingjay has become available at Audible.com Facebook Page in its audio format!!!!

ETA: OH! Seems like it has been taken down. Only managed to listen 8 minutes of it.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius

Oh, I don't like it either. Not on such absolute level. Especially when talking about Gale, who seems to be a popular theory in the webzzzz because of his vocal pro-rebellion leanings. As for Peeta, that would definitely give him the substance I think his character is lacking ... but maybe that's just my Peeta paranoia speaking.

I certainly don't think Peeta is as innocent and straightforward as he's portrayed. He did kill the girl who lit the fire, the one that Cato thought he'd killed. And while all the other victors in CF have kiled, too, I think it's overlooked, even by them - Finnick reckons that Peeta's not like the rest of them, that he won the Games out of luck, rather than anything else. I think he could be quite determined, with something to motivate him -as in HG. It could be well into Mockingjay before we find out what happened to him, unless the rebels are able to find out from inside sources in the Capitol.

As for Gale's involvement, I don't think he'd have the patience to sit and wait if he knew District 13 was real, that something real was being planned against the Capitol. His anger against the Capitol lends itself much more to immediate action, not slow-burning plans.

I think revolutions are orchestrated, they have to be organized, at least to some level, in order to work and be successful. This is not done in a couple of month. I believe is very possible that something had been in the works already for God knows how many years before. Not in a extremely calculated way, 'cause like you said, no one could predict how people are going to respond. But I do believe the berries stunt brought Panem together, and that the "rebellion front" jumped at the opportunity.

Do I believe the first games were set up by the "revolution front"? Frankly, no. Do I believe there IS a rebellion front that had been working towards a revolution, before Katniss ever thought of the berries? I'm leaning for YES. Even Katniss is aware that they need someone to direct them.

I totally agree that the rebellion had been planned for a long time -according to what Haymitch tells Katniss at the end of CF, it's been going on for years. What I find hard to believe is that they orchestrated the situation where a tribute would defy the Capitol. I can believe that Plutarch Heavensbee might have influenced Seneca Crane to let both Katniss and Peeta live, if the Gamemakers were together at the time. I agree that the revolutionary group saw an opportunity and capitalised on it.

Who is part of this rebellion front? I have no idea ... other than the obvious choice, Plutarch. But I don't think neither of them are at the top of the chain. It could be anyone really! Then add the others characters have joined the movement as the story developed. Cinna, for example (if indeed he asked for District 12 with no other intention than to prove himself as a stylist), or Finnick, and the other victors. IMO, Haymitch could go either way.

I wonder if the tv interviewer (Caesar Flickerman, I think) is involved, or at least sympathetic. In HG, he seemed to be aware there was a lot on the line, that Katniss needed to prove that she acted out of love, not defiance. And in CF, he seemed aware that the Mockingjay was more than a token. (A lot of the Capitol people were probably oblivious, like the stylists, believing what they were told about shortages being due to storms). The victors who were involved in the plot to protect Katniss and Peeta/escape from the arena were probably involved in the group. It's possible that other victors, who weren't selected, also knew something.

John Granger (Potter Pundit) has a HUGE theory running around about it being Madge's mother and District 12 mayor's wife (who we have only heard of until now) being the "true Mockingjay", as he calls her. He points out lots of reason, but mainly (1) she has access to information, thanks to her husband's status, and (2) her twin sister (Haymitch former love) was a victim of the Games. Curiosly enough, the Mockingjay pin belonged to her before it was given to Katniss, and the family's name is Undersee.

He expands quite a lot on his theory. It's quite exhausting, but it's interesting to see how he connects the dots according to his interpretation. He calls it 'The Pearl Plot'.

You can read his complete set of posts Hunger Games Post at HogwartsProfesor.com there, if you're interested. I recommend starting in the older entries.

I don't agree completely with them, especially once he tried to expand and make it bigger, including almost every character into it, but I believe he is going to get a bunch of stuff right.

That's actually where I read the theory that everyone except Katniss knew what was going planned. I agree, he makes some good points, and he has some good theories. I don't know if Madge's mother is the brains behind it all, it's an interesting theory, though -and yeah, very symbolic, given the Mockingjay pin. I think he's very right about the Reaping being easily rigged, though. And I also think that Katniss' father was probably thinking about the Games as well as providing food when he trained her to hunt and shoot with a bow and arrow. He couldn't protect his daughter from the Reaping, but he could give her a better shot at survival, if she was selected. (Prim might also have been trained to use a bow and arrow if he'd survuved that long)

ETA: HUGE NEWS!

The first chapter of Mockingjay has become available at Audible.com Facebook Page in its audio format!!!!

ETA: OH! Seems like it has been taken down. Only managed to listen 8 minutes of it.

Ooh exciting! I can't decide if I want to know or if I want to completely avoid spoilers!

[GinnyIsGenius]

Originally Posted by FurryDice

I certainly don't think Peeta is as innocent and straightforward as he's portrayed. He did kill the girl who lit the fire, the one that Cato thought he'd killed. And while all the other victors in CF have killed, too, I think it's overlooked, even by them - Finnick reckons that Peeta's not like the rest of them, that he won the Games out of luck, rather than anything else. I think he could be quite determined, with something to motivate him -as in HG. It could be well into Mockingjay before we find out what happened to him, unless the rebels are able to find out from inside sources in the Capitol.

Wow, it makes me so happy to read this. This is pretty much what I think too. I have never been fully trustful of Peeta for some reason. I think there's more to him than the persona he presents. Not meaning that he is evil or anything, of course, or that his feelings for Katniss are not real, but I do think he has been susing his charisma on the Games for more reasons than we are aware of... I've never seen him as straightforward, . He presents himself so well, so measured, like Katniss said "nothing throws him off". I've always thought there's more behind his unfaltering behavior. That's why I jokingly call him Saint Peeta.

And yes, not only the characters are overlook it, but maybe us readers are meant to do so. It's even hard to consider because he is such a good person (I don't believe that is going to change regardless). In Gale's words: "It'd be better if he were easier to hate." But yeah, I think Peeta may very well be deep-seated within the rebellion plans or that at least play a role in it, from the beginning (HG) even. And maybe that's why I think he is may not survive the end. (YES, I SAID IT!)

I'm currently listening to CF's audiobook, and I had to smile on Chapter 9 when Katniss is musing about District 12 rebelling, but that they'd need someone to direct them are reassure the District it was possible.

Katniss then says "Someone with clear and persuasive words ... words ... I think of words and I think of Peeta. How people embrace everything he says. He could move a crowd to action, I bet. If he chose to. He'd find the things to say, but I'm sure the idea has never crossed his mind."

Oh Katniss, I think it may just have.

Originally Posted by FurryDice

As for Gale's involvement, I don't think he'd have the patience to sit and wait if he knew District 13 was real, that something real was being planned against the Capitol. His anger against the Capitol lends itself much more to immediate action, not slow-burning plans.

Again, I agree! That's my impression too.
To me, Gale is the straightforward of the two. Him being vocal about his feelings towards the Capitol (and everything else) only back it up. I got the feeling he is more transparent, for better or worse. I think Gale's involvement in the rebellion began at some point during the second-half of CF. I don't believe it could have happen before his whipping.

Originally Posted by FurryDice

I totally agree that the rebellion had been planned for a long time -according to what Haymitch tells Katniss at the end of CF, it's been going on for years. What I find hard to believe is that they orchestrated the situation where a tribute would defy the Capitol. I can believe that Plutarch Heavensbee might have influenced Seneca Crane to let both Katniss and Peeta live, if the Gamemakers were together at the time. I agree that the revolutionary group saw an opportunity and capitalised on it.

Exactly. What set off the rebelling spark was not that Katniss got chose to be in the Games, but the moment when she held out the berries. That could've NEVER been orchestrated by any group, much less without Katniss being aware of the situation.

Originally Posted by FurryDice

I wonder if the tv interviewer (Caesar Flickerman, I think) is involved, or at least sympathetic. In HG, he seemed to be aware there was a lot on the line, that Katniss needed to prove that she acted out of love, not defiance. And in CF, he seemed aware that the Mockingjay was more than a token. (A lot of the Capitol people were probably oblivious, like the stylists, believing what they were told about shortages being due to storms). The victors who were involved in the plot to protect Katniss and Peeta/escape from the arena were probably involved in the group. It's possible that other victors, who weren't selected, also knew something.

Someone has speculated that Effie's insistence (even compulsion) handling the schedule and keeping everyone on time was so a lot of clandestine meetings with could happen around the Districts. Though Effie would've to be a GREAT actress for that to be real.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius

Wow, it makes me so happy to read this. This is pretty much what I think too. I have never been fully trustful of Peeta for some reason. I think there's more to him than the persona he presents. Not meaning that he is evil or anything, of course, or that his feelings for Katniss are not real, but I do think he has been susing his charisma on the Games for more reasons than we are aware of... I've never seen him as straightforward, . He presents himself so well, so measured, like Katniss said "nothing throws him off". I've always thought there's more behind his unfaltering behavior. That's why I jokingly call him Saint Peeta.

And yes, not only the characters are overlook it, but maybe us readers are meant to do so. It's even hard to consider because he is such a good person (I don't believe that is going to change regardless). In Gale's words: "It'd be better if he were easier to hate." But yeah, I think Peeta may very well be deep-seated within the rebellion plans or that at least play a role in it, from the beginning (HG) even. And maybe that's why I think he is may not survive the end. (YES, I SAID IT!)

Peeta was playing a tactical game when he brought his feelings for Katniss into it, but I'm not sure if I can see him being involved in the rebellion prior to the Games, and really not as a major player in the rebel group. I might be proven totally wrong in a few days, but I just can't see why a teenager would already be very influential within the rebel group.

I think he's one of the good guys, but I agree that there's a lot going on beneath the madly-in-love image.

Oh Katniss, I think it may just have.

She really should have known better there, as she knows how he played up the love angle in the Games, starting with his interview. I think his feelings for Katniss are genuine, but I also think he made use of them, playing to the crowd.

Again, I agree! That's my impression too.
To me, Gale is the straightforward of the two. Him being vocal about his feelings towards the Capitol (and everything else) only back it up. I got the feeling he is more transparent, for better or worse. I think Gale's involvement in the rebellion began at some point during the second-half of CF. I don't believe it could have happen before his whipping.

Yeah, Gale is very direct. I suppose his presence with the rebels at the end of CF suggests he got involved somehow in the rebellion. But, why would Haymitch (and whoever else in District 12 is involved) fill him in on the plans? Was there something particular he could do for them? Would it have been safe to bring someone else into the plans, without a very good reason?Especially as Gale could potentially be a bit of a loose cannon, imo, if he didn't think plans were progressing quickly enough, or if people he cared about were in danger in the short term.

Exactly. What set off the rebelling spark was not that Katniss got chose to be in the Games, but the moment when she held out the berries. That could've NEVER been orchestrated by any group, much less without Katniss being aware of the situation.

Yes, it was something even Katniss herself didn't think of until the last minute. The Gamemakers, or the rebels within the Gamemakers, couldn't have anticipated that she'd react in that way to the u-turn with the rules.

Someone has speculated that Effie's insistence (even compulsion) handling the schedule and keeping everyone on time was so a lot of clandestine meetings with could happen around the Districts. Though Effie would've to be a GREAT actress for that to be real.

Effie? I can't picture it. I think she's a bit like Cinna's style team, in that she doesn't comprehend what things are like in the Districts, and she's completely wrapped up in the Capitol lifestyle. (Although the Quarter Quell woke some of the Capitol citizens up to what the Games are actually like for everyone else.)

[GinnyIsGenius]

Originally Posted by FurryDice

Peeta was playing a tactical game when he brought his feelings for Katniss into it, but I'm not sure if I can see him being involved in the rebellion prior to the Games, and really not as a major player in the rebel group. I might be proven totally wrong in a few days, but I just can't see why a teenager would already be very influential within the rebel group.

Because Peeta has skillz! People skills. Charisma. He is not like the rest of us, he is special, and he is such a good liar (paraphrasing Katniss in CF). This is the ONLY thing we know about Peeta besides his feelings for Katniss. It has been overly pointed out throughout the books, how he is good with words, how he influences a crowd. We have seen him in action and it still keeps getting mentioned. Almost as if we need to keep it in mind, that we must not forget it. Maybe it felt that way because I've been listening to the books back-to-back, but it certainly makes me think that we are yet to see something come out of that fact.

I had not seriously considered it myself (meaning "Peeta being involved in the rebellion") until I read this post:

Posted by Kimberly Church in hogwartsprofessor.com You guys are hot on the ball when it comes to insight and analysis, so I decided to re-read, and take note of some of ideas I’ve read, and the only thing that stands out to me that I didn’t see before was the relationship Peeta has with all the Rebel Primes, (the name I have for people who are obviously involved in the rebellion, or the storyboard for the rebellion). I consider the Primes to be people like Haymitch, Cinna, Finnick, etc. We obviously know that Cinna is an involved “Prime” but for some reason, uncomfortable with his involvement, and that is curious. Maybe because his marked acts are more obvious acts of rebellion, and this stands out. p.48: “You’re new, aren’t you? I don’t think I’ve seen you before,” I say. Most of the stylists are familiar, constants in the ever-changing pool of tributes. Some have been around my whole life. “Yes, this is my first year in the Games,” says Cinna. Right before the opening ceremonies, p.50, “…everyone is absolutely giddy with excitement over what a splash we’ll make. Except Cinna. He just seems a bit weary as he accepts congratulations.” What is curious is that at first, it doesn’t seem that Cinna and Haymitch are part of the same rebellion, which goes to say that either the “network” isn’t in communication yet. p. 58 “Whose idea was the hand holding?” asks Haymitch. “Cinna’s,” says Portia. “Just the perfect touch of rebellion,” says Haymitch. “Very nice.” Rebellion? I have to think about that one a moment. Now stick with me…here comes the part with Peeta… After Katniss sees the red-headed Avox for the first time, Peeta recognizes that she wants to talk and then says something I didn’t catch the first time on p.61, “Peeta picks up on my hesitation. “Have you been on the roof yet?” I shake my head. “Cinna showed me. You can practically see the whole city. The wind’s a bit loud, though.” I translate this into “no one will overhear us talking” in my head.” The question I have here is why did Cinna need to speak in private to Peeta? He isn’t Peeta’s stylist…Portia is. Loud giveaway…how did I miss this the first time? Then when Katniss asks if they were being taped on the roof, Peeta replies on p.61, “Maybe,” he admits. “come see the garden.” On the other side of the dome, they’ve built a garden with flower beds and potted trees. From the branches hang hundreds of wind chimes, which account for the tinkling I head. Here in the garden, on this windy night, it’s enough to drown out two people who are trying not to be heard. Peeta looks at me expectantly.” Not only did Cinna “show” Peeta the roof, he showed him a place to speak in private…what did Cinna need to tell Peeta in private? Perhaps he saw Peeta take initiative with the hand-holding during opening ceremonies and decided to let him in on the plan…or perhaps Peeta is the go-between for Cinna and Haymitch… Either way, Peeta has come a long way from the boy who cried hard at the reaping, to the boy who suddenly has a calm resolve at the opening ceremonies, the tribute training, just chilling out in the mud, on the train during their victory tour…the juxtaposition is too much to suggest that such a significant change could happen just like that. Anyway…just my two cents. What do you think about Peeta? Source

I guess she makes her case for both Peeta and Cinna here.

I've been listening to CF trying to keep my ears out for Peeta and his reactions and dialogue throughout, and if his involvement turns out to be true, I'm going to do flips. It's so masterfully written. It could work if Peeta is using his skills for all their worth, even when we don't think he is using them. He doesn't need to be in the known of every single detail of the rebel plans, exactly. The QQ victors from 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 11 all had "varying degrees" of knowledge, and we know from Haymitch that Peeta was left out from the QQ plans as a form of precaution because they knew he would be one of the first the Capitol would try to catch along with Katniss. But he could have known just enough to know what to do and who to trust. He is a natural, after all.

Of course, this not be the only way we could see Peeta's talents come into play. But I'm sure hoping to see something, anything, from his character that we wouldn't necessarily be expecting. I would really love that.

Originally Posted by FurryDice

She really should have known better there, as she knows how he played up the love angle in the Games, starting with his interview. I think his feelings for Katniss are genuine, but I also think he made use of them, playing to the crowd.

Me too, I think his feelings are real, and I think that no matter if he was involved or not with the rebels his goodness of character will remain. The question remaining is whether his "use" of these feelings was not only to up their chances in the Games, but as part of an underlying reason we are yet to know of.

Originally Posted by FurryDice

Yeah, Gale is very direct. I suppose his presence with the rebels at the end of CF suggests he got involved somehow in the rebellion. But, why would Haymitch (and whoever else in District 12 is involved) fill him in on the plans? Was there something particular he could do for them? Would it have been safe to bring someone else into the plans, without a very good reason? Especially as Gale could potentially be a bit of a loose cannon, imo, if he didn't think plans were progressing quickly enough, or if people he cared about were in danger in the short term.

Haymitch (or any of the head rebels for that matter) didn't need to fill him in on the plans. District 12 was being destroyed by the Capitol. The rebels lend their assistance for evacuation, at least to Katniss' family. No need for Gale to have known any details until afterward they were rescued and taken to District 13. Maybe Gale asked to be taken to Katniss, or the rebels brought him to Katniss for comfort. Maybe that's just why he was there at the end of CF.

[Clockworthy]

I think we all know what came out yesterday (At least in N.A)

(Hint: It's Mockingjay)

Anyone grab a copy yet? The synopsis on Wikipedia shook me, but I'm happy about who Katniss finally ends up with.

[baseballblondie]

My copy is in the mail.

[Fury]

I started reading Hunger Games at one of the libraries in town yesterday (the one I can't get a card at for some reason ) and got to like... page 81. Well, today I went to the library to check out Hunger Games, but they are all checked out since Mockingjay came out.

*sigh* So I have it on reserve.

What I did read I like so far. The main character is great to read about, and the story looks very exciting. Not sure I like Peeta, though he might grow on me. But I really liked the main character's friend from back home. Gale or something? Thought he would be one of the initiates.

[GinnyIsGenius]

Clockworthy: A synopsis couldn't possibly do justice to the book.
I finished Mockingjay last night, and I'm afraid a couple of restless nights are yet to come. Hopefully I can vent some of it here.

ACCIO SPOILER TAGS!

This one it's general commentary on the book. I'll tag it anyway, just in case, though there won't be any specific details in it.

Spoiler: show

In general, Mockingjay was tragic. Even in what you could call "happiness", this story is tragic. And I guess that was S. Collins point.

Mockingjay was great commentary on war and politics. And Collins expertly painted a very raw and realistic picture. I don't think I've ever being this affected as I read a book. I'm still am. And I'm sure I'm going to be for a couple of days, 'cause it's fiction, but only not so much, when you think about it. Collins held true to her word that, to her, this stories were, first and foremost, war stories.

School Library Journal "When I think back, at the center of all this is the question of what makes a necessary war—at what point is it justifiable or unavoidable? Source

Adding to that, that no matter what, no matter which side either, war changes people scarring them forever.

I loved Mockingjay as the ending of the trilogy. I think S. Collins had very specific messages she wanted to convey, and that she did indeed. I'm not going to be able to re-read it for some time. I got the audiobook and I can't even contemplate listening to it if I want to hold on to my sanity.

I don't exactly know where to put this book in the series. Catching Fire was my favorite. Mockingjay has shaken me up so much, undoubtedly like none of the other two, but what does that mean? Does that means it's a better book, a better story, or that is it just more meaningful or emotionally charged? I'm still digesting. I'm still mourning. I'm yet to figure that out.

Now on to MORE SPOILER-Y comments on the book.

Spoiler: show

I'm soooo glad that the conspiracy theory that was out and about in the webz turn out to be incorrect. *sigh of relief*

My favorites were the two boys, I think. Peeta and Gale. Both going through very different motions. Peeta is broken. Gale is on a mission, basically riding on raw emotions. The Victors and their stories, another favorite, just gutted me inside. To hear them talk about the awful things there had been subjected by the Capitol, to finally know about them as persons, not as the ruthless Victors they were portrayed as. Finnick, in particular, was incredible.

As for someone that wanted to see something different from Peeta, other than the selfless, goodhearted boy with bread dimension, hijacked Peeta fulfilled my desire. In a lot of ways, I bonded more with hijacked Peeta than the real Peeta (or the Peeta in HG and CF). And, just like Katniss, I appreciated the real Peeta more afterward. It helped me embrace Peeta's character without the hesitation I felt before (because he was such a good liar ). I felt lots of different emotions for him throughout this book. I'm just glad we got to see something different from his character. At times you really didn't know where he was going. Nice for a change. I found hijacked Peeta fascinating.

Gale. Gale was how I expected him to be, and then some more. He was blunt, direct, harsh (in combat and rebellion). You know, he brought a very painful and hard perspective to swallow, but in the end very real and very telling. It's hard to judge him, because is hard to judge the abused and their hatred towards their oppressors. Who are WE to judge? Something that has built up for years and by no accounts unwarranted feelings. "You think I'm heartless," he said. I bet a lot of people are thinking that 'cause it would be easy to. There are no easy choices, really, no absolute rights. The lines get really blurred. Something that gets you thinking...

As far as the love triangle goes, I can say that I have NEVER in my life seen a writer deal with a triangle as poignantly as S. Collins did (much less in a YA novel). I always expected that the answer was fully dependent on the results of the rebellion and war, but never in my life did I contemplate like it happen. IMO, she handle it extremely well, masterfully, how she tied it into the context of war, which ultimately that's why it was so heartbreaking and moving. She stayed very true to the characters. I mean, given the gloomy situation, I would've expected every character to act just as they did in the resolution.

In a way, I view any possibility Gale could've ever had with Katniss as a casualty of war, too. It was extremely hard to read those to pages (pg 366-367). When they encounter and she asks "was it your bomb"? You know there was no going back. And it was in Gale's character, I think, "because he alone knows how I [Katniss] operate", to realize that. That this was a hurdle that could probably never be overcome, then stand and walk away. I have incredible respect for Gale's character for doing that. My heart breaks when I think about it.

The "old Katniss" could have ended up with Gale, absolutely. The post-war Katniss could have only been with Peeta. And I say that with the conviction I never felt on the first two books. So Suzanne Collins, wow, that's how the pros do it. When you think about it, there's no place to be rejoice about which "team" won. That only cheapens the story and the circumstances. Everyone lost. Everyone is broken. Everyone is incomplete. No one is the same as they were before.

I'm glad there was NO alternative ship for Gale. For example, Madge/Gale or such. Anything like that would have felt like a cop-out to me. But S. Collins knew exactly what she was doing, what she was aiming for. She's brilliant.

There were things I'd have like to see that we didn't get a chance too. This sort of story black-outs, where we are just recounted the events. The victor's rescue from the Capitol, comes first to mind. Because it seemed a bit too easy. But I think it felt that way because we don't actually SEE it happening.

As far as the unanswered questions, I'm just curious to whether Katniss ever made peace with Gale, did they continued to further become strangers, did they ever talk again, as friends, the allies, the team they once were? I don't think their relationship could've ever been the same as before. That's the point of it all... I hope they didn't become total strangers, even if if took time to get there for both of them.

Kudos to Suzanne Collins for serving the story first and foremost and above all.

[Beatifically]

I don't really know what to think of it. I thought it was brilliant but after the climax, I had very mixed feelings. I feel guilty for admitting this, but I don't really like how it ended. Maybe if I mull it over some more I'll change my mind, but who knows?

[GinnyIsGenius]

What you didn't like exactly?

[MrsLupin]

I loved Mockingjay! I loved that Katniss came into her own and didn't let anyone use her as a puppet.

I didn't have feelings either way about who she was romantically involved with....

Spoiler: show

... but I loved that she did decide in the end. She didn't just end up with the one who wasn't dead. No one felt like she "settled." And with her closeness to Prim (which totally broke my heart) it made sense that anyone who had any involvement of that bomb would never be able to be in her life.

[GinnyIsGenius]

I'm stll thinking about this book, I may need therapy.

Spoiler: show

I agree, Mrs. Lupin. I loved that Collins wrote that "they grew back together" before she could finally say "real". That was huge to me, because to me that was what finally did it. Taking time to purify themselves from the horrors they lived, restore and heal as much as they could, then try to build a life with any semblance of happiness and normalcy.

Their relationship had been too entangled with the outside factors: in the midst of the Games (and the fact that true or not, their relationship began as a way to manipulate viewers), and then in the midst of a devastating war for freedom.

Seems to me like any decision before that could have been considered as influenced by their experiences. To me, it makes sense that Katniss would've needed time to get there.

After war, it was either Peeta (because he came back to District 12 and was there through the healing process) or her being alone. Sadly, life threw a mad curve ball at Gale, and he would always be tied, even if indirectly, to Prim's death.

Even at the end, you still get a feel of how war has scarred the lives of the survivors. You really don't feel like cheering about "which team won" 'cause that would almost sound petty considering the events. In reality, no one did. The war heroes became broken victims of the war they fought for.

I'm just glad Katniss gave herself a chance.

For anyone interested in more serious discussion, check HogPro's Mockingjay Discussion post. They are extremely good.

[Beatifically]

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius

What you didn't like exactly?

Honestly? Just the ending.

Spoiler: show

Everything after Prim died just bothered me. Katniss became a character I didn't like anymore, especially when they were voting about to keep the Hunger Games continuing. (One could argue that she only voted yes because she was going to kill Coin anyway, but that was never clarified. So I guess that's mostly an issue with writing?) Then the whole epilogue bothered me because Katniss seemed so detached. Really, she referred to her son and daughter as the "boy" and "girl"? I always saw her as so loyal and caring that it just shocked me how cold she was.

Gale became nearly out of character with his abrupt departure. Furtherore, it really just bothers me that their friendship was dropped so suddenly (though I understand why Katniss would associate him with the bomb), as if they were never close at all. I get that Katniss was supposed to be with Peeta and sheexplains it well at the end of Mockingjay, but it seems like Suzanne Collins was just trying to get rid of Gale quickly. And what's with that comment about Gale probably kissing another girl? That was so ... tactless. My main issue is that their whole friendship was thrown out the window when that was one of the best things in the series, besides the dynamic between Katniss and Peeta.

Lastly, I have a huge issue with how Katniss was dealing with the war so many years later. I get that she wouldn't forget all that happened, but was she really that depressed? Maybe Suzanne Collins meant to say that she was still scarred, but it came across as if she was haunted on a daily basis, to the point that it was unhealthy.

[HMN]

Originally Posted by Beatifically

I don't really know what to think of it. I thought it was brilliant but after the climax, I had very mixed feelings. I feel guilty for admitting this, but I don't really like how it ended. Maybe if I mull it over some more I'll change my mind, but who knows?

I felt the same at first. It was so exciting all the way through and then sort of flat. But then I realized

Spoiler: show

just how broken and used and destroyed Katniss and Peeta are as people that the happily ever after will never be 100% happy. Dealing with flashbacks and breakdowns. They're still allies, but she finally fell in love with her ally. Gale also always had aspirations, and had Katniss not been so messed with, perhaps she would have also, but she was done - and a lot like Harry Potter, just wanting a quiet life. (but then again, that's a bit of what bothered me about the epilogue of HP!)

Originally Posted by Beatifically

Spoiler: show

Everything after Prim died just bothered me. Katniss became a character I didn't like anymore, especially when they were voting about to keep the Hunger Games continuing. (One could argue that she only voted yes because she was going to kill Coin anyway, but that was never clarified. So I guess that's mostly an issue with writing?)

Spoiler: show

I had to think about that over and over again. I think it was a lot to do with giving Coin a 'vote' that Katniss was on her side - otherwise Katniss would not have been allowed to Kill Snow. So when she said "for Prim" it should have told Coin that Katniss knew D13/Coin killed Prim, but really it gave false confidence to Coin that Katniss believed it to be the Capitol and wanted revenge. I think Haymitch understood her because his reply, "I'm with the Mockingjay" also said to me that he knew Coin to be untrustworthy, but for once left it up to Katniss to decide what to do.

Personally I would have liked to see her eat the nightlock pill and have the book end there and open to interpretation, but so much else of the book rocked, that I'm going to let it go.

Still reading through everyone else's comments. In general though, it was a wonderful roller coaster ride. Just when I thought things were going to go one way they totally changed direction.

Spoiler: show

The amount of utter understanding of manipulation and suffering and want of power was spot on in my book. More to comment as I digest, but overall, wow. Favorite moment was when Peeta went to strangle Katniss. I couldn't figure out how she was going to involve him and bam! She turned the nicest guy ever into a monster. Brilliant! And then she did just the opposite to Gale.

Worst thing for me - all the times Katniss just blacked out from something. The girl was so drugged for so much of the story that I feared I would get to the end and learn it was all just a dream.

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius

Spoiler: show

There were things I'd have like to see that we didn't get a chance too. This sort of story black-outs, where we are just recounted the events. The victor's rescue from the Capitol, comes first to mind. Because it seemed a bit too easy. But I think it felt that way because we don't actually SEE it happening.

As far as the unanswered questions, I'm just curious to whether Katniss ever made peace with Gale, did they continued to further become strangers, did they ever talk again, as friends, the allies, the team they once were? I don't think their relationship could've ever been the same as before. That's the point of it all... I hope they didn't become total strangers, even if if took time to get there for both of them.

GIG, I agree with all of your comments, couldn't have said it better myself. Regarding these two bits:

Spoiler: show

I started to become a bit intolerant of all the blackouts myself. But when the rescue party even mentioned that the rescue of Peeta was too easy - I appreciated the turn of events even more. I think the anticipation worked for me this time because when Katniss went to see Peeta for the first time we all expected that hug, only to get the total opposite. I couldn't have been more pleased.

Regarding Katniss and Gale, I have the same questions about Kaniss and her mother. I think Gale loved her, but when he realized he didn't 'win' he was not coming back. I don't think ever. The whole Games started with Katniss trying to protect Prim and if she didn't try in the first place, life as normal would have continued. The whole thing became pointless to Katniss with the death of Prim - all of it really, the war, the rebellion - even though it was a good thing - she went through it all for nothing. And really, while it was Coin's fault, she'll always blame Gale.

Originally Posted by Fury

I started reading Hunger Games at one of the libraries in town yesterday (the one I can't get a card at for some reason ) and got to like... page 81. Well, today I went to the library to check out Hunger Games, but they are all checked out since Mockingjay came out.

*sigh* So I have it on reserve..

Keep waiting, please! These really are the best books I've read all year. I agree with GIG, I loved HG, loved CF even more and MJ was a great end to it all.