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  #1  
Old December 29th, 2009, 7:21 pm
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Health Care Legislation: Final Version

Yes, Final Version .

Arguably the single biggest debate in Congress in many years has been the debate over an overhaul of the US Health Care system. As of the time of writing this thread, the US House and Senate had each passed their own bills, and the bills remained to be reconciled before going to President Obama for his signature.

A few questions to restart us:

1. What are the chances that the House and Senate reconcile their bill? What kind of timeline do you think we'll see?

2. What do you think the final bill will look like?

3. What elements of the bills do you like?

4. What elements of the bills do you dislike?

5. Assuming that the bills are enacted, what further steps would you like to see? Would you like any part of the bills to be removed?

6. What kind of impact do you think that the bills will have on the 2010 and 2012 elections?

Please note: A wealth of fact-checking sites exist to check claims made by politicians on both sides. I've found them extremely helpful, and it's helped me realize that both sides have good and bad points.

In other words: behave .


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  #2  
Old January 3rd, 2010, 2:29 am
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

Just a question: Does anyone know of somewhere online I can find some sort of comprehensive chart comparing the two bills? I would be most appreciative.


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Old January 3rd, 2010, 3:20 am
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

One resource. Doesn't have a chart, though.


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  #4  
Old January 4th, 2010, 12:40 am
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

1. What are the chances that the House and Senate reconcile their bill? What kind of timeline do you think we'll see?

I have no idea about the timeframe. The House isn't due back in Washington until January 12; the Senate on the 18th. The President would like to have the reconciled bill in time for his State of the Union address later in January.

I think Democrats will come up with a bill. Republicans will try every trick in the book to tank it.


2. What do you think the final bill will look like?

Pretty much like the Senate bill.


3. What elements of the bills do you like?

The 94% it will cover. The exchanges. The individual mandate.


4. What elements of the bills do you dislike?

The absence of a public option.


5. Assuming that the bills are enacted, what further steps would you like to see? Would you like any part of the bills to be removed?

I want a strong public option.


6. What kind of impact do you think that the bills will have on the 2010 and 2012 elections?

Plenty.


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  #5  
Old January 4th, 2010, 4:05 pm
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

Quote:
Originally Posted by purplehawk View Post
4. What elements of the bills do you dislike?

The absence of a public option.
But when you were defending Obama's lie about his not delivering a promised public option, you said it was there in everything but name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purplehawk
It's not called the "public option" as he promised, but, bottom line, he has delivered.

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=123171&page=6


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  #6  
Old January 4th, 2010, 11:56 pm
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

I think the groundwork is there, Wab, and will make the public option easier to enact when and if the time comes. But if you'll remember, it was Hillary Clinton demanding a public option during the '08 campaign. Obama came late to that one, but you're right in that he did talk about it in the last months of the campaign.

ETA:

It looks as though congressional Democrats are going to ping-pong their way to compromise between the House and Senate health care bills, avoiding the conference process altogether. This process has the added benefit of taking the Republicans out before they can gum up the works again.

Instead of creating a final conference report that both chambers would have to pass, principals from each would agree upon a package of changes to the Senate bill. The House would then vote to amend the Senate bill to reflect those agreed-upon changes, pass the legislation, and send it back to the Senate for what they hope will be a final vote. Republicans lose the "motion to recommit" opportunity, which is a procedural trick the minority can use to scuttle legislation in the House at the last minute.

This streamlined process is known informally as "ping-pong" and sure to make final passage a lot smoother than it would be otherwise.

EXCLUSIVE: Dems 'Almost Certain' to Bypass Conference


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  #7  
Old January 5th, 2010, 12:22 am
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

That just feels wrong, Purple. What you are saying is that you are supporting the idea that the Congress leadership has decided to exclude a portion of the Representatives and Senators in an attempt to pass a bill that a good portion of the Citizens of this country do not want.

Anyone else see anything wrong with this picture? I'd say it reminds me of a few governments in history, but it'd probably get my *** banned from the DOIMC.

-Tibbetts


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Old January 5th, 2010, 1:49 am
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

You wouldn't have to read very far back into your history book. It was used repeatedly during the 107th, 108th and 109th Congresses. Right here in the United States.


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  #9  
Old January 5th, 2010, 3:15 am
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

If these are regularly used tactics, and not unprecedented bullying by the Democrats or unprecedented obstructionism by the Republicans, the Democrats seriously need to message better. Because that's not the message that's actually getting out there.


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  #10  
Old January 5th, 2010, 4:01 am
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
If these are regularly used tactics, and not unprecedented bullying by the Democrats or unprecedented obstructionism by the Republicans, the Democrats seriously need to message better. Because that's not the message that's actually getting out there.
I agree with you there. It's frustrating. I don't know how anyone competes with the GOP when it comes to messaging. They're swamping the Sunday talk shows, the newspapers, and they're all saying pretty much the same outrageous things over and over again. Take Palin's whopper about "death panels." Everyone who had even a cursory look at that bill knew it wasn't true, but it remains etched in stone in the minds of many voters. I don't know if that's necessarily true, but I do know that what they've been doing in Washington this year is unprecedented in our history.

The President is determined to treat the American people as adults who are capable of forming an independent opinion not biased by partisan rhetoric. There are times when even I despair of this strategy. While I want to believe the country is better than this, it's difficult at times.


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Last edited by purplehawk; January 5th, 2010 at 1:23 pm.
  #11  
Old January 5th, 2010, 9:53 pm
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

Quote:
Originally Posted by purplehawk View Post
The President is determined to treat the American people as adults who are capable of forming an independent opinion not biased by partisan rhetoric. There are times when even I despair of this strategy. While I want to believe the country is better than this, it's difficult at times.
So, folks only have "independent opinions" and are "adults" when they agree with President Obama and his party? I hope you aren't saying that, Purple.

-Tibbetts


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Last edited by alwaysme; January 5th, 2010 at 10:03 pm. Reason: rudeness
  #12  
Old January 5th, 2010, 11:18 pm
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbetts View Post
So, folks only have "independent opinions" and are "adults" when they agree with President Obama and his party? I hope you aren't saying that, Purple.

-Tibbetts
If I intended to say that, you wouldn't have to ask. I've earned my rep as a direct poster.


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  #13  
Old January 6th, 2010, 9:09 am
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

Other than the lack of a strong public option, I like the senate option for health care reform.
I think that one thing that bothers me about the whole thing is the amount of misinformation floating around out there, from both sides. In my line of work I see a lot of people and I talk to a lot of people. Many of them are opposed to the whole thing because they feel that their tax dollars are going to be give out to "freeloaders" (their word...not mine), that they are going to lose their own benefits at their jobs, that their Social Security and Medicare benefits will be diminished in some way. There are others who are just sitting back on their heels and waiting for everything to be covered by the government. There are many people who hear something on TV from an "expert", most likely a partisan talking head, and just believe it. They never bother to check facts.
I wish that Congress, as a whole, could put out the contents of the bill, in small portions at a time, to local media outlets, and allow people to read the bill(s) for themselves and decide.

I had the idea a while ago for a public option that would allow individuals and families to buy into the existing welfare health care system based on their income, much like the section 8 housing program works. It would not be a long term solution, I don't think, but it would be something, and it would utilize and expand on an existing program. I rather liked the idea because it would allow people with lower incomes, or no insurance offered at their job to pay what they could afford, rather than a premium that they may or may not be able to afford. With this idea, people would still be paying something and therefore helping to fund the program.

I think that tort reform needs to be discussed heavily with health care reform. I live in Pennsylvania, where we have no caps on medical lawsuits. I have some good friends who are in the medical profession, and they claim that their malpractice premiums are ridiculously high. If we as a society could get these premiums down, I think it would go a long way to helping with the costs associated with doctors visits.

I also believe that something needs to be done to lower the costs of prescription drugs. The costs of some of these essential medicines are mind blowing. I can't imagine being an older person and trying to afford some of these pills. I like the idea of medicare being able to help out older Americans by negotiating drug costs.

Just as a question, because I don't know..... in states where medicinal marijuana is legal, would a government run public option, if one is adopted, cover the costs of this medication?


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Old January 6th, 2010, 2:39 pm
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirefightingMuggle View Post
Just as a question, because I don't know..... in states where medicinal marijuana is legal, would a government run public option, if one is adopted, cover the costs of this medication?
Good question. I say if your gonna tax it (which states who are legalizing are) then it should be covered as part an overall health plan i.e. if you have a serious illness in which marijuana is part of the course of treatment and is perscribed by a physician. For headaches and minor things--no way. That's why we have over the counter stuff. That's my opinion but perhaps someone can dig up links?


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Old January 6th, 2010, 4:24 pm
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

Quote:
Originally Posted by purplehawk View Post
The President is determined to treat the American people as adults who are capable of forming an independent opinion not biased by partisan rhetoric. There are times when even I despair of this strategy. While I want to believe the country is better than this, it's difficult at times.
As an American, I can honestly say that I'm pretty sick and tired of being lied to my by elected officials, and I'm even more tired of being told that I'm either an idiot, biased, or worse when I merely disagree with the policies advocated by an extremely partisan President and his Congressional fellows. I've given up hope that the political leaders of this country are capable of holding an adult discussion without tossing stones and telling bold faced lies.


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Last edited by monster_mom; January 6th, 2010 at 5:14 pm.
  #16  
Old January 7th, 2010, 4:11 pm
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_mom View Post
As an American, I can honestly say that I'm pretty sick and tired of being lied to my by elected officials, and I'm even more tired of being told that I'm either an idiot, biased, or worse when I merely disagree with the policies advocated by an extremely partisan President and his Congressional fellows. I've given up hope that the political leaders of this country are capable of holding an adult discussion without tossing stones and telling bold faced lies.
"Extremely partisan President?" That statement in itself is extremely partisan.


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  #17  
Old January 7th, 2010, 4:18 pm
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version



Let's focus on Healthcare and it's implications for people who (will) make use of it, not the people who have designed it/are against it all okay?


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  #18  
Old January 20th, 2010, 6:16 pm
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Re: Health Care Legislation: Final Version

I think we'll consolidate coverage of the health issue to the Congress thread and close this one now .


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