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Old August 5th, 2007, 3:35 pm
rubeus06 rubeus06 is offline
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Questions about time traveling

I haven't been here since a long time, so I am starting a repeated thread I'm sorry.
In POA, how did the future Harry save the present Harry? I thought theat question would be answered in DH. BUt it was not. Any ideas?


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  #2  
Old August 5th, 2007, 4:13 pm
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Re: What about time travel?

In Prisoner of Azkaban Harry went back in time and charged down the Dementors that were attacking himself, Hermione and Sirius. Knowing he had already done it he didn't need a good memory or anything he just knew he could do it. That was the explanation I got.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 4:20 pm
horcrux_man  Male.gif horcrux_man is offline
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Re: What about time travel?

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Originally Posted by rubeus06 View Post
I haven't been here since a long time, so I am starting a repeated thread I'm sorry.
In POA, how did the future Harry save the present Harry? I thought theat question would be answered in DH. BUt it was not. Any ideas?
Your right. They could have traveled back in time to stop Snape's death or any other people that they cared about that passed away. Maybe even went back in time to save Harry's parents.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 4:29 pm
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Re: What about time travel?

They broke the ministry's entire store of TimeTurners in the battle at the end of Order of the Phoenix. Hermione said this and Rowling confirmed it. They couldn't have gone back in time. Anything they might have done could have had huge overall effects.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 4:29 pm
GoldSeven  Female.gif GoldSeven is offline
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Re: What about time travel?

No, they couldn't. I think the original question was meant to be only about PoA - The Invisible F answered that; as for any further speculation on whether it would have been possible to change other events using time-turners, it was forbidden, highly dangerous - and impossible, since, as far as I remember, all Ministry time-turners had been destroyed during the break-in in OotP. A clever move by JKR, in my opinion, as the question would have popped up again if this or that couldn't have been changed.

One might have thought that Voldemort's return in GoF might not have been considered as worthy of being undone, but Dumbledore already guessed, at that time, that Voldemort had made a big mistake in taking Harry's blood for his resurrection.

He might have wanted to undo Cedric's death... but Dumbledore was wise enough to know that you can't bargain with death.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 6:44 pm
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Re: What about time travel?

Also... the point about time travel is that everything has already happened. In PoA, Buckbeak never actually died. They heard the sound of the axe hitting the fence, and Hagrid's howl of joy - NOT the sound of the axe hitting Buckbeack's neck, and Hagrid's howl of gried. Timeturners can't be used to undo things which have already happened, such as deaths or LV returning.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 7:39 pm
Leon_Lionheart  Male.gif Leon_Lionheart is offline
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Re: What about time travel?

It doesn't seem as if anything can really be changed via Time Travel. As pointed out, when the Time-Turners were used, nothing actually changed. This is emphasized quite clearly in the movie, too, as many things that happen before the time travel sequence only happened because of the time travel sequence.

This presents rather a problem for the whole "choice" vs. "fate" theme, seeing as the apparent nature of time travel makes it seem that time, and thereby the future, are fixed and immovable. For example, that Harry saved Harry was only ever possible because Harry saved Harry, and that was only possible because Harry saved Harry... that's what we call a causal loop, and such a thing, while logically possible, is only possible in a "time stream" that is fixed and devoid of any real choice, unless I'm making some kind of logical mistake in my thinking...


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Old August 5th, 2007, 7:45 pm
Belgarath2  Female.gif Belgarath2 is offline
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Re: What about time travel?

This all makes my head hurt very badly.
Time travel does not allow you to change anything. it enables you to do something that has already happened, but that thing happening happened because of you going back in time.
But this rule does not prevent you from going back in time ie. when Hermy did an hour again in order to do extra lessons. It's just important not to change anything, because this results in mess ups such as being killed by your future self by mistake.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 7:55 pm
Epona  Female.gif Epona is offline
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Re: What about time travel?

Hermione said that wizards had killed thier past or future selves by mistake. So wouldn't that be changing something? In PoA they had already done all of it before useing the time turner, but they must have originally done it without it already having happened, or else it never would have happened. I'm sorry if I'm not making sense, it is hard to put my thoughts into words.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 8:37 pm
Ian_Black  Male.gif Ian_Black is offline
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Re: What about time travel?

I believe that everything was set up. With Hermione hitting Harry with the rock in Hagrid's shed, and all the events leading up to everything.
I don't really understand this time travel, and the repercussions that effect everything in a whole on one's future. Ray Bradbury wrote that, if anything is disturbed in the past it can create catastrophic changes in the future.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 9:35 pm
GoldSeven  Female.gif GoldSeven is offline
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Re: What about time travel?

Well, Hermione throwing the stone was movie, not book.

But blimey, I'd forgotten they hadn't actually changed anything. And Dumbledore had been with the executioner, and he already knew that Buckbeak had gone - so he already knew he was going to send someone back in time. Does that make sense?


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Old August 6th, 2007, 12:33 am
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Re: What about time travel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epona View Post
Hermione said that wizards had killed thier past or future selves by mistake. So wouldn't that be changing something?
Exactly... excellent point. I do think that the past can be changed.

And as for everyone saying time travel wasn't possible due to the Time Turners being destroyed... there were also bell jars and other time inventions. Plus, someone made the Time Turners originally.... therefore someone could have potentially made more.

Plus, it was only the Ministries time turners that were destroyed. I'm sure someone (such as Dumbledore or the Malfoys) would have had their own time turners.


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Old August 18th, 2007, 5:31 am
Phil_Stone  Undisclosed.gif Phil_Stone is offline
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Re: What about time travel?

DDsHouseElf- I think JKR's intention was to use Hermione as an authority to take Time Turners off the table for literary purposes. She didn't want Harry or us thinkinig that he could save Sirius, or Dumbledore, for instance, by using Time.

While the Deatheater's access to the Ministry, even the Department of Mysteries, suggests they could have gotten one if they wanted, one can imagine Voldemort not trusting any Deatheaters with picking one up for him.
Of course if he could go back himself and listen to the Prophacy first hand, he might have saved himself a lot of trouble. But if Snape told him that Dumbledore had been there to hear it, he would naturally be reluctant to go there. And if he messed things up so that Snape didn't hear it, who knows what might have happened.


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Old August 18th, 2007, 6:16 am
bruja_mariel  Undisclosed.gif bruja_mariel is offline
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Re: What about time travel?

JKR uses the theory of time travel that many other SF and fantasy authors use (most notably Anne McCaffrey comes to mind). That theory is that time (or more precisely events in a time line) cannot be changed. What happens, happens and that's it. You can't go back in time to save someone who died because if you did, it meant you did and you failed and they died anyway. It's the theory that time is linear and you can go back and forth on the time line but the outcome is always the same. The past can not be changed. What some may perceive as change is not, it's just the way things happened.


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Old August 23rd, 2007, 6:31 am
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Re: What about time travel?

Time travel issues in all series get so bogged down that authors/writers generally refuse to answer in depth questions about it. I remember three starship captains in Star Trek all trying to explain things and ending up saying 'oh this time travel stuff always leaves me confused' or something of the sort once the issue got too deep. The fact of the matter is, because we are not currently using it in our society (except perhaps covert testing) authors can do whatever they want with it. It could change the past (superman) or not (JKR) or cause a dimensional shift so that those traveling think the past has changed (twilight zone), jump into the past and reinvent slightly it using a sun ray (stargate) or simply be the future yet uncreated (science spoof - where people zipped back and forth so much they left body pieces and parts behind). I think it makes for interesting discussion, but so many loop holes can be found in any of the variations that authors and writers use, they themselves cannot give a totally satisfactory answer about it all.


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Old December 9th, 2007, 5:40 am
Danigar  Undisclosed.gif Danigar is offline
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Time Travel Problem

Hello I'm new to the forum! and I have a question that I hope you can clear or enlighten for me, being the fans you are! I have to point first that I haven't finished reading the 7th book, but I think is not a problem for my question, since it has to do mostly with the 3rd and 6th. I really like Harry Potter, ever since I picked the 1st I was totally immersed, but there's something that for me ruined the whole series and since then I don't really enjoy it as much as I wish, and that's the time travel solution that we are shown in the third book. I'm aware is a fantasy book and as such is open to any kind of weird and magical solutions, but as I thought about it, I think the author should have never touched time travel, for me its a very complex and delicate matter.

What bothered me about using time travel is that when you think about it, if you have a time machine as a solution and a magical tool, why then it was never used again?? Is like the author totally forgot about it and for me is a big mistake cause no Horcruxes, no Hallows, nothing would be as powerful as controling time. Why Voldemor never became interested in it?? If it's ruled that you can't use it for your own good other than taking classes that are at the same time, do you think he would care about it? I mean he split his soul, and he took control of the Ministry, which I guess would have given him control of the time travel thingie. Why didn't he use it to go back at any time when they were with Harry and finish him??

And that's just from Voldemort's point of view! It bothers me even more that the "good guys" never thought about it either, and knowing that they used it once so they know of its existence and know how to use it. I mean if they used it to save Sirius Black, and we were all amazed with what happened in that book, (is even the favorite of many people including the movie) but for me it ruined it all!! Why, could someone explain to me, Why didn't they use it to save Dumbledore then?? Is sirius more important than Dumbledore? Or the little thingie banished from the school so it could only be used one time just for poor Hermione, what about other students that were as smart as her and wanted to take classes at the same time? All the things that could have been saved if only they have thought about that. What a big mistake imo, J.K should never have played with time!

And from there I think it's open to all kind of questions and details but I'll leave it like that. So what do you think?


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Old December 9th, 2007, 5:46 am
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Re: Time Travel Problem

It is never used again because it is so dangerous (Just read 'Hermione's Secret' to understand).

Jo also smashed the Time-Turners on purpose buring the Department of Mystries battle in OotP so Time Travel couldn't be returned to.


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Old December 9th, 2007, 7:07 am
mather  Male.gif mather is offline
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Re: Time Travel Problem

Like Arry said, they were smashed, and the trio wouldnt have had time to figure out how to make one, or if they did, to actually make one.


And as for Voldemort, why would he want to go back in time? He has not regretted anything he has done.

And almost forgot to mention, Welcome to the Forums, I hope you enjoy your stay!


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Old December 9th, 2007, 7:20 am
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Re: Time Travel Problem

I would assume that time traveling requires an immense amount of magic. You are referring to time turners, which can only revert the user back a day at maximum. What you are suggesting, that the trio time travel back almost 50 years earlier to ensure Voldemort would never have made his horcruxes is absurd. Not only is it probably magically impossible, it is also completely out of the picture. Think about it: In the 3rd installment, Harry and Hermione traveled back only 4 hours, and look at how many times they almost altered time by getting caught.

What you are implying is that the trio travel back in time 50 years, defeat Voldemort, and stay undercover for the remaining years until the moment they traveled back in time. If this were to happen, and you were looking at the trio time travel, they would be gone for a second, and in the next the trio would return 50 years older. And that's assuming that the trio wasn't seen at all.

Good idea, though. If you want to read a story that utilizes the theory of time travel rather adeptly, I recommend the fanfiction Harry Potter and the Nightmares of Futures Past by Viridian. If you click my signature pic, you find the link to this story on the resulting page.


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Old December 9th, 2007, 4:54 pm
Danigar  Undisclosed.gif Danigar is offline
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Re: Questions about time traveling

Hi thank you for you answers, interesting discussion you had here ^^ And well you're right about many things, I forgot about the smashing in the Ministry for instance, and well the whole time travel theory used by the author is quite understandable. But it still bothers me a little because as I said Voldemort could have become interested in that, and if its dangerous or something, well I dont think it would be more dangerous than spliting your soul is it? But well I understand that someone like Voldemort wouldn't want to change anything or regret anything at all, that's ok.

And no I'm not suggesting the 50 years travel that you said tuer3ssuci0. What I meant is that it COULD have been a solution, of course they couldn't change anything cause everything happened as it happened, but what I meant is that they could have thought about it and then save themselves a looot of effort and suffering. I meant that if they used to save Sirius how come no one thought about it with Dumbledore, or Dumbledore himself, if he was so clever in the PoA solution why didnt he use it with himself? And about the Time Turners being smashed in the battle, well didn't they have one at Hogwarts? What about the one they used in PoA, that's the one I meant, they completely forgot about it, and so I think there could have been more solutions like the one in PoA. And like DDsHouseElf, if such thing as Time turner exists then it has to be more anywhere not just at the Ministry.

PD: wow interesting stories tuer3ssuci0 I'll be checking them out


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