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Molly Weasley: Character Analysis



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  #201  
Old April 14th, 2012, 6:05 am
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by HedwigOwl View Post
I think that's correct, neither was in the first Order. But I believe Molly was too young, not quite of age (kind of like Ginny).
Molly is older than Harry's parents, Sirius and Lupin. The latter four were all in the first Order so I don't think Molly's age stopped her from joining the first Order. I'm guessing she was pregnant with Percy and the twins during that time.

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To be fair to Molly, Sirius threw out a few nasty comments himself, and in fact was the first to make a personal one, "He's not your son". At this point in time, Molly considered Harry to be part of their family -- not like her son, but pretty close. Molly has always been shown to be very protective of her own, and I wasn't surprised by the fierceness of her argument.
I actually thought Sirius was remarkably well-mannered for someone in his position. "He's not your son" wasn't a nasty comment, IMO. It was the truth and Sirius, as Harry's godfather, had full right to remind Molly of that. Sure she was very protective of Harry, but she had no right to override Sirius's decisions when it came to Harry. But I'm not even looking at that. It was the simple cruelty of her snipes at Sirius that really disconcerted me. Reminding Sirius that he hadn't been able to fulfill his role as Harry's godfather because he'd been locked up in Azkaban was totally uncalled for, IMO.

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Also, we need to keep in mind that Molly had lost family in the first war, and the possibility of losing more in this one was always on her mind; we see that clearly with the boggart incident before they leave Grimmauld.
She wasn't the only one who'd lost loved one's in the first war. Sirius had lost practically everyone and everything he'd loved. In that same Boggart scene you mention, Sirius comes in and stares at the empty spot where the Boggart-Harry had been pretending to be dead - suggesting that Sirius's biggest fear was losing Harry. Molly still had so many people to love, so many people who loved her back, so many people to call her own, she had the freedom to move about as she wished...and Sirius had only Harry. And it wasn't as if Sirius was trying to wrongly assert his right over Harry. Sirius and Harry had an extremely close bond, much closer than the one Harry shared with Molly IMO, and I think Molly couldn't understand that. She was right, yes, in reminding Sirius to not forget that Harry was a separate person from James, but she could have worded it much better, IMO. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, considering that Sirius was the one who'd led a pretty traumatizing life and Molly was the one who'd led the comparatively normal life, Sirius was very honorable during the fight (ie. he never made any personal snipes at Molly) whereas I thought Molly's words were pretty harsh and unfair.


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  #202  
Old April 14th, 2012, 1:36 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

Please keep the focus on Molly here, not Sirius.


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  #203  
Old April 17th, 2012, 5:55 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

Continued from the Feminism in DH thread:

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Of course she does. There was a great deal more to Molly than her role as a mother. Some may choose to ignore the rich character development we're given for Molly, but moments like this are significant to that development, IMO.
(My underlining)

Can you expand on this "rich character development" you are refering to? Because I can't find it. I see slight to moderate character development in that she goes from a woman utterly terrified of Voldemort to a woman who bucks up and joins a resistance movement but, frankly, this seems on par to me with the amount of character development Ernie MacMillan gets - perhaps even more character development since he overcomes his prejudice against Harry and even apologizes to his face for ever suspecting him of being the Heir of Slytherin, which is way more than Molly ever does for Sirius for whom she seems to hold a grudge against from the moment they meet to the moment he dies.

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The thing is, motherhood is the pinnacle of achievement. There is no greater achievment to be made than the ability to bring a new life into the world and nurture that life. Everything else pales in comparison. How can anyone possibley top the creation and birth of a new life? It is the single greatest thing a woman can do - and only a woman can do it. Men provide genetic material, but the process or creation and birth are only possible for a woman. There is nothing that can possibly compare to that, IMO.
Oooo, I so want to go there but I would so get kicked out of COS forums if I reply...

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However, that is not all that defines any woman. It's certainly not all that defines Molly's character. She is also a sister who lost two of her brothers in the first war and grieves for them. She's also a wife who loves and supports her husband - and argues with him. She's also a loving and supportive friend. She's also a fully active member of the Order of the Phoenix who risked her life on a daily basis in the fight against Voldemort. There were many facets to Molly's character presented.
There are many facets to Molly's character presented in the books but only one of those facets amounts a qualifiable amount of character development.

The fact that she had two brothers who died in the first war added a facet to her character but it didn't grow her character or develop her character in any way. It was a fact, a tidbit we were given so Molly wouldn't seem like a cardboard cut out.

She's a wife who loves and supports her husband but that relationship isn't used to grow or develop her character and that relationship more or less stays on the same level from the first book to the last. No change (for better or worse) is shown happening in their relationship throughout the series. (I'm actually thinking the rumor I heard about JKR thinking of killing off Arthur in OOTP would have been a great opportunity for character development for Molly.)

She's a loving supportive friend who aids in the character development of someone else.

The only facets listed above that amounts to character development for Molly is the fact that she joined the Order of the Phoenix showing her development from a frightened and worried woman who wanted to keep everything dangerous a hundred miles from touching her family to a woman who basically moves her family into the headquarters of an active resistance movement in order to take on an active role in that movement. Even then, though, I'd argue that she's doing it less in defense of her ideals and more with the mindset of "if I join maybe this will all get over faster." (As opposed to, say, James and Lily who, without the encumberance of a family, were likely fighting more in the defense of ideals)

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Harry's view of Molly was limited because he did not spend a great deal of time with her. He was a child without a mother and Molly became a surrogate mother to him. That's what he considered important about her. That's normal and to be expected from a child in such circumstances. It comes as a surprise to Harry when he realizes there are other facets to Molly simply because he never stopped to consider her in any other way. The reader is not so limited because there is enough information presented to understand all those things that Harry is ignoring.
Yes, but all the information presented to the reader is first filtered through Harry. The story is from his POV so unless we're being told this information about Molly in the chapter from Frank Bryce's POV or the Other Minister's POV, Harry knows everything the reader knows. The only difference is that the reader knows more in terms of the "story" because we get to see those Frank Bryce and Other Minister moments.


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  #204  
Old April 17th, 2012, 6:44 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio View Post
Can you expand on this "rich character development" you are refering to? Because I can't find it. I see slight to moderate character development in that she goes from a woman utterly terrified of Voldemort to a woman who bucks up and joins a resistance movement but, frankly, this seems on par to me with the amount of character development Ernie MacMillan gets - perhaps even more character development since he overcomes his prejudice against Harry and even apologizes to his face for ever suspecting him of being the Heir of Slytherin, which is way more than Molly ever does for Sirius for whom she seems to hold a grudge against from the moment they meet to the moment he dies.
In my opinion, Molly is a static character, which is what we might expect from a secondary, and adult, character of the series. Typically, main characters and antagonists may be dynamic (the opposite of static), I do not think anyone is arguing Molly is a dynamic character in the sense that Harry, or Snape, or Dumbledore, or Neville, might be said to be (to name some more major characters who have fairly extensive page time).

This means she does not undergo really significant changes throughout the series. This does not, however, prevent her from being a well-developed static character, that is, a static character about whom we learn a lot and come to understand.

So what do we learn? I will start with what you note:

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The fact that she had two brothers who died in the first war added a facet to her character but it didn't grow her character or develop her character in any way. It was a fact, a tidbit we were given so Molly wouldn't seem like a cardboard cut out.
It explains the roots of her fearfulness for her children and Harry, and it provides a motivation for her opposition to Voldemort. This is what makes a static character well-developed - that her actions flow logically out of who she is as it has been presented to us.

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She's a wife who loves and supports her husband but that relationship isn't used to grow or develop her character and that relationship more or less stays on the same level from the first book to the last.
But our understanding of it deepens, and may change, as the result of revelations that are shown over the course of the series even while they do not indicate a change in Molly. For example, based on early books I know some readers wondered whether she did indeed love Arthur, and he her, or whether they were staying together "for the children". Molly can seem strident, and Arthur can seem intimidated by her, or disrespectful of her, based on her seeming disgust/worry about such things as Arthur's flying car. But over time we learn, for example, that they still use pet names for one another, and there is subtle hinting they still have an active physical love life (I am thinking mostly of things in HBP here).


There are, after all, different ways to be a loving and supportive wife. Look at Narcissa (in my opinion, the most obvious foil to Molly). She obviously takes far greater care of her appearance, and maintains a public deference to her husband (even while we learn in time that he relies on her strength in times of trouble). She is a different sort of loving and supportive wife, consistent in her different way as Molly is, in my opinion.

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She's a loving supportive friend who aids in the character development of someone else.
I am sorry, I am not sure which someone else you mean...

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Even then, though, I'd argue that she's doing it less in defense of her ideals and more with the mindset of "if I join maybe this will all get over faster." (As opposed to, say, James and Lily who, without the encumberance of a family, were likely fighting more in the defense of ideals)
I would like to know what specific things in the text led you to this conclusion. I do not see it. James and Lily were young, beautiful, and tragic, while Molly is prosaic and plump, but I don't see that we have more objective reason to believe in their idealism than in hers.

Molly worries over the safety of her children and of Harry, yes. But I ask myself, why Harry? He is not her son, and yet she more or less adopts him, even as his various adventures suck Ron into all sorts of dangers. She is, in short, altrusitic.

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The only difference is that the reader knows more in terms of the "story" because we get to see those Frank Bryce and Other Minister moments.
No, the other difference is that the reader may be actively cognizant of aspects of Molly's character based on Harry's reporting of the facts, while Harry remains blissfully ignorant. This can result from the reader having experiences Harry has not had (female readers who are married and mothers would fall into this group, which might color their understanding of Molly and her relationship with Arthur especially in the early going before Harry starts to grow up and notice subtleties himself), or from readers lending greater weight to things that are mentioned only casually by Harry. (Molly's being in the guard duty rotation in OotP would be an example of the latter).

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Originally Posted by StarryVeil View Post
Reminding Sirius that he hadn't been able to fulfill his role as Harry's godfather because he'd been locked up in Azkaban was totally uncalled for, IMO.
I am not sure how else she should have expressed her opinion, which in I believe was that Sirius did not have a sound basis on which to believe he knew what was best for Harry.

Harry and Sirius loved each other, Harry was devastated to lose him, but they knew one another for a total of one year at the time of the conversation, during most of which time they never saw each other and rarely wrote. I believe Molly was aware of this dearth of contact between them. In contrast, she had by this point known Harry for four years, and hosted Harry in her home for overnight visits lasting days or weeks on more than one occasion (most of August in CoS, roughly a week in August during GoF), and her children were his friends and presumably talked about him.


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  #205  
Old April 17th, 2012, 10:15 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by arithmancer View Post
In my opinion, Molly is a static character, which is what we might expect from a secondary, and adult, character of the series. Typically, main characters and antagonists may be dynamic (the opposite of static), I do not think anyone is arguing Molly is a dynamic character in the sense that Harry, or Snape, or Dumbledore, or Neville, might be said to be (to name some more major characters who have fairly extensive page time).

This means she does not undergo really significant changes throughout the series. This does not, however, prevent her from being a well-developed static character, that is, a static character about whom we learn a lot and come to understand.
I think so too. I never really saw Molly as a very major character who needed to develop and without whose development the books would remain incomplete. For the role she had to play – Harry’s best friend’s mother who provides occasional warmth and comfort to him – I think she was fleshed out fine. She is, in short, a devoted family woman and that’s what we get. The focus of the story would have gotten lost, IMO, if JKR had set out to show development in all of her secondary characters.

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I am not sure how else she should have expressed her opinion, which in I believe was that Sirius did not have a sound basis on which to believe he knew what was best for Harry.
I’ve been asked not to focus too much on Sirius when this topic comes up, so I’m going to try really hard not to make this too much about him.

Before, Molly makes her you-were-in-Azkaban-so-you-couldn’t-take-care-of-Harry comment, she had already made a number of snipes at Sirius that were personal in nature. She’d insinuated that Sirius was an irresponsible godfather, sort of patronizingly reminded Sirius of his own instructions from DD, and hinted that he had difficulty mentally differentiating Harry from James. Then, she asks him “Who else has he (Harry) got?” – displaying, IMO, the fact that she couldn’t care less about Harry and Sirius’s relationship. I think she was wrong in being so aggressive and dismissive of the godfather-godson bond when Sirius, on his part, doesn’t make any sort of personal attack towards her.

And then, after that, she goes and makes the comment in question. Molly knew perfectly well that Sirius hadn’t done anything to go to Azkaban but she still used his imprisonment as a (underhanded, IMO) weapon to make Sirius feel guilty and shut him up. Her lip is described to be “curling” when she says this – a common phrasing JKR uses to describe Snape’s mouth when he’s making some unfavorable comment. This shows, IMO, that Molly’s feelings at that point were not simply concern for Harry, but spite for Sirius. IMO, her behavior throughout this scene was not at all what one would expect from a sensible, compassionate mother of seven.

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Harry and Sirius loved each other, Harry was devastated to lose him, but they knew one another for a total of one year at the time of the conversation, during most of which time they never saw each other and rarely wrote. I believe Molly was aware of this dearth of contact between them. In contrast, she had by this point known Harry for four years, and hosted Harry in her home for overnight visits lasting days or weeks on more than one occasion (most of August in CoS, roughly a week in August during GoF), and her children were his friends and presumably talked about him.
And yet Harry had never confided in nor had the desire to confide in Molly as he had in Sirius. He always related to Sirius much more than he did to Molly. Even when Harry lived at the Burrow during the holidays, I didn’t really see him and Molly bonding more than what would occur over meals and chores. Sort of like your relationship with your best friend’s mom. Not that profound. I am, therefore, of the opinion that Sirius understood Harry much more than Molly ever did. And in the end, he was the one who turned out to be right, wasn't he? Even DD admits that Harry should have been told the full truth from the beginning, instead of being protected from it like Molly was suggesting he should.


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  #206  
Old April 17th, 2012, 11:09 pm
Goddess_Clio  Female.gif Goddess_Clio is offline
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by arithmancer View Post
In my opinion, Molly is a static character, which is what we might expect from a secondary, and adult, character of the series. Typically, main characters and antagonists may be dynamic (the opposite of static), I do not think anyone is arguing Molly is a dynamic character in the sense that Harry, or Snape, or Dumbledore, or Neville, might be said to be (to name some more major characters who have fairly extensive page time).

This means she does not undergo really significant changes throughout the series. This does not, however, prevent her from being a well-developed static character, that is, a static character about whom we learn a lot and come to understand.
I agree 100% with your statement that Molly is a static character, I was asking, in regards to Meesha's statement (sorry, I forgot to include the "Originally posted by:" tag when I quoted her) that Molly received "rich character development," what Meesha was refering to when she made that statement.

I believe Molly is a rounded character in that we receive information regarding her motivations for feeling the way the does about things (as you outline in your post) that keep her from, as I said, becoming a total cardboard cutout character or a stereotype. But you're right, she is a background character and receives about as much character development as a background character should really get, in other words: not that much.

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I am sorry, I am not sure which someone else you mean...
I was refering to her comforting Tonks who is another character with minimal character development but also little need to develop her character.

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I would like to know what specific things in the text led you to this conclusion. I do not see it. James and Lily were young, beautiful, and tragic, while Molly is prosaic and plump, but I don't see that we have more objective reason to believe in their idealism than in hers.
It's more an impression I get than something I could quote text on. And I should really add to my statement:

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Even then, though, I'd argue that she's doing it less in defense of her ideals and more with the mindset of "if I join maybe this will all get over faster [and I can minimize the amount of time my family is exposed to war and danger]."
To me, unencumbered by a family, it seems that James and Lily joined the Order of the Phonix to defend the ideals of equality. They joined seemingly without hesitation and right out of school when they were young, full of ideas about how they can change the world (ah, remember those days?? ) and weren't scared about anything, really, because each knew that those ideals were something the other was willing to die for.

Then there's Molly who didn't join the first Order (for good reason, she was swamped in babies) but who did join the second as an adult, with no illusions of changing the world and scared $#!^less that she would lose her entire family in the process of fighting this second war. Her boggart, after all, was her husband and children dying. I'm not saying her desire to join the Order and end the war as fast as she could make happen is a bad thing, it just the impression I have of Molly's motivations isn't that she joined to defend the ideals of equality but to hasten the end of the war so she could give her family the best chance of coming out of the situation in one piece and that her making the decision to join the Order of the Phoenix amounts to just about all the character development we get from her in the books.


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Originally posted by: StarryVeil
Reminding Sirius that he hadn't been able to fulfill his role as Harry's godfather because he'd been locked up in Azkaban was totally uncalled for, IMO.
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Originally Posted by arithmancer View Post
I am not sure how else she should have expressed her opinion, which in I believe was that Sirius did not have a sound basis on which to believe he knew what was best for Harry.
I agree with both posters here. Molly did feel she had the right to speak up for Harry having known him better and longer than a man who happened to be his legal guardian and only met him once before and who had shared, at most, a handful of letters with him.

On the other hand, I think Molly's handling of the situation was way overboard and, as StarryVeil says, verging on behavior that was uncalled for. Molly, being the most adult person in the argument , should not have lost her patience with Sirius like that and should have been able to put together a calmer, more formulated argument and she never should have gone below the belt by pointing out that the reason Sirius was absent from Harry's life was because he had been in prison. That was a low blow and I personally lost a lot of respect and liking for Molly when she did that.


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  #207  
Old April 18th, 2012, 3:49 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by arithmancer View Post
This means she does not undergo really significant changes throughout the series. This does not, however, prevent her from being a well-developed static character, that is, a static character about whom we learn a lot and come to understand.
To me a well developed character is a character which has more than one aspect to them. For that reason I don't think Molly qualifies. She is an overprotective mother and not much else, IMO. I don't mean that as a put down, I'm just saying that's her main role in the series in my view. Now of course I understand that not all characters can be developed properly and that some of them will remain in the background and be relatively underdeveloped. But I also think that Arthur for example is a more complex character than Molly and with more interests, personality traits and goals while not being more important to the story than Molly. Quite the contrary actually. I consider Molly to be a more important character than Arthur as she underlines the theme of motherhood in the series.


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Old April 18th, 2012, 6:26 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Sereena View Post
To me a well developed character is a character which has more than one aspect to them. For that reason I don't think Molly qualifies. She is an overprotective mother and not much else, IMO.
This is an opinion that ignores the evidence that has been presented by several posters. She does have more than one aspect to her, even if being an "overprotective mother" is the greatest one of them. She is also shown to be an Order member and fighter for the Order, she is shown to be a loving wife, she is shown to have hobbies and interests (we know a favorite writer, singer, and activity of Molly's).

Furthermore, I would argue that a well-developed character could even be one with a single aspect, (which Molly is not anyway, IMO). Not all "overprotective mothers" are the same. Saying Molly is an "overprotective mother" does not tell us nearly all that that books tell us about her. The series in fact presents us with two "overprotective mothers", the other one I have in mind being Narcissa Malfoy. They are very different people, with different political views, different levels of involvement in the war, and different approaches to protecting their children. And we are given enough information, as I see it, to understand where their differences are coming from and what consequences they are likely to have.


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  #209  
Old April 18th, 2012, 9:58 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by arithmancer View Post
This is an opinion that ignores the evidence that has been presented by several posters.
I'm not ignoring anything, I'm just saying that for me her being an Order member doesn't mean she gets character development. She is shown as doing the same things for the Order she does at home (cleaning, preparing meals, etc) and acting the same way (protecting the children, especially Harry). She has just about the same role but in a different context. Yes, we know she does other things for the Order as well, I'm not contesting that. But one line in book five saying she helps guard the Prophecy is not enough for me personally. Her big shining moment is after all related to her motherly love once again. It's not that this is a bad thing and I don't dislike her or anything but I just feel like I'm seeing the same side of her in every context in which she is put.
(For the record, I don't see Narcissa as being very well developed either. She gets the same treatment from the author as Molly I think.)

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Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio
Then there's Molly who didn't join the first Order (for good reason, she was swamped in babies) but who did join the second as an adult, with no illusions of changing the world and scared $#!^less that she would lose her entire family in the process of fighting this second war. Her boggart, after all, was her husband and children dying. I'm not saying her desire to join the Order and end the war as fast as she could make happen is a bad thing, it just the impression I have of Molly's motivations isn't that she joined to defend the ideals of equality but to hasten the end of the war so she could give her family the best chance of coming out of the situation in one piece and that her making the decision to join the Order of the Phoenix amounts to just about all the character development we get from her in the books.
Exactly. This is what I meant as well except you put it more eloquently. I think Molly's motivations for joining the Order can be discussed but even if we were to agree that she joined out of a desire to fight for equality and against bigotry the problem is still that we never see her either expressing this in this any way nor fighting for something other than out of personal motivation.

Let me give an example of what I mean by well developed character just to clarify even though I may be going a bit OT. Dumbledore is shown as being more than Harry grandfatherly mentor. He is also a person with a tragic past, from a broken home, who is trying to overcome his dark side. While Harry and the fight against Voldemort are important to him we are shown that it isn't all he is about. He has his own story arc within Harry's story (which, again, I understand that not all characters can have but I' just trying to explain myself properly).


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Old April 19th, 2012, 4:35 am
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Sereena View Post
Let me give an example of what I mean by well developed character just to clarify even though I may be going a bit OT. Dumbledore is shown as being more than Harry grandfatherly mentor. He is also a person with a tragic past, from a broken home, who is trying to overcome his dark side. While Harry and the fight against Voldemort are important to him we are shown that it isn't all he is about. He has his own story arc within Harry's story (which, again, I understand that not all characters can have but I' just trying to explain myself properly).
A discussion of Molly's character development along side Dumbledore's could be interesting because one could argue that Dumbledore began and ended the story basically playing the same role throughout the story (his role being the leader of the resistance movement) just as Molly begins and ends the story in the same role.

I think, aside from the obvious difference in the amount of page time Dumbledore gets versus what Molly gets, Dumbledore is given character development through his heart to hearts with Harry where he sort of explains his actions. It's during those moments that you realize that he made big mistakes in regards to Harry and Voldemort and that he learned from them, hence he had character growth throughout the books. Molly is never really shown in a similar situation where she makes a mistake, learns from it and becomes a better, different or more informed or aware person at the end of the book because of what she learned.

In these kinds of terms the amount of page time one character got versus the other is kind of irrelevant because Molly could have gotten three scenes in the book which would amount to the entirety of her character growth and the readers would at least have gotten something. The three scenes would be Molly in a state of pre-change status quo, Molly doing something which causes her to learn some kind of lesson, Molly, later, recalling that lesson and putting it to use in her final scene. This could have happened with her encounter with Sirius in OOTP or could have related in some way to her grand finale duel with Bellatrix. It's not much and I'm not saying it would totally satisfy readers but it would be something we could talk about in terms of her getting character development. Dumbledore, on the other hand, is shown making mistakes and learning from them, even if we are only told of these mistakes and lessons periodically in his and Harry's little tete a tetes. The point is, we heard about them at all. We didn't hear anything about Molly.


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Old April 19th, 2012, 6:25 am
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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I'm not ignoring anything, I'm just saying that for me her being an Order member doesn't mean she gets character development. She is shown as doing the same things for the Order she does at home (cleaning, preparing meals, etc) and acting the same way (protecting the children, especially Harry). She has just about the same role but in a different context. Yes, we know she does other things for the Order as well, I'm not contesting that. But one line in book five saying she helps guard the Prophecy is not enough for me personally.
Molly doesn't "help" with guard duty, she takes a full turn on her own, with only her wits & magical skills to rely on. I also disagree that character development necessitates great variances from perceived roles. Taking care of people is just as valuable as guard duty at the DOM....in fact, it might be more important; it's difficult to win a war if your troops aren't properly fed. Also, I always got the impression that Molly's cooking skills were better than average, and as she didn't mind taking on the task, why not?


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Old April 19th, 2012, 3:21 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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Molly doesn't "help" with guard duty, she takes a full turn on her own, with only her wits & magical skills to rely on.
I may be wrong (Sereena feel free to corect me if I've mistaken your use of the word 'help' here ) but I think the word 'helped' was not used to denigrate what we know Molly did but rather as referance to the fact that there was a team of Order members all taking turns guarding the prophecy - ie every Order member helped to to the job; Molly help, Dumbledore helped, Arthur helped Kingsley helped, etc and by working together the Order managed to be very effective for almost a whole year - just how it seemed to me


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Old April 19th, 2012, 3:59 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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I may be wrong (Sereena feel free to corect me if I've mistaken your use of the word 'help' here ) but I think the word 'helped' was not used to denigrate what we know Molly did but rather as referance to the fact that there was a team of Order members all taking turns guarding the prophecy - ie every Order member helped to to the job; Molly help, Dumbledore helped, Arthur helped Kingsley helped, etc and by working together the Order managed to be very effective for almost a whole year - just how it seemed to me
Yes exactly. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

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Taking care of people is just as valuable as guard duty at the DOM....in fact, it might be more important; it's difficult to win a war if your troops aren't properly fed. Also, I always got the impression that Molly's cooking skills were better than average, and as she didn't mind taking on the task, why not?
I would argue that how efficient and valuable Molly is to the Order is irrelevant in terms of character development. Characters who make bad choices and are bad people can also be developed. Petunia for example certainly lacks Molly's kindness, mothering skills and not to mention her magical ability. But she is in my opinion a character which receives more character development. We are actually shown different sides of her personality. She isn't just Harry's snotty and bigoted aunt, she also hides a bitterness at having been rejected by the wizarding world. There is more to her than meets the eye. Molly on the other hand is rather straight forward: she has a maternal personality which influences and reflects in everything she does. Like Clio pointed out even her joining the Order can be connected to her love for her famliy. There is nothing wrong with that of course, she is portrayed in a very positive manner. But she lacks the depth that some other characters recieve.

Just my opinion of course. I should also state that perhaps I am confusing character development with character complexity and that's probably I'm disagreeing instead of agreeing.


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Old April 20th, 2012, 6:52 am
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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I would argue that how efficient and valuable Molly is to the Order is irrelevant in terms of character development. Characters who make bad choices and are bad people can also be developed. Petunia for example certainly lacks Molly's kindness, mothering skills and not to mention her magical ability. But she is in my opinion a character which receives more character development. We are actually shown different sides of her personality. She isn't just Harry's snotty and bigoted aunt, she also hides a bitterness at having been rejected by the wizarding world. There is more to her than meets the eye. Molly on the other hand is rather straight forward: she has a maternal personality which influences and reflects in everything she does. Like Clio pointed out even her joining the Order can be connected to her love for her famliy. There is nothing wrong with that of course, she is portrayed in a very positive manner. But she lacks the depth that some other characters recieve.

Just my opinion of course. I should also state that perhaps I am confusing character development with character complexity and that's probably I'm disagreeing instead of agreeing.
I would like to point out, though, that we don't find out about Petunia's issue about being unable to participate in the magical world when Lily is about to leave for Hogwarts until we see it in Snape's memories at the end of DH. It's never shown on page, and we only get a tiny hint of it when she blurts out that the dementors guard Azkaban. Otherwise Petunia is pretty much the same character throughout, we never see her develop/become more complex, even when she & her family have to leave at the start of DH for their own protection. She is still unable to move out of her rigidly constructed "normal" world, and say goodbye to Harry as Lily's son. So I see that no different than Molly's characterization. We simply see Molly in that role most often (just like Petunia).


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Old April 20th, 2012, 7:03 am
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

What did Molly do for the Order besides standing guard and taking down Bellatrix in the end?


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Old April 20th, 2012, 7:13 am
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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What did Molly do for the Order besides standing guard and taking down Bellatrix in the end?
Cooked their meals and cleaned up Grimmauld Place.


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Old April 20th, 2012, 9:24 am
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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What did Molly do for the Order besides standing guard and taking down Bellatrix in the end?
You mean besides doing what the other members did in terms of active duty and taking out Voldemort's most dangerous murderer. Well like Snapewitch just said, she made sure they didn't die of starvation and that they had a clean place to live. I wonder what the Order did for Molly sometimes. Did any of them volunteer to cook the supper so she could sit down and relax? Just because it was housework didn't mean it wasn't hard work.


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Old April 20th, 2012, 1:19 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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Cooked their meals and cleaned up Grimmauld Place.
And (although even Muggle cleaning is an essential task that IMO is often undervalued) I think it's important to remember that cleaning Grimmauld Place involved ridding it of hazardous Dark Magic - I imagine that Molly would have to be highly skilled in DADA to do it so effectively.


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Old April 20th, 2012, 5:28 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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I would like to point out, though, that we don't find out about Petunia's issue about being unable to participate in the magical world when Lily is about to leave for Hogwarts until we see it in Snape's memories at the end of DH. It's never shown on page, and we only get a tiny hint of it when she blurts out that the dementors guard Azkaban. Otherwise Petunia is pretty much the same character throughout, we never see her develop/become more complex, even when she & her family have to leave at the start of DH for their own protection. She is still unable to move out of her rigidly constructed "normal" world, and say goodbye to Harry as Lily's son. So I see that no different than Molly's characterization. We simply see Molly in that role most often (just like Petunia).
But we find out about them through the course of the books. The point isn't when we see the character development (a lot of Dumbledore's character development in terms of his back story doesn't happen until DH either) the point is that we saw it at all. With Molly we never see it at all and the only character development I attribute to her is entirely through inference and is never plainly stated in the books.

Uncle Vernon gets more character development than Molly does as he's almost willing to shake Harry's hand at their good bye in DH. This tiny aborted gesture shows he has come miles and miles from where he was at the beginning of the books.

Dudley gets more character development between OOTP and his last scene in DH. Dudley only gets like two additional scenes after OOTP: When he asked why Harry isn't coming with him and his parents in DH and when Dumbledore comes to collect Harry in HBP so most of his character development happens off page. Molly got way more page time that Dudley but Dudely gets way more character development than Molly.


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Old April 20th, 2012, 6:18 pm
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Re: Molly Weasley: Character Analysis

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But we find out about them through the course of the books. The point isn't when we see the character development (a lot of Dumbledore's character development in terms of his back story doesn't happen until DH either) the point is that we saw it at all. With Molly we never see it at all and the only character development I attribute to her is entirely through inference and is never plainly stated in the books.

Uncle Vernon gets more character development than Molly does as he's almost willing to shake Harry's hand at their good bye in DH. This tiny aborted gesture shows he has come miles and miles from where he was at the beginning of the books.

Dudley gets more character development between OOTP and his last scene in DH. Dudley only gets like two additional scenes after OOTP: When he asked why Harry isn't coming with him and his parents in DH and when Dumbledore comes to collect Harry in HBP so most of his character development happens off page. Molly got way more page time that Dudley but Dudely gets way more character development than Molly.
I don't know, Molly always seemed to be a fully rounded character to me. Very much like McGonagall. No, there isn't much change in her character, but then I don't think we need any. Molly is shown to be a grown woman who is confident in her skills and with her family. She has faults, just like all of us, but nothing too bad. Yeah, she could have been nicer to Sirius. I agree, but Molly doesn't back down when she thinks she is in the right and it concerns her children. I like it that she considered Harry as one of her's. The scene between Sirius and Molly always seemd to me like divorced parents arguing about their child. They were both convinced they were in the right and not willing to budge. Was it the best way to behave, no it wasn't. What it was, was very human. You would always know where you stood with Molly because she didn't hide anything. She was a very tough mother, Bella found that out the hard way.


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