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Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis



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  #21  
Old July 24th, 2007, 8:13 pm
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

Kreacher describing his experience with the potion, and Regulus's actions afterwards, was one of the most shattering parts of the story for me, because you could see that twisted as he might have been, he was capable of genuinely caring for and respecting those who treated him with kindness.
And yes, I did have a seriously horrible few moments wondering if the Death Eaters would get their hands on Kreacher once Hermione Apparated in with the Death Eater. It's touching how fast the turnaround came- it's heartbreaking to see just how much he loved Regulus. It's a pity Sirius never realised he could earn that affection, too.


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Old July 24th, 2007, 9:01 pm
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

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Originally Posted by SageThyme View Post
1) How critical was the discovery of R.A.B's identity to the improved relationship between the Trio and Kreacher?


2) Kreacher underwent a dramatic change of attitude once presented with the locket. Which is the real Kreacher ~ the one before presentation of the locket or the one after?


3) What does the future hold for Kreacher?
1. Extremely important. The fact that the Trio and RAB turned out to be on the same side is IMO what the whole thing hinges on. With that he was able to see that these people was not his enemies, but they was people who in fact helped RAB to fulfill what he had died for: The defeat of Voldemort.

2. Both. Kreacher is most likely quite a hateful and bitter little house-elf. He will behave horribly towards anybody he seems as not being on his side. He will however behave like a very nice and obedient little angel towards people that he DO see as being on his side. He isn't really very nice at all. He is just much nicer if he is on your side. :-)

3. I'm guessing Harry will offer him his freedom, because after the defeat of Voldemort the secrets he knows doesn't need keeping anymore. He will probably feel too old and whiny to take up on the offer, but continue to take care of the old house. If he knows how to take down the portrait of Ms Black (and agrees to do it), Harry and Ginny might even move in there.

The idea that Winky and Kreacher gets together is cute, but... nah... I always hoped Rowling would find a solution for Winky. The solution could be easy: Since Winky is free, somebody can pay money to Winky for Winky. Basically buy her from herself. I'd always hoped this would be Mrs Weasley, she needs the help. But alas, that didn't happen. The greatest lack in the books IMO. As far as we know Winky is still a drunk house-elf at hogwarts.


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  #23  
Old July 24th, 2007, 9:18 pm
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

1) How critical was the discovery of R.A.B's identity to the improved relationship between the Trio and Kreacher?

I thought it wasn't important - they had pretty much worked that out when they saw his name scrawled on his door (Regulus Arcturus Black). The backstory would have been lost to them, however, without Kreacher.

2) Kreacher underwent a dramatic change of attitude once presented with the locket. Which is the real Kreacher ~ the one before presentation of the locket or the one after?

Both are the real Kreacher. As commented in HP&HBP, Kreacher had been alone for many years. Once people show up, he is treated like dirt and given no reason to care about them. However, he immediately responded to a bit of kindness. So, I would say that Kreacher's character was very consistent in that he responded to the way he was treated or mistreated.

3) What does the future hold for Kreacher?[/quote]

A future in the Potter household! He had definitely shown his affection and attachment to Harry for Harry's single act of kindness (giving him Regulus' locket). Can't think of any reason he wouldn't have been a welcome and permanent fixture in the Potter household.

A nitpicky observation: I was thinking that it would have been wise to have a Plan B in the event that they didn't make it back to 12 Grimmauld. Part of that Plan B would include how Kreacher might find/contact them if they didn't make it back, without putting themselves at risk. Was a bit heartless of them not to have some means of alerting and/or saving Kreacher from nasty Death Eaters in the event their hideout was discovered. Kreacher is a survivor and I comforted myself to think that he would have disapparated immediately once Death Eaters entered 12 Grimmauld. I didn't like the idea of Kreacher being tortured for information.


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  #24  
Old July 25th, 2007, 5:59 pm
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

1) How critical was the discovery of R.A.B's identity to the improved relationship between the Trio and Kreacher?

Very. Kreacher loved Regulus; he was happy to talk about him and delighted to get something that belonged to him.

2) Kreacher underwent a dramatic change of attitude once presented with the locket. Which is the real Kreacher ~ the one before presentation of the locket or the one after?

I think the one after is the real Kreacher, because he is actually enjoying serving Harry, and likes him as a master, he is more likely to show his true colors.

3) What does the future hold for Kreacher?

I think the future holds a nice, comfortable job in the sevice of Harry, who will actually treat him well. I think he would like that.


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  #25  
Old July 28th, 2007, 8:24 pm
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

I think both sides were "the real Kreacher" in some sense. The one before is how he acts when you don't treat him very well or show him any respect. But if you are nice to him then he can be a very useful creature; cooking, cleaning, and basically being useful all-around. And, in the future? I don't know if he's going to go work for Harry because, as we saw in DH, he was already working at Hogwarts. I don't know if Harry was still his master after abandoning him early in the book, or if the Headmaster of the school is his master from now on.


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  #26  
Old July 28th, 2007, 8:48 pm
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

1) How critical was the discovery of R.A.B's identity to the improved relationship between the Trio and Kreacher?

I don't think the discovery of who R.A.B.'s identity in and of itself is as important to the improved relationship as the deiscovery that through out all of this Kreacher has been extremely loyal to Regulus. That Harry and Ron upon learning what LV did to Kreacher (making him drink the potion and leaving him for dead) has finally made both boys open their eyes to what Hermione has been saying all along. House-Elves do have feelings and they deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Just because they are here to clean your homes and do your bidding doesn't mean you need to treat them like dung on your shoe.

2) Kreacher underwent a dramatic change of attitude once presented with the locket. Which is the real Kreacher ~ the one before presentation of the locket or the one after?

The one after the locket. Kreacher always just needed to know that his master needed him and respected him. Had Sirius ever treated Kreacher the way Regulus and Mrs. Black had then Kreacher never would have betrayed Sirius. Sadly though Sirius saw Kreacher as being tied to everything he hated about being in the House of Black.


3) What does the future hold for Kreacher?

My hope is he is a much loved house elf in the Potter household. That Harry, Ginny and their children treasure him and treat him as if he is part of the family.


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  #27  
Old July 29th, 2007, 5:55 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

As I was reading Deathly Hallows, it struck me as odd how much Kreacher's character changed. He went from despising Hermione to being very celebrated seeing her. He also completely disrespected Harry while at the same time doing his house-elfly duties of doing what he said. I think JK had a point by making the ultimate oxy-moron by having Sirius say to Harry, see how someone treats their inferiors, not equals---as he repeatedly was annoyed and disrespectful to Kreacher because Kreacher reminded him so much of his home life. I think the best use of Kreacher that was reminisced in the book was when Regalus told Kreacher to go with Lord Voldemort, but told him to come back afterwards----"Master is the highest law in the land. I love how JK pays so much attention to detail.


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  #28  
Old July 29th, 2007, 6:45 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

Personally, I loved the way Kreacher changed. I thought it was pretty cool how he grew to like Harry pretty quickly. And I don't think it was that odd if you consider that Harry gave him the locket, probably the first present he had ever gotten from a wizard, as well as one of the most meaningful gifts he could give him.



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  #29  
Old July 29th, 2007, 6:51 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrovir View Post
I think both sides were "the real Kreacher" in some sense. The one before is how he acts when you don't treat him very well or show him any respect. But if you are nice to him then he can be a very useful creature; cooking, cleaning, and basically being useful all-around. And, in the future? I don't know if he's going to go work for Harry because, as we saw in DH, he was already working at Hogwarts. I don't know if Harry was still his master after abandoning him early in the book, or if the Headmaster of the school is his master from now on.
Kreacher was very abused - he was made to drink that awful potion, and then he punished himself constantly for being unable to destroy the locket. I think the Kreacher we saw in OotP was a result of that constant abuse.


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  #30  
Old August 24th, 2007, 6:16 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

1) How critical was the discovery of R.A.B's identity to the improved relationship between the Trio and Kreacher?
Very important, I think, because it established an understanding between them and the House Elf. Once they found out who RAB was and the whole story of Voldemort leaving Kreacher to die, they were able to appreciate what both Kreacher and Regulus had been through. In the end, this discovery paved the way for the trio to feel more empathy for Kreacher, thus causing them to treat him better.

2) Kreacher underwent a dramatic change of attitude once presented with the locket. Which is the real Kreacher ~ the one before presentation of the locket or the one after?
I think it depends on how he is treated. If he's treated with neglect and bitterness, I think his behavior would reflect that. But once he was treated with respect, his attitude changed accordingly. I agree that it was really amazing to see how much Kreacher's character changed once he wasn't being treated like an inferior. He really was abused quite a bit over the years, and his experience with the horcrux must have been very traumatic. I think talking about it might have helped Kreacher in dealing with that experience.

3) What does the future hold for Kreacher?
Perhaps he remained in Harry's employ until his death. He was a pretty old elf, so perhaps he died sometime after the events of DH. I think he and the trio would have remained on good terms in any case, though I don't think Kreacher would have been ready for freedom during his lifetime.


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  #31  
Old August 24th, 2007, 12:52 pm
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

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Originally Posted by Murzim View Post
None of the inhabitants of Grimmauld place really cared about K in OotP. Hermione gave him a plaid! She never tried to find out what K wanted or to aknowledge that they might have been good masters.
Why throw all those heirlooms away, if there was someone who really valued them ? It was not unlike the Dursleys never allowing young Harry any memories of or show any respect for his family.
So it was really easy to get on the good side of Kreacher, just think for one moment what he was through and what he wanted
What I found truly horrible when reading OotP was the Santa hats thing, putting those hats onto the heads of Kreacher's dead family. It was like giving them clothes after their deaths, desecrating them in death. I was really astonished and shocked that not a single human being in that house considered how awful that must have been for Kreacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saiorri View Post
I think JK had a point by making the ultimate oxy-moron by having Sirius say to Harry, see how someone treats their inferiors, not equals---as he repeatedly was annoyed and disrespectful to Kreacher because Kreacher reminded him so much of his home life. I think the best use of Kreacher that was reminisced in the book was when Regalus told Kreacher to go with Lord Voldemort, but told him to come back afterwards----"Master is the highest law in the land. I love how JK pays so much attention to detail.
Excellent catch, I hadn't even thought of that. Was that the same chapter in which Sirius speaks about his 'foolish little brother', who was just too 'insignificant' to suppose that Voldemort had killed him personally?


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  #32  
Old September 22nd, 2007, 10:32 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

Kreacher's problem reminded me of HAL in 2001.....HAL knew the mission, but couldn't tell the crew of Discovery, as he'd been forced...not to, by Mission Control.
Kreacher knew about Regalus but couldn't tell his mistress, as he wasn't supposed to know where his master was! And also, he couldn't destroy the locket, punishing himself for it!
Would Harry give him his freedom...probably, but I think Kreacher would rather serve Harry.


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  #33  
Old September 22nd, 2007, 10:46 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

1) How critical was the discovery of R.A.B's identity to the improved relationship between the Trio and Kreacher?

Very important. After all, it helped discover and destroy a Horcrux. Also, when Kreacher was telling the Trio his story, I think it widened Ron's eyes in the way of how House-Elves are treated, as he was always the one who disagreed with Hermione about it the most.

2) Kreacher underwent a dramatic change of attitude once presented with the locket. Which is the real Kreacher ~ the one before presentation of the locket or the one after?

It's all a matter of how he is treated and whether he is respected. If someone is kind to him, he will be kind back. However, if someone treats him with disrespect he has learnt to retort back and become a vulgar creature. I definitely prefer the new Kreacher I think the main reason for his change was the potion and the overall lack of care he was ever given, and when he received some affection and someone treating him kindly he would return it to gain more affection - affection he had never had before.

3) What does the future hold for Kreacher?

Hopefully Harry will keep him I'm sure he'd make a wonderful house-elf in the Potter home


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  #34  
Old September 29th, 2007, 7:58 pm
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

I think that Harry realized the difficulties and the trouble Kreacher went through and he felt pitiful and so he tried to change his behaviour with him.
The real Kreacher was the one after because before he went through a lot- R.A.B left him, he got separated from his masters/mistresses and he was so affected by the attitude of the black family that he began to think like them but once he got some respect from Harry he came back to his senses.
I think either kreacher will serve at Hogwarts or he will serve Harry. He may even get freedom.
I've got a bit confusion in HP-7 and I really need to discuss it with someone. Where can I or with whom?


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  #35  
Old October 2nd, 2007, 9:14 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

Maybe the best thing for Kreacher might be if Harry asked him where he wanted to go - Hogwarts, with many other elves, or with Harry or some other place. That would be the most respectful - let him make his own decision.

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  #36  
Old November 28th, 2007, 12:15 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

To me, Kreacher was one of the characters who "changed" the most in DH. It was nice to see a "nice Kreacher", and he provided a couple of the best lines of the book. With Kreacher, I guess it boils down to a fairly simple analysis: stay on his good side. He'll go above and beyond the call of duty, if he likes you. But if he is only obeying out of necessity, then he'll make your life as miserable as he can.

Through Kreacher, I think that we also get our best "look" at house-elves and how they really thought. Hermione was right - be nice to them. But you also have to earn their loyalty, instead of just having it be a "given".

It's kind of a shame Dobby didn't get to see "good Kreacher". Or, if Dobby did, that we didn't get to see it somehow.


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  #37  
Old November 28th, 2007, 12:24 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

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Originally Posted by chparadise View Post
To me, Kreacher was one of the characters who "changed" the most in DH. It was nice to see a "nice Kreacher", and he provided a couple of the best lines of the book. With Kreacher, I guess it boils down to a fairly simple analysis: stay on his good side. He'll go above and beyond the call of duty, if he likes you. But if he is only obeying out of necessity, then he'll make your life as miserable as he can.

Through Kreacher, I think that we also get our best "look" at house-elves and how they really thought. Hermione was right - be nice to them. But you also have to earn their loyalty, instead of just having it be a "given".
In case anyone knows Agatha Christie's 'The Moving Finger' - Kreacher reminds me of Partridge, the maid. 'We stick to the old customs' - she is loyal to an old mistress that's dead for ages, and imposes said old customs on the new owners of the house even. Or the character of Helen Mirren in Gosford Park - I forgot her character's name just now. She's the perfect servant, VERY Kreacher-like in many ways - but she'll murder her master if he's a jerk who doesn't deserve her loyalties (or brings her into a situation of conflicting loyalties, as it is)


Quote:
It's kind of a shame Dobby didn't get to see "good Kreacher". Or, if Dobby did, that we didn't get to see it somehow.
I can actually picture the two continuing their fighting in Hogwarts (where Kreacher seems to have ended up) - about who's REALLY Harry Potter's true servant now and all that


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  #38  
Old November 28th, 2007, 12:27 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

Sorry, haven't read those Fleur, so I'll take your word for it .

And, I can just see that now - Kreacher comes in all proud, showing off his locket, etc...

Anyways, I wonder whether Kreacher was a leader of the house-elves in the kitchen before the Hogwarts battle, or whether he just assumed that throne then. I'm guessing he wasn't well-liked prior to DH, yet he led the house-elf charge. So either I whiffed on the pre-DH Kreacher position, or he was able to (perhaps by invoking Harry Potter's name) assume a leadership position at some point during DH.


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  #39  
Old November 28th, 2007, 1:03 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

I loved Kreacher's transformation - and Harry's. It's nice to think Kreacher left with Harry after the Battle of Hogwarts. I imagine Kreacher would have died rather than be parted from Harry. After all, Harry's take-down of Voldemort avenged Regulus and Kreacher, both of whom suffered at Voldemort's hand.

I like to think that Harry got his own place soon after the Battle of Hogwarts and that, together, he and Kreacher closed down 12 Grimmaud Place - with Kreacher allowed to keep any mementoes he liked from the Black family - and that Kreacher was still there when the three Potter children were born.

Don't you think Kreacher would have been over the moon to serve Harry Potter, the "Defender of House Elves," "the Boy Who Lived," "the Chosen One?" I just have a feeling that being Harry's elf would have had some reflected glory for Kreacher.


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  #40  
Old November 28th, 2007, 2:33 am
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Re: Kreacher the house elf: Character analysis

I loved how Kreacher changed too. It really wasnt his fault how he thought and it was nice to see him change and to see Hermione be apart of it.
He went from being a right pain in my side, to me being sad that the trio would not return to Grimmauld Place for his steak and kidney pie. I almost wish that they would have tried summoning him.


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