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What mistakes in the films can you just not overlook?



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  #241  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 10:10 pm
sirius_gerl  Female.gif sirius_gerl is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

I really, really, disliked PoA. I refuse to watch it, even though I own it, because I just cant stand the way it was filmed. I might have been expecting too much of the film since it is my favourite book, but I feel like a different director could have done better. But anyway...When I do read the book again I will just be thinking back to the movie and be like...why. Them telling who the Mauraders were is important. Whether or not people like to say it, it is important to the plot. Harry is following a map which he knows nothing about. They could have added in at the end when Harry went to see Lupin something like:
Harry: How did you know how it worked?
Lupin: I was one of the people who created it along with Wormtail, Sirius, and yes your father.
And then it's like...dundundun!

I would like to say something on the behalf of GoF the movie. They cut out things that were not important to the plot. Unfortunately a veyr long book needs to be cut. And it is very painful to do so. But you have to follow the main story line and cut out everything that doesn't do anything to add to the main story line. I know how they must have felt cutting it because I had to cut a 93 page script to a 20 page script. It wasn't at all easy. But the job of a director is to tell the main story and make sure it gets across. And I have to say that they did a good job of that. I didn't find that it was rushed, or slautered. There was still character development and they hit everything. They didn't touch upon anything. (which is something I hate to see in a movie)


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  #242  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 10:35 pm
potatoesrock  Female.gif potatoesrock is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

PoA was my favorite (although none of the movies are better than the books) but GoF was the worst. It just felt too rush, and when I brought my friend who hadn't read the books to it, she said she didn't understand! It was pretty bad but my 11-year-old sister thinks its the best, and she's read the books! Then again, she also likes Hannah Montana (the suckiest show on earth) so you can't say too much about her taste in television.


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  #243  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 11:01 pm
sirius_gerl  Female.gif sirius_gerl is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

Everyone has their own tastes and their own opinions, remember that. I could love a show, and you could hate it. It's whatever someone likes to see. Personally I hated PoA (movie) and loved GoF (movie) and you're the oposite. That's just the way we are.


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  #244  
Old January 4th, 2007, 12:26 am
kayce_tennis  Female.gif kayce_tennis is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

another thing that drives me crazy about PoA besides leaving out the marauders is that harry should have been expelled 5 seconds into the movie.


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  #245  
Old January 4th, 2007, 12:28 am
The_Spaniard  Male.gif The_Spaniard is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

POA, because they skipped all the awesome quidditch seens


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  #246  
Old January 4th, 2007, 12:28 am
RoonibWazley  Male.gif RoonibWazley is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

Quote:
Originally Posted by choie View Post
I soooo disagree. You've omitted the deeper theme of the film, which is Harry learning about his parents and discovering his similarities to/differences from James/Lily. (It's repeated throughout the film, especially by Snape, Lupin and Sirius.) And thanks to the lack of explanation about Prongs, the climax of these discoveries -- Harry saving himself by producing his father's animagus form as his Patronus -- was missed completely by those who haven't read the book.
You are confusing plot with narrative detail. Harry's parents are not a plot of POA. The plots are what I listed above. The story of POA is about uncovering the truth.

In simplistic terms:

Plot: What happens
Story: What it means
Narrative: How it is told

Let's take a look at OOTP. The story of OOTP is how one deals with isolation. The plots of it are:

A) Voldemort trying to lure Harry to the Ministry
B) Umbridge's tyranny
C) Harro + Cho

And HBP is a story about who we choose to include in our lives and why. The plots of it are:

A) Voldemort's history
B) Who is the Half Blood Prince?
C) What are Snape and Draco up to?
D) Harry + Ginny

If there are any scenes in the OOTP or HBP movie that do not contribute to one or more of the plots or the story (or the scene is cinematically entertaining, a la the dragon chase in GOF) the audience will deem those scenes as time-wasters, and it will lower the overall approval rating of the film. A good film adaptation will focus only on the plot and story of the novel on which it is based, and it will present that plot and story in an entertaining fashion that makes sense.

Due to the different nature of the two mediums, films cannot rely too much on the novel's narrative; instead it has to focus mainly on the plot and the story . Film needs to tell things in different ways than novels do.

That is why an explanation of Harry's stag Patronus isn't needed for a film version of POA, nor is an explanation of who the Marauders are. Those are narrative details that the general audience won't care about. Only fans of the novels who want to see their favorite book scenes in the film are disappointed by that omission. But book fans are a minority of the audience, and an even smaller minority of those book fans are those who want to keep random things in that have no bearing on the plot or the story.


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  #247  
Old January 4th, 2007, 12:31 am
kayce_tennis  Female.gif kayce_tennis is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

so what was the point in making the patronus a stag? if you don't explain it, its a waste of time.


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  #248  
Old January 4th, 2007, 12:32 am
RoonibWazley  Male.gif RoonibWazley is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

The stag didn't waste any time whatsoever. It would have been a waste if there had been an explanation for it. Its sole purpose was to drive the dementors away.


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  #249  
Old January 4th, 2007, 12:33 am
kayce_tennis  Female.gif kayce_tennis is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

i dunno, it seems it would have taken less time for the computer effects to just make it a white blob. which would make more sense.


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  #250  
Old January 4th, 2007, 12:35 am
Paper_Shoes  Undisclosed.gif Paper_Shoes is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

I agree that they should have cut the stag. I'm kind of surprised they didn't.


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  #251  
Old January 4th, 2007, 5:05 am
choie choie is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoonibWazley View Post
You are confusing plot with narrative detail. Harry's parents are not a plot of POA.
No, I'm actually not. I'm disagreeing with you, but that doesn't make me confused about anything here.

Harry's parents are not a plot, but Harry uncovering the past, particularly his parents' role within it, is a huge part of the plot of the film. And as I said, thematically it's absolutely essential to the emotional heart of the story.

Quote:
That is why an explanation of Harry's stag Patronus isn't needed for a film version of POA, nor is an explanation of who the Marauders are. Those are narrative details that the general audience won't care about. Only fans of the novels who want to see their favorite book scenes in the film are disappointed by that omission.
I'm afraid you're simply wrong here. You've continually hammered this point, but I'm sorry, it is not true for everyone. As I said, when I saw PoA I had never read the books. Not a single one. In fact, I'd never even watched an entire Harry Potter film before either, although I'd seen bits and snatches of the first one.

My reaction? I was captivated by much fo the film, but towards the end I found the Shrieking Shack scene confusing and the stag vs. Dementor scene perplexing. Only once I read the book did the above scenes make any sense, giving the ending of the film a lot more dramatic resonance.

Explaining the stag during the Shrieking Shack scene might not have worked, but having Harry ask about his Patronus during Lupin's farewell scene would have taken two minutes (at the very most) and would have given Harry's emotional journey throughout the film a resolution: he had found his father within himself.

Look, movies -- well, good movies -- are not just plot plot plot, action action action. Cuaron knows this very well, it's why he's so brilliant and effective as a director. Funnily enough, your avid defense of the film is actually downplaying the most powerful aspect of Cuaron's lovely work in PoA: it did have a strong and emotional thematic arc, one that was vital to the film.

A shallow reading of the theme is just "time," but the real theme is how we interpret the past. Over and over again in the film Harry has to make judgments about what really happened, and what these events really mean. And without the major piece of the puzzle (James's role as Harry's Patronus), we're left looking at a pretty, but incomplete and somewhat insubstantial, picture. Cuaron's wonderful film deserved a better conclusion than he gave it.

(In fairness, it's Kloves's screenplay that's lacking here, moreso than Cuaron's direction.)

Edited to add: Okay, I took a stab at adding a tiny bit of dialogue, slipped it into Lupin's goodbye scene, to explain the missing pieces. Kloves's real dialogue is in boldface:

Quote:
Originally Posted by fake version of Lupin's Goodbye Scene
LUPIN: Didn't make any difference? It made all the difference in the world. You uncovered the truth. You saved an innocent man from a terrible fate. It made a great deal of difference. If I am proud of anything...it is of how much you have learned this year.

HARRY: My patronus last night...

LUPIN: I heard it was quite powerful. You saved Sirius's life and your own.

HARRY: It was different this time. I knew I could do it ... and Professor, it had a shape.

LUPIN: The strongest ones do. What did yours take?

HARRY: I wasn't sure at first, but it looked like a large animal of some kind. A deer, or --

LUPIN: A stag?

HARRY: That's right! How did you know?

LUPIN: Patronuses take specific forms depending on the wizard. They become something that will protect you, something reflecting your own heart and strength. I saw a live version of that same stag many times when I was at school, Harry. Your father.

HARRY: My father?

LUPIN: James was an animagus, just like Sirius and Peter. Ever since we were at school together. They were the only ones who knew my secret, you see, and to keep me company when I was a werewolf, they learned how to transform into animals. Sirius was a dog, of course, and ... well, you know about Peter. And James --

HARRY: He was a stag.

LUPIN: Your Patronus took his form because you have him within you, Harry. You have both your parents' strengths -- and a formidable strength that's uniquely your own, make no mistake. But yes, Prongs rode again last night.

HARRY: Prongs? (The light dawns as he sees Lupin smile) That name, it's on the Marauder's Map -- and Snape said you knew all about it. You're Moony, aren't you? The four of you, you used those nicknames!

LUPIN: Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Prongs. Yes, we made the Map, Harry. And, since I am no longer your teacher... I feel no guilt whatsoever about giving this back to you....
There you go. Not brilliant stuff by any means, but this sorta thing would have added a proper sense of completion to Harry's emotional arc through the film. All in under two minutes! I refuse to believe that the film could not have found two more minutes snipped from the interminable Knight Bus scene, or the Monster Book of Monsters attack, or even Harry's Buckbeak ride.



Last edited by choie; January 4th, 2007 at 5:59 am.
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  #252  
Old January 4th, 2007, 7:54 am
DarwinMayflower  Male.gif DarwinMayflower is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

Quote:
Originally Posted by choie View Post
Edited to add: Okay, I took a stab at adding a tiny bit of dialogue, slipped it into Lupin's goodbye scene, to explain the missing pieces. Kloves's real dialogue is in boldface:



There you go. Not brilliant stuff by any means, but this sorta thing would have added a proper sense of completion to Harry's emotional arc through the film. All in under two minutes! I refuse to believe that the film could not have found two more minutes snipped from the interminable Knight Bus scene, or the Monster Book of Monsters attack, or even Harry's Buckbeak ride.
Actually Kloves had something far more efficient in place for original dialogue that basically explains it even less time. I'm sorry to say but even reading and imagining your version kind of haunts me back to exposition-itis of CoS and PS.
Quote:
PROFESSOR LUPIN

Has already risked enough on my
behalf. Besides, people like me,
well... let's just say I'm used to
this by now. But before I go,
tell me about your Patrons.

HARRY

Well. At first I thought it was a
horse, or perhaps a unicorn, but I
think it was --

PROFESSOR LUPIN

A stag.

HARRY

Yes.

PROFESSOR LUPIN

Your father used to transform into
one. That's how he was able to
keep me company when I became...
sick. He was a great friend
James.

Lupin smiles wanly, lifts his sorry suitcase. Then
stops.

PROFESSOR LUPIN

There are stories about him and your mother, you know.
Some are even true. But I think it's safe to say, in the
end, you'll know them best by getting to know yourself.
Lupin then -- with a wicked twinkle -- raises his wand.
For me, I like it. Not only because it's short and a nice denoument, but because it seems a bit farfetched to have Harry engage in two heart to hearts with Sirius and then Lupin, especially so close in time. That's why I liked the fact that Dumbledore's involvement or engagement with Harry was more downplayed, more on the sidelines and coaching Harry and Hermione. Because otherwise it'll be like one entire heart to heart checklist to go through, at least to me.

But for the explanation, I admit even I have a hard time explaining or legitmizing that all the clues are there for someone to see that the Marauder's origins are explained if not just who is who in the film. Considering Mooney and a moon was used (as opposed to the Silver Orb) is pretty much Lupin. Wormtail with a rat, I can't find anyone having trouble figuring that out. The only one you would have a problem with is Padfoot and Prongs. But really that's the thing, you could just readily assume by deduction. Once you find out that Peter, Sirius and Remus are all animagi, one could only assume that James is the 4th culprit.

With Harry mistaking himself as his father, one could assume that it wasn't him mistaking himself for his father, but perhaps his father showing himself in a different way as in the stag. That connection is furthered by Sirius telling how Harry's parents never really leave them, but they're there...in his heart. The very part where the power of a patronus is produced.

Of course my explanation is very farfetched, even going so far travel in the realm of un-canon shipping logic. One of the main problems with my explanation is that his mother could be also mistaken for the Stag considering the amount of time focused on her in the film. But to close off, to me it's just about right. What really defines this film for me is how much they just toss you into the film and you have to figure things out just like any other good film sometimes. As a book adaption, it's supported greatly if you have advance knowledge of the book. As cinema it's great because it's not only filmed great, but also not as pandering as it is. It's true perhaps some exposition was needed a bit more, but I doubt it would make the film any better at least IMHO as a movie fan.

However like I always say there's always films where questions are asked of fairly simple or even complex things and yet those are sometimes the most celebrated of films regarding interpretations of symbolism or ability to motivate someone to think and even explore after the fact. And considering that fans of HP had made some pretty complex and even correct detailed theories of the books, I can't see why they can take that same drive and apply them as I have in my explanation for the film or even in one of their own making.


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  #253  
Old January 4th, 2007, 8:05 am
LegsyGiggleton  Female.gif LegsyGiggleton is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

No Ludo Bagman. NO LUDO BAGMAN??? I thought I was dreaming when I watched GoF for the first time. Where the heck is Ludo Bagman??? It really did ruin the movie for me. They cut out Ludo, but made the dragon break his chain and fly away...


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  #254  
Old January 4th, 2007, 8:17 am
RoonibWazley  Male.gif RoonibWazley is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

GOF was already too flooded with characters (over 40 different people have speaking lines!), so there was no reason to include Bagman.

The dragon scene was cinematically entertaining, and most of the audience enjoyed it. I'm sure the audience appreciated having an exciting dragon chase as opposed to another random character who doesn't do much overall in the story. Now, it's been a while since I read the GOF novel, but from what I remember, Bagman's role in the book is to covertly help Harry through the tournament, and the subject of a Fred & George bribe, and also a red herring bad guy, of sorts. Karkaroff replaces the red herring, and Moody replaces the covert help, so there's nothing left for Bagman to do but be bribed. And since the bribery is unrelated to the rest of the story, that means that it was the right thing to cut Bagman from the movie.


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Last edited by RoonibWazley; January 4th, 2007 at 8:22 am.
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  #255  
Old January 4th, 2007, 8:23 am
LegsyGiggleton  Female.gif LegsyGiggleton is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

Personally, I am more entertained by diverse characters than watching a computer generated dragon fly around for 15 minutes. I'm sure they spent as much on that dragon as they might have spent on another speaking actor's salary. To each their own though, in my opinion, that's what drove me most mad out of all the movies.


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  #256  
Old January 4th, 2007, 12:53 pm
Lord_V  Male.gif Lord_V is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

All of them drive me mad.. Not only when reading the books


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  #257  
Old January 4th, 2007, 2:47 pm
FutureMrsFelton  Female.gif FutureMrsFelton is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

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Originally Posted by sirius_gerl View Post
I really, really, disliked PoA. I refuse to watch it, even though I own it, because I just cant stand the way it was filmed. I might have been expecting too much of the film since it is my favourite book, but I feel like a different director could have done better. But anyway...When I do read the book again I will just be thinking back to the movie and be like...why. Them telling who the Mauraders were is important. Whether or not people like to say it, it is important to the plot. Harry is following a map which he knows nothing about. They could have added in at the end when Harry went to see Lupin something like:
Harry: How did you know how it worked?
Lupin: I was one of the people who created it along with Wormtail, Sirius, and yes your father.
And then it's like...dundundun!

I would like to say something on the behalf of GoF the movie. They cut out things that were not important to the plot. Unfortunately a veyr long book needs to be cut. And it is very painful to do so. But you have to follow the main story line and cut out everything that doesn't do anything to add to the main story line. I know how they must have felt cutting it because I had to cut a 93 page script to a 20 page script. It wasn't at all easy. But the job of a director is to tell the main story and make sure it gets across. And I have to say that they did a good job of that. I didn't find that it was rushed, or slautered. There was still character development and they hit everything. They didn't touch upon anything. (which is something I hate to see in a movie)

I COMPLETELY agree with you sirius_gerl. POA was my favorite book and still is. I hated the fact that they didn't tell us in the movie who created the map, which IS very important. That made me soooo mad. And I hated the way he made the film too, just completely horrible. But I agree as well that any other Director would've done better. I don't like Malfoy's hair because in the book its slicked back. I think the first two movies were the best. They followed the books and were JUST like I imagined it when I read them. I like how they looked classic and like a fantasy at the same time. There were tons of other stuff they left out in POA but I can't think too much cuz...I'm in school haha.

And GOF, I thought it was better then POA (the movies) but they did leave little things out which is fine because the director got the most out of the book that he could I think he did a good job compared to Cuaron. Who is now in my hate list


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  #258  
Old January 4th, 2007, 3:20 pm
RoonibWazley  Male.gif RoonibWazley is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegsyGiggleton View Post
Personally, I am more entertained by diverse characters than watching a computer generated dragon fly around for 15 minutes. I'm sure they spent as much on that dragon as they might have spent on another speaking actor's salary. To each their own though, in my opinion, that's what drove me most mad out of all the movies.
Well, you are a minority in that respect, and the film makers have to make their films appeal to the majority. And to be fair, the dragon chase was no longer than 2 minutes; a quarter of the length of the terrible SS and COS Quidditch sequences.


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  #259  
Old January 4th, 2007, 6:40 pm
Phoenix24  Female.gif Phoenix24 is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

Goblet of Fire greatly disturbs me simply because of all the information that was left out of the book. I understand why they did that but personally, I would prefer a longer movie that is more accurate than a short one that has botched dialogues snipped and pasted back together and entire chapers just missing. I have this same complaint about Prisoner of Azkaban but it wasn't nearly as bad as GOF.


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Old January 4th, 2007, 7:45 pm
DragonFleye  Female.gif DragonFleye is offline
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Re: Which film drives you mad when reading the book?

It's between PoA and GoF for me. In PoA, they completely changed the Firebolt plot which I was really upset about because I really wanted to see Harry actually play a match on it, and, of course, the look on Draco's face. In GoF they completely missed out the S.P.E.W plot which I was extremely annoyed about because it's such a big part for Hermione. Also, they didn't include Ludo Bagman which I thought was terrible because he is such a great character, and the sub plot about Hagrid being a half-giant was really important when it reaches the fifth book. There were little parts about his childhood, but I thought it wasn't enough.


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