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Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort



 
 
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  #121  
Old January 14th, 2007, 11:48 pm
nicloetje  Female.gif nicloetje is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

I think everyone underestimates Florean Fortescue Perhaps I am overanalyzing but I cant see why the DE would drag him off.. Of all shopowners, I think there would be somebody more, dunno, grand, valuable, important they could take, who would serve them a better purpose..

I have done some minor research for the name fortescue:
1- When I look at the name I see the French word "fort" (which means strong, powerfull)
2- When used as a title, ie Harry le Forte it means the Brave
3- according to last-names.net the name means litterally: Strong shield.
they also say that the French word escue, means shield.
This complies with the names origin:
Sir Richard Le Forte (the brave), one of the leaders in the army of William the Conqueror, who had the good fortune to protect his chief at the battle of Hastings, by bearing before him a massive shield, hence acquired the addition of the French word escue, a shield, to his name.

JK does not give names at random, as we all know very well!
If we take the meaning of fortescue serious (strong shield) as true, who could he be shielding for?
Possibly tto cover up Ollivanders disappearance or to protect someone/something??
I cant pinpoint it, my head is chaos right now, help me out people!


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Last edited by nicloetje; January 14th, 2007 at 11:52 pm. Reason: MY copy/paste was not complete:P
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  #122  
Old January 21st, 2007, 2:46 am
Night_Sky  Female.gif Night_Sky is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

I believe Ollivander was taken so he could make a new wand for Voldemort. He can not fight Harry with the one that he has.I am not sure about Fortescue.


  #123  
Old January 24th, 2007, 6:59 am
Negasong Negasong is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

I think Fortescue was taken for his "History of Magic" knowledge. Voldemort knows the diary was destroyed and needs to locate another relic to make a replacement Horcrux...(and he really likes bananna splits).


  #124  
Old January 25th, 2007, 2:36 pm
nicloetje  Female.gif nicloetje is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

Mmmm....banana splits... ;-)

You might be right, but Im not so sure about Voldy finding a relic and making another Horcrux. His immortality is already safe because he relies on his other Horcruxes.. Which he thinks are still intact. So I do not think replacing the diary is such a high priority to Voldemort. He has other possibilities.
With Dumbledore gone, he will strike the wizarding world when it is weak. He will try to seize power and reign the wizarding world.
Or he s gathering his army. Giants, Inferi, Dementors (which are breeding!), more Death Eaters.

He would only wizardnap Fortescue for a direct purpose. With that I mean, something had to be done now. Why take someone, let them wait a couple of months an thén use them? Not his style. Voldemorts takes, uses and discards, no waiting.


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  #125  
Old January 28th, 2007, 12:48 am
jenny_d_b  Female.gif jenny_d_b is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

I didn't even know he could make a replacement horcrux... That suddenly made Harry's mission a lot harder...

Ollivander, I also thought it was because Voldemort wanted to avoid the effect with his and Harry's wand connecting, but it can also be that he's handing out wands to f. ex. the giants, to make them follow him. Anyway, I see why Ollivander is really important.
Fortescue, I never really got that. But I guess it has to have something to do with his knowledge. It could very well be that he knows alot about the founders of Hogwarts, or horcruxes, or Voldemort himself.
I think JK has a twist when it comes to Fortescue. I mean, why kidnap a minor character who sells ice cream? There has to be something more to him than we can see.


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  #126  
Old January 28th, 2007, 1:12 am
LMD101  Female.gif LMD101 is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

Ollivander could well have been taken for his wand-making expertise, if not just to make another for LV to use, but to be forced (or not?) into giving up information about various magical....things, I suppose.

I took Fortescue's disappearance to be down to the DEs setting out to work up the magical community into a state of fear and panic. They were damaging muggle areas, too. Random acts of terrorism, plus a couple of apparently unnecessary kidnappings (and torture, no doubt, going by that horrible scene in GoF) - just the things to terrify wizards and muggles alike.


  #127  
Old January 28th, 2007, 2:14 am
Hermeneutic  Undisclosed.gif Hermeneutic is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMD101 View Post
I took Fortescue's disappearance to be down to the DEs setting out to work up the magical community into a state of fear and panic. They were damaging muggle areas, too. Random acts of terrorism, plus a couple of apparently unnecessary kidnappings (and torture, no doubt, going by that horrible scene in GoF) - just the things to terrify wizards and muggles alike.
I can still see Fortescue having some sort of use with his knowledge of history, but this explanation works for me too. The idea that the guy down the street who's always nice to you, always trying to help you, could suddenly vanish overnight for unknown but almost certainly sinister reasons...there's a lot of power in establishing a mood like that.


  #128  
Old January 28th, 2007, 4:06 am
JimmyPotter  Male.gif JimmyPotter is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

Near the end of HBP, Dumbledore told Draco that he could make him and his mother seem dead and disappear. Perhaps the disappearances of Ollivander and Fortesque were arranged by Dumbledore to keep Voldemort from getting to them first. Fortesque's place showed signs of a struggle but not Ollivander's. This could mean that Dumbledore told Fortesque to make his place look ransacked but Ollivander not because he did not want the disappearances to seem connected.

It is also possible that Fortesque was in fact taken by the Death Eaters first and then Dumbledore hid Ollivander.


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  #129  
Old January 28th, 2007, 5:35 am
Agraphia  Male.gif Agraphia is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

But surely there's someone with more knowledge of M-HIST than the ice-cream man. The line about Fortrescue helping with Harry's homework may have been just to establish how kind he is. Though it's still plausible, especially since his ancestor was a headmaster. I didn't even realize that!

Still, I think Tom would have learned everything about M-HIST while he was at school. I'd bet anything he earned all his N.E.W.T's, but this is pure conjecture.

I like the ideal that Voldy wanted to use Professor Fortescue's portatrait to spy in on the Headmaster's Office - but then again, with all the pure-blood DE's out there I think someone must have a portrait in their home that links to the Headmaster's Office (Phineas Nigellus anyone?), which would be much more convienent than having to force Fortescue to use his.

Good thread.


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  #130  
Old January 29th, 2007, 2:40 am
Hermeneutic  Undisclosed.gif Hermeneutic is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

Over in the RAB is Regulus thread, there's talk about Goblin tunnels and how that may be some aspect of Voldy's secret movements:

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4318267

Nevermind your stance on RAB/Regulus, what if this is why Fortescue was spirited away? He could potentially know about any Goblin constructs and tunnels and either be a service to Voldy or a hindrance if he let the Order in on Voldy's movements.


  #131  
Old January 29th, 2007, 5:24 am
snafflejack  Female.gif snafflejack is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

Quote:
First off, Ephix, your English is certainly better than my German! Good idea for a thread...
Same with me too!

Well, Ollivander obviously must have done it voluntarily, because I really can't see him being forced from his shop. He does have connection with the wands, and how he knew about the two phoenix feathers that came Fawkes. The phoenix feather has been a symbol of goodness, which is why Harry has one residing in his wand, but then Ollivander saying that there had been one residing in Lord Voldemort's wand, well, that really does contradict the point of the phoenix feather being a symbol of goodness. But I presume that Lord Voldemort supporters went all through Diagon Alley and got everyone whom Harry had been with and given them to Voldemort as hostages so that it would bring Harry to him for the final showdown. Ollivander would also be able to give Voldemort hints about his wand and the connection between his and Harry's.

Florean Fortescue on the other hand, had indeed been helping Harry with his History of Magic homework. DE's must have also taken him hostage because he will know about the history of the horcruxes and where they are hidden. Harry would have been able to have easy access to him and ask him questions about them. A lot of people have been mentioning in this thread that Lord Voldemort just likes ice-cream. Well, that's what I was intending to type when I arrived in this thread, but I think that Lord Voldemort has been keeping them as bait, exactly like the people in the other books that have been captured by his followers to lead Harry into the final duel against Lord Voldemort.


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  #132  
Old January 29th, 2007, 2:29 pm
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Sky View Post
I believe Ollivander was taken so he could make a new wand for Voldemort. He can not fight Harry with the one that he has.I am not sure about Fortescue.
I don't think Voldemort is getting a new wand. Tha fact that his and Harry's wands are "twins" is not only very important, but symbolical as well. Plus since the wand chooses the wizard, I don't think Voldemort would want to give his up.


  #133  
Old January 29th, 2007, 3:33 pm
Hermeneutic  Undisclosed.gif Hermeneutic is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

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Originally Posted by Yoana View Post
I don't think Voldemort is getting a new wand. Tha fact that his and Harry's wands are "twins" is not only very important, but symbolical as well. Plus since the wand chooses the wizard, I don't think Voldemort would want to give his up.
Could he even give his up if he wanted to? There are certainly examples of people using each other's wands for even higher-end spells, but could he ever be as effective with a wand that's not his?


  #134  
Old January 29th, 2007, 4:01 pm
anura29_84  Female.gif anura29_84 is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

Nice thread. Ollivander may have been kidnapped by the DEs, but I doubt whether Florean was kidnapped at all. He may have faked his own kidnapping and gone into hiding, under Dumbledore's instructions.


  #135  
Old January 30th, 2007, 7:30 am
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

I don't know about Fortescue,but Ollivander might have been kidnapped by DE'S to help them with his knowledge of Wands.......seeing that he was the one who gave LV his wand and also Harry the brother-wand causing quite a problem for Voldemort.


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  #136  
Old February 9th, 2007, 1:53 am
fang25 fang25 is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

isnt there an old headmaster by the name of fortescue?? i distinctly remeber the name elsewhere. Perhaps his lineage or knowledge is important and necessary for voldermort


  #137  
Old February 9th, 2007, 2:39 am
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

The anagram made me suspicious of Ollivander, and I think he has gone roady for Voldy.

As for Fortescue, has anyone noticed whether there was a Dark Mark above his store? If not, does that remind you of someone else in HBP who faked a fight?

I think Ollivander has joined Bad Guys Inc, but Fortescue has run to ground. And that could be good news for Harry ...


  #138  
Old February 10th, 2007, 4:53 am
taupimu  Female.gif taupimu is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

If Voldemort has Ollivander, it has to be so he can have a wand that will fight against Harry's . He can't get in a situation with Harry again where he can't kill him.

I have no idea why Fortescue would be wanted by Voldemort. I do believe that the two disappearances are connected and are related some how to Voldemort's next attempt to kill Harry.


  #139  
Old February 10th, 2007, 6:20 pm
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

I read in a new thread that was shut down that all the people who escaped form Azkaban will be needing new wands, too, which is a pretty good reason to kidnap Ollivander. I mean, they can't just go to Diagon Alley and try wands in his shop.


  #140  
Old February 10th, 2007, 7:53 pm
nicloetje  Female.gif nicloetje is offline
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Re: Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoana View Post
I read in a new thread that was shut down that all the people who escaped form Azkaban will be needing new wands, too, which is a pretty good reason to kidnap Ollivander. I mean, they can't just go to Diagon Alley and try wands in his shop.
And they can have one of Fortescue's ice creams afterwards..HURRAY!!!

No seriously...i forgot about the escaped wizards...

Makes me wonder, what about the DE who escaped from Azkaban during book 5? The Lestranges etc. They were not likely to just "pop in" at Ollivanders for a new wand. However, they did have one after escaping. Stolen? Where did they get those wands??
It would not be their own if their wands were taken from them before going to azkaban. So they would need "proper" wands wouldnt they?


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