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Is Harry Prepared?



 
 
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  #101  
Old April 17th, 2007, 4:41 am
TDawg_0016  Male.gif TDawg_0016 is offline
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumbledore_girl View Post
If there's one thing that Harry needs to know, it's how to cast spells without his wand. That's the only way he can fight Voldemort. If he tries to use his wand, unless he catches Voldemore off guard (which is highly unlikely), the two wands will cancel each other out like they did in the graveyard. We all know that it is possible to cast spells without a wand. Every day wizards like Lupin do it all the time. Non-wand spells, while hard, are not impossible. In the end, knowing how to cast thoughs could be even more important than non verbal spells.
Can you please provide some canon as to where non-wand spells are used... I seem to recall Jo smashing non-wand magic in an interview, saying something like 'magic can be performed without a wand in rare circumstances, but to do the really good spells, yes, you need spells.' but don't quote me exactly on that. I think the wands will only cancel each other (prior incantarteum or whatever) if the spells are cast at the same time and hit each other, but idk.


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  #102  
Old April 17th, 2007, 4:57 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDawg_0016 View Post
... I seem to recall Jo smashing non-wand magic in an interview, saying something like 'magic can be performed without a wand in rare circumstances, but to do the really good spells, yes, you need spells.' but don't quote me exactly on that.
i believe the quote you are referring to is as follows, from the Red Nose Day Chat, BBC Online, March 12, 2001:
Q: Do you need a Wand to do Magic?
A: You can do unfocused and uncontrolled magic without a wand (for instance when Harry blows up Aunt Marge), but to do really good spells, yes, you need a wand..
as for some good canon evidence, i'll work on it when i can get to all of my books and let you know if and when i find anything.


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  #103  
Old April 17th, 2007, 8:00 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Look in POA in the Empty Cauldren. When Fudge asks Tom for a room that Fudge can talk to Harry in, Tom "clicks" his fingers to light the fire in the room they go to. Not sure of a page number right now.


  #104  
Old April 17th, 2007, 11:37 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

A lot.


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  #105  
Old April 17th, 2007, 11:56 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Wand-less magic is a very minor kind of magic. Like lighting fire etc. I don't think Wand-less magic is very important.
But what about the Memory Charm? Stupefy or Petrify Voldemort and then Obliviate him? Well, that'll be the easiest method to finish Voldemort!


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  #106  
Old April 17th, 2007, 3:55 pm
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

he should learn how to do avada kadavra and master non-spoken spells. otherwise he's going to be stabbing or trying to shot voldy to death which could pose a definite problem


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  #107  
Old April 17th, 2007, 3:59 pm
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Harry has already shown an ability to use non-verbal spells. I think he will come to be able to use Occlumency, but by no means master it. I'm sure Harry will learn many things to help him and I'm sure he will have mentors to help him as well. The amount of things Harry needs to learn will only help him so much, though. It all comes down to his ultimate weapon. Once he masters how to use love in that way, then I think he'll be okay.


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  #108  
Old April 17th, 2007, 4:28 pm
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowRose View Post
A lot.
Heh. Yeah, that's my reaction each time I read the title.


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  #109  
Old April 17th, 2007, 11:08 pm
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

i think harry has a little bit more to learn before he faces voldemort


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  #110  
Old April 17th, 2007, 11:17 pm
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Non-verbal spells, apparition, more complex attack/defence spells.


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  #111  
Old April 18th, 2007, 3:27 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

As you have seen Harry is not even close in terms of power or skill when compared to Dumbledore. This is shown in:
When in the boat in the cave with the fake horcrux Harry's Magical skill is so small that he and Dumbledore can both sit in the boat.

Harry can't detect magic like Dumbledore

In a way what Snape said about Harry Leeching off more talented friends is slightly true. He would be dead without Ron or Hermione


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  #112  
Old April 18th, 2007, 3:36 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

I would be very surprised if DH takes place over more than one year. Stylistically, it breaks the pattern of the first six books, and JKR has nothing if she doesn't have excellent style. And Snape is definitely Harry's biggest problem when it comes to Occlumency. Voldemort is using it against Harry for fear of having his own thoughts penetrated, and for all we know, Voldemort doesn't know Harry was learning it. If Snape is a true double agent, he's keeping some secrets about both sides to himself.

Here's a question: Did Snape make an unbreakable vow with Dumbledore? Is that the source of the headmaster's trust ? Evers since the beginning of HBP, I've wondered...


  #113  
Old May 12th, 2007, 3:05 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

I think Harry needs to learn Occlumency better just in case to close his mind and I'm sure that Lupin, Tonks , and the rest and the rest of the Order of the Phoenix will teach him to do all sorts of Jinxes curses and Counter curses and how to do Non -Verbal spelles better among other things to learn I'm sure in other words Yes he needs to learn alot .


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  #114  
Old May 12th, 2007, 3:44 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

I agree that Harry must master Occulmency and Non Verbal Spells. Assuming that Snape is good, he passed this on as his last lesson to him. If Snape is bad then he was baiting him with his biggest weaknesses prior to escaping. Harry already knows how to do Occulmency but due to his hatred of Snape has not used it, mastered it or truly seen the importance of it. If Harry is going to continue to keep the secret of the Horcruxes from others, he must close his mind. As far as non verbal spells, there importance was clearly spelled out in HBP.
Harry needs to learn a lot of things but does not have time to learn it all. He must focus on the immediate and I think that Snape gave him a clue to the most immediate needs he has.


  #115  
Old May 12th, 2007, 3:53 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

If Harry's ability to love is how he must defeat Voldemort then why would the ability to learn Occlumacy mean anything to him? I mean all it would do is close himself from Voldemort, hoever in opening himself to him he will expose this ripe love in its purest form and be able to overtake voldemort. As well as this it is important to consider other abilities that would show Harry how to target Voldemort better- its possibly that Legmacy might be a better path to undertake to arm himself with more personal information.


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  #116  
Old May 12th, 2007, 4:15 am
Frankie62446  Female.gif Frankie62446 is offline
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Non-verbal spells I think will come more gradually. Occlumeny, on the other hand, seems to be more of an immediate necesity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snape, HBP
...learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!
This quote would definitely be a hint (whether meant to be helpful or not) that Harry NEEDS to learn it.

But who is going to teach it? How do people learn it in the first place?


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  #117  
Old May 12th, 2007, 4:21 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Snape said a lot of rude things to Harry for a lot of different reasons. I dont really see a traitors words as proof- therefore I also have to point out that his words have no relevence because as he is suposed to be mentoring Harry he cannot manage to teach him anything. This is because he is not the archetype of a mentor that Harry can follow. He is the representitive of "evil" in Harry's eyes and therefore Harry who is looking to go to the good cannot learn from him and remeain pure. This is also why it is a good thing taht Harry didn't learn occlumacy- he wasnt able to because of the teacher, however with any other character this might have been possible. So using a source that is not Snape tell me why Harry must learn Occlumacy? If it had been so important dont you believe that Dumbledore would have began teaching him? I think that the task could have easily been added in extra lessons- but obviously Dumbledore found reason to believe that the lessons were not of the upmost importance and did not continue them. Thefore once again I will state: what evidence is there that Harry much learn occlumacy? I would love to hear a good arguement.


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  #118  
Old May 12th, 2007, 5:59 pm
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

The evidence is simply that, as illustrated in HBP when Harry attempted to curse Snape, Harry cannot pose a real threat to any Dark Wizard if he doesn't know Occlumency. I don't think that Snape was trying to teach him anything; it was just an interesting point made by him highlighting the fact that Harry will be almost useless if he doesn't learn non-verbal spells and Occlumeny. How will Harry be able to duel if his opponent can see straight into his head and shouts out what he's doing before he does it?


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  #119  
Old May 12th, 2007, 6:09 pm
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Quote:
it was just an interesting point made by him highlighting the fact that Harry will be almost useless if he doesn't learn non-verbal spells and Occlumeny. How will Harry be able to duel if his opponent can see straight into his head and shouts out what he's doing before he does it?
I deffinetly agree with that. But I still think that what Harry will learn is more in the past, such things as info about his parents. And there's still this "huge relevation" about Lily. I think he's going to be learning some wandless magic as well, and the only reason I say that is; look at the coverart for DH. Both the UK and the US editions show no wands. And Voldemort and Harry cannon use wands against each other (at least not their own) since they get Priori Incantatem. Harry will have to find other ways to defeat Voldemort, and those are the things he'll have to learn.


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Last edited by charmedp7; May 12th, 2007 at 10:03 pm.
  #120  
Old May 13th, 2007, 6:05 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Priori Incantum only works when the spells are fired at the exact same time and hit each other in mid-air. We've seen Voldemort curse Harry before; we know it's possible.


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