Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Post DH References

Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis



 
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old July 13th, 2007, 12:03 am
SageThyme's Avatar
SageThyme  Female.gif SageThyme is offline
Auror Emeritus
 
Joined: 4708 days
Location: trying on strait jackets
Posts: 1,857
Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Welcome to the post-DH discussion of Slytherin House. Previous discussion without spoilers can be found here: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Is there a predominant quality that a Slytherin must have in order to be a Slytherin?

Do you feel that Phineas' statement applies to all Slytherins? If yes, then what are the implications of it being true? If no, then why to you feel Phineas doesn't know what constitutes a Slytherin and their choices?

What is it about the Slytherin house that isolates it from the other houses?

What are some of the decisions that students from other houses have made that Slytherins would decide differently?

What are the significance of Water and the Snake to Slytherin?

What is the significance of JKR splitting the students into classes and why did she make Slytherin House from a literary perspective?

What new thoughts do you have on Slytherin post DH?


__________________

Last edited by Jessica; July 23rd, 2007 at 9:43 pm.
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old July 24th, 2007, 11:49 am
Moriath's Avatar
Moriath  Female.gif Moriath is offline
MODLY CREW
 
Joined: 4575 days
Location: Neverwhere
Posts: 7,036
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

I was disappointed that Slytherin House was singled out as evil. There was no Slytherin banner in the Room of Requirement and Slytherins did not join the battle against Voldemort. It seemed that the wizarding world is not divided into Death Eaters and Order members but good people and Slytherins. Only Slughorn fought Voldemort, so his role may have been redeeming for Slytherin House.


  #3  
Old July 24th, 2007, 1:58 pm
moe_shalash  Male.gif moe_shalash is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4576 days
Location: a desert in arabia
Age: 27
Posts: 77
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madron View Post
I was disappointed that Slytherin House was singled out as evil. There was no Slytherin banner in the Room of Requirement and Slytherins did not join the battle against Voldemort. It seemed that the wizarding world is not divided into Death Eaters and Order members but good people and Slytherins. Only Slughorn fought Voldemort, so his role may have been redeeming for Slytherin House.
Yes and JK always says that not all Slytherin's are evil. they seem'd pretty evil to me not that not even one student fought, i was really hoping for Slytherin to step up


__________________
Big fan of Luna, Neville and Ginny (the other Trio)

  #4  
Old July 24th, 2007, 4:58 pm
glorygirl  Undisclosed.gif glorygirl is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3840 days
Posts: 18
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

I too was also disappointed that all of the Slytherins students left Hogwarts. It's always been that the Houses need to work together to get rid of evil and the fact that JKR chickened out and had them leave when there was room for character development (Nott could see the thestrals and did not hang out in gangs, Zabini's potential was recognized by Slughorn) and instead she just wussed out. Even when you read the epilogue it seems that they are prejudice against Slytherins and history will repeat itself.

On a side note, I don't think students should be sorted by personality anymore but randomly and no more house tables.


  #5  
Old July 24th, 2007, 9:23 pm
smartypants's Avatar
smartypants  Male.gif smartypants is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 5398 days
Location: Smartylands
Age: 51
Posts: 774
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

It doesn't say all Slytherins of age actually ended up fighting for Voldemort. It just says they all left, which is partly because they all was run out, because the rest couldn't trust them.

Many did fight for Voldemort, and they did it because they thought he would win. Slytherins are egoistic, and probably oftenintuitive-judgers. Intuitive judgers often have an idea of how the world should work, and are sometimes happy to walk over bodies to make sure the world works as it "should".

Also, I think the hat sorts people after where they would be happy. And when a house gets dominated by people who are "blood-racists", it probably wouldn't put many mudbloods or generally tolerant people in the house.


__________________


The Polyphonic Spree.

Last edited by smartypants; July 24th, 2007 at 9:26 pm.
  #6  
Old July 25th, 2007, 4:56 am
DarkDaysAhead's Avatar
DarkDaysAhead  Female.gif DarkDaysAhead is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 4468 days
Location: Devastation
Posts: 2,863
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madron View Post
I was disappointed that Slytherin House was singled out as evil. There was no Slytherin banner in the Room of Requirement and Slytherins did not join the battle against Voldemort. It seemed that the wizarding world is not divided into Death Eaters and Order members but good people and Slytherins. Only Slughorn fought Voldemort, so his role may have been redeeming for Slytherin House.
I agree entirely. I was very disappointed to read that, when it was time to evacuate the school, the entire Slytherin house had left. Given JK's stance on the issue (good vs. bad, choices, etc.), I figured she'd stress the fact that not all Slytherins are bad but we saw so few good Slytherins that I'm afraid she may have failed.


__________________
eghf



"Those who dream by night, in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible."

-- T.E. Lawrence


eghf
  #7  
Old July 25th, 2007, 7:34 pm
Lunatic  Male.gif Lunatic is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 3834 days
Location: Ravenclaw Common Room
Posts: 741
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

You know, all "good" Slytherins, i.e. Snape, Andromeda Tonks, Slughorn and eventually Draco have had experinces that seriously challenge the dominant Slytherin mindset. The young set, sheltered by Hogwarts, had little opportunity to experince these things. Perhaps this is the difference and why they are who they are? Perhaps seeing a deatheater parent or a friend from another house dead or injured, might be enough to make a difference. They would still be cunning people regardless.

All the Best,

Lunatic


  #8  
Old July 29th, 2007, 5:12 pm
guad's Avatar
guad  Undisclosed.gif guad is offline
Mrs Grawp
 
Joined: 4519 days
Location: Rocking with BAS DÖSE
Posts: 3,618
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

I agree with the others being disappointed by the Slytherin actuation in DH.

Room of Requirement: Nobody there. Meaning that nobody has fought against Voldemorts system.

Final battle: They all leave. Does this mean that they are all DE kids? That all agree with Voldemorts regime? That they are all cowards?
It's a bit sad that we get that message by JKR given that allthrough the books we had the big Unity message.

And besides, it's not realistic. I do not think that all Slytherins are pureblood supremacists and Voldemort followers. I'm sure we can find some brave, cunning, smart Slytherin students who actually disagree with Voldemort. Sadly in the last book, this doesn't seem to be the case.

Slytherins who help: Andromeda Black-Tonks. Unfortunately we never get explicitly told that she is a Slytherin, and a random reader might not spot it.

Slughorn: Reluctantly. He has to be told off by McGonnagal.

Snape: He has his own reasons for helping, which are not house character related, so that doesn't really count in the Slytherin connection.

Narcissa: Similar to Snape, she helps Harry because she wants to see her son. (it is a bit Slytherin to do things for own goals though).

Regulus: Too a Slytherin, who switched sides. Probably the best one.

Phineas: Yes he helps too.

So it's sad that the best Slytherins are actually either corpses in a cave or dead headmasters in a portrait.


Edit: I also feel that a rushed message in the epilogue (by Harry to Albus, that all houses are great) is actually not enough to change that bad feeling one gets from Slytherin in Hogwarts.


__________________

guads random creative moments: Fanart and Fanfiction

Support the True Heroes! Joins Squiddies Army!


BAS DÖSE! More META L than EVER!

Last edited by guad; July 29th, 2007 at 5:14 pm.
  #9  
Old July 30th, 2007, 12:00 am
Tenshi's Avatar
Tenshi  Undisclosed.gif Tenshi is offline
She Who Walks Behind
 
Joined: 4640 days
Posts: 6,298
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

I can't complain about Slytherin in DH. They actually reacted like I expected. But I thought that the fact that they led out Slytherin students as well to protect them from Voldemort, showed that the other houses cared for the safety of the Slytherins. I didn't expect them to join the fight against Voldemort, also not disturbing the others either.


__________________


The End of the Dream.
  #10  
Old July 30th, 2007, 12:46 am
purplehawk's Avatar
purplehawk  Female.gif purplehawk is offline
Renegade
 
Joined: 5259 days
Location: Buckeye Country
Age: 68
Posts: 28,447
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by TENSHI View Post
I can't complain about Slytherin in DH. They actually reacted like I expected. But I thought that the fact that they led out Slytherin students as well to protect them from Voldemort, showed that the other houses cared for the safety of the Slytherins. I didn't expect them to join the fight against Voldemort, also not disturbing the others either.
Didn't most of the Slytherins join forces with Voldemort in the final battle at Hogwarts? Aberforth had a point when he said some of them should have been held as hostages. I would never have condoned doing so, but at the same time why give them safe passage out of the castle when they're only going to swell Voldemort's ranks?

The only Slytherin in the book that really impressed me was Regulus Black. I can give a half-hearted nod to Slughorn and Phineas. I don't think Andromeda was a Slytherin to be honest: she and Sirius were too close.


__________________



"A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon."

~ President Bill Clinton ~
August 28, 2013
50th Anniversary of "I Have a Dream"


All opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect those of any political or government body.
  #11  
Old July 30th, 2007, 1:20 am
Tenshi's Avatar
Tenshi  Undisclosed.gif Tenshi is offline
She Who Walks Behind
 
Joined: 4640 days
Posts: 6,298
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by purplehawk View Post
Didn't most of the Slytherins join forces with Voldemort in the final battle at Hogwarts? Aberforth had a point when he said some of them should have been held as hostages. I would never have condoned doing so, but at the same time why give them safe passage out of the castle when they're only going to swell Voldemort's ranks?
I'm still busy with re-reading, but the only thing I remember is that Pansy wanted to hand out Harry to Voldemort and that Draco, Goyle and Crabbe came back. Like Harry said, Voldemort wouldn't have cared who he killed in the end even if it were DE kids.

Quote:
The only Slytherin in the book that really impressed me was Regulus Black. I can give a half-hearted nod to Slughorn and Phineas. I don't think Andromeda was a Slytherin to be honest: she and Sirius were too close.
Ah Reggie. I fully agree. He showed bravery in the book.

And Andromeda has to be Slytherin and Sirius was the first Black to be sorted into another house.


__________________


The End of the Dream.
  #12  
Old July 30th, 2007, 3:53 am
horcrux4's Avatar
horcrux4  Female.gif horcrux4 is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 4407 days
Location: Sheffield UK
Age: 72
Posts: 2,167
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

I was sorry that Slytherin didn't produce anyone among the students who was willing to stand up to Voldemort. I thought that the Sorting Hat's warning that the houses should unite would lead to a real 4-house unity in the end but I was disappointed. I can understand that the kids with DE parents would not want to be on the opposite side to their parents, especially if that would get their parents into trouble, but surely that doesn't apply to all Slytherins? To have only Slughorn, Andromeda Tonks and Regulus Black as good Slytherins is rather sad.


__________________
Meet Mickey, my new kitten!
Quote:
"From this time forth we shall be leaving the firm foundation of fact and journeying together through the murky marshes of memory into thickets of wildest guesswork."
Albus Dumbledore, HBP
  #13  
Old July 30th, 2007, 4:03 am
wickedwickedboy's Avatar
wickedwickedboy  Undisclosed.gif wickedwickedboy is offline
Lycanthrope
 
Joined: 4383 days
Location: Running with the Werewolves
Posts: 9,423
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

I know this is in flagrant contrast to my other posts which support people standing up for good causes, but I have to say I thought the Slytherin reaction was Wicked! I loved it. I was like, you go guys!! They stuck to their beliefs (or what ever name u want to put on it) in the face of 3/4 of the student body and all of the professors (even their head of house in pajamas) against them. I don't know why, but the moment was way cool to me, I loved it and felt like they were brilliant. It was like a major rebel effect - - you gotta love it - -at least if you are me you do.


  #14  
Old July 30th, 2007, 4:06 am
General_Ridley  Male.gif General_Ridley is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4844 days
Age: 29
Posts: 275
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Slytherins are brave, but not stupid about it. Any Slytherin child would have had the brains to see what would happen to them if they openly opposed the Dark Lord: death, and quick. Voldemort would have punished these traitors more severely than any others, so rather than fight Voldemort, they refused to hold up the other Houses.

Slytherin House played its part. They did not prevent the other Houses from doing what must be done, and they survived. In our own proud way, that's how we do interhouse unity in Slytherin House: by letting you get on with what you must do. And by surviving, we maintain our life, our individuality which is so predominant among our House.


__________________
Important moments in Voldemort History!

Dec. 31, 1927 - born.
1943-1944 - opens Chamber of Secrets, kills dad and grandparents
1944 - Creates first Horcrux
1971-1981 - Goes public, decimates Wizarding world
1995 - Reborn
  #15  
Old July 30th, 2007, 10:14 am
Moriath's Avatar
Moriath  Female.gif Moriath is offline
MODLY CREW
 
Joined: 4575 days
Location: Neverwhere
Posts: 7,036
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by guad View Post
I agree with the others being disappointed by the Slytherin actuation in DH.

Room of Requirement: Nobody there. Meaning that nobody has fought against Voldemorts system.

Final battle: They all leave. Does this mean that they are all DE kids? That all agree with Voldemorts regime? That they are all cowards?
It's a bit sad that we get that message by JKR given that allthrough the books we had the big Unity message.

And besides, it's not realistic. I do not think that all Slytherins are pureblood supremacists and Voldemort followers. I'm sure we can find some brave, cunning, smart Slytherin students who actually disagree with Voldemort. Sadly in the last book, this doesn't seem to be the case.

Slytherins who help: Andromeda Black-Tonks. Unfortunately we never get explicitly told that she is a Slytherin, and a random reader might not spot it.

Slughorn: Reluctantly. He has to be told off by McGonnagal.

Snape: He has his own reasons for helping, which are not house character related, so that doesn't really count in the Slytherin connection.

Narcissa: Similar to Snape, she helps Harry because she wants to see her son. (it is a bit Slytherin to do things for own goals though).

Regulus: Too a Slytherin, who switched sides. Probably the best one.

Phineas: Yes he helps too.

So it's sad that the best Slytherins are actually either corpses in a cave or dead headmasters in a portrait.


Edit: I also feel that a rushed message in the epilogue (by Harry to Albus, that all houses are great) is actually not enough to change that bad feeling one gets from Slytherin in Hogwarts.
Exactly, it conveys a very mixed message. We are constantly confronted with how very bad Slytherin House is in general. None of the Malfoys showed a true change of mind and heart, Regulus did something brave and noble but he was a Death Eater before, the Slytherin children in Harry's year are all described as ugly and/or nasty throughout the series and Slytherin is usually the table that sneers and doesn't clap when bravery comes from another House, ...and here Harry tells his son in the epilogue that it does not matter. I was thoroughly confused.


  #16  
Old July 30th, 2007, 10:45 am
eternitygoddess  Undisclosed.gif eternitygoddess is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 3797 days
Posts: 110
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

I don't like how she portrayed as ALL Slytherins unwilling to fight.

It casts a bad light on the house.

I don't think Slytherin qualities, cunning and ambition, are necessarily bad.


  #17  
Old July 30th, 2007, 10:53 am
wickedwickedboy's Avatar
wickedwickedboy  Undisclosed.gif wickedwickedboy is offline
Lycanthrope
 
Joined: 4383 days
Location: Running with the Werewolves
Posts: 9,423
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madron View Post
Exactly, it conveys a very mixed message. We are constantly confronted with how very bad Slytherin House is in general. None of the Malfoys showed a true change of mind and heart, Regulus did something brave and noble but he was a Death Eater before, the Slytherin children in Harry's year are all described as ugly and/or nasty throughout the series and Slytherin is usually the table that sneers and doesn't clap when bravery comes from another House, ...and here Harry tells his son in the epilogue that it does not matter. I was thoroughly confused.
Well JKR once said that not all of those in Slytherin were evil, bad, ect. I think that the point Harry was making is that it is not the house that makes you, but rather you make the house. In other words, no matter what house you are in, you determine who you will be and can still be a great person.

We never had any examples of this and I am sure Harry didn't want Albus to turn out like Snape and only come to grips with some form of bravery at death. That is why I concluded he must mean what I said above.

"You'll make your real friends, those cunning folk use any means to achieve their ends." Loyalty among them - they stick together and are cunning and thus achieve their ends - driven, slick and they get the job done.

I have to say I like um.


  #18  
Old July 30th, 2007, 11:22 am
Emperor_Gestahl  Male.gif Emperor_Gestahl is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 3954 days
Location: Amsterdam
Age: 27
Posts: 1,030
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by purplehawk View Post
Didn't most of the Slytherins join forces with Voldemort in the final battle at Hogwarts? Aberforth had a point when he said some of them should have been held as hostages. I would never have condoned doing so, but at the same time why give them safe passage out of the castle when they're only going to swell Voldemort's ranks?

The only Slytherin in the book that really impressed me was Regulus Black. I can give a half-hearted nod to Slughorn and Phineas. I don't think Andromeda was a Slytherin to be honest: she and Sirius were too close.
We never heard anything about that, and the only one with a Death Eater as parent is Theodore Nott..


__________________
Nothing beats the sweet music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison! - Kefka FFVIA
  #19  
Old July 30th, 2007, 11:44 am
Ifink2much's Avatar
Ifink2much  Female.gif Ifink2much is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4484 days
Posts: 764
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

It was just typical slytherin behaviour.Look after yourself and do what you need to get by i.e be completly selfish.I suppose if you wanted to say the slytherins weren't evil you could say they didn't did go an join the death easters,but they showed their true clours 'we're not on either side,we're on our own side!'.Even if they'r not evil there's very little good in them.


  #20  
Old July 30th, 2007, 1:35 pm
Tenshi's Avatar
Tenshi  Undisclosed.gif Tenshi is offline
She Who Walks Behind
 
Joined: 4640 days
Posts: 6,298
Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl View Post
We never heard anything about that, and the only one with a Death Eater as parent is Theodore Nott..
There are more. Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle for example.

Even if some student's parents are not directly DEs, they still could support Voldemort.


__________________


The End of the Dream.
 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Post DH References

Bookmarks

Tags
character analysis, slytherin house


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 8:13 pm.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.