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Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?



 
 
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  #41  
Old March 16th, 2006, 4:31 am
CleverBadger  Female.gif CleverBadger is offline
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Re: Avada Kadavra- A Counter Curse?

The second poster is right. The only way to combat Avada Kedavra is love. Avada Kedavra is a spell that feeds off of hate and malice. Only with love can this spell be overcome.

I would really like it explained exactly how one creates spells, as Snape did. It seems like certain sayings do certain things. For example, when Ron incorrectly performs a spell in his OWLs, he makes his dinner plate turn into a mushroom. Likewise, Lavender creates a flock of flamingos and has no idea how.

This leads me to believe that all spells are there, just waiting to be called into service. Or perhaps all spells were created in ancient times, and over the years some became prevalent, and others which wouldn't ever be of particular use (like the mushroom and flamingo spells) sort of drifted into obscurity. Then if people happen to accidentally utter the wrong words, they might inadvertantly produce one of these obscure spells.

So how did Snape create things like Muffliato? Perhaps they were obscure books, or he researched ancient magic. Maybe Sectumsempra was an ancient spell, and in Snape's perusal of old Dark Magic books came upon it.

I really have no idea. Does anyone?


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  #42  
Old March 16th, 2006, 12:16 pm
majesticman majesticman is offline
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Re: Avada Kadavra- A Counter Curse?

Sorry if this point has already been made but...
Voldermort after his confrontation with Lily tried to kill Harry using "Avada Kedavra" although this has'nt been explicitly said but i think this can be assumed safely. Now when the curse was reflected back at him due to lily's sacrifice he is not killed but take the form of a vapourmort with no power but what is too be noted is that "he is not killed" . I've been reading the GOF again and found out that voldermort had done an experiment on himself to protect himself from the Avada Kedavra curse which partly worked........my point being that there is way for harry.


  #43  
Old March 22nd, 2006, 3:56 am
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Re: Avada Kadavra- A Counter Curse?

There is always a way for Harry, what I'm saying is it would be very difficult unless JKR makes it easy!


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  #44  
Old March 23rd, 2006, 12:28 am
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Re: Avada Kadavra- A Counter Curse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by majesticman
Sorry if this point has already been made but...
Voldermort after his confrontation with Lily tried to kill Harry using "Avada Kedavra" although this has'nt been explicitly said but i think this can be assumed safely. Now when the curse was reflected back at him due to lily's sacrifice he is not killed but take the form of a vapourmort with no power but what is too be noted is that "he is not killed" . I've been reading the GOF again and found out that voldermort had done an experiment on himself to protect himself from the Avada Kedavra curse which partly worked........my point being that there is way for harry.
Maybe the horcruxes?

We've seen the killing curse used on Cedric and Dumbledore. Cedric didn't stand a chance, but I think that if anyone could figure out how to deflect the killing curse, it would have been Dumbledore. If Voldemort had found a way to block the Avada Kedarva curse, he wouldn't have to create the horcruxes.


  #45  
Old June 10th, 2006, 3:07 am
chemguy77  Undisclosed.gif chemguy77 is offline
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Will Anyone Learn to Block the Killing Curse?

Okay, I searched the Forum and couldn't find a threat on this already, if this is already being discussed, I apologize.

I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on whether Harry or perhaps Snape will come up with a way to block the killing curse. While it says throughout the books that there is no way to block the AK curse, this doesn't entirely appear to be true. Harry's mother Lilly obviously blocked the curse which rebounded on LV and it can also be blocked by physical objects (OoTP) as well as a Pheonix(OoTP). It seems to me that there could be way to block it, its just that no one has found a way to do it yet. It has always bothered me that of all the spells that exist the one that kills cannot be blocked or anything. I suppose it is necessary or it wouldn't be quite so scary of a possibility. However I thought that if a block was found by Harry using love (as Lilly did) that it would be part of a nice cap on the end of the book. Thoughts??????


  #46  
Old June 10th, 2006, 3:22 am
Kay_Renee  Female.gif Kay_Renee is offline
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Re: Will Anyone Learn to Block the Killing Curse?

This is something I've wondered about, too. I think that there is some way, but it takes a personal sacrifice that you've thought through beforehand to make it work. So the love shown in the sacrifice probably has to be greater than the hate put in the Killing Curse. That's my viewpoint on it anyway. It's kind of like in the fourth book when fake Moody said that the whole class could point their wands at him and cast the Killing Curse and he bet he would barely get so much as a nosebleed. They didn't hate him. Hate powers the curse, so love would have to power the antidote.


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  #47  
Old June 10th, 2006, 3:29 am
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Re: Will Anyone Learn to Block the Killing Curse?

I imagine that to block a curse that kills you need to love the person who casts it. Perhaps the only way to survive it would be already be ready to lay your life down for that person. Show that you have nothing to live for without that person. Showing that your love is so great that you would readily give up your life for that person (who is attempting to kill you) may protect you from the hatred and power of the curse.


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  #48  
Old June 10th, 2006, 3:34 am
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Re: Will Anyone Learn to Block the Killing Curse?

I totally agree that it is going to be some kind of love that is the blocker for the curse. I'm almost afraid that Harry is going to be the one to block it in some way. Just like his mother did for him, he will do for someone that he loves(Ron, Hermione, Ginny). As much as I would hate to see Harry die, it would be just the thing I know he would do.


  #49  
Old June 10th, 2006, 4:16 am
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Re: Will Anyone Learn to Block the Killing Curse?

Well, Jo has said that the reason Lily's sacrifice was so important was because it wasn't necessary. Voldemort said she didn't need to die, but she still threw herself in front of Harry. Then Voldemort went on to kill Harry and Lily's love "protected" him. I wouldn't say Harry blocked it, because it still affected him. He still got hit by the curse, but it didn't work the way it was supposed it.


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  #50  
Old June 10th, 2006, 4:51 am
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

no, i dont think Avada Kedavra is a counter curse..it doesnt make sense...


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  #51  
Old June 10th, 2006, 5:24 am
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Re: Avada Kadavra- A Counter Curse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMollywobbles
I also agree that Love is essentially the means of blocking avada kedavra, but you can’t do it for yourself. It has to be a self-sacrificing love, so you couldn’t really protect yourself with it.

I think Snape - if anyone - would be smart enough to come up with a counter curse (if it were even possible), but I can't see him & Harry working on it together...even before Book 6, but particularly after the tower scene.

Speaking of which, I am among those who believe there is more to Dumbledore's "death" than meets the eye. I believe one of two things is going on here:

1) By sacrificing himself on the tower after immobilizing Harry under the invisibility cloak, Dumbledore effectively gave Harry the same sort of protection that Lily gave him when she was killed. (And maybe now Harry will have to return to Hogwart’s at least once a year), or

2) Dumbledore had a solution to Snape's use of those words against him. Maybe a counter curse, or maybe something we readers aren’t yet aware of (or that seemed so insignificant when we read it that we failed to notice it). I just can’t let go of the fact that Dumbledore told Draco, only moments before his own supposed death, that he could protect Draco from Voldemort if he wished to join the good guys, because Voldemort couldn’t kill him if he was already dead. Dumbledore couldn’t have been suggesting Draco should really die, so he obviously was aware of some magical means of making someone appear dead even when they are not dead. Dumbledore was weak (from age, from whatever happened when he procured the ring and messed up his hand, from the potion he drank to get the locket) and perhaps he needed to appear dead to give himself time to regain his strength, or maybe he needed to appear dead to get Snape in closer to Voldemort so he could be a better spy for the Order, or maybe he needed to appear dead to make Harry more self-reliant and stronger for what lies ahead of him.

I agree with you on most of the accounts. I do believe that it would be very impossible to "test" that countercurse that Harry and Snape could be working on. And I also agree with you that that (Snape and Harry collaborating) is not even remotely plausible after Harry witnessed Snape murder Dumbledore.

However, I think the first part of your theory is not right... Dumbledore could not have provided Harry with the same sort of protection like Lily had. And I say this because of what JKRowling has said to Emerson in the interview... It basically just says that dying for someone you love is not enough. If that were the case, then James' death would have been enough to guard Harry.
But yeah, see for yourself guys, here it is:

Quote:
ES: This is one of my burning questions since the third book - why did Voldemort offer Lily so many chances to live? Would he actually have let her live?

JKR: Mhm.

ES: Why?

JKR: [silence] Can't tell you. But he did offer; you're absolutely right. Don't you want to ask me why James's death didn't protect Lily and Harry? There's your answer - you've just answered your own question - because she could have lived - and chose to die. James was going to be killed anyway. Do you see what I mean? I'm not saying James wasn't ready to; he died trying to protect his family, but he was going to be murdered anyway. He had no - he wasn't given a choice, so he rushed into it in a kind of animal way. I think there are distinctions in courage. James was immensely brave. But the caliber of Lily's bravery was, I think in this instance, higher because she could have saved herself. Now any mother, any normal mother would have done what Lily did. So in that sense, her courage too was of an animal quality but she was given time to choose. James wasn't. It's like an intruder entering your house, isn't it? You would instinctively rush them. But if in cold blood you were told, "Get out of the way," you know, what would you do? I mean, I don't think any mother would stand aside from their child. But does that answer it? She did very consciously lay down her life. She had a clear choice. -

ES: And James didn't.

JKR: Did he clearly die to try and protect Harry specifically given a clear choice? No. It's a subtle distinction and there's slightly more to it than that but that's most of the answer.
So I guess what I'm saying is, Dumbledore wasn't really offered a chance to live by anybody. Draco was going to kill him, and even if he didn't/wasn't able to do it, the Unbreakable Vow ensured that Snape did it for him.

Now he must have known about and accepted that fact because he immobilized Harry as if he knew that he didn't want him to take part or have anything to do that would interfere with what was to happen in that tower that night.

That to me is pretty suspicious. How could he have known what would happen?

Is it really that he has decided that his death is inevitable, and has really died? Or is it that he is not really dead yet, and this is all one brilliant set up, to-- as you said-- regain his strength, force Harry to fend for himself, or strengthen Snape's bonds with the Dark Lord, for him to be a better spy?

I personally am leaning towards the first option. He may be really dead. But he is, in no way, gone. There's a difference, in my opinion. And I think that's why he said, "I shall have only left Hogwarts when none here are loyal to me."


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  #52  
Old June 10th, 2006, 9:31 am
ca_ravenclaw ca_ravenclaw is offline
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

Quote:
1) By sacrificing himself on the tower after immobilizing Harry under the invisibility cloak, Dumbledore effectively gave Harry the same sort of protection that Lily gave him when she was killed. (And maybe now Harry will have to return to Hogwartís at least once a year), or

2) Dumbledore had a solution to Snape's use of those words against him. Maybe a counter curse, or maybe something we readers arenít yet aware of (or that seemed so insignificant when we read it that we failed to notice it). I just canít let go of the fact that Dumbledore told Draco, only moments before his own supposed death, that he could protect Draco from Voldemort if he wished to join the good guys, because Voldemort couldnít kill him if he was already dead. Dumbledore couldnít have been suggesting Draco should really die, so he obviously was aware of some magical means of making someone appear dead even when they are not dead. Dumbledore was weak (from age, from whatever happened when he procured the ring and messed up his hand, from the potion he drank to get the locket) and perhaps he needed to appear dead to give himself time to regain his strength, or maybe he needed to appear dead to get Snape in closer to Voldemort so he could be a better spy for the Order, or maybe he needed to appear dead to make Harry more self-reliant and stronger for what lies ahead of him.
As to #1, I was thinking the same thing!
As to #2, interesting theory. We don't know how Dumbledore planned to do it, but he had to have a way. Good deductions!

I do think Snape is talented enough to come up with a countercurse, and as he was still teaching Harry at the end of the book, I could see him using it to help Harry. Could he have already started on this as a child? In his memories we see him shooting down flies with his wand, could he have started to discover a way around the curse then? He was talented at creating new spells and obviously at potions. He always had an interest in the Dark Arts. We know he had a countercurse to Sectumsepra worked out. It would make sense for him to want to perfect his spells and counter curses for them. I wonder if there is anything in the Snape's old potion book that could point Harry (or perhaps Hermione) in the right direction.


  #53  
Old June 11th, 2006, 4:17 pm
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Re: Avada Kadavra- A Counter Curse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixFalling
Maybe the horcruxes?

We've seen the killing curse used on Cedric and Dumbledore. Cedric didn't stand a chance, but I think that if anyone could figure out how to deflect the killing curse, it would have been Dumbledore. If Voldemort had found a way to block the Avada Kedarva curse, he wouldn't have to create the horcruxes.
I'm convinced that Dumbledore can't block the curse, because of his duel with Voldemort in the ministry of magic. When Avada Kedavra is shot at Dumbledore, instead of trying to block it he avoids it, by apparating or dodging or having something else take the spell (Fawkes and the statue). It seems to me that the only way to deal with the curse would be to conjure a physical object in front of the spell to block it, the same way Voldemort conjured a shield to protect himself from one of Dumbledore's spells. That or perhaps a bird, since the "Avis" spell is incredibly fast to say and the curse would kill the conjured birds instead of the person it was aimed at.


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  #54  
Old June 24th, 2006, 4:24 pm
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

If the avada kedavra curse kills someone because of extreme hate, wouldn't it be possible to block the spell with one created out of pure love? Lily saved Harry because of her love for him and Dumbledore tells Harry that he survived because of the protection her love gave him, but wouldn't it be possible to create a spell of pure love? It would be impossible to block a killing curse because it would be pretty difficult to feel love for someone who is about to kill you, but if the power of love lives in Harry because of his mother's sacrifice, shouldn't he be able to harness it somehow?
Voldemort could not possess Harry because of Harry's ability to love. It caused Voldemort an immense amount of pain. Wouldn't that type of spell be Voldemort's undoing? We also know that extreme emotion can render a wizard powerless, so that spell could also sap Voldemort of his powers.


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  #55  
Old June 25th, 2006, 7:48 pm
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Re: Will Anyone Learn to Block the Killing Curse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chemguy77
Okay, I searched the Forum and couldn't find a threat on this already, if this is already being discussed, I apologize.

I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on whether Harry or perhaps Snape will come up with a way to block the killing curse. While it says throughout the books that there is no way to block the AK curse, this doesn't entirely appear to be true. Harry's mother Lilly obviously blocked the curse which rebounded on LV and it can also be blocked by physical objects (OoTP) as well as a Pheonix(OoTP). It seems to me that there could be way to block it, its just that no one has found a way to do it yet. It has always bothered me that of all the spells that exist the one that kills cannot be blocked or anything. I suppose it is necessary or it wouldn't be quite so scary of a possibility. However I thought that if a block was found by Harry using love (as Lilly did) that it would be part of a nice cap on the end of the book. Thoughts??????
I think that love, in this case, plays probably the biggest factor. Love from what Dumbledore made it seem like was the most powerful magic there is and maybe JKR made it symbolize that love triumphs over death? Although, im just guessing.


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  #56  
Old July 25th, 2006, 3:23 am
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

first i no that im really late on this post but i have been wondering the same thing for a while now. Another clue that the counter curse exists is dumbledore's dead hand (which was dead shortly after his fight with Voldy lol) it could of died during the making of the counter curse. now i no what your thinking that his arm died in search for a horcuxes but he never really said that he just said then he was not as fast as he use to be

1


  #57  
Old July 25th, 2006, 3:43 am
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

I believe it is definitely possible, given the time, knowledge, and wisdom, for a counter-curse to be made. I think so because of the fact that we know snape merely invented many jinxes and spells. I guess every spell jinx incantation and thing that can be done with a wand has been invented by someone. It isn't like there was an old book of stupify does this, accio does this. I think if Harry had the resources and power then he could make a countercurse.

Just like was said,the problem would be testing it, unless harry ordered kreacher to try to the countercurse. That would be good for one test run


  #58  
Old July 25th, 2006, 5:17 am
TheMagicMongol  Male.gif TheMagicMongol is offline
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

I don't think there is a counter curse for Avada Kedavra. It is a spell that is too powerful and too evil to be stopped by magical means. If there was a counter curse I think Dumbeldore would have used it at the ministry instead of enchanting statues (although that was cool).


  #59  
Old July 25th, 2006, 5:32 am
The_Trio_In_One  Male.gif The_Trio_In_One is offline
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Re: Avada Kadavra- A Counter Curse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentone
Intriguing theory... I must consider this, it is possible of course that there could be a counter curse...

Ok, thought about it, and there already is a counter curse so to speak and it is what Dumbledore has spoken about a lot. It is not really a spell so to speak though, it is the sacrafice lily made, in other words the power of love dumbledore is always going on about is the counter curse as lily showed us. I do not think one could focus that into a spell of some sort, it would instead have to be something inside the wizard that would cause the Avada Kedavra curse to rebound off of him if he was hit by it. Now good luck testing that... though it would seem essential for harry to find out how to do such a thing. I guess simply put, overwhelming love can cancel out the curse of death.
this is correct the only way that avada kedavra can be countered is by love.


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  #60  
Old July 25th, 2006, 11:02 pm
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Re: Avada Kadavra- A Counter Curse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMollywobbles
I agree with what you said about the risks involved in testing out a counter curse to avada kedavra, but on the other hand, since you have to "mean it" in order for it to be effective, a test probably wouldn't be too reliable unless you tested it in a battle situation trying to save your own life.

I also agree that Love is essentially the means of blocking avada kedavra, but you canít do it for yourself. It has to be a self-sacrificing love, so you couldnít really protect yourself with it.

I think Snape - if anyone - would be smart enough to come up with a counter curse (if it were even possible), but I can't see him & Harry working on it together...even before Book 6, but particularly after the tower scene.

Speaking of which, I am among those who believe there is more to Dumbledore's "death" than meets the eye. I believe one of two things is going on here:

1) By sacrificing himself on the tower after immobilizing Harry under the invisibility cloak, Dumbledore effectively gave Harry the same sort of protection that Lily gave him when she was killed. (And maybe now Harry will have to return to Hogwartís at least once a year), or

2) Dumbledore had a solution to Snape's use of those words against him. Maybe a counter curse, or maybe something we readers arenít yet aware of (or that seemed so insignificant when we read it that we failed to notice it). I just canít let go of the fact that Dumbledore told Draco, only moments before his own supposed death, that he could protect Draco from Voldemort if he wished to join the good guys, because Voldemort couldnít kill him if he was already dead. Dumbledore couldnít have been suggesting Draco should really die, so he obviously was aware of some magical means of making someone appear dead even when they are not dead. Dumbledore was weak (from age, from whatever happened when he procured the ring and messed up his hand, from the potion he drank to get the locket) and perhaps he needed to appear dead to give himself time to regain his strength, or maybe he needed to appear dead to get Snape in closer to Voldemort so he could be a better spy for the Order, or maybe he needed to appear dead to make Harry more self-reliant and stronger for what lies ahead of him.

I disagree with #1:

First Harry was under the cloack so none of the people in the Tower, save for Dumbledore and perhaps Snape, could know he was there, so Harry wasn't in any danger.

Second the Death was a fake: Dumbledore was using an Inferi all the while, so the Dumbledore Snape killed was some sort of diversion, thats the reason Snape didn't hesitate to kill him.


 
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