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All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 30th, 2006, 11:38 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabetha
I think the potion probubly was deadly because voldmort would still have been able to drink it without dying because of his horcruxes.
but if that were his reason would he or wouldn't he go back to his state in the first three books as a spirit?


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  #22  
Old July 1st, 2006, 10:04 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

I don't know about throwing the potion out of the goblet but what if Dumbledore just conjured like many goblet and draw the potion out in each one and then keep it aside until the basin is empty


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  #23  
Old July 1st, 2006, 10:20 am
brildenlanch  Male.gif brildenlanch is offline
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Re: Imagine the drink in the cave was deadly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam21011989
I dont know if this has been discussed already, I apologise in advance if it already has but ive done a few searches and ive not seen this thought posted before.

In the cave, in the pensive shaped bowl concealing the fake locket, there was the drink. Dumbledore actually told harry (in response to harry asking "what if it kills you?") "Im sorry, Harry; I should have said, he would not want immediately to kill the person who reached this island".

My theory is that this potion slowly killed its drinker. Dumbledore drank this potion, and was slowly then dying from that point onwards. He and Harry escaped the island, and Dumbledore demanded that he get Snape. At first I thought this was because of Snapes greatness at the dark arts, he could cure him. Then, it occurred to me; Dumbledore never intended Snape to help cure him. Dumbledore intended Snape to finish him off. If Dumbledore were to simply die from the potion, then Snape would die also, because he did not fulfil the terms of his unbreakable vow. I believe Dumbledore knew he was dying from the moment he drank the potion, and this explains why he needed Snape so badly, he was trying to save his life.

This also supports the idea that Snape is a "good person" and not one of the baddies. He did kill Dumbledore, but this sacrifice saved his and possibly Dracos life. Snape also appears to be offering Harry advice as he flees Hogwarts. As Harry casts spells on him, Snape simply deflects them all. He then shouts "Blocked again, and again, and again, untill you learn to keep your mind shut and your mouth closed Potter!" In my opinion, he was trying to give Harry advice, on how to fight Death Eaters from then on. He also shouts "No unforgivable curses from you, Potter!". This I believe is Snape again trying to help harry out. He knew that if Harry were caught by the ministry casting these spells, he could be arrested and placed in Askaban, with no Dumbledore to now help him.

Finally, The idea that the potion was slowly already killing Dumbledore. Was this how R.A.B (Who I believe to be Sirius brother, along with everybody else) actually died? It was said that he was not important enough for Voldemort to kill him himself. And it was said that he also died within a few days of being found out to be a traitor. Maybe he wasnt killed by a person, but he was finished off by the potion he drank?

These are my theorys on the matter, wrong as they may be. Feel free to shoot me down at any point Thankyou for your time reading my ideas.

Adam21011989
I agree with pretty much everything you said. It's pretty awesome really, I've never thought about the situation being as you described. I disagree with you about the "No unforgivable curses" comment from Snape. I think it has more to do with the fact that Snape (as well as Dumbledore, I'm sure) know Harry isn't a bad person. Like Fake-Moody said, the whole class could have pointed there wands, said Ava Kedavra, and he doubted he would have even gotten so much as a nose-bleed. No, Snape wasn't worried about Azkhaban. I highly doubt the ministry would throw Harry-freaking-Potter in jail for causing a little pain to a Death Eater. Snape was telling Harry what everyone already knows, he doesn't have the stones to really mean an Unforgiveable Curse. It would just be a waste of time, precious seconds that could get him killed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugglewizard
I don't know about throwing the potion out of the goblet but what if Dumbledore just conjured like many goblet and draw the potion out in each one and then keep it aside until the basin is empty
This is Voldemort we're talking about here. Well, we're talking about Dumbledore too, but anyways. Remember when Harry tried "Accio Horcrux" in the cave? The obstacles weren't set up by a third year.



Last edited by brildenlanch; July 1st, 2006 at 10:26 am.
  #24  
Old July 15th, 2006, 5:23 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

nice ideas and i also think snape was givin advice to harry the way to kill voldemort is not the unforgivables maybe sectumsempra for the viel in deparment of msteries.


  #25  
Old July 15th, 2006, 5:50 pm
Heleentje  Female.gif Heleentje is offline
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

I don't know if anyone brought this up before, but something's troubling me. Why was the potion in the basin in the first place?

The locket was fake, so the real locket has been removed. This we know. To remove the real locket, R.A.B. (or an accomplice) must have drunk the potion, since I'm pretty sure it can't be removed in any other way. So someone drunk the potion, took the locket and replaced it.

But how come there still is potion in the basin? Someone drunk it to remove the original locket. It shouldn't be there anymore. I somehow doubt they had a bottle with new potion with them, to pour it in the basin before they left.

I can't really think of any logical explanation, so does anyone have an idea?

Again, if this has been brought up already, I'm sorry.


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  #26  
Old July 15th, 2006, 5:55 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

I think that R.A.B. removed the locket by hand since he was a Death Eater... remember that Harry and Dumbledore couldn't touch the potion since they weren't Death Eaters.


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  #27  
Old July 16th, 2006, 1:49 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

I wonder if Snape was boasting when he said "No Unforgivables from you" to Harry -- because Snape might have such a torn soul and Occlumency-compartmentalised mind, his role might be as the Order's 'hit man' (finishing off Dumbledore on orders, and maybe deputed to AK Voldemort) -- so it would be a kind of "You just love whether you like it or not, but I CAN KILL and be good". Maybe Snape did have a hand in making that potion, and maybe it has something to do with 'worst memories' -- maybe it's an essence-of-Snape-as-DE, or maybe it 'floods' the drinker with their own worst memories, like a liquid Dementor-plus-Boggart concentrate. Because the basin does look rather like a Pensieve that can be drunk from. And being flooded with Snape's or one's own worst memories in concentrate form would be a fate worse than death or send the drinker mad, eat them away from the inside, literally corrode them to death (compare the way the older wizards talk about the danger of lasting scars from brain attacks, at the end of _OOTP_).


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  #28  
Old July 16th, 2006, 2:08 am
Scantra  Female.gif Scantra is offline
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

"I dont know if this has been discussed already, I apologise in advance if it already has but ive done a few searches and ive not seen this thought posted before.

In the cave, in the pensive shaped bowl concealing the fake locket, there was the drink. Dumbledore actually told harry (in response to harry asking "what if it kills you?") "Im sorry, Harry; I should have said, he would not want immediately to kill the person who reached this island".

My theory is that this potion slowly killed its drinker. Dumbledore drank this potion, and was slowly then dying from that point onwards. He and Harry escaped the island, and Dumbledore demanded that he get Snape. At first I thought this was because of Snapes greatness at the dark arts, he could cure him. Then, it occurred to me; Dumbledore never intended Snape to help cure him. Dumbledore intended Snape to finish him off. If Dumbledore were to simply die from the potion, then Snape would die also, because he did not fulfil the terms of his unbreakable vow. I believe Dumbledore knew he was dying from the moment he drank the potion, and this explains why he needed Snape so badly, he was trying to save his life.

This also supports the idea that Snape is a "good person" and not one of the baddies. He did kill Dumbledore, but this sacrifice saved his and possibly Dracos life. Snape also appears to be offering Harry advice as he flees Hogwarts. As Harry casts spells on him, Snape simply deflects them all. He then shouts "Blocked again, and again, and again, untill you learn to keep your mind shut and your mouth closed Potter!" In my opinion, he was trying to give Harry advice, on how to fight Death Eaters from then on. He also shouts "No unforgivable curses from you, Potter!". This I believe is Snape again trying to help harry out. He knew that if Harry were caught by the ministry casting these spells, he could be arrested and placed in Askaban, with no Dumbledore to now help him.

Finally, The idea that the potion was slowly already killing Dumbledore. Was this how R.A.B (Who I believe to be Sirius brother, along with everybody else) actually died? It was said that he was not important enough for Voldemort to kill him himself. And it was said that he also died within a few days of being found out to be a traitor. Maybe he wasnt killed by a person, but he was finished off by the potion he drank?

These are my theorys on the matter, wrong as they may be. Feel free to shoot me down at any point Thankyou for your time reading my ideas.

Adam21011989"

thats exactly what I was thinking. Good theory.

you know something strange I've noticed is that when Snape is about to kill DD it says that "There was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.", which is kind of strange because those are almost exactly the some words used to describe how Harry feels about what he is doing to DD when he is feeding him the potion in the cave chapter. " Hating himself , repulsed by what he was doing , Harry forced the goblet back to Dumbledore's mouth and tipped it,"


  #29  
Old July 16th, 2006, 2:21 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawkesfan1
I think that R.A.B. removed the locket by hand since he was a Death Eater... remember that Harry and Dumbledore couldn't touch the potion since they weren't Death Eaters.
So you had to be a Death Eater to be able to touch the potion? That seems kind of unresonable. Voldy didn't trust anyone, so why would he make it possible for a Death Eater to get his Horcrux?

Unless, it was a precaution to being killed, so a Death Eater may have to revive the Horcrux to save him when the bit of soul inside him was killed off.

That could also explain why Voldemort would want to kill the drinker - upont reviving the Horcrux for him, the faithful Death Eater would be dead. He always seems to thank peple in the stranges ways.

I think Dumbledore dying from the potion is a likely theory, considering that an Avada Kedavra couldn't have finished off the greatest wizard of all times. He wasn't afraid of death, and died for a noble cause.

The downside is the fact that the locket wasn't real. *sigh*


  #30  
Old July 16th, 2006, 3:04 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scantra

you know something strange I've noticed is that when Snape is about to kill DD it says that "There was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.", which is kind of strange because those are almost exactly the some words used to describe how Harry feels about what he is doing to DD when he is feeding him the potion in the cave chapter. " Hating himself , repulsed by what he was doing , Harry forced the goblet back to Dumbledore's mouth and tipped it,"
Yeah, Harry and Snape parrelled there, anyone know any other parelells between the 2???


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  #31  
Old July 16th, 2006, 4:23 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryzen
Yeah, Harry and Snape parrelled there, anyone know any other parelells between the 2???
There are some, actually.

- Difficult chilhood
- Similar way of thinking - this is demonstrated by the potions book, Harry could relate to Snape's notes
- Being a misfit - although this happens only on several occasions for Harry
- Many of the Slytherin qualities


  #32  
Old July 17th, 2006, 3:11 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Here's the thing. I believe that Dumbledore knew all along that Snape would have to kill him at SOME point during the year, hence telling Harry to keep his cloak at hand at all times. They just had to wait for the right time to perform the 'operation'. I think Trelawney helped him find out that the tower was going to be where he died. Trelawney says that Dumbledore wasn't listening to her about the cards, but that doesn't sound like Dumbledore, does it?

When Dumbledore drank the potion he knew he was going to die eventually so he knew he had to make it back to the tower, no matter what, so that Snape could kill him there as the cards prophecised. He DIDN'T know that there would be DEs in the castle, or that Draco would appear at the tower. This complicated matters, but in the end it was irrelevant, Snape got there in time to perform the murder.


  #33  
Old July 17th, 2006, 6:00 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

ok i have some questions.. :\

dumbledore knew that the only way to get to the locket is by drinking it ... so he drunk it.. and it DIDNT FILL UP AGAIN... right?and apparently RAB took the real locket.. and put the fake one in its place..


my question is..:
1 . did rab then fill up the basin with the liquid again..???
2.and if yes.. then was it the same one the voldi put there.. ?
3. and if yes again. then how did rab know what it was and dumbledore not know..? (cause dumbledore tried other things before he decided it was to be drunk..)
4. and if it was some other liquid then was it poison for voldi..? cause he did say that he hoped that when he found this that voldi would be a mortal.. and thus whatever was in the basin would kill him right there..?
soo mayyybeee what dumbledore drank wasnt voldis magic but rab's!!!!!
or do u guys think that the basin filled up again with voldis liquid..


  #34  
Old July 17th, 2006, 8:04 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

I think that it was RAB's potion but I don't think Voldy would drink the potion even if it was his, I think he would probably make some muggle drink it or something.


  #35  
Old July 17th, 2006, 10:38 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

The potion in the basin is definitely quite mysterious. I the idea that it slowly kills the drinker is a distinct possibility, considering how weakened Dumbledore was after drinking it. But what really intrigues me is what it actually did to him as he had more and more to drink. In the previous thread, someone came up with the idea that the potion was like "dementor juice", forcing a person to relive their worst experiences. I also think it could have made the person "relive" bad experiences that never really happened to them, but under the influence of the drink they are made to believe they did horrible things (hence Dumbledore's words during that scene). So in the end two strong possibilities I see for the effects of the potion while it's being drunk is (a) forces a person to relive their worst experiences, like a dementor does; or (b) creates false memories/deeds that cause a person to believe they did something horrible in the past that didn't really happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heleentje
But how come there still is potion in the basin? Someone drunk it to remove the original locket. It shouldn't be there anymore.
I'd wager the basin refills iteself once the potion has been completely drunk. Harry might not have noticed whether the basin refilled because he was too busy with defending against the Inferi (I'll have to check that part out again though).


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  #36  
Old July 17th, 2006, 10:48 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

I agree that the potion may make someone think they did some terible but they really did not do but on the other hand does anyone think that the potion may make someone think they are someone else? Could Dumbledore have been thinking he was someone else while he was begging?


  #37  
Old July 17th, 2006, 10:57 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

[/quote] I agree that the potion may make someone think they did some terible but they really did not do but on the other hand does anyone think that the potion may make someone think they are someone else? Could Dumbledore have been thinking he was someone else while he was begging?
[quote]

I always wondered if while Dumbledore was drinking the potion if he was either having delusions or if he was reliving something real. I thought of that conversation Dumbledore had with Harry when he was telling him about all of the people sacrificed on the way for Harry's sake, at the end of OoTP. Even for a noble person like Dumbledore, who thought he was doing the right thing by defending Harry, must have experienced some grief regarding the lost and damaged lives.


  #38  
Old July 17th, 2006, 11:07 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryzen
Yeah, Harry and Snape parrelled there, anyone know any other parelells between the 2???
Earlier on in HBP, Hermione told Harry that both him and Snape thought that Defense Against the Dark Arts involved bravery and quick thinking... - not exact wording

Both him and Snape had a similar arguement with Dumbledore...


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  #39  
Old July 18th, 2006, 2:03 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Quote:
Earlier on in HBP, Hermione told Harry that both him and Snape thought that Defense Against the Dark Arts involved bravery and quick thinking... - not exact wording

Both him and Snape had a similar arguement with Dumbledore...
oh yes I just remembered that now. I think Harry is more like Snape then he realizes


  #40  
Old July 18th, 2006, 4:07 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

RAB got past the potion and since he put the note inside the fake locket he expected voldemort to get past it too.
If the potion slowly kills you then the kreacher was with regulus theories are false,since kreacher would be dead.

I know dumbledore couldn't get passed it,but the dark arts aren't his area of expertise,maybe there's another potion you could take that would work like a vaccine,so that you could drink the cave potion without suffering from the effects.

Finally,it seems the potion can kill instantly,afterall,dumbledore says "kill me",what would happen if someone were alone ? Would he kill himself?


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