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A Fate Worse than Death



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 2nd, 2006, 8:53 am
zoeisalegend  Female.gif zoeisalegend is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

There are stacks of things Id like to see done to Voldymo.
thrown off a cliff, tied to a train track, poisoned by acromantula, stampeded by centaurs and unicorns, munched on by thestrals and blast-ended skrewts to name a few.
But as Dumbledore says frequently, Voldemort seems to believe that there is nothing worse than death. I think the best punishment for him would be to show him the things that are worse than death. (snogging a dementor would be nice...) But I think, someone that powerful and evil needs to be killed and killed very well then buried under weeds next to a sewage plant (im not normally this malicious, i swear, this is a special case)

whoever(ive forgotten since i read it and am too lazy to search for and quote it) said the dementors may not be able to kiss voldemort because of his split-soul, i like your theory. the dementors would have to destroy or kiss the horcuxes to kiss voldemort with any affect...would a kiss have any effect on voldemort at all while his soul was still split?


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  #22  
Old July 2nd, 2006, 6:20 pm
godric360  Male.gif godric360 is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

I think maybe having to face the ghost of his father would be troubling for him...


  #23  
Old July 2nd, 2006, 6:27 pm
marianna58  Female.gif marianna58 is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

I think I really like that idea, the idea of losing his powers. Even when he was young, Tom Riddle "knew" he was different, or special, or 'better' than the average child. He knew this because of his powers. He was strong in magic and he could feel it from a young age. So, he's had this feeling of unique superiority all his life. If he loses his powers, with no possible way to redeem them.....this could be horror, torture to Voldemort. He'll be your everyday Muggle, something he loathes. Ooooh. Good call.


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  #24  
Old July 2nd, 2006, 7:40 pm
alex2moony  Female.gif alex2moony is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marianna58
I think I really like that idea, the idea of losing his powers. Even when he was young, Tom Riddle "knew" he was different, or special, or 'better' than the average child. He knew this because of his powers. He was strong in magic and he could feel it from a young age. So, he's had this feeling of unique superiority all his life. If he loses his powers, with no possible way to redeem them.....this could be horror, torture to Voldemort. He'll be your everyday Muggle, something he loathes. Ooooh. Good call.
Very nicely said! When you put this way, I can easily imagine this to be the worst punishment for Voldemort, from his point of view...but I have to wonder if the series can end just like that - with your everyday muggle Voldemort living the rest of his mortal days as any other human - it's just not enought closure from where I stand...


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  #25  
Old July 2nd, 2006, 7:51 pm
ADnotdead777  Male.gif ADnotdead777 is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

I'd like to see Voldemort become a muggle and then be forced to get a desk job. He would have to live with being wat he dearly hated.


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  #26  
Old July 2nd, 2006, 8:05 pm
GodricsHeir7  Undisclosed.gif GodricsHeir7 is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Death is the worst thing for Lord Voledemort. JK says this is what his bogart would be. Voldemort could deal with losing his powers, as he did, as long as a part of his soul survived and he did not die.

If i remember, Dumbledore says to Voldemort than some things are worse than death, while fighting in OOTP....

Dumbledore means that Voldemort doesn't realize that there are things much worse than death, like becoming the evil and totally demented sub human that Voldemort is.


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  #27  
Old July 2nd, 2006, 8:05 pm
LadyKnight LadyKnight is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LikeLuna
I have a theory on this subject (although I think I got it from an editorial, so it's not really mine).

I would love to see Voldemort get the Dementor's Kiss before the Horcruxes are destroyed, so he will be immortal, but have no soul. Crucio'd into insanity and keeping immortality wouldn't be bad, either.

I love this theory. Infact, this is the one I'm using in my fanfic, actully.

Only one problem though...while i don't agree with the idea of a Dementors kiss having no effect because of a split soul...I am somewhat concerned with the idea of BECAUSE of a Horcrux still existing he could come back again...so this may not be enough closure...but that dosen't stop me from enjoying the idea of Voldermort spending the rest of eternety as a shell...alive, but not. Immortal, as he always wanted, but without existing. The one who fears death above all else living a the fate we know is, indeed, worse then death...


  #28  
Old July 2nd, 2006, 9:43 pm
loordvoldemort loordvoldemort is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

If Voldemort become Muggle [ like you all....Mudblood] then that will be worse than death for him.


  #29  
Old July 3rd, 2006, 8:35 pm
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Re: Worse than death?

I can think of many fate's worst than death for Voldemort. being held captive with the care bears! yeah for Voldemort that would be worst than death. But what I think Dumbledore meant ( I think he's the one who said there are many things worst than death.) Is that life without love is a fate worst than death to it seems any other living being other than Voldemort. Harry's year with the Dursleys was proof of that, but Harry was able to withstand it because he is a good person with a strong character.


  #30  
Old July 3rd, 2006, 10:50 pm
duby duby is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

being a ghost of Gryffindor house. dead, but not, with no powers. worst of both worlds (no pun intended). then have him in the house most against everything he stands for, with little children laughing at his powerless ghost and he could do nothing about it.


  #31  
Old July 4th, 2006, 1:55 am
latres33 latres33 is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Part of me thinks that yes one of these things will happen to him because of the way Dumbledore reiterates so many times that things are worse than death. But, the way the prophecy is worded, I don't see how it could result in anything but a death. But then again, I can't see Harry using the killing curse.


  #32  
Old July 4th, 2006, 2:28 am
Belden Belden is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

I would love to see Voldermort get the Dementors kiss!!!

My theory is, Harry searches and destroys all the Horcrux's then, after he destroys the last Horcrux, Voldermort finds Harry and they do battle, mean while here comes Dumbledore with a Dementor and he says, "Tom you are at a loss Harry has destroyed all your Horcruxes and our new friend the Dementor is here to take the last bit of your fractured soul." That would be wicked!! The look on Voldermort's face when he realizes that all the preparations he has made to extend his feeble imitation of life are down the tubes will be worth a thousand words!!!

with respect,
Belden


  #33  
Old July 5th, 2006, 2:12 am
godric360  Male.gif godric360 is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
I would love to see Voldermort get the Dementors kiss!!!

My theory is, Harry searches and destroys all the Horcrux's then, after he destroys the last Horcrux, Voldermort finds Harry and they do battle, mean while here comes Dumbledore with a Dementor and he says, "Tom you are at a loss Harry has destroyed all your Horcruxes and our new friend the Dementor is here to take the last bit of your fractured soul." That would be wicked!! The look on Voldermort's face when he realizes that all the preparations he has made to extend his feeble imitation of life are down the tubes will be worth a thousand words!!!

with respect,
Belden
Problem with that theory Dumbledore is dead...


  #34  
Old July 5th, 2006, 2:46 am
Aphasia  Female.gif Aphasia is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Stipping him of his power and prestige. I think humiliation would go a long way towards knocking Voldemort off of his pedestal. Also, having people not fear him.. to say his name openly without any hesitation. To an egomaniac, those are things that are far worse than just death. Not mattering in anyway to people would just be devastating.


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  #35  
Old July 5th, 2006, 10:07 am
XanderTheMighty  Male.gif XanderTheMighty is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

I like the becoming a ghost theory... I thought of it myself but one person has mentioned it before me and I'm sure others have in various threads, so I don't take credit for it. As a ghost, Voldemort wouldn't have any powers and would have experienced death and would know that it wasn't as bad as he thought as he would then have to libe forever in an incorporeal state, not able to affect anything and powerless. However, I'm sure he could irk people if he wanted and still being able to speak Parsle Tongue would be an issue so perhaps there is some way to lock a ghost up so it can't bother anyone.

Also, I had this chilling idea... perhaps what's "worse than death" to Voldemort is finding happiness and having it stripped away. The Dementers are on the Dark side so why would they turn on Voldemort unless he was happy... or at least showed a burst of happiness... for instance killing Harry... or perhaps thinking he killed Harry (As I don't fully agree that Harry will die). Anyhow, Voldie "kills" Harry and shouts in triumph and it's the first time he's ever felt true happiness, but a Dementer that is close by feels this happiness and imediately and without warning floats over and clamps his jaws around Voldie forcing him to live out eternity as a vegitable, like so many of you have suggested (I like that theory... it would make his quest for immortality blow up in his face).


  #36  
Old July 6th, 2006, 12:12 am
SergeySorokin  Male.gif SergeySorokin is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue3ski
You might be interested in this thread: What is worse than death?
In this thread many people suggest that worse than death is immortality, life without love and loosing a loved one (or better yet all those things combined). While this is true for a normal human, I do not see this as a "proper punishment" for Voldemort. In fact, it is what he desires most and how he chooses to live. And I do not think that anything may make him understand he is wrong. So, if we are looking for something to apply to Voldemort in the end of book 7 I do not think we should choose this route.

If he is stripped of powers and became muggle... Well, this will still be very dangerous muggle. First of all, he is very patient. He used to wait 15 years as nothing, than wait one more year for exact blood he wanted, than wait one more year without doing anything... If he is stripped of powers he will wait untill he will found some way to return them. And even without powers he will be able to speak and this will allow him to do dangerous things. He is no longer that young handsome Tom Riddle who can charm any teacher at school, so he won't be able to charm muggles to elect him a prime minister... But wizards interested in dark arts may go to him on purpose, and he can give them some very, very bad advises.

The same applies if he became ghost. He seems to be the type of person to became a ghost, but we know to little about it to guess correctly. He will definetly be scared to die, like Nick tells us about his fate... But can he became a ghost anyway? Ghost is an imprint of soul, and his soul is almost destroyed. He was very close to ghost form after he attacked Harry for the first time, and he describes his state as "less than a ghost".

So, if he will remain in some consciousness form (muggle or ghost), he is better to be kept at prison, and I do not want this form to be immortal (he will achive one of his main goals anyway, and there will always be a chance to escape some 1000 years ahead).

If he is driven mad, that won't be a large problem for him (since he wouldn't be able to understand that), and there will be chance again that he will be able to return... The state of Longbottoms is really worse than dead for their son, but who will care about Voldemort?

It will be very hard for Voldemort to know that all his horcruxes are destoyed, but alone it is not enough. If he will remains alive he can try to made more horcruxes (well, he is crazy), or he can try to find other ways to immortality (made another sorecer's stone for instance). It would be even more hard for him to understand that he will die soon, and I think that really worst thing that can happen to him is to be subjected for this feeling every minute, every day and for infinity... But this seems too much look like some myth from ancient Greece, and requies some setup like underground world and a pair of underground gods to control the situation. Do not look like potterverse much (althought we allready have 3-headed dog used to guard the place ).

Dementor kiss (or some other way to destroy a soul) really looks like a best solution to me. He will be harmless, at least. And I think that this is probably the only way to prevent him from reaching immortality. Well, we do not know much about afterlife in potterverse. We do not know if there is hell and heaven (I suppose those are correct english terms for places where bad and good soul are supposed to end up in christianity), or just one "afterlife" location... But it do not look like we have hell/heaven situation, all we know is that "Death is a next adventure" from Dumbledore and voices of souls of dead people below veil misteriously explained by Luna, so we can suppose that there is some sort of infinite(?) afterlife in potterverse. There is also a discussion about deep connection of Harry Potter books with alchemy, where the real target of seeker (Harry) is to became eternal, perfect child of God and achive real immortality this way. I also suppose that Dementor indeed destroys soul thus completely preventing one from entering eternal afterlife. So, this seems to be a very reasonable ending for Voldemort - completely fail to achive his desire because he have selected a wrong way trying to achieve eternal life on earth, while one should better think of eternal soul.

And it is not important what will happen with current Voldemort body. You see, one of his bodies is already dead, and the current one will die too - horcruxes do not protect bodies (soul only!), even if some of them will remain intact body will die sooner or later. But it will be completely harmless without soul, so I do not care for it. However it seems like if even one horcrux remains it may mean that Voldemort can be resored, like from Diary (with heavy help from other evil wizard perhaps, but still possible). So, it is better to destroy all horcuxes anyway (and we do not know if they protect from Dementor Kiss or not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by latres33
But, the way the prophecy is worded, I don't see how it could result in anything but a death. But then again, I can't see Harry using the killing curse.
And so do I. I do not want to see Harry effectivly performing any unforgivable curse, or killing a peson by other means. And I do not think he can/will do it, this book is not about how small boy can kill strongest wizard of the time with unforgivable curse, it is clear to see that morale of the book is completely opposite. Even about dementor kiss we have that quote from PoA: “You think so?” said Lupin lightly. “Do you really think anyone deserves that?”. But it makes "vanquishing" of Voldemort tricky a bit.

There are ways to overcame this problem. For example Harry can render Voldemort to some "harmless" state (stripped from powers, immobilized, etc.) and than Ministry can sort out things using their legal procedures.

Or it can be Voldemort who will initiate his destruction, like it happens at Hodric's Hollow, but without horcruxes he won't stay alive. This will not only save Harry's soul intact, but will show better that it is Voldemort choises that are wrong at essentials, and not that he was just not fast enough/lucky in duel. Btw, I do not think it will work exactly the same way, unsing sacrifice of someone for Harry/Harry for someone. Voldemort is not that stupid not to notice it agian, and neither is Rowling to use the same idea again and again. I suppose than Voldemort will underestimate some other aspect of "ancient magic" and cause his own destruction.

And than we have a locked room in MoM, probably full of love (how it looks like, I wonder?), which can "burn" Voldemort like Harry burn Quirell in first book. A lot was discussed about how books are "mirrored", and the last should be a mirror of first; and that last book is represented by Harry/Quirell "duel" in the line of 7 obstacles from the first book.

So, those are some ways to deal with Voldemort without Harry killing him directly which I was able to think of while I wrote that message, and I suppose one can invent more. We will wait and see how Rowling chooses to deal with this problem.

P.S. And we should not also forget, that evil is not to be eliminated completely in potterverse, so something evil should remains to keep the ballance... But I rather think that to be some next evil wizard, and not Voldemort in some "preserved" way. He allready have done enough, and it is time to leave for him.

WBR,
Sergey.


  #37  
Old July 6th, 2006, 1:06 am
starmom  Undisclosed.gif starmom is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

The editorial is Lady Lupins' in Spinners' End: where she describes that it is only light that can penetrate and destroy darkness and explores how the Patronus Charm can be used to vanquish Voldemort. It is an awesome piece, that I recommend to EVERYONE!!! It would be the most horrible to have that little bit of soul sucked out of Voldemort - leaving him a shell: much worse than death, much worse.


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  #38  
Old July 6th, 2006, 8:29 pm
godric360  Male.gif godric360 is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

I guess but why would a dementor want to suck out LV's soul I mean there is no good thoughts in him or happiness he is pure evil.


  #39  
Old July 7th, 2006, 2:08 am
Grim_Reapster  Male.gif Grim_Reapster is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Maybe Voldemort will develop a conscience, and be overcome with guilt and remorse for all his horrorific crimes. In the graveyard scene in GOF, he did seem pretty unnerved when confronted by the ghosts (or whatever) of his victims. If his guilt were stronger than his fear of death, he may even kill himself.


  #40  
Old July 7th, 2006, 3:02 am
kairo14  Male.gif kairo14 is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by godric360
I guess but why would a dementor want to suck out LV's soul I mean there is no good thoughts in him or happiness he is pure evil.
LOL thats made me laugh!


But really Dumbledore spent much care in showing Harry how much Tom riddle loved the Idea that he was quote "special" as Tom himself put it as a little boy. If Tom wasn’t special any more it would be horrific to him.


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Last edited by kairo14; July 7th, 2006 at 3:44 am.
 
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